Thoughts on last supper.

[aggieSlaughter]

What do you guys think.

Catholics-->believe they are drinking physical blood and eating physical flesh.

Lutherans (and some methodists I think) --> Believe they are drinking spiritual blood and eating spiritual flesh "in with and under" the bread and wine.

Baptists and many other protestants --> this is a symbol of the sacrifice
given. "Do this in rememberance of me"

Post your thoughts on this.....

[Cantacuzene]

Can you pick a more diversive topic? Possibly one which will get more vitriol flying, because this topic isnt going to be bad enough for my taste.

[cheapie]

i don't think it's as bad as some of the political stuff we've discussed.


i believe it's symbolic.

[Cantacuzene]

Just wait for you know who to come give his 3 cents.

[cheapie]

cough*johnnymk*cough


who? heh heh.

[aggieSlaughter]

Can you pick a more diversive topic? Possibly one which will get more vitriol flying, because this topic isnt going to be bad enough for my taste.
One abortion post, coming up. Oh No's!!!!

J/k

haha.

[cheapie]

i think that weapons of mass destruction gay marriage george bush catholics suv peta michael moore socialism capitalism oil prices abortion and spankings.

[nickel]

What do you guys think.

Catholics-->believe they are drinking physical blood and eating physical flesh.

Lutherans (and some methodists I think) --> Believe they are drinking spiritual blood and eating spiritual flesh "in with and under" the bread and wine.

Baptists and many other protestants --> this is a symbol of the sacrifice
given. "Do this in rememberance of me"

Post your thoughts on this.....
i am Catholic and never once was i told/taught that i was drinking actual physical blood or eating actual flesh (EWWWWWW). i was taught the bread and wine were symbols. symbols that God has given/sacrificed his total self to us.

[brainsmile]

yup that's the way I think of it.

[Cantacuzene]

From Nikolas Kavasilas, The Life in Christ, 1330a.d. (originally written in Greek)...

"What can subsist, what that is absent can be introduced into us when Christ is completely with us, when he penetrates though all parts of usm possesses everything within us, and is all around us? He prevents the arrow launched from outside from hitting us, sheltering us from all sides, for he is our place of refuge. If by chance there is some imperfection within, he expels it. For he is the dweller who fills the entire abode with our prescence. For we do not partake of some of his attributes but of him himself. Nor do we receive in our souls rays or light, but the sun itself, to the point of dwelling within and becoming one spirit with us. At once therefore our spirit and body and all our faculties become spiritual, since spirit is mixed with spirit, body with body, and blood with blood.
O the sublimity of the sacraments: For it is in such manner that the spirit of Christ is comingled with our spirit, his will with our will, his body with our body. What spirit is ours under the power of his spirit, what will is ours with his blessed will, and what is our dust with his unquenchable fire... Thus perfect is the sacrament, surpassing all other perfection, and leads through itself to the acme of what is good, since it is the final end of all human aspiration. We receive God himself in that sacrament and God unites with us in the most perfect union: for what union could be more intimate than to become one spirit with God...
Wherefore, he has not only assumed flesh, but also taken soul and mind and will and all else belonging to man, so that he might be able to unite himself completely with our being and penetrate our entire being, and dissolve us in himself while uniting all his attributes with ours. For this reason he is unharmonious with sinners and cannot be united with them, since between him and men all is common except sin. For his has assumed all other attributes in the manner of men [philanthropos] and it united with us even more humanly. God has come to earth and lifted us up from below. God has made himself a man and has made man deified."

[cheapie]

:eye:

[molecularfire]

Darn it! I thought this thread was going to be about what people had last night for supper. Where is my thread about food!!! :throw:

[nickel]

Darn it! I thought this thread was going to be about what people had last night for supper. Where is my thread about food!!! :throw:
that being said.....

FOOOOOOOD FIIIIIIIIGHT!!!

[aggieSlaughter]

i am Catholic and never once was i told/taught that i was drinking actual physical blood or eating actual flesh (EWWWWWW). i was taught the bread and wine were symbols. symbols that God has given/sacrificed his total self to us.

Don't say that in church, you'll get in BIG trouble for that. I'm in trouble for thinking that and it's just because I date a lutheran, haha. You see things like the baptists(like me) see them. Ask someone high in the catholic church, they think that when they bless the bread and wine, it actually turns into physical blood and bread. This is called transubstantiation. If you don't believe that, the catholic church believes your damaging yourself and the congregation when you take communion with them....(I think that's a bit harsh myself).

Please keep the comments up, I'm just looking for what other people think, the difference between myself and my girlfriend(Baptist and Lutheran) caused some big problems for a while......

Catholics-->actual blood and body

Lutherans-->Spiritual Blood and Body(but not just symbols, actual blood and body, but not actual blood and body....I still don't understand that)

Baptists(and most other protestants)-->Symbols(like you believe nickel).

Just from what I've found and been told......

Anyone know any differently?

(honestly I'm not trying to start any debate or anything, I'm looking for answers, and am EXTREMELY happy to see everyone keeping this civil/jovial... :) )

[Cantacuzene]

Orthodox Christians take it even more seriously/literally than Roman Catholics. To them it is the "medicine of immortality" to quote one theologian. You can see that idea in the passage I cited above.

[aggieSlaughter]

Orthodox Christians take it even more seriously/literally than Roman Catholics. To them it is the "medicine of immortality" to quote one theologian. You can see that idea in the passage I cited above.

Lutheran's take it VERY seriously.... if you think it's just a symbol you're "Doing it at your own damnation"(ie..damning your self to hell for doing that).

If I take communion with them thinking what I think, they think I should beg forgiveness right afterword or I chance hellfire and brimstone....

Heated debate in my life right now, haha.

[johnnymk]

It is a symbol. However, the Bible says to examine yourself before you take the bread and the wine(eating and drinking unworthily) and not to take the ceremony lightly. Or else you could become physically weak and sickly or even die.

I have never heard a sermon which specifically identifies cause and effect of eating unworthily. But every time we have it in our church, the pastor emphasizes the examination issue. Many times when I have issues I don't want to deal with, I don't participate.

And I don't have a clue where the idea came from where the wine can turn to blood and the bread to flesh. But it is so typical of humanity taking a simple act of worshipping the Lord and making it into a complex procedure.

People love religion. They want to believe that magical powers are associated with a ceremony or a dead ritual. They also believe that God is pleased or smiling at them when they are participating in them.

God desires a personal relationship with the people he made. He wants to be their friend.

And when people do decide to get together to celebrate what he did on the cross, he wants them to think of Him and not to make a big deal of the supper itself.

[cheapie]

It is a symbol. However, the Bible says to examine yourself before you take the bread and the wine(eating and drinking unworthily) and not to take the ceremony lightly. Or else you could become physically weak and sickly or even die.

I have never heard a sermon which specifically identifies cause and effect of eating unworthily. But every time we have it in our church, the pastor emphasizes the examination issue. Many times when I have issues I don't want to deal with, I don't participate.



lol. believe it or not, me too. i've actually taken the little cup and poured it out onto the carpet or my coat or something cuz it's pretty obvious if you don't take one. :rolleyes:

[Cantacuzene]

And I don't have a clue where the idea came from where the wine can turn to blood and the bread to flesh. But it is so typical of humanity taking a simple act of worshipping the Lord and making it into a complex procedure.

The first written account of the Eucharist as a sacrament rather than something that happened everyday was in 138a.d. although it had probably originated much earlier. The passage comes from the First Apology of Justin the Martyr. Here it is...


"The bread and a cup containing cut wine are brought to the overseer of the brothers. He takes both and gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. When the overseer has given thanks and all the people have assented, those we call deacons give each some of the bread and wine that was accepted with thanksgiving. This meal we call Eucharist. No one is allowed to take part in it except he who believes that the things we teach are true, who has received the bath for the forgiveness of sins for the new birth, and who lives according to the teachings handed down by Christ. For we do not partake of this meal as if it were ordinary food or drink. Rather, through the Logos of God, our healing savior Jesus Christ became flesh and blood for our salvation. Hence, as we have been taught, the food taken with thanksgiving in the words of prayer he handed down to us is the flesh and blood of that Christ who became flesh. Our flesh and blood are strengthened by this eating and drinking for our transformation."

[cheapie]

wtf are you doing this much research on this topic on a sunday evening for canta? are there tons of ucf hotties to try to captivate? sheesh. ;)

[Cantacuzene]

Early church history is one of my favorite areas of history and I read quite a bit about it. I didn't have to do much research since I already own all these books hehe.

[johnnymk]

In the book of Corinthians, Paul admonishes them concerning the Lord's supper. Paul wrote this letter approximately 55 AD.

BTW, the church is the body of believers regardless of where they are assembled. And all believers are saints.

[aggieSlaughter]

Early church history is one of my favorite areas of history and I read quite a bit about it. I didn't have to do much research since I already own all these books hehe.

I would love to communicate more with you on this. The way the churches all split up facinate me and I want to know where some of the new theologies come from. If ya don't mind a little one on 1 about this, e-mail me.

Thanks,

Aggieslaughter

P.S. if you have any good books to recommend, lemme know.

[speedracer120]

Well Justo Gonzales' two volume history is a pretty good summation of a lot of the history of Christianity. I've had that book in my syllabus both in my secular undergrad classes and in later graduate level seminary classes. But even that book doesn't go too deep into the controversies and councils and even the patristic letters that created a lot of the divergent atmosphere that interest you. For that you need to got at least one level deeper and look at articles and what not.

[aggieSlaughter]

bump

any more comments??

[Cantacuzene]

In the book of Corinthians, Paul admonishes them concerning the Lord's supper. Paul wrote this letter approximately 55 AD.

Like I said, I was showing the first reference to the eucharist as being a sacrament rather than something that was done everyday. The Lord's Supper thing was celebrating daily by most christians until an indeterminent time between 70a.d. and 138a.d. when it became associated with the weekly religious services which were just beginning to be held on sunday.


I would love to communicate more with you on this. The way the churches all split up facinate me and I want to know where some of the new theologies come from. If ya don't mind a little one on 1 about this, e-mail me.

Thanks,

Aggieslaughter

P.S. if you have any good books to recommend, lemme know.

Just PM me, I hardly ever use email.