Imports

[NiceMann]

Ok everyone always talks about how they wish they had a BMW or some other import. I myself love a Good Ole Chevy Truck. Very dependable and its made in America. It can't get any better then that. I know not everyone is a truck person, but america makes some good cars too.

Heart Beat Of America...Today's Chevy Trucks!

~NiceMann

[pennypinch]

I certainly like that better than Ford, but I'm a Mopar person meself...do you have one of the new silverados, Nice? I like the way those look VERY much. I drove a 96 Tahoe for a little while, then switched to an Expedition, which was a huge mistake. I'm in a Durango now, and happy as a clam. Doesn't have the ridiculous gee-wizardry of the Ford and is made a little tighter than the Tahoe. And it's not a logistical exercise trying to find parking.

[pennypinch]

A big-pimpin Cadillac or good condition six-four would be very cool as well.

[att]

the ford f150 does outsell the honda accord or toyota camry, that's not by mistake. i myself wouldnt mind a lincoln if i could afford it, the new ones are sick.

[spigidygak]

Hey, I might be a beemer lover but I still dig my Jeep Grand Cherokee.

[NiceMann]

Hey now people I said CHEVY not ford. http://www.gotapex.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Naa Fords a good company, I just always buy chevy. http://www.gotapex.com/ubb/smile.gif

~NiceMann

[blxmjx]

I gotta agree with you. GMC trucks are the way to go. Gotta love my 4.3 liters of turbocharged all wheel drive typhoon.

[colossus]

Until recently I have always found Ford's built quality of cabin body components to be of slightly better quality than GM stuff. My 1987 Taurus has worn so well inside with cloth seats. That's probably the only reason I never owned a GM vehicle. I like the fact that the 3800 series of engines was making more power and more efficiently via pushrod than most of the import DOHC engines.

If you need a real truck, ie your moving houses, you still gotta turn to Ford. Ever see how much those Ford tractors or earth movers can pull!?! http://www.gotapex.com/ubb/eek.gif It's outrageous!

I've been with my 1998.5 Ford Contour SVT for 2.08 years now and haven't had a single problem other than crappy gas mileage. A 2.5L DOHC should get more than 21 mpg on mixed city/highway when pulling a 2800 pound car. I guess the fact I have a lead foot doesn't help though.

Oh, I did have 1 problem, but Ford dealers induced it, and later fixed. Most American cars will do fine as long as you or your local mechanic maintain it rather than a dealership.

I honestly think dealerships "destroy" their own so that they can bill the Auto company for repairs under warranty. The dealer gets to make tons of money on labor and parts and the Auto maker suffers in name.

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Ço£o§§ü§ - yeah you can read into it...

[spigidygak]

All this hub-bub of ford or chevy/gmc. . . BAH! I'll take a Dodge 2500 dualy http://www.gotapex.com/ubb/biggrin.gif.

[resented]

d

[This message has been edited by resented (edited 07-26-2000).]

[resented]

s

[This message has been edited by resented (edited 07-26-2000).]

[att]

2.08 years, colossus? gee, couldn't you get a little more specific.

[qeg84doa]

Has anyone ever looked at consumer-reports?
All the little red dots beside the imports and black spots beside domestic vehicles is no coincident. Japanese and German cars and trucks are superior. They run longer stronger and retain resale value far more than domestic. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for red white and blue(I own a Ford myself) but unfortunately, were still playing catch-up in manufacturing techniques, quality etc. Edward Deming (American) tried to convince American manufacturers to comit to total quality but nobody listend... he took his ideas and principles to Japan were they put them to work(Edward Deming Award). I work at Toyota and believe me.... they get on my nerves on how picky they are about the smallest details....then again... I'm proud to part of a company that strives to make a quality Automobile.

[spigidygak]

That's true, I'm a German auto enthusiast. But when it comes to trucks and big block engines, no one can beat the Americans. Although Toyota trucks are "refined" they just don't have the torque that a good ol' Dodge Ram v12 or a Ford F350 or Chevy Sierra has. There are just soo many more better trucks made in the heartland.

[att]

isnt it funny that we make superior trucks, the automobiles that take all the abuse, but we cant make a car that takes zero abuse and runs forever. what's up with that?

[pennypinch]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by qeg84doa:
They retain resale value far more than domestic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Resale value is based on the PERCEPTION of quality, not actual quality. Today, lemon examples of Toyotas and Hondas sell for just as much as a good specimen. If resale value was not based on people's perceptions, then well-maintained, good running cars would all sell for the same, regardless of the badge on the hood.
I have also been skeptical of the consumer reports methodology, an area on which they've been taken to task many times. I am just ignorant as to how those black and red dots are calculated. Does anyone have a CR issue in front of them? Their pseudo-scientific approach has always kind of irked me.
Finally, with regards to Edward Deming, that was decades ago. Do you honestly think American car companies haven't caught on by now? You can bet the early-90's saw car execs getting flogged by their superiors for letting the Japanese get so far ahead in QC. Today's impression of Japanese goods is still the product of our late-80's conception of the robot-Japanese businessman/factory worker, the mystique that suggests that they are a superhuman race of people, and that their success will always be a mystery to us. I can assure you American companies have been hard at work trying to figure it out, and given 15 years, I think they've probably cracked it. Considering the number of European companies that have been purchased by Americans, it's probably not that closely guarded a secret.

[420racer]

Chevy is the only TRUCK that I will buy, you know, "builty like a rock".

I do drive an ACURA, over 160K miles and still beat most of the newer vehicles... http://www.gotapex.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Grizybaer]

I'm sure hoping they caught on, when quality is equal and supply is high due to competition, prices go down!


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~Grizy
Great, so how much is shipping?

[spigidygak]

I gues I'm the only Dodge truck lover here?

[IrishSS]

You listen to a Ford Powerstroke 7.3 and then to a Cummins and you tell me which one you like more...

I gotta go with the Powerstroke...

[Grizybaer]

Whats the deal with the pushrod engine?

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~Grizy
Great, so how much is shipping?

[Eminem17]

Even though I'm an American, I must admit that American cars/trucks suck. No offense to those owners, but Japanese cars by far excel in almost every test category. My parents own a Ford Taurus, one of the best selling American passenger cars in recent years. They are constantly in and out of the shop with it, whether it be recalls to constant brake work. I'm extremely satisfied with my import, and would never buy American.

[420racer]

HONDAS RULE

[AJ]

its still true that american cars are a good 5 years behind imports...

[spigidygak]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AJ:
its still true that american cars are a good 5 years behind imports...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah AJ, I think its only 3 or so years, hehe

[Nanotech9]

Lets not foget about the Good 'ole '95 GMC (same as chevy, right?) 4WD K1500 SWB, and its awesome plastic bearing races in the tranny that seem to pulverize after 80k mi....

Other than that, it as a great truck.

[colossus]

See, that post above about the Taurus and the brake problems show that people don't know about cars. The standard Ford (Motorcraft) organometallic pads are better than what Honda puts on most of it's cars. In fact Honda is now using Ford's Motorcraft division as an outsourcer for electronics and brakes.

Now if your Taurus had constant brake problems, either
1) the cars was designed so poorly that it's weight distribution was like 99F and 1R. I don't think this is the case. All the midsize cars have about 60F 40R weight distribution, plus or minus 5% depending on options and model. Plus, ask any independent mechanic which pads wear out faster (Taurus sedan or Accord sedan) and he would say the Taurus usually fails around 35K while the Accord fails around 27K on average. Mind also that the Accord is a lighter car.

2) The guys putting on the parts are idiots. Especially if you take it to a Ford dealer. Why would the Ford dealer purposefully do a bad job on repairs, especially when it's under warranty? Because the dealership (privately owned) stands to make money at Ford's expense.

Braking systems are relatively independent of the car. For $1200 bucks you could upgrade the entire brake lines, and change all 4 wheels to Bear braking system with huge 13" sweeps (crossed drilled or slotted). The braking on the car would exceed anything in it's class. I've done this to my car and it can be done to any car. Some extra money needs to be spent if the car has ABS.

Every car has it's weak points. Some cars are just laddened with them. My family has had a piece of junk from Ford (1980 Fairmont) and 2 awesome cars from Ford (1987 Taurus wagon, 1996 Taurus sedan, 1998.5 Contour SVT). Obviously the same automaker has the ability to produce entirely different products. I've seen Civics that commute 180 miles a day that have nearly 260K on them in 10 years that have almost repairs and I've seen Civics with 18K needing new alternators.

½ the time it's the drivers fault. So let it go. My #1 priority in a new car is safety, and only recently have Honda and Toyota focused on safety. They're doing an excellent job at it too! I'm just saddened that one of my fav importers, Nissan, hasn't cared to protect it's customers. Else I would probably buy a new Maxima.

[colossus]

BTW, what I considered to be Ford's best car, the Contour, which I own has given me no problems in 2.3 years of ownership. Other than 3 oil changes with Mobil 1 synthetic and custom oil filters and 2 tire rotations it's made 18.5K problem free. Everything is working on the car like brand new.

The only problem I've had are 2 flat tires that needed to be patched. A shocking total repair cost of $19.83.

My dad's 96 Taurus has run fine since Dec 95, but it did need one coolant recall that the Ford dealership really messed up on. Plus one EGR valve needed cleaning (cuz my dad ignores normal maintenance schedules.

Just curious, has anybody else had such problem free reliability?

[spigidygak]

Yup Yup, colossus you got great points. I noticed overall American and Euro's are much more durable. I've heard and seen too many Honda's and Toyota's overheating or having some minor problems constantly.

[blxmjx]

I tend to disagree with that statement I've owned a lot of cars myself and my family has owned a lot of cars. The japanese cars that we have had have been totally more reliable than the american and german cars that we have had. We've had two bmw's a 528 and a 325, three vw's a jetta, a golf, and a passat. The american cars that we've had have been one camaro, a mustang one malibu station wagon a ford bronco and a gmc typhoon. The japanese cars that we have had one miata, two rx7's, toyota celica, lexus gs 400, acura legend, acura integra gsr, honda civic, honda accord, toyota camry, toyota avalon. The japanese cars have totally ruled in regards to reliability. The american and german cars have had a lot of electrical and cooling problems and a lot of things have broken that you would never think would break. Like a heater core, exhaust manifold, intake manifold, seatbelt, doorlatch, odometer, speedometer, engine mounts. For the most part the japanese cars have been problem free, with only scheduled maintenance and normal wear and tear, like brake pads, clutches, water pumps at the most. All the vehicle that we have had follow the same maintenance guidelines. Actually we would go farther without maintenance with the japanese cars with no problems.

[spigidygak]

You know what. My family has owned a lot of cars too. But just 'cause you own a lot of cars literally means jack. There are thousands of other cars out there of the same model having different problems or success. The real way of knowing whats good overal is by talking to mechanics. My neighbor owns a dealership and I talk to him a lot and I am friends with lots of his mechanics. They service everything from Honda, VW, Jeep, Nissan, and many more. From their opinions they see the Japanese autos come in more often at a lower mileage with some problems.

[blxmjx]

I've had the same discussions with mechanics and they tell me an entirely different story. Japanese cars on a whole have proven to be more reliable. If you look at consumer report reliability ratings most of the cars that are recommended due to reliability are usually japanese. About 70% of the cars that they tell you to avoid due to reliability issues are american. Two of my uncles own auto repair shops and they have both told me the same story, american cars are definitely less reliable in their opinion and in my opinion also. In regards to german automobiles, vw's have gotten a lot better reliability than before. BMW's aren't so bad, just expensive to maintain.

[spigidygak]

As much as I love and adore BMW, that's all people think when it comes to Euro's. But they're forgetting [the] greatest manufacturer Mercedes-Benz. . . err Daimler-Chrylser AG. These babies last. They are rock solid. I drove one of those c-classes and was shocked, even there "cheapo" line felt like driving a tank. You can't deny MB's inovations. They invented the anti-lock brake system and Airbags. Hell what can you say, these were the first autos on the road ever. But yeah, yeah, price is a lot more. . .

[blxmjx]

I gotta agree with you about benzo's they are some of the best crafted automobiles. Boy, do those cars last.

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by spigidygak
You can't deny MB's inovations. They invented the anti-lock brake system
Call me wacky, but I think Porsche actually invented ABS, on their 962 (?) Le Mans cars. That may not be correct, but I think it is. I know MB were the first manufacturers to actually install them on road cars. It's like saying Porsche "invented" the turbo; no they didn't, they were just the first to put one on a road car.

[hapoo]

your both wrong!!!!


The Origins of ABS

Anti-lock braking was originally designed for trains in the early 1900s, and developed for jet aircraft after World War II. In the late 1960s, car manufacturers began to adapt ABS for use in luxury automobiles. However, early prototype systems were severely limited by mechanical and analog technologies of the time.

Advances in electronics technology allowed car manufacturers to develop highly reliable anti-lock braking systems that can be economically installed in a wide variety of vehicles.

[colossus]

Hapoo is correct. If you guys are gonna posts facts, do the research. I've gotten flamed in the past by people who make up facts without caring to look stuff up. MB did not invent ABS. As Hapoo said, it was originally an aviation concept.

In the late 1960's GM (yes, General Motors) filed for a US patent regarding anti-lock systems that were valve controlled - fluid based models. In the early 1970's Ford officially filed for the first computer controlled ABS systems. Check the patent office online if you want proof. Of the only 2 lawyers I care to know, one is a patent lawyer so I get my info from him :)

Also, in referrence to airbags, Ford was the first one to file for an international patent for something called the "Supplementary Restraint System" in 1971. This actually came from the aerospace division of Ford/Visteon that was working with TRW automotive. These were to be used in the Space Shuttle to protect astronaughts, so they were not filed under Automotive but rather Aeronautical. However, the general patent filed 2 years later allowed them access to wide spread use of the design. TRW was actually responsible for implementation of the SRS systems on the recent Mars projects.

Notice how in my post I said nothing of import's reliability. That's because my family hasn't owned any. The first car my dad bought when he came to the US in the early 70's was a used 69 Mustang. That got banged up good in 2 years, and he sold it for more than he got it :) The next car he bought a used Maverick that also ate it after 2 years. Then we bought a new Ford figuring these cars did so well saving our lives. Unfortunately we bought the crappy Ford Fairmont which had to be tuned just to be driven off the parking lot brand new. Right then my dad should have known. But he didn't know much about car buying then and didn't test drive. BTW, never buy from Cerritos Ford - I hate those bastards!

So after the Fairmont died at around 50K due to numerous problems, we decided to give Ford a redeeming chance simply because the "new" 1987 Taurus wagon looked so "cool". You gotta admit back then it was cool. Hey, if Robocop could drive a Taurus so could I.

The point of this personal rambling is my family has lived on only 1 car for 4 people until recently as only my dad drove. If 1 car is able to handle the needs of many people then it is dependable. Families with 10 cars may not find a hassle with having a car in the shop, but when there's only one driver to pick the kids and groceries up and take pops to work it's important.

As far as Consumer Reports is concerned, they can kiss my ass. I'd be surprised if they ever said anything nice about any American car. They'd probably prefer a Corolla over a Lincoln LS if given the option. Any company that rates dishwashers in the same magazine as cars isn't valid in my book.

I think Microsoft's carpoint is more valid as the data is 50% from the owners of the cars themselves. Things like JD Powers are valid to a certain degree. Remember, people don't usually care to submit info if they're apathetic to the car. My dad views cars as A to B transportation, so he would never submit a JD Powers survey. His voice is never included.

Now, would a MB or Lexus owner be apathetic when buying their car. Usually they know where "their place" is on the social ladder. Often times people buy these cars with some intent to convey an image. Hence I would rarely hear a Lexus or MB owner whine about their car if it had a problem. The Maxima or Taurus owner would bitch about the same problem. So all the surveys need to placed in perspective. Anybody who has taken medical biostatistics know stats is simply a logical way to lie to people. Most people couldn't tell you what % 90% of 45% of the populace is!

If you want a honest opinion, go to a repair shop that does repair for imports and domestics. Usually a family owned shop. That's where my family takes our cars. They will blatantly tell you when some problem on your car is rare for that model or normal. I found out broken engine mounts on Tauri was extremely common - who knew! Transmissions and the alternator/starters on Hondas are prone to early failure in warm weather - who knew! Most independent mechanics have nothing to gain from offering this opinion. See what they drive.

I currently think most of Honda's cars are way too overrated. Same goes for Toyota. Way too pricey and offer little for their price other than a reputation.

Instead, Honda and Toyota now make awesome minivans. Yes, these companies who used to make small displacement miniature golf carts now make huge honking people movers. The Odyssey even requires Premium fuel in one of its models. The Odyssey and Sienna are among the best minivans out there today! Only people who place a premium on safety should consider a Windstar for significantly more. The best selling Chrysler/Dodge combo may look great but is overall a bad value. Even the new Mitsu large cars are great people movers to give the Dodge Intrepid a run for the money.

And Americans make probably the best cars and small cars now. The Ford Focus (as I'm told) is an awesome car. I don't car for it's looks, but it seems to be doing well in sales and on the road. And the new Taurus has safety features available on a sub 20K car that MB won't even introduce for 2 years! Adjusting for weight differences, the new Taurus has better crash ratings than most cars 3 to 4X it's cost. Go fig!

Point is, every auto maker has an awesome car or vehicle. Most people look at the Make of a car company and then start deciding which vehicle they like from that company. I think this is flat out stupid. I start with my needs for a car and look at all the cars in that category from any manufacturer nomatter what the reputation.

Until people get over the misconception that if it's from across the mysticals seas it's better and if it's built locally it's more comfortable, people will not be buying the best car for their needs. Period.

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by colossus


Until people get over the misconception that if it's from across the mysticals seas it's better and if it's built locally it's more comfortable, people will not be buying the best car for their needs. Period.
Hear hear hear hear!!
That's what I've been trying to say for months, but nobody on this board wants to listen. And I quote, "HONDAS RULE!"
*sigh* I guess they just don't know what they're missing, huh?

[hapoo]

And I quote (myself) "Honda's suck my ass"

[spigidygak]

Sorry, I need to correct myself. I meant that MB was the first company to have abs on a consumer level auto. Jeez. . . over critical bitches here :D.

[colossus]

hehe, Spidy, did you just call me your Bitch?

I can't be, I'm Hapoo's :)

[spigidygak]

I didn't say you were my bitch, just said you were a bitch :D. heheh :heh: hehe :heh:.

[colossus]

So I'm a bitch! Bite me!

No, wait, ignore that! After learning of Nice"mann"'s problems I don't want to find out something about you hehe :) J/K

[coleslaw]

Volvo was the first to implement seat belts.

[Full Monty]

I had a '78 GMC Sierra Grande as my first car. Aside from not wanting to start a few times, it was a good truck and is missed.

[Nanotech9]

I have a friend that has an old Civic ('84 I think) that has over 350k mi. on it, and he's only on the second tranny, and on the original engine, but it uses a little oil.

On the other hand, he also has an Olds Cutlass Supreme with the same high mileage, and also on the second tranny, same engine.

The oil is clean on both engines when he goes to change it.

Colossus:
Just how many mile do you go before changing the oil? I change mine (oil and filter) every 3k mi. (sometimes a little more), and I have to change it every 2 months at least. And thats taking into consideration that I split my traveling between the car and Bike. I also change the oil on the bike every 2 - 3 months, also at 3k mi. Am I really driving/riding that much more than other people?

[DrSpeed111]

i think the whole idea of what kinda truck you want depends on where you are. me, i'm out in the west coast...northern california to be exact. i own a lifted and tricked our nissan pathfinder.

(ask me for photos if you want. it has a 4" lift and runs on 33" Goodyear MT's)

i love this truck. it has a nicer interior compared to domestics, and since it's supercharged now, it can out run a chevy half ton with a 305 (or 302 on a ford, 309 for you mopars..but i digress). it's my fourth year at cal berkeley, so if i sign with ford, that means the nissan is going in favor of a new 3/4 ton superduty with a powerstroke v-8.

so you see, it's all where you are. west coast people embrace imports, while if your out in the midwest, you'll get lynched.

sure love my pathfinder though.

[psycho-]

geez! ALL you guys pretend to know what ABS is....yet all you guys tend to define ABS incorrectly. It's "ASSISTED BRAKING AND STEERING"

[Newbiee]

Dude how many ppl are in your family, i mean dayumn you've had a sh*t load of cars

Originally posted by blxmjx
I tend to disagree with that statement I've owned a lot of cars myself and my family has owned a lot of cars. The japanese cars that we have had have been totally more reliable than the american and german cars that we have had. We've had two bmw's a 528 and a 325, three vw's a jetta, a golf, and a passat. The american cars that we've had have been one camaro, a mustang one malibu station wagon a ford bronco and a gmc typhoon. The japanese cars that we have had one miata, two rx7's, toyota celica, lexus gs 400, acura legend, acura integra gsr, honda civic, honda accord, toyota camry, toyota avalon. The japanese cars have totally ruled in regards to reliability. The american and german cars have had a lot of electrical and cooling problems and a lot of things have broken that you would never think would break. Like a heater core, exhaust manifold, intake manifold, seatbelt, doorlatch, odometer, speedometer, engine mounts. For the most part the japanese cars have been problem free, with only scheduled maintenance and normal wear and tear, like brake pads, clutches, water pumps at the most. All the vehicle that we have had follow the same maintenance guidelines. Actually we would go farther without maintenance with the japanese cars with no problems.