is this offensive?

[Freelance Superhero]

so i've been sent this picture by a few people today, and apparently there's an uproar over this purportedly racist piece in Details magazine. here is the page straight from the mag:
http://www.koarecords.com/details_asian.jpg

and here is the petition going around to boycott details magazine and so forth:
http://www.petitiononline.com/details4/petition.html

i would like your thoughts on this, whether you are asian or not. oh, and if this belongs in the political forum, i apologize, but it didn't seem exactly political...

[molecularfire]

I don't find it offensive, but then, I've actually been in situations where I've asked myself a similiar question. In my case, it was whether certain guys are affeminate (sp?) or whether they were just asian. :)

[ialsohaveadream]

I'm not offended. Of course, I love racial humor. Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle are two of my favorite comics, and a lot of their material centers on racial differences and stereotypes.

The difference here is that the Details article is less funny.

[mixer107]

Yeah, the article isn't even funny. Maybe that's why some people find it offensive.

[yippiekiyeh]

Gosh it boils down to that fashion statement Gay or HK?

:shrug:

[kimchicowboy]

would this be metrosexual?

[oblongmelon]

any asian would have the right to be offended-unless it was written for an asian, by an asian...just like we italians don't mind WOP jokes as long as they come from Petey,Paulie, Joey, Vinnie, Sal or Calogero..
the thing with that ad is it's not even FUNNY. :hmm:

[ShawnLee]

No, FOBs are generally pretty gay. Oblong, I think you're wrong on this. If an asian guy like me, who doesn't dress or act like a homo, makes fun of these guys, it's not the same thing. Race is not the ONLY factor in dealing with identity. That said, is it wrong? Yes. Is it accurate? Very.

[oblongmelon]

Originally posted by ShawnLee105
No, FOBs are generally pretty gay. Oblong, I think you're wrong on this. If an asian guy like me, who doesn't dress or act like a homo, makes fun of these guys, it's not the same thing. Race is not the ONLY factor in dealing with identity. That said, is it wrong? Yes. Is it accurate? Very.
I wish I understood one word of what you just said :confused:
but i definately think i said they would HAVE THE RIGHT to be upset...not that all asians WOULD BE-OR SHOULD BE.

[ShawnLee]

Originally posted by oblongmelon
I wish I understood one word of what you just said :confused:
but i definately think i said they would HAVE THE RIGHT to be upset...not that all asians WOULD BE-OR SHOULD BE.

Let me translate my English to regular English.

"This was stupid, but not really that offensive."

[HmpDeeHmp]

Nah, this wasn't offensive. As an Asian, I think the controversial Abercrombie t-shirts that made fun of Chinese people a lil while back would be considered offensive.

[bachviet]

It might be true because of Asian culture but you can't compare that to gay. Don't hate 'cauze you can't afford. :shrug:

[Leebo]

Originally posted by ShawnLee105
No, FOBs are generally pretty gay.

I found that more offensive than the actualy ad.

As for the ad.... He's metro sexual.:eek:

[ShawnLee]

Originally posted by Leebo
I found that more offensive than the actualy ad.

Since this seems to be my day for pissing people off, I'm just going to make life easier and go on a self imposed timeout for a week. I'll lurk, but not post until Saturday, April 3, thus depriving myself of all sorts of fun April Fools posts. And let me close this off by speaking for others that are undoubtedly reading this:

Good riddance, it's about time he shutup.

[JaQnAbOx]

Its odd that they question the sexuality of asian men. As far as i know there are very few homosexual asian males...im even from the bay area! If the asian culture very little homosexual males then why even question if a guy is gay or asian? is it because asian men dont go around dirty wearing wife beaters and soiled jeans that we are considered gay?

[molecularfire]

I don't know if it's so much that there are few homosexual asian men or that they are all in the closet. Our society isn't exactly very tolerant of homosexuals. Heck, I don't even tell my parents that I live near the gay community.

[yo]

I actually find it kind of offensive. They're comparing not whether the guy is hetero vs homo sexual, but its homosexual vs asian? And then they make all these statements about that guy like if he wears a certain pair of jeans it will make his 'bonsai ass' in need of some trimming or something unfunny. I agree with JaQnAbOx that just because a certain group of asian guys dress up then they're subjected to being gay or not.

Now if they did the same thing with another race...??

[RoniMan]

Originally posted by molecularfire
I don't know if it's so much that there are few homosexual asian men or that they are all in the closet. Our society isn't exactly very tolerant of homosexuals. Heck, I don't even tell my parents that I live near the gay community.

:stupid: the older generation is highly discriminatory, but it's SLLLOOWWWWLLLY changing, but yeah, i don't tell my mom which one of my friends is gay...

now, as for the ad...i don't even understand it to find it offensive.
:shrug:

[Windsor]

I say its a compliment more than anything else, if you extrapolate a bit like...gay=good dresser, Asian=good dresser which =? gay? Not really sure what they were going for, I guess they just figured that Asian men dress well so they could be confused for homosexual.

It really doesn't make too much sense if you think about it, I would say he's a metrosexual or fashionable guy.

But no, not offensive to me.

[ArkiStan]

The list is in fact compiled with somewhat derogatory terms here and there, but I believe the nature if this article is subjective. To distill the very essence of the ad's statement, the "attempted" humor is based on the assumption that Asians and gay people have a lot in common when it comes to their fashion. Whether or not this article is offensive may well hinge on the readers' views on homosexuality.

1. An Asian who hates "homos" may be deeply offended.

2. On the other hand, an Asian who accepts homosexuals may be proud to be parelleled with their chic appearances.

3. And of course, regardless of one's views on homosexuality, he/she may simply be offended by the fact that the article is stereotyping a certain ethnic/demographic group. In this case, anybody, regardless of their race, ethnicicty, or sexual orientation, may be offended.


I'd hope that most of the petitioners would fall into category 3. However, it seems like many fall into category 1:


6330. Ian - What the heck!? "Gay or Asian?" Is that supposed to be a complement?! WTF?!!!!!

3642. Yuan Niu - There's nothing funny about this, and there's so much offensive about it. To equate gay with asian - what the hell is that supposed to mean?

3636. pocahontas - i kinda chuckled while reading this, this guy is pretty flaming

6724. Triet Lee (AZN BOI) - people who think asians are gay, is ignorance because they dont' have the skillzz like us..fuk y'all

[Leebo]

Originally posted by ShawnLee105


Since this seems to be my day for pissing people off, I'm just going to make life easier and go on a self imposed timeout for a week. I'll lurk, but not post until Saturday, April 3, thus depriving myself of all sorts of fun April Fools posts. And let me close this off by speaking for others that are undoubtedly reading this:

Good riddance, it's about time he shutup.

Aww dont' leave... Not offended i was just "more" offended... You're entitled to your own opinion it's a forums for crying out loud. Don't sweat it. No feelings hurt. If someone got really pipped... then we'd chase ya down and beat ya...:eek:

well not really.

[tweeteresa]

i didn't find it funny nor offensive. just thought it was stupid actually. there shouldn't be a comparison for that at all. as for a large asian gay population, u might be surprised. there is a good number, but i'd say most of them are closet or not very public about it.

[gear02]

I didn't find it offensive, but I can see why it is.

The odd thing I find is that if that was a black or latino guy there would be major uproar. It seems to be acceptable to stereotype asians (i.e. everyone is smart and friendly, etc).

Oh and if that was a white guy, it would be acceptable as well since white guys are always stereotyped somehow...

[Leebo]

It's probably also in part cause asians are (for the most part) quiet and keep to themselves. Being raised in a traditional asian family is like not being able to share about how things make you feel.

It's usually school and work and that's it. Oh you're sad about something? Too bad!

[speedracer120]

Ah. Why is it that way? It doesn't even have to be that way, but it seems we all grow up thinking the same thing. I'm not even sure if it's adults mention, or wheter the children infer such ideas from different situations.

[kei2]

Originally posted by ArkiStan
3. And of course, regardless of one's views on homosexuality, he/she may simply be offended by the fact that the article is stereotyping a certain ethnic/demographic group. In this case, anybody, regardless of their race, ethnicicty, or sexual orientation, may be offended.I'm a straight Asian male that is category-#3-offended. The ad is stupid and lacking in humor, just generally in bad taste. As a sidenote, the Abercrombie shirts somebody mentioned I also find offensive/racist. Racism against Asians and Asian Americans simply isn't taken as seriously as racism against certain other groups. As many of you will recall, Shaq's racist statements toward Yao Ming were largely glossed over and underemphasized by major television networks... that one LPGA golfer's anti-Asian statement was embraced by a large percentage of people... America may have come a long way in the past few decades, but there's still a long way to go.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by kei2
... that one LPGA golfer's anti-Asian statement ...

Which one was that? I must have missed it.

[gear02]

Originally posted by ArkiStan


Which one was that? I must have missed it.

One of the old hags said that the koreans are ruining the game because they don't speak english and are too good for her.

heh, it was pretty bad.

And Shaq's was worse. I don't know how everyone treats his comment as a harmless joke. I got that "joke" in 11th grade from a passing truck while I was walking down the road.

[speedracer120]

Yeah, well I got that kind of joke along with a face full of spit from a passing school bus in the 12th grade. So freaking hilarious. :angry: :mad:

[gear02]

Originally posted by speedracer120
Yeah, well I got that kind of joke along with a face full of spit from a passing school bus in the 12th grade. So freaking hilarious. :angry: :mad:

sorry dude...

these are the few times I wish I had a sniper rifle...it would have been fun to pick the guy off as he was driving away...

must stop playing UT now :D

[molecularfire]

Racism against Asians and Asian Americans simply isn't taken as seriously as racism against certain other groups.
It's an issue of the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Asians (I am referring to southeast asians and indians) don't complain make as big a deal about these things, so it isn't in people's minds as much. Personally, I don't care if asians complain or not. As a group, we are doing very well moving up the food chain. I think for this generation, we are doing better than the other ethnicity groups who do more complaining. I don't think that our way is necessarily better, it's just yielded better results in this generation. JMO.

[Showtime]

Silver shoes... nuff said.

-jel:halo:

[tupacboy]

i find it offensive... i mean gay or asian? wtf... i'm asian... so does that mean everyone that sees me thinks i'm gay?

[Showtime]

Originally posted by tupacboy
i find it offensive... i mean gay or asian? wtf... i'm asian... so does that mean everyone that sees me thinks i'm gay?

Do you wear silver shoes and carry a purse?

;)

-jel:halo:

[StonedWheat]

My cousin looks like the guy in the article. I think this article could either be really offensive, or be really funny. I think it's rather funny since it's partially true.

Why are asian males so passive and effeminate anyways? Even the title of this thread asks a question instead of making a statement.

[speedracer120]

It's because we can't make waves. We need to save face. And the easiest way to save face is to make no noise.

[Freelance Superhero]

first generation born-in-the-motherland asian males seem more effeminate because over there, that kind of behavior isn't necessarily frowned upon. the dynamics of the culture are very different from here, in the good ol cattle-rustlin, truck-drivin, football-playin U.S. of A.

on the flipside of that tho, many american-born asian males i've either known or met have almost an excess of testosterone (or some sorta fiery sumthin inside), like they've got something to prove to the rest of the world (country?).

so i'd have to conclude that the magazine article in question and StonedWheat's (ahem) "keen" observation ("Why are asian males so passive and effeminate?") refer more to the immigrant population of asians.

of course, there's also the "metrosexual" crowd that someone else already alluded to, but come on, every race and ethnicity's got their fair share of said "metrosexuals", those guys who like to use hair care products, sport designer threads, and hit up all the trendy clubs, apple martini in hand.

therefore, altho the piece didn't really bother me THAT much, the offense as i see it comes in the form of: [1] suggesting that "all asian males are ______ (fill in the blank)", particularly effeminate; and [2] using shameless asian pop culture stereotypes (sushi, wax on-wax off, bonsai, etc; almost all of which were japanese, btw) merely for the purpose of making the rather unclever bullet-point descriptions somehow more relevant to the article.

bottom line, the author is absolutely clueless, embarassingly tactless, and to top it all off, really is not a very good writer at all.

just my 2c

[kei2]

Originally posted by StonedWheat
I think it's rather funny since it's partially true.
Why are asian males so passive and effeminate anyways?Way to buy into the stereotypes, Stoned. And I assure you, your sweeping generalization that all Asian males are passive and effeminate is unfounded. I'm 100% Asian male and I don't fit the mental cookie cutter you've set up.

[StonedWheat]

I'm just saying that it's partially true. Most stereotypes are true to some degree. There are plenty of stereotypes that aren't negative, but of course people don't get pissed off about those. Japanese people are extremely self-disciplined. Chinese people are good at math. I think stereotypes come about because there are enough instances of them happening, or certain things are outstanding enough that stereotypes are formed.

I can think of so many asian guys, in my own family too, that are pretty boys, but I can think of just as many that are straight gangsters. Of course there are a lot of inbetweens too. Yeah you're right kei, the article is a sweeping generalization, but I still think it's kinda funny. My guy cousins shop and spend more time in the bathroom more than any girl I know.

[eSDee]

Originally posted by molecularfire

It's an issue of the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Asians (I am referring to southeast asians and indians) don't complain make as big a deal about these things, so it isn't in people's minds as much. Personally, I don't care if asians complain or not. As a group, we are doing very well moving up the food chain. I think for this generation, we are doing better than the other ethnicity groups who do more complaining. I don't think that our way is necessarily better, it's just yielded better results in this generation. JMO.

Having money is a great way to "move up the food chain".

[molecularfire]

Yeah, money helps. So does education, and the willingness to delay gratification for long term gains. I think that asians culture tends to support this more than the cultures of most other ethnicities and I think that helps. On the down side, we as a group do not complain about things as much as other ethnicities, and that probably does hurt us as a group a little. However, given that trade-off, I am perfectly happy with the way our culture works.