Ten Reasons Why You Should Never Accept a Diamond Ring from Anyone

[nickel]

Ten Reasons Why You Should Never Accept a Diamond Ring from Anyone, Under Any Circumstances, Even If They Really Want to Give You One

1. You've Been Psychologically Conditioned To Want a Diamond
The diamond engagement ring is a 63-year-old invention of N.W.Ayer advertising agency. The De Beers diamond cartel contracted N.W.Ayer to create a demand for what are, essentially, useless hunks of rock.

2. Diamonds are Priced Well Above Their Value
The De Beers cartel has systematically held diamond prices at levels far greater than their abundance would generate under anything even remotely resembling perfect competition. All diamonds not already under its control are bought by the cartel, and then the De Beers cartel carefully managed world diamond supply in order to keep prices steadily high.

3. Diamonds Have No Resale or Investment Value
Any diamond that you buy or receive will indeed be yours forever: De Beers’ advertising deliberately brain-washed women not to sell; the steady price is a tool to prevent speculation in diamonds; and no dealer will buy a diamond from you. You can only sell it at a diamond purchasing center or a pawn shop where you will receive a tiny fraction of its original "value."

4. Diamond Miners are Disproportionately Exposed to HIV/AIDS
Many diamond mining camps enforce all-male, no-family rules. Men contract HIV/AIDS from camp sex-workers, while women married to miners have no access to employment, no income outside of their husbands and no bargaining power for negotiating safe sex, and thus are at extremely high risk of contracting HIV.

5. Open-Pit Diamond Mines Pose Environmental Threats
Diamond mines are open pits where salts, heavy minerals, organisms, oil, and chemicals from mining equipment freely leach into ground-water, endangering people in nearby mining camps and villages, as well as downstream plants and animals.

6. Diamond Mine-Owners Violate Indigenous People's Rights
Diamond mines in Australia, Canada, India and many countries in Africa are situated on lands traditionally associated with indigenous peoples. Many of these communities have been displaced, while others remain, often at great cost to their health, livelihoods and traditional cultures.

7. Slave Laborers Cut and Polish Diamonds
More than one-half of the world's diamonds are processed in India where many of the cutters and polishers are bonded child laborers. Bonded children work to pay off the debts of their relatives, often unsuccessfully. When they reach adulthood their debt is passed on to their younger siblings or to their own children.

8. Conflict Diamonds Fund Civil Wars in Africa
There is no reliable way to insure that your diamond was not mined or stolen by government or rebel military forces in order to finance civil conflict. Conflict diamonds are traded either for guns or for cash to pay and feed soldiers.

9. Diamond Wars are Fought Using Child Warriors
Many diamond producing governments and rebel forces use children as soldiers, laborers in military camps, and sex slaves. Child soldiers are given drugs to overcome their fear and reluctance to participate in atrocities.

10. Small Arms Trade is Intimately Related to Diamond Smuggling
Illicit diamonds inflame the clandestine trade of small arms. There are 500 billion small arms in the world today which are used to kill 500,000 people annually, the vast majority of whom are non-combatants.

linkified (http://www.fguide.org/Bulletin/conflictdiamonds.htm)

[chrissy]

1,2, and 3 are the reasons I have a mystic topaz for my wedding band.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Preach it!

It's sad how you can confront many women with these facts, and they'll coldly say "I don't care, I love sparkly things!" :rolleyes:

My wife and I both wear simple, plain gold bands.

[cheapie]

i could have used that thread a few years ago.

[Grubbie]

Watch De Beers crumble in the next 10-20years, the creation of synthetic diamonds are going to kill them...

[nickel]

Originally posted by chosenfool
but if you were GIVEN a flawless diamond ring or pendant or watch with no strings attached, would you take it?
yes. shall i PM you my addy? :)

[LegendKiller]

As with everything else in this world, there is information to debunk some of those points.

For example, DeBeers does NOT buy EVERY diamond in the world. BusinessWeek had a good article about the russian diamond magnate. Russia ships more diamonds than any other country in the world and is increasing every year. Another example is the Kodiak diamonds from Canada, which again, are not owned by DeBeers.

Another issue is that Diamonds have had value long before DeBeers came to prominance. They are NOT as abundant as that makes it seem and are STILL a precious stone, however, emeralds (I think) are more rare. Just think of the Hope diamond, or any other thousands of examples of crown jewels being overburdended with diamonds, and these examples go back hundreds of years.

I agree that diamonds are WAY overpriced, but so are a lot of things in life. However, you DO get resale value out of diamonds, as with everything in life. You wont get your full paid price, but you will probably get 80%, just because you NEVER get full price for something that is used. I have never seen a 10k diamond go for "A fraction" such as 1,000.

I have never seen any facts that show HIV/Aids being rampant in diamond mines. Nor have I ever seen evidence that most diamonds are finished in india by slaves. I DO know that a great number ARE finished in europe.

Open pit mines are a threat no matter what, depending on how well they are managed (in this case probably poorly). However, a large number of other minerals are mined this way but we dont see a huge deal about them.

9. is probably correct.


10 is complete BS. Dollars are intimately related to arms also, so lets ban the dollar!! YEAH! As far as the number of 500,000 annually, what do they consider a "small arms", where are those killings, and who causes them. Technically, an M16 is a small arm and we killed a bunch of Iraqi soldiers, therefore we are just as bad as diamonds! I am pretty skeptical of that number mainly because 500,000 is pretty dang rounded, it could be 450,000, that 50,000 rounding represents a little over a 11% misstatement. Given the fact that it is probably a BS figure casts doubt on the number itself.


Lets face it people, half of the stuff we read like this is nothing but FUD spread by people with a cause. Go watch the Penn and Teller episode of Bullsh!t on Showtime where they go to a environmental protest. The get a couple hundred loonies to sign a petion to ban "Dihydrogen Monoxide", of course, they said it can kill people, it causes acid rain, it gets on our veggies and can threaten wildlife by suffocating them. The morons bought right into it.

Nearly everything we buy has a downside to it, that pen you're using at work has ink, which is poisonous if a kid eats it, so should we ban pens?

Everything that we buy also has value. Whether that is a monetary value or not, it has it. I hate the fact that I am paying more for a diamond than I should, and that debeers has kept the price inflated. However, my fiance wanted one and I love her, so I got it for her. She is an educated woman and realizes the downside.

Instead of buying into this FUD lock stock and barrel you should realize that everything you buy, eat, wear, or use has a downside. That may be caused by the below-market wage rates your bargain shampoo manufacturing causes in that craphole workplace, or the mail that you read that supports a post office that is a bad working environment.


LK

[DaFunkyUnit]

man, what a downer... :disa:


but yea, synthetic diamonds are the way to go! (there was an article on /. a while back.... )

[whitak24]

i agree with LK that there was some major bullshit in the original post. the suggestion that diamonds were "worthless hunks of rock" before debeers started an advertising campaign is laughable at best.

that said, is debeers evil? hell yeah. it's unfortunate that they use their monopoly position to simply squeeze out more profit rather than using it (as they could) to improve the communities where they are mining the rocks.

and while everything has a downside, diamonds perhaps have a larger downside with the extreme problems that their mining is causing in some african communities, particularly since they are basically useless -- they're not really making society better by their existence.

fortunately, there are a variety of ways that you can get diamonds that have been obtained in a more socially responsible way.

[Kevster]

Mrs. Kevster has an excellent quality 2kt deep-blue Sapphire as the center stone in her engagement ring. She gets comments on it all the time. :)

You don't want to know how much I paid for that stone in the Netherlands, either (the US is very expensive compared to Europe)

[le_stick]

Supply and Demand!!!!

If nobody want diamonds then they are just another piece of rocks, and this also apply to everything. My 2 cents

[Pinkgirl36]

when i get married, i want my birthstone ( ruby ) with the persons I marry on it as well

[DaFunkyUnit]

Originally posted by Pinkgirl36
when i get married, i want my birthstone ( ruby ) with the persons I marry on it as well

going Mormon, eh?

[Pinkgirl36]

um....no...

[oblongmelon]

Originally posted by Kevster
Mrs. Kevster has an excellent quality 2kt deep-blue Sapphire as the center stone in her engagement ring. She gets comments on it all the time. :)

You don't want to know how much I paid for that stone in the Netherlands, either (the US is very expensive compared to Europe)

How Much????? come on..you can't give half pieces of info.

I have a big ass diamond. If I sold it-and I've been offered ALOT for it...i could probably by a new car :). Not to brag-but it's one of the few things that Mr.Melon got right-besides my kids and my Caddy. lol

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by Kevster
You don't want to know how much I paid for that stone in the Netherlands, either (the US is very expensive compared to Europe)

Is it worth the flight?

[Kevster]

Originally posted by oblongmelon


How Much????? come on..you can't give half pieces of info.

I have a big ass diamond. If I sold it-and I've been offered ALOT for it...i could probably by a new car :). Not to brag-but it's one of the few things that Mr.Melon got right-besides my kids and my Caddy. lol

After the conversion rate from Euros to Dollars (which was very good at the time) it cost me approximately $425.

I've seen some seriously big rocks too - I saw a 3.9 carat round brilliant-cut diamond on a ring that would put your eye out if you caught the sunlight through it the wrong way (it was clean too - cert had it at D-E in color and VVS2 and no flouresence). That was in a ring with two other ~1.3kt diamonds and it went for $19k at auction (about a third of what you'd pay in the wholesale jewelry district in Los Angeles).

[attgig]

http://www.guerrillanews.com/diamondlife/

[ski]

Wow... that video's pretty disturbing, apparently they cut off people's hands?

[Grubbie]

Originally posted by DaFunkyUnit
man, what a downer... :disa:


but yea, synthetic diamonds are the way to go! (there was an article on /. a while back.... )

Not sure if you are meaning the wired article, but it was a 6 or 7page story, you can check it online at there site if anybody is interested in it.

[attgig]

Originally posted by skiAtomic
Wow... that video's pretty disturbing, apparently they cut off people's hands?

yeah, very disturbing.

[molecularfire]

Is De Beers evil, sure they are. Are diamond rings for weddings a marketing ploy? Yep. That being said, I will still get my GF whatever ring she wants, diamond or not because she buys into it. She would not be happy if I force that issue... and when it comes to it, that's more important to me. Sometimes in life, all you can do is bend over. :)

[Grubbie]

But you can get her back by making her buy you a wedding band with diamonds in it :D

[cheapchinese]

flawless diamonD ~~~
damn...anyone want to send some of those as a b-lated present :P

[PCC]

I thought I had it easy when I got away with buying my wife a simple gold wedding band. Then she got a job at a jewelry store and it's all been downhill since. The whole jewelry industry is a sham. They overprice everything to the point where they are plain ripping people off. The more hands that touch the merchandise the higher the price goes and the more you will pay.

My wife once bought a few strands of pearls. When appraised, they were valued at five times what she paid for them. She bought them at a pearl wholesaler. She has two diamond rings. The second one, she got at her work for $1000 off and it appraised for $3000 more than what she paid for it. To me, it's just an expensive rock set in an ugly setting.

[Cantacuzene]

LK, just for my information, who do you feel about those commercials that say drugs fund terrorism? If you object to the idea that diamonds fund terrorism you ought to object to drugs doing the same.

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
LK, just for my information, who do you feel about those commercials that say drugs fund terrorism? If you object to the idea that diamonds fund terrorism you ought to object to drugs doing the same.


I dont object to the idea that diamonds fund small arms sales, I object to the fact that they demonize diamonds and make it seem like it is ONLY diamonds that fund the arms trade. You have to admit that that statement was surely misleading in how it was slanted.

Hell, if I went and bought small arms with Quaker Oats they would be directly correlated with the arms trade, so therefore good ole quaker guy is evil! BAN OATMEAL AND THAT BASTAGE QUAKER DUDE WHO CONTROLS 90% OF THE OATMEAL TRADE!!! OOOOOHHHH NOOOOOO!!!!



As far as the jewelery trade being a sham, everything has value. Remember the tulip thing a couple centuries ago?

Personally, my fiance's 1.1c solitaire was "priced" at 4k. No inclusions, carbon, good clarity, cut, and color. They put it on "sale" at 3500. I bargained with the woman for 2 hours and got her down to 2650 with tax and the warranty. Needless to say she was pretty pissed.

Here is how you do it. You go in there and you REALLY offer a lowball offer. Bring your other with, have her "love" the thing. Then you go and say "I dont know, its quite a bit". She whines a bit, but agrees. The jewler will say "well, I will go down to 3200. I bargain a bit more, get it down to 3k. Then I say "thats still a bit much, can you go any lower"? She will "call her manager" (complete BS), and say yeah.

Then, you REALLY twist the knife in. You say "I am not sure if I can afford that, I just got out of grad school, I have 80k in loans, I bought a new house and car...blah blah blah blah". So you look at a diamond HALF the price. That way they think their commission is going out the window....baaad news!

So, you lay on the guilt trip "Ohhh, if you could bring the first one down to 2.5k my fiance would be so happy and I could really make her day". Instead of them putting the burden on YOU you put it on THEM. THey start to buy into your need and they will do a lot more to get that going.

Of course, the whole time you mention that you will buy the wedding band there, or you will buy more jewlery. (aka, bunch more commission).

So, I put more guilt trip on. Got her down to 2500, added in tax and the warranty. The lady wasn't too happy. I know I still got ripped, but I got a lot LESS ripped than the joe blow who goes in there and plopped down 3200.

So, I went in 2 weeks ago to get my fiance's wedding band. 1c diamonds channel set. They had a "sale" down to 1k when it was originally 2k. I bargained again, got the woman down to 800 using the above tactics, she threw in the warranty plan.

I am a hard ass when it comes to money, my fiance thinks I am kind of a jerk going in there and pushing their buttons, but when it comes to $200 bucks on a purchase, I will be a jerk to anybody except for my family, friends, and coworkers.

BTW, I had a friend who was a jeweler. Dont EVER let them "clean" your stuff. THey usually use that as an opportunity to "readjust" the prongs, which means they lossen it and try to get you to pay "repair" fees. That's another way to get people to buy the warranty.

Jewelery stores are the same, the mall dudes just jack up the price and mark down. The smaller guys just jack it up a bit and dont budge as much. They are just like car dealerships, if you go in there aware that you will get ripped off some how then you can prevent being screwed.

I can't wait till I go to buy a new car, mine is a 89 toyota camry. The salesperson is going to curse me ;).


LK

[LPMiller]

Or you can just go to a pawn shop and pick up some really nice rings for nothing. Because that's what they are worth.

[Cantacuzene]

The only thing I have to say is that when you look at where the majority of money is coming from to the west african rebels who are butchering people, its from diamonds. It may not be the sole source of their money, but its definitly the chief finacier of their murders. That said, if you can sleep at night knowing that at least some % of your purchase went to having someone's head chopped off with a machete then thats your own decision, but I wouldn't belittle people who choose not to support that.

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
The only thing I have to say is that when you look at where the majority of money is coming from to the west african rebels who are butchering people, its from diamonds. It may not be the sole source of their money, but its definitly the chief finacier of their murders. That said, if you can sleep at night knowing that at least some % of your purchase went to having someone's head chopped off with a machete then thats your own decision, but I wouldn't belittle people who choose not to support that.


There is a lot of things in life that cause the death of others. Do you wear clothes? I am sure some people died while manufacturing those clothes, or they get paid a fraction of what a person in the US would get paid.

Not ALL diamonds come from Africa. Australia, Russia, and Canada are now the top 3 diamond producers in the world.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2619663.stm


It is interesting that less than 5% of diamonds are even remotely connected to "blood diamonds". That number has been reducing due to the fact that more countries that are non-african are coming online.

So dont get your holier than thou attitude about diamonds saying that I should feel guilty. Those "blood diamonds" are more a product of the countries civil wars than anything.


As far as pawn shop diamonds go, almost everything at a pawn shop is cheaper, that is the nature of a pawn shop. While they do reduce a lot of the overhead, they also are selling used stuff. Most people, as my fiance puts it, do not want to buy somebody else's failed marriage.


LK

[ski]

I agree with a lot of what you've said in this previous post LK, but clothes are more of a necessity than a ring. While you an choose to get a different stone, you can choose to be a nudist, but you will have a hard time finding work (unless you're handsome and chiseled) :naughty:

[coleslaw]

Where are the best places to find diamonds for cheap(er) prices? Obviously, you don't want to go to a mall jeweler. Wholesalers? Brokers?

Please advise. :)

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by coleslaw
Please advise. :)

Just look in your pirate booty. :hihi:

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by coleslaw
Where are the best places to find diamonds for cheap(er) prices? Obviously, you don't want to go to a mall jeweler. Wholesalers? Brokers?

Please advise. :)


I went to a mall store. Why? Because they are MUCH more willing to bargain, which I love that game.

For example. I went to a diamond exchange down here in miami and another where I live. There are about 100-200 owners, brokers, and exchange people. I found a couple stones I wanted mounted on the ring my fiance wanted. However, they were ALL about 150-200 more than what I had bargained at Kay jewelers.

The difference is that you need to have the ability to sit down at a mall jeweler and set a goal. That goal can be the 100 bucks below anything you find. Start off with a lowball and work your way up to a more reasonable price.

I found another exchange in Orlando and I am still finding that the ring I got is the best deal I have found. Sure, I could have gone to europe and found something cheaper, but I dont have the time.


LK

[Merlin]

4. Diamond Miners are Disproportionately Exposed to HIV/AIDS
Many diamond mining camps enforce all-male, no-family rules. Men contract HIV/AIDS from camp sex-workers, while women married to miners have no access to employment, no income outside of their husbands and no bargaining power for negotiating safe sex, and thus are at extremely high risk of contracting HIV.

AIDS is a tremendous epidemic in Africa, both inside the mines and out. And I think it has more to do with the dynamic of the workers (miners are mostly male for obvious reasons) than with the mining companies. i.e. a problem of adverse selection. :shrug: Moreover, I've actually met with people who operate mines in Africa and AIDS is a big problem for them. Just think what it would doto your workforce if you had people dropping that often. You would get nothing done. So they are actually doing what they can to prevent the spread of AIDS. Things like worker education, condoms etc.

[Memo]

Originally posted by le_stick
Supply and Demand!!!!

If nobody want diamonds then they are just another piece of rocks, and this also apply to everything. My 2 cents

Oligopolies aren't free markets :)

[Merlin]

Sure they are. You are still free not to buy. :shrug: