Why Dell sucks......

[_=DeltaForce=_]

Here is the link

http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=588

I think Dell should be Banned from Computing....

[LegendKiller]

Why? Because they load software that people want? During the configuration of a Dell system you can set whether you want Musicmatch, AOL, or Norton. Furthermore, it's not like Dell does this on purpose. Lastly, if the person doesn't want it, its not hard to get rid of it.

Wow, Dell gets bashed for giving consumers more software. Thats a first.


LK

[_=DeltaForce=_]

They say that 128mb of Ram is more than Enough to run a PC... Windows XP needs like 128mb to run... My friend bought a system and it was freezing like hell and after upgrading the ram, its just fine... DONT they f****ing know that you cant run with 128mb...

[redcolours]

thats why its an "option" to upgrade.

i think theyre running a business....

[Mike_N_Ike]

They say that 128mb of Ram is more than Enough to run a PC... Windows XP needs like 128mb to run... My friend bought a system and it was freezing like hell and after upgrading the ram, its just fine... DONT they f****ing know that you cant run with 128mb...
Admittedly, it's really frustrating trying to run winxp with 128mb of ram - I had the same problem when I first upgraded to xp. If you're going to blame somebody though, blame Microsoft. They're the ones who came up with the 128 figure for that OS.

I'd rather a company operate that way than try to tell me that I need a GB of ram to run my OS and make that much more money off of me.

[_=DeltaForce=_]

well this dell PC had a P4 2.66 ghz, Windows XP and ONLY 128mb RAM!!! It was bought two months ago so its not an old pc..

[Jenny]

So then buy cheap ram elsewhere? Don't blame them for wanting to make money. Other companies do the same damn thing...

[LegendKiller]

They say that 128mb of Ram is more than Enough to run a PC... Windows XP needs like 128mb to run... My friend bought a system and it was freezing like hell and after upgrading the ram, its just fine... DONT they f****ing know that you cant run with 128mb...

As stated, you can upgrade. Its not THEIR FAULT THAT PEOPLE DON'T CHOOSE TO DO THIS.

[nickel]

As stated, you can upgrade. Its not THEIR FAULT THAT PEOPLE DON'T CHOOSE TO DO THIS.
he was claiming it was suckage.

people who don't know much about computers just trust these companies to set them up a package deal without having to upgrade.

[ski]

he was claiming it was suckage.

people who don't know much about computers just trust these companies to set them up a package deal without having to upgrade.
:stupid:

Glad somebody said this. Don't assume everybody knows as much about computers as the average person on this board. I have many friends with clueless parents that have and will continue to buy new computers with 128 MB RAM.

I understand your point that people can always take the software off, but if it's the software that people want (what you claim), then they're going to keep it on, right?

Software people want + 128MB RAM = problem

[LPMiller]

So, it's the price people pay for having a cheap computer. Like Dell is only one to do this. HP/Compaq sell 128mb Celerom systems through staples all the time. They sell big.

No one is being held hostage here, and if the consumer buying it doesn't know enough to get it with more ram, I have zero sympathy. I research every major purchase I buy, yet people will pick up a PC without checking into the company, the product, nothing. Stupid consumers get what they deserve.

[sbp]

Here is the link

http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=588

I think Dell should be Banned from Computing....If Dell should be banned from computing, what should happened to these other companies who are worse? I feel more comfortable saying go with Dell than some of these other brands like Compaq, Gateway, etc.

[DarkFury]

Stupid people shouldn't buy computers....

Tell them to box it up and send it back... we don't want their kind roamin' the internet anyways. :2far:

[johnnymk]

he was claiming it was suckage.

people who don't know much about computers just trust these companies to set them up a package deal without having to upgrade.
:stupid:

If Windows XP requires more RAM, then Dell should state that fact. There are so many variables and configurations in today's computers that even experts can't solve every problem. This is one that should be remedied by Dell, not others.

And since Dell has Dell Home who caters to your average consumer and Dell Small Business who may be more computer savvy, they should make every effort to instruct buyers of potential problems like this. It's not like they just started selling computers yesterday.

[nickel]

So, it's the price people pay for having a cheap computer. Like Dell is only one to do this. HP/Compaq sell 128mb Celerom systems through staples all the time. They sell big.

No one is being held hostage here, and if the consumer buying it doesn't know enough to get it with more ram, I have zero sympathy. I research every major purchase I buy, yet people will pick up a PC with checking into the company, the product, nothing. Stupid consumers get what they deserve.


Stupid people shouldn't buy computers....

Tell them to box it up and send it back... we don't want their kind roamin' the internet anyways. :2far:
you guys are mean :gle:

a lot of people blindly buy dental products thinking they will do what the ad or the package says it will, too.
i know the inside scoop because i have an education in that background.
i would offer to help instead of calling them stupid.

[HmpDeeHmp]

I think there's worse things to be mad at Dell for. All those stupid commercials that Dell kept running with Benjamin Curtis, aka "Steven", were starting to piss me off. "Dude, you're getting a Dell!" was giving me nightmares... I'm so glad he got caught for smoking pot and got yanked from the air... :hihi:

[nickel]

well the Dell intern ones weren't much better :rolleyes: :P

[DarkFury]

you guys are mean :gle:

a lot of people blindly buy dental products thinking they will do what the ad or the package says it will, too.
i know the inside scoop because i have an education in that background.
i would offer to help instead of calling them stupid.
Harrumph....

Next you'll complain that they CHARGE too much for adding extra RAM.

You can't have it BOTH ways... so just deal with it.

"Minimal requirements for minimum budgets.... play it safe... SAFE AUTO!!!"

[bbrian]

If Windows XP requires more RAM, then Dell should state that fact.

Everyone seems to miss the point that microsoft set the minimum requirements for XP, not Dell and Dell is 100% correct in stating 128MB (64MB is the actual MINIMUM, so Dell is following MS' recommendation):
https://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/upgrading/sysreqs.mspx

Usually on the dell pages, dell lists the 512MB of memory as a 'recommended upgrade'

[HmpDeeHmp]

well the Dell intern ones weren't much better :rolleyes: :P

You've got a good point. :D

[DarkFury]

Everyone seems to miss the point that microsoft set the minimum requirements for XP, not Dell and Dell is 100% correct in stating 128MB (64MB is the actual MINIMUM, so Dell is following MS' recommendation):
https://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/upgrading/sysreqs.mspx

Usually on the dell pages, dell lists the 512MB of memory as a 'recommended upgrade'
BINGO!!!!

:stupid:

Pretty much that is what I was thinking as well....

[nickel]

Harrumph....

Next you'll complain that they CHARGE too much for adding extra RAM.

You can't have it BOTH ways... so just deal with it.

"Minimal requirements for minimum budgets.... play it safe... SAFE AUTO!!!"
meanie :gle:

i knew enough to get the upgrades, but my grandparents didn't.
they shouldn't be told because they don't know any better that they shouldn't get a computer or use the internet. :nono:

we should guide them with our expertise.

[_=DeltaForce=_]

Companies like HP, Compaq, Gateway, Emachines, SONY are sold in retail store like iN bestbuy, circuit city, compusa and they mostly tell you that you may need more ram or something like that.... Dell's most models have 128mb ram. so Dell doesnt care about how slow the system is or something like that. My friend's parents bought a Dell computer and they were complaining that from the begining its so slow and freezing all the time.. Throwing in more Ram fixed the problem.. All dell wants to sell stuff cheap and they dont care how it works... I am sure Dell knows that u need atleast 256mb to Run XP smoothly.. THey got to make it standard and not sell 128mb ram with Windows XP.. AND when u call for support, they just tell you that you need more Ram and another $60 bucks + Labor = TOTAL RIP OFF....

And as Nickel said " people who don't know much about computers just trust these companies to set them up a package deal without having to upgrade "That is 100% right cause my friends Parents are not dumb, they both are professors (not related to technology) and they talked to a Dell sales person and that person told them that 128mb is just fine for running windows xp... I know Dell is trying to make a buisness but not like this..

AND 128mb is good just for running WIndows XP, not other applications...

[DarkFury]

meanie :gle:

i knew enough to get the upgrades, but my grandparents didn't.
they shouldn't be told because they don't know any better that they shouldn't get a computer or use the internet. :nono:

we should guide them with our expertise.
Say hello to the bad guy...

And meet my "lil frien..." :D


AND when u call for support, they just tell you that you need more Ram and another $60 bucks + Labor = TOTAL RIP OFF....

Or you find your "computer smart" friend who'll send you the link to Crucial.com to get more memory (for around $60 as Dell will charge you more like $80 - $100) and let them put it in for free. :kaching:


:D

Bottom line is... do you want a Computer for $379... or do you want them to charge you $479 up front with the additonal memory. It's your call at that point. Still... you can decide that up front, and people can READ the terms when they buy on the "CUSTOMIZE IT" button instead of just clicking "BUY NOW". :thumb:

[johnnymk]

An additional 128 MB of RAM can be gotten for $18 shipped at a Pricewatch link. I figure that Dell probably buys memory by the truckload for no more than $3. Figure about 15 seconds labor when assembling the computer at $2 per hour equals 10 cents. If they charge an additional $20, they are still making money, so $80 is a ripoff.

However, I would never complain if I bought one of the package deals posted on the deals pages. It is practically impossible to build a computer cheaper than what Dell charges for these exceptional deals.

[SnowSurfer]

um not to be nit picky but the laptop in question from the article had an amd 1800+ processor (dells only run intel processors), did i miss something or would that make it not a dell laptop, so how would it be dell's fault whats loaded on it???????

[_=DeltaForce=_]

You guys dont understand What I am Braggin about...

people who don't know much about computers just trust these companies to set them up a package deal without having to upgrade.

Some Old couple could totally trust dell get a P4, 128mb ram, windows xp and its gonna be laggy and slow... When they call Tech support, they just say YOU need more ram and its gonna cost so much + labor. Nice Rip Off

Windows XP with 128mb memory + bunch of applications running = Laggy Piece of Sh*t

Dell should give some kind of warning say windows XP with 128 is gonna be laggy

Instead of Looking From Dell's buisness side, look from the old couple side... You know about computers and so you support dell and tell what u get is what is you pay for but what about others who DONT know about computers and have no idea of what even Ram is...

[DarkFury]

Honestly, I think it is YOU who doesn't understand...

Ok... would you send a person who has NEVER driven a car down to the dealership and put them in a Manual transmission versus an automatic? Yes... the manual transmission car IS cheaper than the automatic, but it takes some getting used to.

Does the dealer make sure that you KNOW how to drive a stick before you purchase it? It's just a car right? You gotta know what you are doing when you buy it...

I understand what you are saying... however I still don't see it as a VALID point here.

Dell has several computers that you could "buy now" and get more than 128 MB of RAM... Here's an example:

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/featured_desktop2?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

For $719... http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V588&l=en&oc=D46SO&s=dhs



From the "memory section" of Buy it now...

The 400MHz DDR memory option is available only on systems using a processor with an 800MHz Front Side Bus. When Integrated Graphics is selected, between 32 and 64 MB of shared system memory may be allocated to support graphics, depending on system memory size and other factors.

Option 1) 256MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz (2x128M) (Standard memory... 256MB by default)

Option 2) FREE UPGRADE! 512MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz

Option 3) SAVE $50! 1GB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz (2x512M) [add $117 or $4/month1]

Option 4) SAVE $50! 2GB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz (4x512M) [add $378 or $11/month1]


Now your friends, old folks, or whoever else wants a computer... they can buy this system RIGHT NOW without configuring anything and have 256MB of memory in their PC. Now personally, I want more than that (minimum 512MB upwards to 1GB) but that's just me. It will run fine on 256MB...

However, you are gonna PAY $719 plus shipping for that configuration. Now... you come to G|A and spot a "Dell Deal".... this PC has been stripped to the minimums to give you the lowest possible price.. and then they might give you some "extras" to make the deal sweeter. Now you want to complain that they are selling a "below average" PC at a cut rate price.... I just don't get your logic here.

You STILL can't have it both ways... it can be cheap or it can be "fully loaded", but generally it won't be both (unless you are VERY lucky).

So what is the real problem here? People who don't understand computers but do understand the value of a dollar can't afford to buy the right PC for their needs? That's kinda how I am taking your statements. :shrug:

Sounds to me like the folks you are talking about need to learn more about PCs before they buy... Hell, I get folks at work talkin' to me EVERY DAY about what is the best computer deals out there... and I give them the advice they need to make a SMART decision. However if you want to hand a monkey a gun :monkey: :woo: then don't cry if the monkey ends up shootin' you in the @ss or shoots it's own foot off. :eek:

BTW... like I said earlier, them buying a PC with less than adequate RAM is not a terminal mistake. It can be corrected at minimal cost and they STILL can have a great deal otherwise.... so what is the problem with that?

[ufcrusher]

As others have said, the average user loves the fact that Dell comes preloaded with a bunch of software. Most of the stuff is put on there because the average user wants it and loves the fact that it is included. To sit there and get mad at a company for doing this is stupid. The average customer, who doesnt want the installs, can ask dell NOT to install the extra programs. They will gladly skip it as it saves them time.

As for you RAM issue, the fact that Microsoft says that its more than enough absolves them of some responsibility. Any time you are building a system, you are always told that it is HIGHLY recommended that you increase the RAM. If you choose not to do so, that is at your own peril.

Personally, I hate Dell but that is from the multiple problems I had with 2 top end laptops and the idiotic and useless drivel they claim is tech support. I have no problem with pointing a finger at a real wrong, but this just strikes me as being a bunch of BS.

And yes, the article is a bit confusing as it clealy mentions an AMD notebook at first, but then the writer switches to a Dell to investigate the problem.

[LPMiller]

you guys are mean :gle:

a lot of people blindly buy dental products thinking they will do what the ad or the package says it will, too.
i know the inside scoop because i have an education in that background.
i would offer to help instead of calling them stupid.

Here you said it - blindly. If you don't plan on knowing the basics of a product you are spending good money on, that's your fault. Period. You don't buy a car and get all pissy because apparently it requires gas. Just like people who use politcal ads to make a decision are stupid, people who spend a few hundred bucks without even trying to know what they actually need are only screwing themselves.

[ski]

I am getting tired of these terrible analogies.

A car needs gas for basic operation, a computer needs ELECTRICITY for basic operation, NOT RAM. What you meant to say is that you don't buy a Chevrolet Aveo and expect the performance of a V6 engine.

I don't like the manual transmission analogy either. But oh well :shrug:
Regardless, you should pay attention to the last thing nickel said. Can we resolve to offer people help, even the people that buy a system with 128 MB RAM, help them to understand that they need to buy another stick of RAM for smooth, relatively quick performance, or NEXT TIME, educate themselves. You know, if we took time to help people understand about computers, since all of us are pretty much well-learned on the topic, these "idiots" won't be so naive the next time around (and we probably won't have to have this discussion again). :)

[nickel]

it's kinda like the commercial they have out there now where someone misses the trash basket and there sits a used tissue or something on the ground. everyone is standing around complaining about how stupid it was for someone to miss the basket when it is so closeby. more people keep coming onto the scene, and complaining about the audacity of someone being so lazy that they couldn't just throw their trash into the recepticle.
then a guy walks through picks up the tissue and throws it right into the trash constainer. abruptly all the people gathered around stop talking.

makes ya think.

[johnnymk]

I am getting tired of these terrible analogies.

A car needs gas for basic operation, a computer needs ELECTRICITY for basic operation, NOT RAM. What you meant to say is that you don't buy a Chevrolet Aveo and expect the performance of a V6 engine.

I don't like the manual transmission analogy either. But oh well :shrug:
Regardless, you should pay attention to the last thing nickel said. Can we resolve to offer people help, even the people that buy a system with 128 MB RAM, help them to understand that they need to buy another stick of RAM for smooth, relatively quick performance, or NEXT TIME, educate themselves. You know, if we took time to help people understand about computers, since all of us are pretty much well-learned on the topic, these "idiots" won't be so naive the next time around (and we probably won't have to have this discussion again). :)

If the computer "freezes". then the addiditional RAM is absolutely necessary.
Whether that's the actual solution, I don't know. There could be other issues causing these problems, like viruses, spyware, etc.

[DarkFury]

I am getting tired of these terrible analogies.

A car needs gas for basic operation, a computer needs ELECTRICITY for basic operation, NOT RAM. What you meant to say is that you don't buy a Chevrolet Aveo and expect the performance of a V6 engine.

I don't like the manual transmission analogy either. But oh well :shrug:
Regardless, you should pay attention to the last thing nickel said. Can we resolve to offer people help, even the people that buy a system with 128 MB RAM, help them to understand that they need to buy another stick of RAM for smooth, relatively quick performance, or NEXT TIME, educate themselves. You know, if we took time to help people understand about computers, since all of us are pretty much well-learned on the topic, these "idiots" won't be so naive the next time around (and we probably won't have to have this discussion again). :)

Sorry we didn't give you an analogy to your liking...

Although I was thinkin' about someone buying a 4 cylinder car and then wanting to use that car to pull a trailer...

Or better yet... what about buying a car with some "el cheapo" tires on it... they work great on nice days but absolutely suck in the rain and in the snow. Why doesn't the dealer just go ahead and put high performance "mud and snow" tires on?

Would either of those have been better?

[Cantacuzene]

I agree with the article. They make a good point that computer makers (not just Dell) are selling computers that don't even run at an acceptable minimum. Its not one company's devious plan, its just the cutthroat nature of the industry. The only way to solve this problem 100% is for microsoft to put a "Windows Approved" sticker on every windows loaded pc sold with 512 megs of ram or higher and make that sticker a big selling point, which shouldnt be hard. Does that make sense to anyone else?

[Bires]

Stupid people shouldn't buy computers...

The longer I live on this planet that is so dense in stupidity, the more I aggree with this statement.

People that research their automobile purchases before going to the dealer get a good deal on a car they want with the options they want. People that just go and buy a cute little red one get screwed by the dealers because they are unprepared and ignorant. We accept this. Why should computers be different?

[LPMiller]

I am getting tired of these terrible analogies.

k.


A car needs gas for basic operation, a computer needs ELECTRICITY for basic operation, NOT RAM. What you meant to say is that you don't buy a Chevrolet Aveo and expect the performance of a V6 engine.

No, I said what I meant. If I meant something else, I'd have said it. The analogy was good enough, obviously, since you understood it well enough to not like it.


I don't like the manual transmission analogy either. But oh well :shrug:
Regardless, you should pay attention to the last thing nickel said. Can we resolve to offer people help, even the people that buy a system with 128 MB RAM, help them to understand that they need to buy another stick of RAM for smooth, relatively quick performance, or NEXT TIME, educate themselves. You know, if we took time to help people understand about computers, since all of us are pretty much well-learned on the topic, these "idiots" won't be so naive the next time around (and we probably won't have to have this discussion again). :)


I do this all the time. I do it in my reviews. I do it on the news page. I do it in person. I clock the Best Buy guy on the back of the head and corner the consumer in the CD blanks isle and edify them.

It doesn't change the fact that it's their responsibility to know this stuff when they go shopping. Or ask someone they trust to help them. People take me shopping all the time because they dont' know what they need, just like kids have their dads take them to the car dealership. Buyer beware. If people cannot do the research - and lets face it, it's a pretty damn easy thing to do - or don't know a friendly nerd that can help them, then they aren't doing the work and deserve it when they get screwed. It's not like we woke up one morning and went, "damn, it's a consumer society! When did that happen?"

[ski]

No, I said what I meant. If I meant something else, I'd have said it. The analogy was good enough, obviously, since you understood it well enough to not like it.
Didn't get the memo that you were omniscient. :P Sorry that we disagree with viewing how two pieces of machinery work. You were comparing trying to compare a service to a vehicle with hardware differences.

In order for a car to run at a bare minimum performance level, you can pretty much buy any new model. A Chevy Aveo will not perform as well as a Mercedes Benz, but that's what the pricing is for; components in the machine. ALL cars need fuel to run.

In order for a PC to run at a bare minimum performance level, you can pretty much buy any new model. An Dimension 2400 will not perform as well as an Alienware, but that's what the pricing is for; components in the machine. ALL PC's need electricity to run.

I believe you said "You don't buy a car and get all pissy because apparently it requires gas," so this is response to only this remark. I'm not sure if I'm coming across clearly, or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say with your gas analogy.



I do this all the time. I do it in my reviews. I do it on the news page. I do it in person. I clock the Best Buy guy on the back of the head and corner the consumer in the CD blanks isle and edify them.

I have read most of your reviews, and I'm thankful that you take the time (and probably get compensated somehow) to educate people. I wish more consumers would read articles like yours to understand what kind of performance they should aim for and what to get. I know GotApex is more of a performance-oriented site than a family PC one, but with Apex's hookup with Dell, maybe you could eventually review different models of computers so people can see how much difference upgrading the default 128 MB RAM will help.



Sorry we didn't give you an analogy to your liking...

Although I was thinkin' about someone buying a 4 cylinder car and then wanting to use that car to pull a trailer...

Or better yet... what about buying a car with some "el cheapo" tires on it... they work great on nice days but absolutely suck in the rain and in the snow. Why doesn't the dealer just go ahead and put high performance "mud and snow" tires on?

Would either of those have been better?

Oh, I agree with both of those, but the nuance with the manual transmission is that it's not as parallel as RAM is with a computer. Your other two analogies are right on, strictly performance oriented. Sorry, not a huge deal.