Debating to buy a Mac or not.

[nhbilly]

hope this is the right section of the forum to post this.

I need some question answer before I can put hard earn money into a Mac when I can get 10x more from a PC.

Questions:

1. Will Apple change there CPU anytime soon? Say will they use AMD or Intel?

2. And why the hell do they cost so much?

3. What can Mac do that Pc cannot do?
Beside page layout and printing nicely



thanks,
nhbilly

[glagic]

im not an apple person...but i dont think theyre ever going to use amd or intel. they make their own line from what i understand, and they just came out with the G5, so it should be here for a while. i know macs are a lot more stable than pcs when it comes to the os. its a lot more flashy too. if i had the money and didnt buy a dell laptop over the summer, id probably buy a powerbook....i dont know...all personal preference. anyone that knows about apple be free to correct me. my info is all from what i read

[eSDee]

G5 should be around for a while.

They cost so much partly because they are the only manufacturer. Everyone and their mom is a PC hardware manufacturer and more manufacturers naturally means lower prices.

Most people buy Macs if they are into multimedia such as video editing and dvd creation, for the Mac has superior software to perform these tasks. Another reason that lots of people in the IT field get Macs is because the latest operating system (OSX) is built on a Unix kernel. This means not only a more stable OS but also gives you access to many of the tools that you normally have with Unix. Yet another reason why Macs are attracting users is that before, many software companies did not target the Mac. However now there are more and more applications coming out for the Mac and some of them are pretty incredible. A couple of examples are iTunes and iPhoto. Both of these apps are free with the purchase of the OS.

All that said, if you are a gamer then don't get a Mac.

[nhbilly]

I am not getting this for me. It is for my gf. She is an art major and deals with alot of graphics and movie editing. I built her a P4 that can handle all the task that a Mac can do but a lil bit faster and cheaper too.

And she asked for a Mac. I can afford it but the bang for the bucks is not there for a Mac.

anyways I guess I will sell her G4 800mhz system to get a PowerBook

[ribitch]

Originally posted by nhbilly

And she asked for a Mac. I can afford it but the bang for the bucks is not there for a Mac.

Upfront cost may be more, but look on ebay for older systems (any powermac g4 or cube), and you will find that the going cost for a old mac is much much more than a pc. Apple systems retain their resale value very well.

if shes looking to use a computer for artistic purposes, then a mac is definitely the way to go. Most companies that employe graphic designers or video editors usually use macs.

as far as gaming goes, pc is king. i have played Unreals 2k4 oon my system and it runs great, but i am assuming it runs better on a pc.

[Jeffbx]

Originally posted by nhbilly
1. Will Apple change there CPU anytime soon? Say will they use AMD or Intel?

No - they have invested a lot in their platform. If they ever make a switch, it will be to a single vendor & the switchover will be universal. I doubt you'd ever see Apple running on multiple architectures.



2. And why the hell do they cost so much?

A couple of reasons - first, they have a captive audience in several areas. There is a group of people who are religious about the Mac and would never buy anything else. There is also the education market (that MS is stupid to ignore) - Apple gives a lot of machines & discounts to schools, and this entices the teachers & students to get their own (you buy what you know about). The third captive audience is the graphics design field. Back in the day (maybe 5-10 years ago), there was no better platform to do graphic design than the Mac. PC is now able to do essentially the same at a lower cost, but the industry is now used to the Macs. Some shops have converted to PC, but many still standardize on Macs.

Second reason is that Apple holds their software & hardware VERY close... you may notice that no one makes Apple clones, and no other OSs (with the exception of some open source stuff in the fringes) will run on a Mac. This prevents the mass marketing & production that drove PC prices way way down (but also stripped IBM of the exclusive market on PCs).



3. What can Mac do that Pc cannot do?
Beside page layout and printing nicely


The case design is WAY better than 99% of PC manufacturers. Other than that, there's not mutch of an advantage to getting a Mac over a PC unless you fit into one of the captive audiences I mentioned above. Or unless you want an alternative to MS without having to learn LINUX.

[Bires]

Originally posted by Jeffbx
There is also the education market (that MS is stupid to ignore) - Apple gives a lot of machines & discounts to schools, and this entices the teachers & students to get their own (you buy what you know about).

Not any more. Dell has more than 85% market share for active computers in public schools. I haven't seen an apple being used on a daily basis in a public school since about 1999. There are still a few powerbooks that teachers have bought personally, but they are not supported on our network, and most of the teachers that have them wish they had bought a WinXP notebook.

[InfiniteNothing]

You've opened the box of worms. BTW I've been able to get on almost any network. Are they running 10.3? Have you tried command K?

What can you do on a Mac that you can't do on a PC? Lots. Namely good 3D graphics and movie editing. There's lots of little things really (Adaptive junk mail filtering, exposé). But honestly it's not about that. I tried going PC. As many people know I built my own and it's reasonably fast. But it just doesn't feel right anymore. I couldn't do it; It's cumbersome to use. Where speed matters most to me is the time it takes me to get stuff done. On a mac everything is at your fingertips; just a few clicks away. The finder is revamped for speed, the address book is easy to use, ICal color codes your events. Just lots of stuff that comes free.

[nhbilly]

I guess I have no choice but to buy a very nice powwerbook :-D

I can sit home and take care of the kids while my wife works ;)

[InfiniteNothing]

Safari is very stable and it has tabbed browsing that is simple to use. Also bookmarks are so nice.

[nhbilly]

My gf is good at what she does and using both system will give her an advantage in the job market.

Sucks that I will have to look at something that cost more than the 2 PC system I have + my laptop.

oh well.........

[caribiner23]

Originally posted by Bires


Not any more. Dell has more than 85% market share for active computers in public schools. I haven't seen an apple being used on a daily basis in a public school since about 1999.

Seriously? Most of the public school districts I've worked with in the Chicago suburbs are entirely Mac. Brand, spankin' new Macs at that.

Where did you get the 85% number? I'm not disputing the fact that Dell has a presence, but that number seems awfully high.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by DarkFury
nhbilly... pretty much the questions you probably need to be asking yourself is... "What am I going to be using the computer for?"

If you are only going to be using "application software" like Office and/or playing games, then a PC is probably gonna be your best bet from a cost standpoint. Apple software is inherently more expensive than PC software (probably due to the licensing issues and the smaller user base)

However, if you are into journalism/art/drafting or any other "multimedia" application, then a Mac might be your choice... since they seem to excel in those areas.

However, honestly I will always be a PC fan regardless... it does what I need it to do at the costs I want to pay. I can build it myself an not have to worry about getting permission from Mr. Case to do anything. :D


But now as I look at the replies in this thread.. I see that the decision has been made. Oh well.. it should work out just fine for you if those are the needs you want addressed.

Office (Student/Teacher edition) Pricing:
Office for mac: $125.00
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005O1GE/qid=1078944013/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/104-3517998-8779932?v=glance&s=software

Office for Win: $140.00
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000C0XT1/qid=1078943878/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-3517998-8779932


Office Pro
Office Mac: $349.99
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005O1GE/qid=1078944230/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-3517998-8779932?v=glance&s=software

Office Win: $429.99
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000AZJVC/qid=1078943878/sr=2-3/ref=sr_2_3/104-3517998-8779932

Quark is the same
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=dp_sr_00/002-2080519-0776864


Unreal 2004 is cheaper on mac:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dsoftware%26field-keywords%3Dunreal%2525202004%26store-name%3Dsoftware/002-2080519-0776864

Virtual PC (no included OS pack) PC is $10 cheaper
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dsoftware%26field-keywords%3Dvirtual%252520pc%26store-name%3Dsoftware/002-2080519-0776864

Quickbooks (2004 and 6.0) is the same:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dsoftware%26field-browse%3D229534%26search-type%3Dss%26field-keywords%3Dquickbooks%20pro%26/qid=1078961951/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4_etk-software_all/002-2080519-0776864

Halo is the same:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dsoftware%26field-browse%3D229534%26search-type%3Dss%26field-keywords%3Dhalo%26/qid=1078962056/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3_etk-software_all/002-2080519-0776864

Turbotax deluxe (PC is $9 cheaper) must add to cart for pricing:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dsoftware%26field-browse%3D229534%26search-type%3Dss%26field-keywords%3Dturbotax%202003%26/qid=1078962125/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4_etk-software_all/002-2080519-0776864

Norton AV ($6 cheaper on mac after windows $20 upgrade rebate)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dsoftware%26field-keywords%3Dnorton%252520antivirus%26store-name%3Dsoftware/002-2080519-0776864

most common app suite is actually cheaper.
includes word excel powerpoint outlook (entourage on mac)

Adobe CS pricing should be similar between platforms. Same with macromedia apps. Pricing for software typically runs the same. I have never had to pay an "Apple Tax" like you had suggested.

Apple also has many applications that are free that would cost more on a PC. iLife 04 is great and is free on any new mac.


education is mixed right now. reports are coming out every other quarter or so that conflict. One will say dell has the edge, and some other report will find apple has the edge. Dell may have 85% of windows based systems, but i doubt overall market.

I read in business week or some similar site that apple has 20%+ of the portable marketshare in education and is making great progress. They also have found that in Maine and some other place that an all iBook program increases test scores and reduces drop out rates. I will post a link when i refind it.

found it:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005O1GE/qid=1078944230/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-3517998-8779932?v=glance&s=software

edit:
added more comparisons that I know has apps on both platforms.

edit#2:
To be fair, Office pro on mac doesnt have access. MS did not develop access for OS X.

[ribitch]

i gave both student and retail links, to avoid those complaints. many people here will end up with the student version.

PS7 has been replaced with PS CS (8.0). The adobe CS suite is identically priced at most, if not all resellers. Adobe has the MSRP set at the same price. Most people buying PS pay for the suite since its not too much more moeny for several additional apps that are needed by the people who require the software.

Systemworks is an app that most people do not need. I have heard many mac users who avoid it at all costs.

[InfiniteNothing]

Originally posted by ribitch
i gave both student and retail links, to avoid those complaints. many people here will end up with the student version.

PS7 has been replaced with PS CS (8.0). The adobe CS suite is identically priced at most, if not all resellers. Adobe has the MSRP set at the same price. Most people buying PS pay for the suite since its not too much more moeny for several additional apps that are needed by the people who require the software.

Systemworks 7.0 is an app that most people do not need. I have heard many mac users who avoid it at all costs.

Hmm. So what do they use to defrag their computers. I've been avoiding Systemworks 7 too.

[ribitch]

most people using system works for mac use Disk Doctor, Norton AV, and the firewall.

You dont need to defrag a mac like you have to with a pc. Apple has implemented on the fly defragging in the OS on files under 20MB. The last time i tried to use Systemworks for mac to defrag, it corrupted the filesystem. I was able to repair it with diskwarrior, but i kinda freaked out since it had gigs of unbacked up data.

[Maarchk]

I would say in terms of just art and graphics.
Top of the line mac is better then top of the line pc.
But i dont know if you want to shell that much money out. And as ribitch says, macs retain value, so if you want an almost top of the line computer for a lot less, go PC.

The only other way i would say go for mac is if she feels a mac is a must have, or if you want to go lap top. That's where i think the mac stability really shines. Although my office has had a run of bad laptops that have all had to go to the shop. But hopefully they are cleanning that up.

Good luck either way and let us know how it goes.:thumb:


p.s. just trying to be helpful, please dont shoot me. Can't we all just get a long?:cheers:

[Bires]

Originally posted by caribiner23
Where did you get the 85% number? I'm not disputing the fact that Dell has a presence, but that number seems awfully high.

NEA survey. Almost all new labs are being built with Dells now. Their 280 (or 820...the tiny little things) are selling like hotcakes to high and middle schools.

[eSDee]

Bires so is that elementary and high school? I would be curious to the ratio of Macs to PC in University environment. At my University, Macs are just barely in the lead.

[kimchicowboy]

i'd say that a majority of computer at UCLA were dells. only in the library and specialized depts (i.e. graphic design) were macs used. in all the other computer labs, i've only seen dell or PCs.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by DarkFury
You do have a "MAC" answer for everything don'tcha.... :hehehmm:




Go head... with your mac self... :2far:

:D

[InfiniteNothing]

Originally posted by ribitch
most people using system works for mac use Disk Doctor, Norton AV, and the firewall.

You dont need to defrag a mac like you have to with a pc. Apple has implemented on the fly defragging in the OS on files under 20MB. The last time i tried to use Systemworks for mac to defrag, it corrupted the filesystem. I was able to repair it with diskwarrior, but i kinda freaked out since it had gigs of unbacked up data.

But I like watching the little blockies moving around

[nhbilly]

thanks alot for the info........

[Bires]

Originally posted by eSDeeLoco
Bires so is that elementary and high school?
Mainly secondary education (middle/high). I don't recal if elementary were involved.

[Showtime]

Apple rules. Inhell clones are for sheep!

Bahhhhh!

-jel:halo:

[DankNstickY]

i drool over macs too, df. you should too.

:P

[ribitch]

Originally posted by DarkFury
Apple drools... Just watch out for THE WORM!!! :eek:


:pfft:

:hihi:

worms, i thought only windows got them? :D

[yippiekiyeh]

Macs are cool macs are neat, if only they played all games they couldn't be beat!

Anyway, it's pretty much the case and point. There was a time where 99.9% of the time I was using my Mac for everything. But since many of the games that I enjoy playing aren't even out for the mac, I can only say, my entertainment is derived from my PC. Oh well, one day if more games came out for the mac, I'll return to using my mac more full time again and I wouldn't have to deal with my PC for games anymore.

[bigmontana]

Originally posted by nhbilly
hope this is the right section of the forum to post this.

I need some question answer before I can put hard earn money into a Mac when I can get 10x more from a PC.

Questions:

1. Will Apple change there CPU anytime soon? Say will they use AMD or Intel?

2. And why the hell do they cost so much?

3. What can Mac do that Pc cannot do?
Beside page layout and printing nicely

thanks,
nhbilly

1) Already did that, dumped motorola for IBM
2) Proprietary, don't license it out to anyone else, they did at one time and the companies that made them charged hlf as much as Apple did do Apple bought the two of them.
3) Not much really, anything that can be done on a Mac can be done on a PC but faster, right now anyways.

Only thing Apple does better are their displays,,if I could afford to throw down 2500 on a monitor I would buy one of the Apple Cinema Displays, they are sweet.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by bigmontana


1) Already did that, dumped motorola for IBM
2) Proprietary, don't license it out to anyone else, they did at one time and the companies that made them charged hlf as much as Apple did do Apple bought the two of them.
3) Not much really, anything that can be done on a Mac can be done on a PC but faster, right now anyways.

Only thing Apple does better are their displays,,if I could afford to throw down 2500 on a monitor I would buy one of the Apple Cinema Displays, they are sweet.

1. Motorola hasnt been completly dumped yet. Apple has also been a IBM customer for years. The G3 CPU is an IBM CPU and the G4 is a Motorola CPU. The new G5 systems are now IBM. Apples shipping systems use both IBM and Motorola components.

2. Closed OS is one thing. System design is another. The G5 cases cost around $500. Thats a big portion of the price. Apple also has standardized hardware across the model line. You dont get the "whatever we can get cheapest today" components that some PC manufacturers use. PC makers are getting better at that though and allow users to pick and choose more, so they know what they are getting.

3. This is totally arguable. Games usually run faster on a PC. Video editting is typically better on a mac. Photoshop benchmarks can be skewed to either platform. With todays speeds, the average user will see near the same performance between the 2 platforms. There is little wait if any on most consumer apps. So it comes down to the user. Mac users say they are more productive on their mac. As an exPC user, I became more productive when i went to macs. More productive can mean doing a given task faster. Does this make the system faster? In most cases its due to the fact that something can be done in less steps on their mac when compared to a windows machine.