Your opinion please...

[brainsmile]

Ok ... most of you know that I'm a professor here in southern california. So today I get a message from a student who just got a non-passing grade in my class which is basically filled with profanity and semi-threats. What should I do?

I already contacted him that this was NOT the best way to get any chance to improve upon that grade. That option is now dead. Other than that I gave him the option to apologize (within 24 hours) formally for his email in writing or I would be forced to hand the letter over to the Dean, School President, Chancellor, and Campus Police.

This will most likely result in his suspension from the campus indefinitely or even possibly expulsion.

Honestly with the temper of this individual, I wouldn't be surprised if he sought some kind of violent response.

So what should I do?

[ray]

Take it up with your supervisors. If you really feel physically threatened, perhaps your school can assign a campus police officer to escort you to your car at night or when it's dark out...sounds like the kid has more issues than his grades...

[DarkFury]

Yup... let the authorities handle it.

There is no reason for any student to resort to violence over a grade... although honestly, I have had some teachers in the past that would make you think aobut it. :hihi:

[tupacboy]

yeah take it immediatly to your supervisors....

[CornMonkey]

brainsmile, where do you teach?

[Cheesypuff]

with a question like that...I think cornmonkey is that student :shifty:

[Memo]

As much as I'd like to say that you should give the student a chance to apologize, I'm going to have to agree with the rest and say you should consult with superiors. There is reason for a student to threaten a professor for a grade which he deserved. Especially not a G|A member :boxing:!


Unless it's RoniMans' brother (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75594)

[brainsmile]

Honestly I don't know what they thought they would gain from such a tirade. he's not a child being in his 20s

[RoniMan]

Unless it's RoniMans' brother (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75594)

lol....oh wait.... :shifty:

[ufcrusher]

Print it out and send a hard copy to the powers that be. Then email the student alerting him to the fact that his actions have been reported to the powers that be and CC them. Or you can skip the last part and just alert the powers that be....they will handle it and you wont personally incite the crazy student. Then I would make sure that HE DOESNT know what you drive or where you live.

[revil]

I saw the title to this thread and immeadiatly thought, "dudechat? what the f*ck?"

[eSDee]

Honestly I don't know what they thought they would gain from such a tirade. he's not a child being in his 20s

Call him to your office and I'll take care of it ;) Just kidding man I'm sorry to hear about that. If he doesn't apologize then I would report it to the Dean. They'll undoubtedly elevate it to the proper people.

Good luck to you buddy.

[brainsmile]

I saw the title to this thread and immeadiatly thought, "dudechat? what the f*ck?":bonk:

Hey Revil... I made this web site with a great discussion and radio show. Come listen and give me an honest opinion :P

[ialsohaveadream]

:bonk:

Hey Revil... I made this web site with a great discussion and radio show. Come listen and give me an honest opinion :P

Yeah, so I checked out your radio show...what is it, some kind of show for "feygs"? :)

Make sure you report the letter to your supervisors and others. I've watched too many episodes of Law & Order to know that without doing that, you're only making it harder on the detectives.

[faither]

Notify your department chairperson and hand it over to campus security.

Something tells me he'll learn more from this experience than he seemed to take away from your class.

[zenbooty]

Do what everyone else says. Report it to campus security, police, etc.

Then get yourself some mace. Or a tazer, or whatever makes you feel safer. Let the proper security people handle pursuit of this situation, but make sure you're capable of protecting yourself.

[Kim]

Be safe!

[gear02]

i don't think you should email back the student saying you've told the authorities. That'll just either piss him off even more or get scared and apologize. However, if you don't tell him that, he'll just sit and wait, and when contacted by the police or the dean he'll get scared, so you might as well let the authorities handle it and avoid escalating the issue.

Just make sure your "authorities" take this seriously and do something about it.

[Kevster]

Like everyone else has stated - consult your department chair, college dean and the campus police on this. This is no way for a responsible adult to act and sending this kind of threatening message is definitely grounds for dismissal.

Remember about 7 or 8 years ago that So. Cal mechanical engineering graduate student that shot and killed a couple professors when they would not pass him for the oral defense of his graduate thesis?

[bachviet]

:stupid:

[revil]

I suggest mocking and provoking the student without telling anyone.

[brainsmile]

Like everyone else has stated - consult your department chair, college dean and the campus police on this. This is no way for a responsible adult to act and sending this kind of threatening message is definitely grounds for dismissal.

Remember about 7 or 8 years ago that So. Cal mechanical engineering graduate student that shot and killed a couple professors when they would not pass him for the oral defense of his graduate thesis?Oh great... :gle: :rolleyes: :boxing:

[oblongmelon]

well I certainly wouldn't have any more contact with the student-next thing you know he'll be saying you propositioned him or something...never be alone in a room with him OR any of his friends-EVER. Make NUMEROUS copies of the letter AND his grades and turn a set over to the Dean. You're there to teach-not protect and serve.

[Cubsfan]

Let us know what the "powers that be" say

[brainsmile]

well I contacted my dean (who of course is in a meeting) :rolleyes: and I'm sure he'll get back to me so we can discuss this

[jstreet]

well I contacted my dean (who of course is in a meeting) :rolleyes: and I'm sure he'll get back to me so we can discuss this

Good luck. I work for George Washington University in DC, and the punishment here would almost certainly be expulsion, with suspension only as an option if there were mitigating circumstances. Both as a student and a staff member, I'd be the first to say he would deserve it.

[guiseppewv]

well I contacted my dean (who of course is in a meeting) :rolleyes: and I'm sure he'll get back to me so we can discuss this


I take it the student did not apoligize?

[oblongmelon]

Good luck. I work for George Washington University in DC, and the punishment here would almost certainly be expulsion, with suspension only as an option if there were mitigating circumstances. Both as a student and a staff member, I'd be the first to say he would deserve it.


OOOO do you go to the Graduation Gala at Union Station? I had such a GRAND TIME at that when I went!!! ......I've never seen anything like it in my entire life. :)

[brainsmile]

I take it the student did not apoligize?
not yet... he has till 9PM PST

[guiseppewv]

not yet... he has till 9PM PST

Keep us posted. I am curious to know how this is going to work out. For their sake I hope they apoligize.

[Nija]

I say meet the kid.

bring mase, and do it in public.

Then after he explains his case, make your decision.

Or just spray mace at his eyes, and then poop on him once his falls down...

[brainsmile]

Keep us posted. I am curious to know how this is going to work out. For their sake I hope they apoligize.well I can't disclose much more than the basics and I don't think I will advertise the outcome of it but I'll try to keep you appraised of the situation to the best of my abilities.

[DaFunkyUnit]

i'm starting to wonder what BS did to the student to make him want to kill BS.

[InfiniteNothing]

I see you got my letter. Give an A or you will get another.

[ShawnLee]

This is weird. I want to see this guy go down. Hope things go well for you.

[Showtime]

B:)

Ill take care of your problem, but..... :hmm:
"Some day, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me. But uh, until that day....."

:P

-jel:halo:

[exigent_chick]

What is your definition of semi-threat? Maybe he is under alot of pressure and was letting off some steam. Though I can not front, I have had teachers do some messed up stuff to me and I never cursed them out.

[ialsohaveadream]

I say meet the kid.

bring mase, and do it in public.

Then after he explains his case, make your decision.

Or just spray mace at his eyes, and then poop on him once his falls down...

Nah, first of all, you should just mace him AS he's making his case. He won't expect it then.

And besides, Revil had it right for the most part. You should just taunt and provoke the kid and tell nobody about it...but make sure to wear a shirt with a big red target on your chest, with text explaining that the target is a "kill spot".

[jstreet]

What is your definition of semi-threat? Maybe he is under alot of pressure and was letting off some steam. Though I can not front, I have had teachers do some messed up stuff to me and I never cursed them out.

Anything I couldn't work out rationally with a professor I spoke to the department chair or their dean about. I feel bad going over their heads, but if I think I'm right, I'm not going to stop until I don't think I'm right.

[ShawnLee]

Anything I couldn't work out rationally with a professor I spoke to the department chair or their dean about. I feel bad going over their heads, but if I think I'm right, I'm not going to stop until I don't think I'm right.
Seriously, if he thinks BS screwed him, that's the recourse. Even a semi-threat is inappropriate and should be taken seriously.

[CornMonkey]

with a question like that...I think cornmonkey is that student :shifty:
hey now, i'm not failing any of my courses...at least, i don't think i am. :)

[brainsmile]

What is your definition of semi-threat? Maybe he is under alot of pressure and was letting off some steam. Though I can not front, I have had teachers do some messed up stuff to me and I never cursed them out.
How bout the F word every 3rd word. Suggesting some orifices should be used for unnatural functions.


i'm starting to wonder what BS did to the student to make him want to kill BS.
He failed every exam including the take home ones. 5 in all. So I don't know what to say to that


Given the fact that they had all the opportunity to pass my class including numerous chances to get extra credit (you could have easily gone from a high C to an A if you did it all very well) I don't know what else one can offer. I understand the struggles of the student well. I sympathize and try to give them chances to pass. But if you cannot convey that you understand even the most general of topics how in the world do you expect a professor to pass you?

[ialsohaveadream]

Don't ever feel guilty for failing a kid. Sometimes, they just deserve it. You're not teaching him anything by passing him.

[jstreet]

Don't ever feel guilty for failing a kid. Sometimes, they just deserve it. You're not teaching him anything by passing him.

Definitely agreed. I'm quite close with a professor and he laments that the hardest part of being a professor is having to fail people. But, sometimes it's what you have to do, because, along the lines of what ialso... said, passing him along is bad for both of you.

[DaFunkyUnit]

He failed every exam including the take home ones. 5 in all. So I don't know what to say to that


Given the fact that they had all the opportunity to pass my class including numerous chances to get extra credit (you could have easily gone from a high C to an A if you did it all very well) I don't know what else one can offer. I understand the struggles of the student well. I sympathize and try to give them chances to pass. But if you cannot convey that you understand even the most general of topics how in the world do you expect a professor to pass you?

ok, i'll take your word for it. just as long as you didnt publicly humiliate the student, or ignored him during office hours, or called him a dumb idiot to his face or something like that.

[ShawnLee]

Definitely agreed. I'm quite close with a professor and he laments that the hardest part of being a professor is having to fail people. But, sometimes it's what you have to do, because, along the lines of what ialso... said, passing him along is bad for both of you.:stupid:
I've done poorly in classes and did not complain because I know what I put in and deserved the poor marks I received. I've maintained good relationships with the professors before and afterwards. There's no excuse for an earned bad grade, and no excuse for threats.

[kei2]

What the crap high C to an A from extra credit? You need to talk to some of my professors and tell them what's up.

[brainsmile]

What the crap high C to an A from extra credit? You need to talk to some of my professors and tell them what's up.well you have to understand I don't take joy in failing students... I give lots of opportunities to pass my class.

[Nija]

well you have to understand I don't take joy in failing students... I give lots of opportunities to pass my class.


You should rearrange your class. Tell them that they are all starting with an F. Then they have to work up to an A. Or you could have it be like a point based system and say everyone is starting with 0 out of X (X = the total number of possible points)

That way the kids don't have to work as hard to fail ;)

[brainsmile]

well I think what I'm going to do is arrange for more exams with less subjects to study each time. Break it down into smaller segments. But I don't know what else I can do... I do offer about 1/2 of it in multiple choice. I mean how much easier can it get than that???

[Kevster]

well I think what I'm going to do is arrange for more exams with less subjects to study each time. Break it down into smaller segments. But I don't know what else I can do... I do offer about 1/2 of it in multiple choice. I mean how much easier can it get than that???

What subject are you teaching? I mean really.... how easy do you have to make it for them to try and get a grasp of the material so that they can demonstrate that they understand it?

I'm only asking because I teach/train people at my company and I go out of my way to make sure that the people who pass my class know what is needed, otherwise it's just a waste of both their time and my time.

[oblongmelon]

well I think what I'm going to do is arrange for more exams with less subjects to study each time. Break it down into smaller segments. But I don't know what else I can do... I do offer about 1/2 of it in multiple choice. I mean how much easier can it get than that???

pardon me for asking but why are you trying to make it easy for anyone? College isn't supposed to be EASY it's supposed to bring you to a higher educational level, and that comes with diligence and hard work. If college was made easy by every proffessor then any Joe Blow off the street with half a brain could come in, take courses, not make a valid effort and graduate with honors-taking away from those students who really want to be there and bust their asses for their grades. I think Nija has a point there-start them all out with an F or a 0 and make them earn their grade point..anyone who is struggling at that point-give them the opportunity to do extra credit (college level)...that will make them or break them. it's one thing to have a hard class made INTERESTING by an interesting proff. but it's entirely another level to have a hard class made easy because the proff doesnt like to see people fail. That's not what people pay to go to college for. I say FLUNK HIM and don't budge on it. Hopefully the Dean will tell him to take his lame ass somewhere else with his threats.

[brainsmile]

What I'm saying is that what I teach is not what you would call an average class. It contains material that is necessary to lecture on but is difficult to grasp. So in light of that it should be that some leniency should be applied. An F is an F is an F. I don't have any qualms about failing someone who does not convey that he/she has grasped the basic concepts of Economics. Let's face it... not everyone enjoys the subject even though it is a the core of everything an individual does from moment he gets up to the time he sleeps since Economics is the study of choices.

It really depends on the university in a sense. I recall when attending UC Berekely that sometimes the courses were so hard that a sub 50% in a class was still a C. So if the level of difficulty is high but there must be some consideration to how grades are distributed.

I try to foster an environment of cooperation between students to try to help each other with learning rather than a cut throat dog eat dog type of setting. If that seems like I'm coddling them then that's your opinion. There's enough backstabbing in the university between peers. I don't feel I need to encourage more.

[oblongmelon]

What I'm saying is that what I teach is not what you would call an average class. It contains material that is necessary to lecture on but is difficult to grasp. So in light of that it should be that some leniency should be applied. An F is an F is an F. I don't have any qualms about failing someone who does not convey that he/she has grasped the basic concepts of Economics. Let's face it... not everyone enjoys the subject even though it is a the core of everything an individual does from moment he gets up to the time he sleeps since Economics is the study of choices.

It really depends on the university in a sense. I recall when attending UC Berekely that sometimes the courses were so hard that a sub 50% in a class was still a C. So if the level of difficulty is high but there must be some consideration to how grades are distributed.

I try to foster an environment of cooperation between students to try to help each other with learning rather than a cut throat dog eat dog type of setting. If that seems like I'm coddling them then that's your opinion. There's enough backstabbing in the university between peers. I don't feel I need to encourage more.

well I was going by what you said on making it easier for your classes. what does backstabbing have to do with anything???? Perhaps before ALL students take college courses-they should take a mandatory course on how to prepare/study/produce in their courses...do you grade on a curve? When I was in College-I had a professor that ALWAYS graded on a curve-I remember one class (Microbiology) in which half of the group(which included most of the school's hockey team and their girlfriends) all came to the midterm hung over from celebrating a win the night before....they all literally threw the exam because they knew that the proff would grade on a curve..if it wasnt for some of us with a 4.0 ...they probably wouldn't have passed.

[cheapie]

i don't know if he's saying he's making it easy. he's giving them lots of opportunities to improve their grade. i loved profs like that. i knew that the subject matter was complex, but that there was opportunities to help myself out.

[zenbooty]

well you have to understand I don't take joy in failing students.I did. Mewling little trust fund brats had it coming :shifty:

[brainsmile]

i don't know if he's saying he's making it easy. he's giving them lots of opportunities to improve their grade. i loved profs like that. i knew that the subject matter was complex, but that there was opportunities to help myself out.
yup...that exactly what I'm saying...

[InfiniteNothing]

It really depends on the university in a sense. I recall when attending UC Berekely that sometimes the courses were so hard that a sub 50% in a class was still a C. So if the level of difficulty is high but there must be some consideration to how grades are distributed.

PChem is so hard at UCSD (w/ Wheeler) that on the first midterm of 133 a 25% was C/C+ range. A 50% was B+/A- range.

[brainsmile]

see what I mean? :)

[Kevster]

PChem is so hard at UCSD (w/ Wheeler) that on the first midterm of 133 a 25% was C/C+ range. A 50% was B+/A- range.

About half of my engineering courses at Loyola Marymount were like that. The highest major GPA for undergrad was just over 3.2. We pretty much relied on our core and elective classes to bump up our overall GPAs.

I knew I was getting a good education even though it was tough and found it quite funny when working with a recent USC MSEE graduate that he didn't understand what I was talking about when I mentioned that phase noise, jitter and wander was going to become a real problem in his network synchronization plan. I proceeded to explain it to him (it was the first time he had ever heard of this). I strongly recommended that he should stick to the Bellcore and ITU specifications for network synchronization instead of taking the shortcuts that his manager was telling him to do (a former-engineer-turned-finance moron whose ideas are very similiar to those of the pointy-haired boss in Dilbert). I don't have much respect for USC's electrical engineering program since the worst instructor I ever had received his Ph.D from there. This coworker of mine who just received his MSEE from there has only solidified that for me.

[RoniMan]

so what's the update on the situation?

[brainsmile]

nothing but he did leave me a voice message <same theme>

[molecularfire]

BS, do you teach at UCLA by any chance? If you do, don't take it too seriously, students threaten teachers there all the time. Personally, I think there is something in the application that selects for backstabbing psycho gunners. As for what to do about the student... kick his A$$.

[brainsmile]

hehe... molecularfire... thanks for the uhhh encouragement?

[Apex]

PChem is so hard at UCSD (w/ Wheeler) that on the first midterm of 133 a 25% was C/C+ range. A 50% was B+/A- range.

Indeed, I remember laughing at my friends going through Wheeler's class. Hehe. So glad I moved from bio-med eng to econ. :)

[brainsmile]

Econ? You were Econ at UCSD? Did I fail you? :P

[Apex]

Econ? You were Econ at UCSD? Did I fail you? :P

Hmm, maybe. And if not me, perhaps leon. ;)

What did you teach?

[slaus]

Econ? You were Econ at UCSD? Did I fail you? :P

Which econ courses do you teach?

[CornMonkey]

aha!! brainsmile teaches econ at UCSD, eh?