Airport Security... Pissed Me Off

[p3rsian]

so last week i fly up to the east coast mostly cuz we had to evacuate our place. anyways i goto the airport ... after i get my boarding pass i goto the sceurity screening place.. ok so this bitch puts a red marker on my pass and says "sir you have been randomly selected for additional screening" i dont mind this ****.. but this is what pissed me off they hand me a huge ass like the size of 2 A4 papers, hot red sheet. so im the only one in a seperate line with a huge red sheet. i can totally see the ppl like starring at me... im like WTF after 10min 2 like army guys come with huge ass guns... " sir please follow us " we goto this like seperate room .. its like a small room with 1 single chair in the middle.. this guy is checking me inch by inch... then hes like whats this writing on your necklace ? .. (persian writting of my name)... WTF . so they take every thing out of my carrying bag and just shove it back in there when their done.. idiots just checked the shoes i had on not the shoes in my bag.. anyways what reallly pissed me off was the same **** happened coming back to san diego
"sir you have been randomly selected"
**** OFF

[bachviet]

Damn that really sucks.

[hapoo]

Yeah, i somehow always get "randomly" selected as well. :rolleyes:

[ray]

My brother has been randomly searched for at least 1 leg of every trip he took after 9/11

[p3rsian]

yea what pisses me off the most is the red sheet... at least a white sheet would be fine. or a green one not hot red !!

[ufcrusher]

Never given a sheet, but I have been randomly selected. Add to that my idiotic sister (who in her defense has Downs Syndrome) tells the guy that I have bombs in my shoes. I was wearing freaking Berks. I told her that if she did that again, no matter where we were or what country we were in, I was leaving her there.

[djradam]

are you people who are being selected non-white?

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by p3rsian
yea what pisses me off the most is the red sheet... at least a white sheet would be fine. or a green one not hot red !!


I have been checked on almost every trip I go on (and I have flown about 16 times in the last 3 months). I am a 6' 2" pale white guy, go figure.

Never had a red card though.

One thing that pisses me off is that you have your ID+ticket checked at the beginning of the security checkpoint. Then, when your going through the checkpoint they do it again. Then, at the gate they check it again.


Is security so lousy that a person can slip under the ropes at a checkpoint or onto the concourse after the checkpoint? Do we REALLY need THREE ID checks with TWO being within plain sight of TSA people?

Do we REALLY need to be checking 70 year old grandmothers with oxygen masks?

[ray]

I think they should bring back national guard at the x-ray machines. About a month after 9/11 i was flying out of Logan Airport in Boston and three national guardsmen with automatic rifles were watching each entrance.

Let's do what Israel does. We won't have any problems if we got some training from them.

[Sir_Froggy]

that really sucks...

[Nija]

Originally posted by LegendKiller



I have been checked on almost every trip I go on (and I have flown about 16 times in the last 3 months). I am a 6' 2" pale white guy, go figure.

Never had a red card though.

One thing that pisses me off is that you have your ID+ticket checked at the beginning of the security checkpoint. Then, when your going through the checkpoint they do it again. Then, at the gate they check it again.


Is security so lousy that a person can slip under the ropes at a checkpoint or onto the concourse after the checkpoint? Do we REALLY need THREE ID checks with TWO being within plain sight of TSA people?

Do we REALLY need to be checking 70 year old grandmothers with oxygen masks?

I don't fly very much (twice in the last 5+ years)

they didn't ask for my ID :shrug:

[Merlin]

I used to fly about two to three times a month back in the day. Now it is such a hassle I only do it about two or three times a year. And the airlines wonder why they are going broke.

Here is a newsflash folks....There are only so many indignities I willing to suffer before I say screw it and find something else to do with my time besides travel. And yes, when I'm walking in a public place I do indeed like to have my goddamn shoes on!

[Joshua]

I **ALWAYS** get the "random" security check. Once at the first check, they make me take off my shoes in front of everyone (I don't even get to go to the little room). Last time, they also made me take off my belt and unbutton my jeans to prove it was my metal button on the jeans that set off the wand. So now I'm practically stripping in front of everyone coming through the checkpoint.

Next I get to the gate and get yanked off the line for the "random" security check where they go through my carry-on and make me get naked again.

I wouldn't mind if I thought it was legit, but I'm a big white guy 6'5" tall. If I wanted to **** with people on the plane, I don't need any weapons at all. The bottom line is that I get checked for political correctness. This way they can say, "see, we check big white people that are clearly not what we're looking for too!".

Sorry if you're being discriminated against Persian, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... I am pissed because I get reverse discrimination CONSTANTLY!

Blah!

I agree with Merlin's point. Air travel really isn't worth it anymore for me unless I'm crossing an ocean.

[kei2]

Originally posted by p3rsian
then hes like whats this writing on your necklace ? .. (persian writting of my name)... WTFYeah that sounds like racial/ethnic profiling all right. That's jacked up. Besides, if they're going to do that stuff they shouldn't front like it's random. "Randomly selected", bah.

[psycho-]

I cross the ocean at least 1-2 times a year. Ive had security checks done on me (only american airliners have this requirement) in so many different countries, it's ludicrous...but in some senses, it's also necessary.

Pants check
Pat down check
Shoe check
Luggage check
Carry on check

Done them all
I've been carry on checked a few times...especially when I sit in first or business class

[Nanotech9]

i have mixed feelings on all this...

heres one point of view: i believe you are NOT being randomly checked. I believe it is based on resemblance to a skin color (among other things maybe?) Obviously, the current threat SEEMS to be orginiating from olive or dark skinned "eastern looking" people. In this point of view, i can understand making these not-so-random selections - it actually may be effective, somewhat. It makes sense that if your looking for someone "dark skinned" that you wouldn't stop and search tall white guys (unless you're trying to pretend like its not a racial thing).

On the other side of the coin: this could be considered racial profiling. If i were dark skinned, i would HATE being discriminated against in this manner, especially if i was a natural born (or otherwise) citizen of the USA. I think its an infringement on my freedoms.

Anyway, thats why i have mixed feelings. I'de have to say though, that i sway a LOT more towards NOT having my freedoms infringed upon.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by LegendKiller



I have been checked on almost every trip I go on (and I have flown about 16 times in the last 3 months). I am a 6' 2" pale white guy, go figure.

Never had a red card though.

One thing that pisses me off is that you have your ID+ticket checked at the beginning of the security checkpoint. Then, when your going through the checkpoint they do it again. Then, at the gate they check it again.


Is security so lousy that a person can slip under the ropes at a checkpoint or onto the concourse after the checkpoint? Do we REALLY need THREE ID checks with TWO being within plain sight of TSA people?

Do we REALLY need to be checking 70 year old grandmothers with oxygen masks?
if you're flying last-minute full-fare tix, or one-ways, you are almost certain to be a "selectee". if you're on a 1-way, it's 100%.

it seems to me that they've streamlined the id checks significantly. every time i've flow recently, they only check id as you're going through the security checkpoint. federal regulations don't require them to check ID at the gate anymore, although it happens some....the rules have been in flux so much for the past 2 years that no one can keep track of what the current situation is.

as for what's happened to people like persian and hapoo, it's racial profiling, plain and simple. in the numerous flights i've taken post-9/11, i don't think i've ever been on a plane with a person who looked like they might be middle eastern (basically, anyone with brown skin) who wasn't searched. it sucks, and i'm not sure how effective it is. al Qeada is pretty smart, and they have "whites" working with them. if they want to attack through the air again, they'll probably send some white boys.

[ufcrusher]

In answer to the question, I am another 6'5" white guy. We are seeing another trend here. Middle eastern looking people and 6'5" white guys. On top of that my first and last name are both quite white.

[Merlin]

Originally posted by whitak24

if you're flying last-minute full-fare tix, or one-ways, you are almost certain to be a "selectee". if you're on a 1-way, it's 100%.


You're right on this and I think it is just ridiculous. Yes, on 9.11 they used one way fares but does anyone with half a brain think they could not have done the same thing with round trip tickets?

See, that's part of what is so frustrating. All the increased security has done is to make it more aggravating to travel - not safer! I mean really, does the fact that they will now confiscate a set of friggin nail clippers do anything in the least for safety? No it does not. Does it make travelling an aggravating thing to do - yes!

For crying out loud, a little common sense would go a long way.

[Leon]

On my last flight, they were searching a middle-aged caucasian female who was on a wheelchair and they MADE HER STAND UP... :nuts:

I'm pretty sure Bill Walton (who was on both my flights) didn't get searched. :heh:

[whitak24]

Originally posted by Merlin


You're right on this and I think it is just ridiculous. Yes, on 9.11 they used one way fares but does anyone with half a brain think they could not have done the same thing with round trip tickets?

See, that's part of what is so frustrating. All the increased security has done is to make it more aggravating to travel - not safer! I mean really, does the fact that they will now confiscate a set of friggin nail clippers do anything in the least for safety? No it does not. Does it make travelling an aggravating thing to do - yes!

For crying out loud, a little common sense would go a long way.
i totally agree merlin

my main problems with the airport security regulations:
1.) they seem to have looked extensively at what happened on 9.11 and tried to do everything possible to stop that from happening again. but terrorists aren't stupid. they aren't going to use the EXACT same tactics again
2.) the things that are being done more to make everyone THINK they're safe vs. actually being safe. if you talk to a lot of americans (especially those who never/rarely fly), they hear the stories of confiscating nailclippers and searching people with brown skin and say "well, it may be kind of unreasonable, but at least they're making the planes safe." they're not, but that fiction is vital for the survival of the commercial airline industry.

[Merlin]

Originally posted by whitak24

they seem to have looked extensively at what happened on 9.11 and tried to do everything possible to stop that from happening again. but terrorists aren't stupid. they aren't going to use the EXACT same tactics again


When you spend all of your efforts fighting the last war you lose the one you are currently in. Talk about a recurring theme in history.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by LegendKiller



Do we REALLY need to be checking 70 year old grandmothers with oxygen masks? yes them especially, sneaking bastards with their explosive oxygen tanks :angry:

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by kei2
Yeah that sounds like racial/ethnic profiling all right. That's jacked up. Besides, if they're going to do that stuff they shouldn't front like it's random. "Randomly selected", bah.


I think the whole PC pretense needs to be dropped in the case of airport security. Until 6'+ pasty white scandinavian guys start bombing places, I think its safe to say that you dont have to check them, or at least not as many.

While racial profiling may be wrong in a PC sense, you need to go to the source to catch the bees, and thats not in Minnesota in the winter time.


LK

[RoniMan]

Originally posted by ufcrusher
In answer to the question, I am another 6'5" white guy. We are seeing another trend here. Middle eastern looking people and 6'5" white guys.

[lord helmet]how many 6'5" white guys we've got on this ship?!


Originally posted by ufcrusher
On top of that my first and last name are both quite white.
is it whitey mcwhite? :P j/k!

on a serious note: the racial profiling sucks, but it does happen. discrimination sucks, but it still happens too. what a wonderful world we live in. :rolleyes:
my gf works at the airport, and she had to be the person to do a security check once. she asked a lady to step out of line (no red cards), and the lady was less than willing. she kept asking why, and complained about my gf's attitude, and the more she complained, the less cordial my gf got. so she gave the passenger an ultimatum, "listen lady, i'm simply doing my job, if you don't comply, i'll simply take you off the flight and you can deal with the police." of course, she complied after that. but i have two questions for you now...
1) are you interested in the woman's nationality? (if not, then let me ask you this, what was the nationality of the woman in your head when you played out this scenario in your head?)
2) wanna take a guess at what the lady probably told her friends when she went back home?

just some food for thought...

[Merlin]

I guessed white. But that is probably because when I think cranky old lady the image I get is my mean old grandmother. And no, she is not one to be trifled with. :bonk:

[cheapie]

unlike many of the computer and gaming threads, i actually have quote a bit of experience here.

i fly constantly for business. and i fly EVERY single time through detroit which has one the biggest populations of Arab people in the US. in my experience, the people that are selected are more often white and non-Arab looking than otherwise. in fact, i have rarely, if ever, seen one of the darker people on our plane get searched.

it's almost exclusively white people.

i don't know that i've formed a firm opinion on where i stand on this. i don't believe that Arab/Muslim extremists are the only ones that are capabable/willing/desirous to blow up planes.

however, if you look at virtually every one of the hijackings over the last few decades, it has been the case. while it is CERTAINLY not true that many Arab or Muslims are terrorists, it is undeniably true that many if not most of the terrorists that have targeted airlines are Arabs or Muslims.

i'm guessing it sucks to have a dark complexion and have people be suspicious of you.

as a white guy, i have crosses to bear as well. racism, genocide, etc. have been committed by my race.


on another topic, i have found that travelling since 9/11 is not bad at all. i fly out of kalamazoo airport and the airlines are more attentive, more efficient, and listen to my concerns better. while i do not like taking my shoes off to go through security, i understand we live in a different world than we did a couple of years ago. it's just a fact of life.

[whitak24]

AZO is a great airport to fly through for security reasons. when you only have 5 gates, and fly planes that seat 30 people, there just cannot be too many people at the security line at any one time.

the NWA terminal at detroit is good as far as security, but the smith terminal is horrible. if you ever fly direct out of detroit, try to avoid flying on any airline besides NWA

[cheapie]

you're correct. azo is tremendous. i can get to the airport 30 minutes before takeoff and have absolutely no problem boarding.

[rajatQ2]

I'm indian, and i get searched A LOT, because i fly A lot.

It is racial profiling, its obvious, but honestly, I don't mind. I believe that being able to fly around the country so much is a luxury, and a little inconvenience is worth it. I'd rather spend a few extra minutes and a little embarassment and headache for the sake of security. travel to other countries like india, the middle east, or even Germany, and you will see how different their attitudes are to air travel. security is TIGHT, and people don't fly so freely.

All this recent security has the sweeping effect of making it difficult for terrorists to attack airlines again, and to discourage them. I'm sure someone with real dedication could still cause problems, it is just much harder now.

You can just do simple things like wear gym shoes on the plane, be careful about what kind of belt you wear, and put all your metal into your carry on bag before the X-ray machine, and you have a good chance at being processed quickly. imho.

[blueindian]

Originally posted by rajatQ2

All this recent security has the sweeping effect of making it difficult for terrorists to attack airlines again, and to discourage them. I'm sure someone with real dedication could still cause problems, it is just much harder now.



i don't buy that at all. i say it is just as easy now. the security changes made since 9/11 can not prevent another attack, they can only give the illusion of safety. the only exception to that are the armed pilots. guarentee you right now i can go by a one way ticket, pay cash for it, and still get 6" ceramic blade knife onto the plane. then, if nobody else is armed the plane is mine.

disclaimer: i have no desire to actually do this.

[Merlin]

I don't know about the countries you just mentioned but earlier in the year I flew to England and Swtizerland and the experience was much, and I do mean much, easier than flying through Atlanta!

And maybe I' spoiled but I don't veiw traveling by air as a luxury at all. Moving about freely is one of our rights.

And here in Atlanta they still ask you to remove sneakers. It is a friggin joke.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by blueindian



i don't buy that at all. i say it is just as easy now. the security changes made since 9/11 can not prevent another attack, they can only give the illusion of safety. the only exception to that are the armed pilots. guarentee you right now i can go by a one way ticket, pay cash for it, and still get 6" ceramic blade knife onto the plane. then, if nobody else is armed the plane is mine.

disclaimer: i have no desire to actually do this.
:stupid:

obviously, some of the changes have made things safer (ie - no more baseball bats as carry-on luggage). but on balance, a determined and only marginally creative criminal is going to easily be able to circumvent the supposed security procedures.

i don't know as armed pilots are the answer, but i think an increased force of sky marshalls are. here's a freaking idea: cut funding for the cops who spend all their time sitting in highway medians waiting for people driving 10 mph over the speed limits and instead hire plainclothes cops so that EVERY flight is patrolled.

then get the best explosive detection technology you can find to check passengers and luggage.

i think that would be an initial way to limit the risk factors in flying.

[attgig]

Originally posted by whitak24
here's a freaking idea: cut funding for the cops who spend all their time sitting in highway medians waiting for people driving 10 mph over the speed limits and instead hire plainclothes cops so that EVERY flight is patrolled.

but then you have to worry about the jur-is-my-dic-tion crap.

i think you have to understand that no privacy laws should exist once you get to the airport. yeah, it'll suck. and they'll treat you like crap. but that's just the way it works.

[kei2]

Originally posted by LegendKiller
I think the whole PC pretense needs to be dropped in the case of airport security. Until 6'+ pasty white scandinavian guys start bombing places, I think its safe to say that you dont have to check them, or at least not as many.

While racial profiling may be wrong in a PC sense, you need to go to the source to catch the bees, and thats not in Minnesota in the winter time.

LK If they're going to make that their position they shouldn't BS (bull****, not brainsmile) people by saying it's random. It's either random or it isn't. It's either based on race/ethnicity or it isn't. A little straightforwardness would go a long way.

[LegendKiller]

Would it go a long way? Somehow I doubt it would. As soon as you openly declared it profiling you would have every special interest group , not to mention the ACLU, down your throat filing lawsuits. Then, you would get some people who were checked filing lawsuits about being racially descriminated against. Then, you would have boycots, picket lines, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton up there saying how evil it is to descriminate and how the the minorities are being the scape goat.

It would open up a crap storm so big that nothing would get done. You would have talk shows showing "victimized" people, news anchors on scene watching searches and commenting about "How we are puting civil rights back by 50 years". Jerry Springer would feature redneck TSA searchers and the dark skinned people they victimized battling it out with chairs.

On the opposite side you would have that moron Graham talking about how evil Arabic or Muslim people are and how we should kick them all out of the world, his stupid son would join in with that. Of course, to them, every Arabic person is evil personified and thus they cannot fly on the same plane as "decent" white folk. This would start huge battles between Arabic or Mulsim people and Graham followers.

Then, that battle would tumble to a Christian vs Muslim battle, which would snowball into more hatred for against the US.



It would be a feeding frenzy and it would cost millions if not billions of dollars and possibly lives.


LK

[le_stick]

Such is life!!!! that's all I can say.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by attgig


but then you have to worry about the jur-is-my-dic-tion crap.

i think you have to understand that no privacy laws should exist once you get to the airport. yeah, it'll suck. and they'll treat you like crap. but that's just the way it works.
ok, i didn't mean to sound like i was proposing a complete, comprehensive solution. but to explain briefly:
obviously, you can't have officers from the ohio highway patrol boarding planes at port columbus and enforcing orders. you'd have to have federal agents. and since federal agents have jurisdiction to apprehend criminals anywhere in the united states where crimes are being committed, and because attempting to hijack a plane violates a variety of federal laws, you have no problem there.

so then where does the money come from? basically, while states pay for their own state police and local units of government pay for their sheriffs/police, much of that money ultimately comes from the federal government. basically, the feds give grants to states (and local governments), the states give grants to local governments, etc. so by cutting these grants, they could get money to pay for sky marshalls.

not that money should be a real issue anyway. last i heard, we're spending $1 bil+ per week in iraq to "protect america from terrorism." i'd think we could afford a few million for domestic air safety.

as for your second comment, i find that rather troubling. what do you mean "no privacy laws should exist once you get to an airport"? does that mean that if they want to make you strip down and give you a full cavity search in front of everybody, that's ok?

basically, such a statement is far to broad. are you giving up some of your rights when you fly? of course. but things need to be held in check -- if we destroy all our freedoms so that we can be 5% safer, then what have we accomplished. not to bring back the tired old saw, but "the terrorists will have won".

i'm all for security measures that realistically address terror risks. but a.) i don't want to put up with crap that's not making me any safer and b.) i want my basic liberties left intact.

[LegendKiller]

Personally, I think the whole "Lets shove more money at airline safety" is a moot point. Terrorists rarely use the same mode of attack. Yes, they may always use suicide bombers against israel, but that is a modular attack using the same methods.

They will probably never use airlines again to target buildings. Hostages on airlines have proven to be very unsuccessful, so thats out. Doing what we have been doing is catching the dumb people, which is fine by me, they can often be more dangerous.

The fact remains, no matter how much protection you put in any one place you will leave another weak point open for attack. The only way to prevent people from doing what happened on 9-11 again is to completely shut down air travel in the country. Determined people will ALWAYS find a way to do what they want.


LK

[bachviet]

Originally posted by blueindian



i don't buy that at all. i say it is just as easy now. the security changes made since 9/11 can not prevent another attack, they can only give the illusion of safety. the only exception to that are the armed pilots. guarentee you right now i can go by a one way ticket, pay cash for it, and still get 6" ceramic blade knife onto the plane. then, if nobody else is armed the plane is mine.

disclaimer: i have no desire to actually do this.
And what are you going to do exactly with that 6" blade??? The passengers probably jump you from behind before you could do anything.

[blueindian]

Originally posted by bachviet

And what are you going to do exactly with that 6" blade??? The passengers probably jump you from behind before you could do anything.

well, the 9/11 highjackers had box cutters. but that's not really the point.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by LegendKiller
Personally, I think the whole "Lets shove more money at airline safety" is a moot point. Terrorists rarely use the same mode of attack. Yes, they may always use suicide bombers against israel, but that is a modular attack using the same methods.

They will probably never use airlines again to target buildings. Hostages on airlines have proven to be very unsuccessful, so thats out. Doing what we have been doing is catching the dumb people, which is fine by me, they can often be more dangerous.

The fact remains, no matter how much protection you put in any one place you will leave another weak point open for attack. The only way to prevent people from doing what happened on 9-11 again is to completely shut down air travel in the country. Determined people will ALWAYS find a way to do what they want.


LK
well, i agree to an extent. when i was flying all the time after 9/11, people were always asking me if i was worried about flying. i'd always say "no way. it's not like the terrorists are going to use the same methods twice."

i still think it's probably more likely that the next attack will target power plants, water supplies, or some other part of the infrastructure. but supposedly, if our intelligence operations are to be believed (not sure that's the case), terrorists are still looking at air transportation.

i was making the argument (in an unclear way) that effort would be better spent on security measures that would actually have some chance of stopping another hijacking attempt rather than strip-searching old ladies whose hip implant was setting of the metal detector.

but like you said, as soon as we shore up one area, we leave another unprotected.....

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by blueindian


well, the 9/11 highjackers had box cutters. but that's not really the point.


I believe his point is that his "blade" is 6" while the hijakers "blades" were only 1-2", thus, he is better and has a better "point". umm...yup.


LK

[rajatQ2]

Originally posted by blueindian


well, the 9/11 highjackers had box cutters. but that's not really the point.

Their strength was in their numbers and their organization.

Ceramic is brittle, so wouldn't a ceramic blade be pretty useless?

Here is a story. When i was a few years younger, a few of my buddies and I went to So Cal for a break, and drove down and went to Tijuana. we got 5 sticks of funny mexican dynaminte (for $5) and we brought it back aboard the plane, in our check-in bags. Do you think that could pass today?

[blueindian]

Originally posted by rajatQ2


Their strength was in their numbers and their organization.


i realize that, but nothing can be done in the realm of airport security to affect that.


Originally posted by rajatQ2

Ceramic is brittle, so wouldn't a ceramic blade be pretty useless?


actually, composit was the word i was looking for, though some composite materials do contain ceramic. and i'd actually say ceramic would be useful for a highjacking. imagine a large ceramic bowl broken into jagged pieces. put a handle on one of those pieces and you've got more of a weapon than most everyone else on the plane

composite knives (http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/RoboLander_files/plasticknives.htm)


Originally posted by rajatQ2


Their strength was in their numbers and their organization.

Ceramic is brittle, so wouldn't a ceramic blade be pretty useless?

Here is a story. When i was a few years younger, a few of my buddies and I went to So Cal for a break, and drove down and went to Tijuana. we got 5 sticks of funny mexican dynaminte (for $5) and we brought it back aboard the plane, in our check-in bags. Do you think that could pass today?

yes. not all checked baggage is xrayed, sniffed, or searched.

[ufcrusher]

I have a few points:

1. Some college kid got contraband on planes just a few weeks ago..even after he told the Government and TSA how and when he was going to do it. If they cant even stop the known, how would they stop the unknown.

2. I read (in Playboy) some rant by a guy named John Gilmore, who was taken off a plane (and arrested) because he wore a button that said "Suspected Terrorist" and would not take it off. (From the picture he is a white guy) His rant stated that if all the honest people were allowed to carry a weapon that was as good or better than ther terrorist on board a plane, then we would probably have a lot less trouble. Implying that when a terrorist tried to start something, John Q Public would pull out his weapon everyone else would pull out there weapon and the fcuker would be outgunned. Makes sense in a weird way, but I am not sure how comfortable I would be with it. Then again, i would much rather fly with my own weapons on me.

3. Legality aside: If you were able to fly on a airline that was completely divided racially (and/or religiously where required). One plane is for caucasians, this plane is for african americans, this plane is for middle easterners and/or muslim/islamic followers, this plane is for asians. (you get my drift) Would you?

What if you had to pay a yearly premium to join a private company that was only open to its members and just happened to own airplanes?

And as a point of information, everyone who worked on these planes would be of the same group and they supplied themselves.






My answer: No, I wouldnt chose to fly on the proposed airlines. I think that such a division would actually result in more problems. If they knew that none of their own people were on the plane, then more violence might ensue.

[ray]

Originally posted by rajatQ2
travel to other countries like india, the middle east, or even Germany, and you will see how different their attitudes are to air travel. security is TIGHT, and people don't fly so freely.


Again, my father used to travel to Israel many many years ago on business, and let's just say he didn't mind getting searched several times with men aiming guns at him.

I think America really needs to adopt a security protocol like that...Armed military everywhere. Period.

[Merlin]

You've got to be friggin kidding me. Living a police state like you describe would be all the incentive I need to move to Australia.

[Seagull]

Originally posted by rajatQ2



Ceramic is brittle, so wouldn't a ceramic blade be pretty useless?



No ceramic knives are not brittle, in fact besides the coloring it's hard to tell them from a metal blade. My sis is a ceramic engineer and she gave me a few years ago when they were first marketed. Unless abused they stay sharp almost indefinitly. An interesting side note: if you remember when ceramic superconductors were in the news almost weekly as the temperature at which the superconducting effect kept rising you may remember seeing the superconducting demonstration where a ceramic pellet was "floating" as if in anti-gravity due to the superconductive effect. My sis holds the patent for the ceramic compound used to make the pellets. Her husband, my brother in law, holds the patent for the ceramic compound used in almost every digital cell tower antennae.

I almost always travel with my family. We are a white, middle class typical family with 3 young kids aged 3-11 and we get flagged for the "special" search every trip. On the last trip out of Chicago O'Hare I had to go through security 3 times (special line each time). The first time they found my 8 year old daughter had packed her mag light in her carry on, it was okay in there on the flight into O'Hare, but O'Hare security said she could use it as a weapon to hit a flight employee over the head. So they have me put it into one of my carry ons and bring it back to the baggage check in to have it put under the plane. I check it and go back through security and am recognized as having been flagged so it's back to the special line. When I get screened again we are about to run off to the gate when we find that the poster tube my son had been carrying is not with us. We look everywhere and decide that he must have left it at the baggage check in area. I send them off to wait at the gate and I go back out past security to the check in and ask if anyone found it. They are really strong on their emphasis that you must notify security if any of your bags has been left unattended. The baggage checkin guys don't remember the poster tube and say someone must have taken it. I keep looking around and spot it leaning up against the far side of the baggage checkin counter. So I retrieve it and run off to go through the security check point again. This time the security guys are waving at me and calling me by name. They let me go to the front of the line and do the whole take off the shoes and undo the belt thing. I tell them that the poster tube has been left unattended and they say "don't worry it should be OK". They wouldn't even open it. Of course the one security guy who was not there for my previous two checks decides that my cigarette lighter has to be confiscated (I seem to loose 1 lighter on each trip) even though his coworkers say it is not covered under the confiscated items list. I don't have time to argue as I'm going to have to run to the gate to catch my flight. I did ask the new guy about the poster tube, he took it and shook it and handed it back to me, never even opened it and looked inside even though I told him it had been left unattended for over an hour. I had to open it myself just to be sure it hadn't been tampered with as I ran through the terminal. (It had our Chicago Air and Water show 2003 posters in it).