9 yr old arrested for waving toy gun

[appleseed]

full story here (http://www.zwire.com/site/10419957.html)


LORAIN -- A 9-year-old boy was arrested at gunpoint and handcuffed Saturday because he was waving a toy gun over his head while seated on a bench outside a store, according to a Lorain police report.

His mother, Tamyka Saunders of Sheffield Lake, said her son, Thomas Clark Jr., told Lorain police when they approached him outside a Broadway business that the gun was a toy. An officer aimed his weapon at the boy's head, ordered him to the ground, handcuffed him and arrested him for juvenile delinquency by reason of inducing panic, according to the police report.

Saunders, 28, was also charged with obstruction of justice and resisting arrest when she pleaded with police not to arrest her son and to give him a warning, according to a police report.i'm on the fence on this one...kinda see both sides :shrug: any opinions?

[Memo]

A passer-by who saw the boy playing just before noon with a gun -- described by police as a black plastic toy gun -- called police, who responded to the scene and found the boy ''waving what appeared to be a black handgun above his head,'' according to a police report. The report said the gun was spray painted black and resembled a genuine gun.

I at first thought it was ludicrous (LUDA LUDA!!!) but then I read the above section. There is a reason why toy guns have bright orange barrel tips. It is so they appear like toy guns. If you're spraypainting your guns and going into public you're ASKING to get arrested. No matter what age. You REALLY REALLY can't tell the difference between some toy guns and a real gun when the barrel tip is not orange.

[RoniMan]

the whole orange gun thing is b/c back when nintendo first came out. some kid got shot when he surprised some police officer with the ray gun. "if you don't learn from history....you're doomed to..." well, you get the gist of it.

[welfareloser]

yeah, toy guns aren't cool... if it's not a neon green and orange water gun, you're asking for trouble. spray painting it black to look more real? i have NO sympathy.

the officer... better safe than sorry. it's unfortunately not that unlikely that an unattended nine-year-old in a parking lot has an actual gun.

i'm not sure that an actual arrest was necessary, i'm suspicious of that one, but i wasn't there... i would think that appropriate if the kid thought he was real funny scaring an officer and faking out passers-by... if he knew he was scaring people with a gun that looked real, arrest him and his mom.

if he was just minding his own bidness, and was totally caught off guard by the whole thing, confiscate the gun and give him and his mom a stern warning.

[Cubsfan]

Originally posted by welfareloser
yeah, toy guns aren't cool... if it's not a neon green and orange water gun, you're asking for trouble. spray painting it black to look more real? i have NO sympathy.

I wonder who did it. The kid or someone else? There should be some sort of fine for that.

[Merlin]

I didn't realize that toy guns were illeagal. And yes, arresting a 9 year old is absolutely ridiculous. Just goes to show that most police really about as bright as sheriff Roscoe.

[gear02]

Well any normal cop would have done the same since he was called to the scene, but after realizing it was a fake gun he should have let the boy go and give a good talking to to him and the parents, and maybe cited the parents.

But it looks like the cop was too embarrased to let him go afterwards since he was duped.

[friscokydd]

:confused:
If kids are spraypainting their toy guns black, to look like real guns, I wonder if people are painting the tips of their real guns orange, so they can bring it along with them. I'm not advocating such an evil act, but would cops or people passing by be alarmed by a gun with an orange tip? Just food for thought. (I know you all were thinking of the exact same thing, don't lie!)

[eSDee]

Originally posted by Merlin
I didn't realize that toy guns were illeagal. And yes, arresting a 9 year old is absolutely ridiculous. Just goes to show that most police really about as bright as sheriff Roscoe.

:stupid:

[zenbooty]

I think this a complete joke. The kid was 9, with his mother, who told the officer ahead of time that the thing was a toy. He showed himself to be a complete jerkoff for not believing her in this situation. And to pull his gun and put the kid in handcuffs, and then arrest the mother for obstruction to boot? He should be canned.

Tamyka Saunders, huh? Perhaps I'm stereotyping but that sounds like the name of a young black lady to me. I think I see exactly how this thing went down. Another cowardly racist cop taking thuggish advantage of the little bit of authority he's been given.

[Ladogaboy]

Which would you prefer: have the boy and mother arrested now and have them--hopefully--learn a lesson or have the boy shot on accident by an over-zealous cop?

:shrug:

[Merlin]

I would prefer kids to be allowed to play cops and robbers or cowboys and indians or whatever the hell else they play without police intervention. And what lesson was learned here? Don't play with your toys at friggin age nine?

[Cubsfan]

Originally posted by Merlin
I would prefer kids to be allowed to play cops and robbers or cowboys and indians or whatever the hell else they play without police intervention. And what lesson was learned here? Don't play with your toys at friggin age nine?
Maybe "Don't try to make toy guns look like real ones"?

[zenbooty]

Originally posted by Ladogaboy
Which would you prefer: have the boy and mother arrested now and have them--hopefully--learn a lesson or have the boy shot on accident by an over-zealous cop?:shrug: Fortunately neither choice is necessary, 'cause neither choice is remotely appropriate. I'd prefer the cop use his brains, and tell the lady the kid can't play with toy guns that aren't properly marked. If he wanted to teach them a lesson, he could have just confiscated the gun. That would have been lesson enough.

I think anyone with common sense can see who really was the over-zealous cop here :nono: :rolleyes:

[welfareloser]

i had the same thought as zenbooty, but i can't be SURE that's how it went down (though i think it's likely.)

again, the kid had a gun that had been deliberately spray-painted black to look real... and he may have been purposely trying to freak people out. how is that any different than him waving around an unloaded real gun? it's not okay, and the cop had to be careful. nine-year-olds do kill people with real guns. i don't think the cop's behavior was too far out if the kid was being a pain in the a$$ like that.

then again, maybe he's a good kid who happened to be minding his own business, maybe he found the gun or it was given to him and he had no idea that people thought it was real...

i just don't know.

[zenbooty]

Originally posted by welfareloser
again, the kid had a gun that had been deliberately spray-painted black to look real... and he may have been purposely trying to freak people out. how is that any different than him waving around an unloaded real gun? it's not okay, and the cop had to be careful. nine-year-olds do kill people with real guns. i don't think the cop's behavior was too far out if the kid was being a pain in the a$$ like that.

then again, maybe he's a good kid who happened to be minding his own business, maybe he found the gun or it was given to him and he had no idea that people thought it was real...

i just don't know. To me, the fact that the kid was with his mother, and the mother tried to explain to the cop beforehand is the real kicker that made the cops behavior inexcusable.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by welfareloser
again, the kid had a gun that had been deliberately spray-painted black to look real... and he may have been purposely trying to freak people out. how is that any different than him waving around an unloaded real gun? it's not okay, and the cop had to be careful. nine-year-olds do kill people with real guns. i don't think the cop's behavior was too far out if the kid was being a pain in the a$$ like that.

then again, maybe he's a good kid who happened to be minding his own business, maybe he found the gun or it was given to him and he had no idea that people thought it was real...

i just don't know.

:stupid:

Regardless of whether or not the child was taken in, the mother most certainly should be. First, for allowing her child to have a toy like that. The kid might not know any better, but she sure as hell should. Second, for disrespecting both an officer of the law and the authority he represents in front of her child.

And hell, the way things are going these days, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that this was just a gimmick to try to setup a lawsuit.

[cheapie]

Originally posted by zenbooty
To me, the fact that the kid was with his mother, and the mother tried to explain to the cop beforehand is the real kicker that made the cops behavior inexcusable.


i think you're reading more into the situation than the news describes. it doesn't not say the mother explained it beforehand. neither does it say that kid was with his mother.

in fact, after reading the article, the opposite is true.

the kid was on the bench outside the store waving the gun while his mother was getting her hair done inside. when she heard the commotion, she came out and got in an argument w/the officer.

i would certainly try to get more facts or read the article before accusing the officer of racism.

please don't take offense at my tone. i just think accusing someone of racism without exploring the situation is very dangerous.

[zenbooty]

Oh c'mon, disrespecting an officer!? The police report said she was pleading the officer not to arrest her 9 year old son. If that's considered disrespect warranting arrest, how far are we from a police state?

Any rational officer would have just given her a warning and maybe confiscated the gun. If you think she should be taken into custody then I guess every person who parks in a no parking zone should be locked up for the night as well :rolleyes: .

[avlena]

Originally posted by welfareloser
i had the same thought as zenbooty, but i can't be SURE that's how it went down (though i think it's likely.)

again, the kid had a gun that had been deliberately spray-painted black to look real... and he may have been purposely trying to freak people out. how is that any different than him waving around an unloaded real gun? it's not okay, and the cop had to be careful. nine-year-olds do kill people with real guns. i don't think the cop's behavior was too far out if the kid was being a pain in the a$$ like that.

then again, maybe he's a good kid who happened to be minding his own business, maybe he found the gun or it was given to him and he had no idea that people thought it was real...

i just don't know.

if the kid was making aggressive moves with the toy gun, waving it around, etc, i think a trip down to the police station might do some good. Don't think that he should've actually been booked, but maybe this whole mess will scare that kid into realizing that a gun isn't a toy, and he might think twice before brandishing a real one. With schoolkids going on murderous rampages, a kid playing with a gun, toy or not, should be taken very seriously.

i don't think the mother should have been arrested though, because other then a few smart-alec remarks to the cop, her actions weren't really threatening.

of course, as WL pointed out, we don't know the entire story...

[appleseed]

Originally posted by zenbooty
...I guess every person who parks in a no parking zone should be locked up for the night as well :rolleyes:...only if they park in my space...in which case they should be tasered repeatedly AND locked up ;)

[xsiled2]

Originally posted by friscokydd
:confused:
If kids are spraypainting their toy guns black, to look like real guns, I wonder if people are painting the tips of their real guns orange, so they can bring it along with them.

thats exactly what i was thinking...

[raimin]

Originally posted by zenbooty
Oh c'mon, disrespecting an officer!? The police report said she was pleading the officer not to arrest her 9 year old son. If that's considered disrespect warranting arrest, how far are we from a police state?

Any rational officer would have just given her a warning and maybe confiscated the gun. If you think she should be taken into custody then I guess every person who parks in a no parking zone should be locked up for the night as well :rolleyes: .


nope more like...the car should be towed, and if you complain about the car being towed, you should be arrested...:bigmouth: :disa: overzealous cop with no common sense

[cheapie]

Originally posted by zenbooty
Oh c'mon, disrespecting an officer!? The police report said she was pleading the officer not to arrest her 9 year old son. If that's considered disrespect warranting arrest, how far are we from a police state?

Any rational officer would have just given her a warning and maybe confiscated the gun. If you think she should be taken into custody then I guess every person who parks in a no parking zone should be locked up for the night as well :rolleyes: .



look. i'm just saying to examine it from both sides. the cops are called out to a scene where young man is seen pointing a gun a people. they arrive at the scene, can't tell it's a toy because he freakin' painted it to look like a real gun, and arrest him. then his mom comes out and tries to keep him from being taken to jail. have you ever seen the show COPS? i'm willing to bet it was something like that. and whether or not the cop wasn't right in doing so doesn't mean his incorrect behavior was because of racism. calling him
another cowardly racist cop is just irresponsible.

[zenbooty]

Originally posted by cheapie
look. i'm just saying to examine it from both sides. the cops are called out to a scene where young man is seen pointing a gun a people. A nine year old boy is not a young man! Let's look at things clearly. The article states the kid was waiving the gun in the air, not pointing it at anyone or threatening anyone. You'd think if there was a real issue here there would be some commotion before the cops arrived. But no mention is made of anything like that.


they arrive at the scene, can't tell it's a toy because he freakin' painted it to look like a real gun, and arrest him. he arrives at the scene, and sees a nine year old boy sitting on a bench, waiving a gun in the air. No other signs of a problem. The cop makes no effort to talk to any adult about it, doesn't ask anyone in the salon right there if anyone knows about the kid. Instead, his first reaction is to DRAW HIS GUN and begin an arrest procedure, handcuffing the kid.


then his mom comes out and tries to keep him from being taken to jail. have you ever seen the show COPS? i'm willing to bet it was something like that.Really bad example, dude. I've seen COPS, and let me tell you its practically a self-parody, the cops being some of the most obnoxious, officious, and confrontational jerks I've seen.


and whether or not the cop wasn't right in doing so doesn't mean his incorrect behavior was because of racism. calling him "another cowardly racist cop" is just irresponsible. I stand by it. If that kid and his mother were white, ther's no f'in way he's getting a gun pulled on him, slapped in cuffs, and taken in along with his mother for trying to explain the situation to him and defending her child.

[cheapie]

Originally posted by zenbooty
I stand by it. If that kid and his mother were white, ther's no f'in way he's getting a gun pulled on him, slapped in cuffs, and taken in along with his mother for trying to explain the situation to him and defending her child.



i'm gonna take a wild guess and say she was prob. going apeshit. i guess i know enough good cops personally to give them the benefit of the doubt. i guess neither one of us was there and so we can't say it's racism or not. you might be absolutely correct. but, calling someone racist is just too easy and is almost impossible to defend one's self against.

[chadlnc]

If I took the mother at her word, I would think the kid was an angel and she was Aunt Bea.

"He (Novosielski) snatched me by the arm and cuffed me. People were just walking down the street shaking their heads. I did not cuss at him, and I did not yell at him, because I'm not that type of person. I feel I'm the one that was disrespected," Saunders said of her arrest.

I can picture it now, she didn't flip out she just walked up to the police car and they slapped the cuffs on her.

This article seems pretty slanted. It paints a pretty picture of this child who was having a nice little outing with his mother with his (toy) handgun and the big bad police just decided they needed to be locked up. Was the police reaction exactly what it should have been? Hard to say, maybe so, maybe not. I just know that it is just as possible that the child was pointing the gun at people making threatening remarks. The problem is that we don't know, we only seem to have a lot of the story from the mother's point of view, there is no actual text from the police report or any statements from witnesses. I think calling the officer racist is a pretty broad assumption