WTF? Boy, 11, charged in sexual assault of senior

[IrishSS]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/22/elderly.assault.ap/index.html

MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin (AP) -- An 11-year-old boy was charged Wednesday with sexually assaulting a 76-year-old neighborhood woman in her home as three of his friends stood watch.
Police said that for a week before the attack, the boys had been "terrorizing" the woman in her house, repeatedly breaking in and taking cash and other items.

The woman, who lived alone, told police she was taking a sponge bath in the kitchen Friday when the 11-year-old walked in, demanded money and then ordered her to take off her clothes and go into the bedroom, according to court papers.

The boy's brother, a 13-year-old who was among the three other boys also charged, said he heard the woman say: "I'm just an old, half-crippled lady, I'm not going."

The woman said the 11-year-old put on a condom and tried to rape her, followed by a second boy.

The 11-year-old was charged in juvenile court with sexual assault and being a party to burglary and criminal trespassing. The other boys -- ages 11, 12 and 13 -- were charged with being a party to burglary and criminal trespassing.

In court Wednesday, the 11-year-old facing the less serious charges called out, "Hi, Mom" after spotting his adoptive mother.

"I'm very hurt because my son was raised as a good boy," she said outside court. She complained that police abused the boys to obtain confessions.
----------------------------------------

I can say nothing but WTF? :eek3:

[_=DeltaForce=_]

I can say nothing but WTF? :eek3:

:stupid:

[ski]

Someone explain their reasoning on why a handful of boys not yet even in their teenage years do this nowadays. TV? Internet? They are learning this sexual behavior somewhere.

[bachviet]

:stupid:
:stupid: x2

[ialsohaveadream]

I think I just vomitted a little in my mouth.

[_=DeltaForce=_]

This is really shocking to me..... Just imagine the culture 10 years from now... This is getting worse

[Mike_N_Ike]

"I'm very hurt because my son was raised as a good boy," she said outside court. She complained that police abused the boys to obtain confessions.
No sympathy for you there lady :shrug:

If the kid is still alive and able to reproduce, I think he could have taken a bit more abuse.

[kimchicowboy]

"I'm very hurt because my son was raised as a good boy," she said outside court. She complained that police abused the boys to obtain confessions.

way to pass on the blame.

[YanksFanRy]

I am practically speechless. Not only is this disgusting but absolutely disturbing... Where does it stop?

[RoniMan]

there was an episode on Law and Order about this...really disturbing...

[ShawnLee]

Great thing to read after lunch. Kudos to the parents for raising them so well.

[Showtime]

Can they be rehabilitated? They are definitely going to do some time and that never seems to help people. I think those kids are learn a lot about rape.

-j

[Maarchk]

Wow its scary. I think that kids are getting a year more mature every 4-5 years that society goes on recently. But mature not in a learning to act adult, but mature in that they are acting like what they see on tv and internet. Maybe its just more avilable and so anyone can learn to act like a slut or be a big tough boy and make a woman do what they want... Thats pretty terrible.. I think its time to move to my happy desserted island. :) And not bring any form of media with me.

[ski]

And not bring any form of media with me.
I'd bring MOST of my media with me! Family guy/Seinfeld episodes, all my MP3's, etc. :P

[Maarchk]

I'd bring MOST of my media with me! Family guy/Seinfeld episodes, all my MP3's, etc. :P

Hmm well i would probably let you onto my island. I suppose i should have said no media persons. :) And if i ever get my hp ipod, that baby is coming with me till the grave.

[welfareloser]

this has nothing to do with "today's kids." these kids are aberrations, and there have always been aberrations just like them.

even without the media, they'd know how to have sex. that's what demented big brothers are for.

as for the woman's quote... you don't know how much the three "tag-along" kids actually had to do with it. they may have helped plan it and been next in line to rape, or they may have been told "hey, wanna see something cool?" "what?" "i'm not gonna tell you, you just have to come see." at which point they may have tried to leave and been stopped, or may have been shocked and unable to figure out what to do (this one is the msot likely... do you know how hard it is for 99% of kids that age to speak up when they see something wrong happening to themselves, let alone to others?????) or they may have thought it was the coolest thing they'd ever seen. who knows?

the police had no business abusing kids for confessions, if that is in fact what happened. kids are so apt to say what they think adults want to hear, that it totally obliterates any chance of getting the truth, which is *supposed* to be what the cops are actually interested in... not saying that's what happened, jsut saying that the "rah rah cops shoulda abused em MORE!" bandwagon is a stupid, stupid, stupid place to be.

[Fas-ligand]

I think the key to this situation was "MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin".

I don't think drinking ages exist up there. mmm....Beer goggles.... :cheers: I mean...:bash:

[InfiniteNothing]

Dude, Got|Morals?

Rape wrong.
Rape helpless people worse

[BigJon]

W....T....F.....?!?! :eek2: :disa:

[nickel]

i hate to say it cause i sound like my parents... or grandparents even, but ---

it's due to the internet. you can find granny porn all over easily. it puts ideas into young minds.

and :puke: x a billion

[Cantacuzene]

Punishment should fit the crime, right? Go send them to one of Ski's neighborhood public bathrooms and let an elderly man rape them.

[ialsohaveadream]

Correction, Canta- it's the middle school bathrooms in Ski's neighborhood. :)

[LPMiller]

Someone explain their reasoning on why a handful of boys not yet even in their teenage years do this nowadays. TV? Internet? They are learning this sexual behavior somewhere.

The same thing that caused it in the old days - bad parents. It's not like all of today's kids suddenly became sex fiends. You want some really sick behaviour by kids and adults, go back to Alexander the Great. Or the Egyptian era. The underlining reasons for why adults and or kids are bastards comes down to who made them, raised them and sent them off into the world. Blaming it on TV or the internet or video games or that jive rock and roll music or james dean or zoot suits or flappers or the telephone or horseless carriages or injuns or witches or protestants or quakers or the huns or the gauls or grendel or whatEVER is just a great way to not address the problem.

[ski]

Punishment should fit the crime, right? Go send them to one of Ski's neighborhood public bathrooms and let an elderly man rape them.
I hope you're saying that in jest... :disa:

... otherwise you hold the title for most-prolonged ignorance, which is uncharacteristic of you usually :P

[nickel]

The same thing that caused it in the old days - bad parents. It's not like all of today's kids suddenly became sex fiends. You want some really sick behaviour by kids and adults, go back to Alexander the Great. Or the Egyptian era. The underlining reasons for why adults and or kids are bastards comes down to who made them, raised them and sent them off into the world. Blaming it on TV or the internet or video games or that jive rock and roll music or james dean or zoot suits or flappers or the telephone or horseless carriages or injuns or witches or protestants or quakers or the huns or the gauls or grendel or whatEVER is just a great way to not address the problem.
c'mon LP you kinda have your head in the sand. granted it does have to do with bad parenting, but don't downplay the effect of the internet, aka easily obtained porn, as a part in a crime such as this.

[ski]

c'mon LP you kinda have your head in the sand. granted it does have to do with bad parenting, but don't downplay the effect of the internet, aka easily obtained porn, as a part in a crime such as this.
agreed...

do you really think these kids got the idea of raping an old lady from their parents? probably not...

however, the parents probably didn't bother to monitor their child's internet activity, and even that has limited effects. This is an example where you could put on the label of bad parenting. In this case, it involves the kids getting the idea from somewhere, and my two hunches are either the internet/any other form of media or their parents... so it indeed does have to to with the internet partially IMO.

[blueindian]

so when this same crime happened somtime last century, which i'd be willing to bet my life savings on, was it the internet's fault then too?

[ski]

so when this same crime happened somtime last century, which i'd be willing to bet my life savings on, was it the internet's fault then too?
Did it?

All that I am saying is that it's a learned behavior, and it's coming from somewhere. You might also notice that I never said the internet was a definite cause. It is a good possibility, but the children learn their behavior somewhere, and while a child bully can often traced back to an abusive parent, I just don't see sexual delinquency being something learned from parents AS OFTEN as other actions. :shrug:

[blueindian]

i don't think anyone has to "teach" sexual delinquency. it just happens. i man, we all learned how to pleasure ourselves (not saying that's delinquency) and i sure as hell hope that nobody's parent's taught them how to do it.

some people are born with twisted minds.

[ialsohaveadream]

so when this same crime happened somtime last century, which i'd be willing to bet my life savings on, was it the internet's fault then too?

:stupid: It's just like with school shootings. Did they suddenly start occuring when Marilyn Manson came out?

This article (http://www2.bc.edu/~lusignab/shooting.html) tries to prove it's not the media's fault, and includes this paragraph:



Also, while the baby-boomer generation was raised on the more wholesome music of the fifties, they led a sexual revolution in the 1960s, they increased the use of drugs dramatically, and they brought on the greatest crime wave in American history (Chapman 14). Clearly, wholesome entertainment does not lead to wholesome activity. The reverse is also true. There is little or no correlation between the sadomasochistic message of some modern music and actual violent trends in youth. Between 1980 and 1992 the suicide rate for those between the ages of 15 and 19 rose twenty-eight percent, while the rate for young adults (20-24) fell seven percent (Chapman 15). No one has endeavored to blame this drop on the media, while the rise in the younger age group is immediately pasted squarely on its corporate face.

And for just a hint of the immense number of factors that influence these f**ked up kids, there's this cool matrix outlining the characteristics of recent school shooters. (http://www.holology.com/matrix.html)

[gwilks98]

i don't think anyone has to "teach" sexual delinquency.


I hear people mention all the time that the lack of a presence of a male figure in a household with a growing boy can be determental to his mental growth. I'm not saying it is in this case, especially since the article makes no mention of it. But you have to wonder, where is dad?

Did anyone else find it odd the 11 year old had condoms and knew how to use them? Sounds like this kid was a delinquent long in the making.

[nickel]

i don't think anyone has to "teach" sexual delinquency. it just happens. i man, we all learned how to pleasure ourselves (not saying that's delinquency) and i sure as hell hope that nobody's parent's taught them how to do it.

some people are born with twisted minds.
so you think the internet has made no contribution in teaching these delinquents what to do?
sure there are some who are twisted and come up with the idea on their own, but do you think granny porn had any chance of giving these punks the nudge?

[cheapie]

:stupid:


there's no ****ing way that a kid would have done this 100 years ago.

[blueindian]

nickel: i don't know, i'm not saying that it definatly did not have something to do with it; i'm saying it's not a forgone conclusion.

cheapie: i disagree. as i said before i'd be willing to be this in not the first time this has happend. i tried to search for it briefly but found nothing. if i have some more time later maybe i'll try again.

[LegendKiller]

This stuff has been happening since the beginning of time. Nothing has changed but the exposure through media and the number of them that has increased with the population.

If the media reports EVERY one of these in the last 40 years and the population was 150m (don't know) in 1964 but is 280 now, then the absolute number is going to increase along with greater social awareness due to media.

My dad once told me a story about how they used to throw .22 shells down the furnace at school and hear them explode. My dad has raised 3 good kids that aren't deviants, yet he did that stuff when he was a kid.

Kids do stupid stuff all of the time, some are worse than others. The net has nothing to do with behavior, its parents and the overall structure of society, but it really comes down to genetics and chemical imbalances.

Some people just aren't wired straight, its a psychological fact.


LK

[ski]

If you could entertain the possibility for one minute that a child/teen seeing a video of a few men bonin' a granny would POSSIBLY lead to getting the idea for this act, could we agree then?

I'm not saying it happened. We don't really know anything. I think it's a possibility these things could be learned from odd media; I think it's a possibility that the way the parents raised the kid might have attributed to its occurrence; and while I don't think it's much of a possibility that this kid was "born to rape an elderly woman", I'll let you take the benefit of the doubt and go with it's possible.

Are we getting closer to being on the same page at least?

It's times like these I wish I would have chosen to major in Sociology or Psychology, but about the only thing that it would do me good is to make points on internet bulletin boards :bonk: :P

[nickel]

and while we are on the subject

granny porn :puke: x a billion

[LegendKiller]

If you could entertain the possibility for one minute that a child/teen seeing a video of a few men bonin' a granny would POSSIBLY lead to getting the idea for this act, could we agree then?

I'm not saying it happened. We don't really know anything. I think it's a possibility these things could be learned from odd media; I think it's a possibility that the way the parents raised the kid might have attributed to its occurrence; and while I don't think it's much of a possibility that this kid was "born to rape an elderly woman", I'll let you take the benefit of the doubt and go with it's possible.

Are we getting closer to being on the same page at least?

It's times like these I wish I would have chosen to major in Sociology or Psychology, but about the only thing that it would do me good is to make points on internet bulletin boards :bonk: :P

Nobody is born to do a certain thing, there is a balance between nature and nuture. The kids most likely have a mental imbalance which is compounded by a crappy environment to live in.

Do you think that living environments created Dahmer, Burkowitz, and other serial kills/mass murderers? No, they were messed up from the beginning.

Most likely this wasn't an act targeting the old woman but an attack against ANY women. Or it could be an attack against the type of women they felt let down by, older grandmother or mother types. I HIGHLY doubt it was a *targeted* attack which was premeditated.

Old women are easier to attack, especially for a gang of kids. Furthermore, they were probably bored.

We saw many cases like this during my abnormal psych classes in undergrad. Some people are just messed up, it is up to society to identify them and try to mitigate the issues they cause. However, most are good at submerging or putting a facade up that hides their issues.

LK

[nickel]

you say nobody is born to do a certain thing but then say serial killers/mass murderers are messed up from the beginning. :shrug:

LK, do you believe there is such a thing as a natural born killer and that it can be genetic?

[ski]

Furthermore, they were probably bored.
Definitely agree with you there.

[ialsohaveadream]

:stupid:

there's no ****ing way that a kid would have done this 100 years ago.

I'm with BI. I would be willing to bet that a similar situation occurred a century ago, but it wasn't as widely publicized. The only major media at that time would've been newspapers, so you couldn't immediately link the story to all your friends and have the whole country talking about it.

People like to romanticize the past as a time of less crime, lower teen pregnancies, less delinquent behaviors, etc. But there have always been screwed up people, regardless of the time period, and when statistics are available, it's generally true that things used to be worse in these categories.


and while we are on the subject
granny porn :puke: x a billion

Ew. Exactly. So can we get off that subject? :)

[ShawnLee]

and while we are on the subject

granny porn :puke: x a billionI don't know... Hmm...

J/K I'm just kidding.
Hahaha.

Still, I've got to say. When the time comes that I'm in my seventies and my wife is as well. At that point, I daresay, I'm sure granny porn wouldn't be half as disgusting as it is now.

[LegendKiller]

you say nobody is born to do a certain thing but then say serial killers/mass murderers are messed up from the beginning. :shrug:

LK, do you believe there is such a thing as a natural born killer and that it can be genetic?

I don't believe there is a natural born killer as much as I believe there are imbalanced people that have the possibility of developing into one as a result of environmental factors.

I said that nobody is born to do a *certain* thing, as in nobody is born to rape old ladies or become cannibal serial murderers.

LK

[InfiniteNothing]

That is correct. Most evidence sugestest that personality traits such as these require both the genetics and the environment.

[LPMiller]

I have my head in the sand?

Or is it that I know a little history?

People are great at blaming symptoms for problems, which is why we keep getting the same problems over and over again. When youth crime went up in the 50s, they blamed both the rise of rock and roll music, and comic books (see book: The Seduction of the Innocent) for doing so. So we had people raiding stores and burning albums, and we had the comics code come into play to completely sanitize comics. And yet, youth crime still happened.

It's very easy to point at one thing and say, "This is the problem, because we didn't have this 10 years ago," but crime goes in waves, just like any thing else. Grandma's have been getting raped since time began, because rapists aren't in it for the sex, they are in it for the domination and control, and the elderly are easy targets. You don't need the internet to know that.

There has never been a strong link between "monkey see, monkey do". While it may give the nutjob an idea, it's not like he wasn't going to do something to begin with. Some people are just plain not right in the head. Some people have crapass parents and a crapass life and want to gain some control. These two things lead to crime, nothing else.

You can treat the symptoms of it all you want. Ban the internet. Ban video games and porn. Ban rock and roll. But treating symptoms doesn't cure the patient. You can take all the sudefed you want for that stuffy noise, it's not going to cure the flu.

If you don't think there were kids raping grandma's 100, 200, 300 years ago, you don't know your history. Kids may look cute, but any parent will tell you they ain't innocents. They are little selfish psychotics with no moral center, which is kinda of the whole point of parenting to begin with.


I don't believe there is a natural born killer as much as I believe there are imbalanced people that have the possibility of developing into one as a result of environmental factors.

I said that nobody is born to do a *certain* thing, as in nobody is born to rape old ladies or become cannibal serial murderers.

LK

I disagree. There is such a thing as a bad seed. Sometimes, genetics just gets all screwed up.

[Cantacuzene]

:stupid:


there's no ****ing way that a kid would have done this 100 years ago.

Why this type of stuff happening in history is well documented. Heck the Roman emperor Elagabalus prostituted himself to men in the forum and wanted to have an artificial vagina cut into his body. And he was only 14. Sexual depravity, despite what religious fundamentalists want you to think, is nothing new.

[nickel]

I have my head in the sand?

Or is it that I know a little history?

People are great at blaming symptoms for problems, which is why we keep getting the same problems over and over again. When youth crime went up in the 50s, they blamed both the rise of rock and roll music, and comic books (see book: The Seduction of the Innocent) for doing so. So we had people raiding stores and burning albums, and we had the comics code come into play to completely sanitize comics. And yet, youth crime still happened.

It's very easy to point at one thing and say, "This is the problem, because we didn't have this 10 years ago," but crime goes in waves, just like any thing else. Grandma's have been getting raped since time began, because rapists aren't in it for the sex, they are in it for the domination and control, and the elderly are easy targets. You don't need the internet to know that.

There has never been a strong link between "monkey see, monkey do". While it may give the nutjob an idea, it's not like he wasn't going to do something to begin with. Some people are just plain not right in the head. Some people have crapass parents and a crapass life and want to gain some control. These two things lead to crime, nothing else.

You can treat the symptoms of it all you want. Ban the internet. Ban video games and porn. Ban rock and roll. But treating symptoms doesn't cure the patient. You can take all the sudefed you want for that stuffy noise, it's not going to cure the flu.

If you don't think there were kids raping grandma's 100, 200, 300 years ago, you don't know your history. Kids may look cute, but any parent will tell you they ain't innocents. They are little selfish psychotics with no moral center, which is kinda of the whole point of parenting to begin with.



I disagree. There is such a thing as a bad seed. Sometimes, genetics just gets all screwed up.
heh LP, i never said kids with a tendency became deliquent only since the dawn of internet porn. i just thought you were discrediting it's significance.
it does put ideas in their heads PERIOD.
i never said banning it was a cure-all either. :shrug:

[ski]

I think Canta is the only one who would know, so correct me if I am wrong.

From my many years of classical history classes, I have learned that in Rome and Greece, it was quite common for men (16 to 30) to molest little boys (8 to 12). Have you learned the same? I don't recall the names of the textbooks at the moment. If anyone else has knowledge of this, jump in, but I suppose I am looking to see that if these troubled men ages ago had been subjected to molestation at a younger age, there may or may not be a connection to sexually deviant behavior later in life. It will be very hard to find this out, but I have to remain at a questionable state until someone can moderately prove that there is ZERO relationship between one's experiences/environment and their sexually deviant behavior. And once again, I am trying to phrase this in a clear way so that you know that just because I oppose a view, does not mean I support a completely opposite (this happens on here a LOT). I just want to see if the prospect of environamental variables along the line of questioning "where did they get it?" can be entertained, as well as other people's argument of "it just happens." That way, we can both be happy. :gle:

EDIT: Found the source:


"In most Greek communities the women were kept at home, and men spent their days with other men or boys. Artists paid special attention to the nude masculine form; and pederasty abounded. It was far more favored than homosexual relations between men and youths of the same age, and indeed a whole philosophy was built up around the pederastic situation, founded on the concept that the lover was the beloved's educator and military trainer."

- "The Founders of the Western World: A History of Greece and Rome," by Michael Grant

[blueindian]

I think Canta is the only one who would know, so correct me if I am wrong.

From my many years of classical history classes, I have learned that in Rome and Greece, it was quite common for men (16 to 30) to molest little boys (8 to 12). Have you learned the same? I don't recall the names of the textbooks at the moment. If anyone else has knowledge of this, jump in, but I suppose I am looking to see that if these troubled men ages ago had been subjected to molestation at a younger age, there may or may not be a connection to sexually deviant behavior later in life. It will be very hard to find this out, but I have to remain at a questionable state until someone can moderately prove that there is ZERO relationship between one's experiences/environment and their sexually deviant behavior. And once again, I am trying to phrase this in a clear way so that you know that just because I oppose a view, does not mean I support a completely opposite (this happens on here a LOT). I just want to see if the prospect of environamental variables along the line of questioning "where did they get it?" can be entertained, as well as other people's argument of "it just happens." That way, we can both be happy. :gle:

EDIT: Found the source:


nobody has said there is zero relationship. on the contrary our assertions have spoken to the fact that there is no direct realtionship between tv/internet and deviant behaviour.

in direct answer to your first question: they aren't necessarily learning it from anywhere.

it's kind of like this: if you say they must have been taught/exposed to it, who taught them? and who taught the person that taught them? and who taught the. . .you get the point. sombody had to think of it first. and surely if one person can think of something deviant so can 10, 100, or 1000 others.

[ski]

if you say they must have been taught/exposed to it, who taught them? and who taught the person that taught them? and who taught the. . .you get the point. sombody had to think of it first. and surely if one person can think of something deviant so can 10, 100, or 1000 others.
I agree, but I don't think anyone's latest said they must :P

But I do recall you saying "i don't think anyone has to "teach" sexual delinquency. it just happens." ;) On a somewhat related note of your comment towards learning how to pleasure yourself, a thread that was properly placed in Softer Side about that was deleted without explanation. :hmm: Looks like a possible double standard on this board, or the only moderator who was on at the time (and he shall remain nameless) has some kind of grudge against my post and not yours. :shrug:

I'm glad to see we're almost reaching common ground though.

[molecularfire]

I agree with the multifactorial people. IMO, we're born wired with a varying susceptibility to do this kind of stuff and get pushed one way or another with what we see/experience in life. There are probably some people who are so far shifted in one direction or another that doing or not doing these kinds of actions are inevitable, but IMO they are the vast, vast, vast, vast minority of humans on earth. However, I fail to see how this is relevant. Let's look at the possible options.

1) Some people are just born bad - Other than finding out a way of detecting them and aborting them (which we aren't capable of and even if we were, it would be a morally debatable subject) there isn't really anything we can do about it. No point in wasting our time on stuff we can't do anything about.

2) Bad parenting - I'm pretty sure that everybody here agrees that this is at least partially responsible. Still, what are we going to do about it? I have been proposing that we have better screening criteria and enforcement to select for people that would be good parents and prevent people who we think would be bad parents from having kids and have been called a sociopath for it (probably accurately). We aren't willing to jail parents when their kids do bad, we aren't going to have requirements on what is a minimum standard of competency that people must meet before they can become parents (other than the if you can't figure out how to have sex, you're probably too dumb to have kids). Short of coming at their kids with a meat cleaver, we as a society don't want to get involved. It's easier for us to just read articles, wag our fingers and feel better about ourselves. Simple fact is that we as a society are not willing to do what is necessary to fix this part of the equation.

3) Bad secondary parenting (i.e. TV, schools, internet, etc...) - There is debate on how much of a factor this is. To be honest, I don't know how much of a factor this is. Are kids who watch violence/sex on TV more likely to participate in these activities, yes. There have been studies that show that people who watch movies/porn, whatever that present women in a subservient position have a lower opinion of women. The thing though is that this is something that we can deal with. This is the only part of the equation that we as a society are willing to work at. Was there stuff like this happening before Al Gore invented the internet, I wasn't there but I'd be shocked if there wasn't. The internet, TV, whatever isn't the only way that children could have exposure to bad stuff. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't do anything to prevent it. The question is are the violence, sex, etc... on TV, internet, radio, etc... contributing in any way. If you honestly think that it has zero contribution then I can see your logic in not doing anything about it. Otherwise, IMO you have to say to yourself... well... even if it only makes up 10% of the problems, it's the only 10% that we as a society are willing to do anything about.

So, IMO it doesn't matter how much a factor bad parenting or genetics are because we aren't going to do anything about it. The secondary parenting are the only things we are willing to do anything about, so we have to go at those issues.

[LPMiller]

heh LP, i never said kids with a tendency became deliquent only since the dawn of internet porn. i just thought you were discrediting it's significance.
it does put ideas in their heads PERIOD.
i never said banning it was a cure-all either. :shrug:

The voices in their head put ideas in their heads too. The blowing breeze puts ideas in their head. Hell, the bible puts ideas in their head. Focusing on naked pics of grandma on the internet is not going to solve anything.

If people want to work on solutions, they need to start with the premise that people are broken, and work on fixing that.

[nickel]

oy! you missed my point again.

[Showtime]

you say nobody is born to do a certain thing but then say serial killers/mass murderers are messed up from the beginning. :shrug:

LK, do you believe there is such a thing as a natural born killer and that it can be genetic?

Some people have a propensity to be violent. Some killers have been documented to be very calm while committing viloent acts. But most of it is conditioning. You take person A and put him in a good growing enivronment and he turns out fine. You put the same person in a bad environment and he turns out really bad. Take person B and put them in a bad growing environment and they may end up a little f'd up, but they don't become murderers.

I blame the parents here. Before this became an attempted rape, these kids were going into the house and stealing and tormenting an old lady. They got bored with that and wanted to take it to another level. One kid who was or wasn't looking at porn brought up raping her. None of the other kids had the guts, brains, wisdom, etc. to say not to do it. The parents didn't teach them any morals. It became The Lord of the Flies in middle America.

Where do we teach kids good morals nowadays anyways?

-j

[ski]

Where do we teach kids good morals nowadays anyways?

One possibility is religion. From my experience, it kept me on the good side of tracks growing up.

Some people may say common sense. I'm not sure of other places to teach kids good morals though.

[LPMiller]

oy! you missed my point again.

No I didn't. You may say you weren't saying it causes anything, but even by pointing it out, you make the same mistake, looking for the easy answer.

There aren't any.

[nickel]

No I didn't. You may say you weren't saying it causes anything, but even by pointing it out, you make the same mistake, looking for the easy answer.

There aren't any.
don't underestimate what i have to say. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/BedBunny/hand.gif

[Nija]

Some people may say common sense. I'm not sure of other places to teach kids good morals though.

AT FREAKIN' HOME!!!!

[LegendKiller]

I disagree. There is such a thing as a bad seed. Sometimes, genetics just gets all screwed up.


I agree that there is such a thing as a bad seed, but I do not think they ALWAYS turn out to be bad. Some can go through their lives fine, others have experiences that push them over the top.

Its like the whole cloning thing. People think that somebody that is cloned will turn out the same way as the previous person. This is a HUGE mistake in logic. Think of all of the cumulative instances of learning throughout your life and how they affect the way you learn, sense, and feel. Without the EXACT stimuli even the worst seed won't turn out the same, Dahmer wouldn't be Dahmer, Gein wouldn't be Gein without the same teachings throughout life.

One thing that pisses me off about kids these days is what parents do to them. EVERYBODY thinks that asians make better engineers or mathemeticians. However, its this idea spread by parents that "I am bad at math" that is propagated throughout offspring that puts a handicap in place for children.

Another extreme example is India. My roommate during 02 internship out in CA with Seagate was an Elec Engineer from UnivOfMinn. He told me that the culture over there is "If your not an engineer, finance, or math, you are not my kid". Sure, its a bit harsh, but they DO develop more of those people. Lib arts is STRICTLY discouraged.

Yes, genetics plays a part, but it is also cuture and parents that play an equally important part.


As far as the whole "Internet exposes children to Granny porn". I think this is BS. Sexual deviants, as Canta et al have pointed out, have existed throughout time. Again, I highly doubt the kids went in that house with the idea "Wow, I just saw a hawt granny porn, lets go get us a piece". I think its more of a power trip to be able to dominate, humiliate, and victimize a woman who is most like the people that probably failed these kids.

"HAH, you are not so right, you are not powerful, and i can do what I want, when I want, and how I want to you".


LK

[Showtime]

Deviants are more prolific now that they have an arena to discuss and act out their fantasies. Before the inet, if you were hot for very old women and told people, you would be labled a freak or the town perv. Now whatever sick and twisted thing you can think of, there are going to be others online willing to discuss it. Eventually anyone can find some person or group curious about the same things or already acting out those things. Unfortunately it's only going to get worse.

The problem with porn is that some people see it and use it with little or no side effects. Some move on fetishes or to more hardcore stuff. Others move toward various deviant behaviors. Though the last group is small percentage wise, their numbers are steadily growing. It's a scary thought to me and it looks like there's nothing that can be done to change where this world is heading.

-j

[ialsohaveadream]

Now whatever sick and twisted thing you can think of, there are going to be others online willing to discuss it. Eventually anyone can find some person or group curious about the same things or already acting out those things. Unfortunately it's only going to get worse.


You say that like it's a bad thing. I'd much rather some fetishist be able to find someone with a similar interest through the internet than practice that fetish on someone against his/her will.

As long as it's between two consenting adults, I don't care if my next door neighbor enjoys coating his balls in syrup and painting his name on some guy's back with them.

[nickel]

Aunt Jemima syrup?

[ialsohaveadream]

Hey now, let's not go dragging Aunt Jemima's good name through the balls here... ;)

[nickel]

gotta be better than putting peanut butter there :P

[ialsohaveadream]

Heeeeeeeere puppy puppy puppy....

Wow. Can this thread go a little further into the gutter?

[nickel]

nope :P

unless you start barking like a dog

[ialsohaveadream]

Since I think this thread was successfullly hijacked, does anyone else here readSavage Love? (http://www.thestranger.com/current/savage.html)

That peanut butter reference just reminded me of this column, one of my favorites. (http://www.thestranger.com/1999-03-25/savage.html)

[blueindian]

The problem with porn is that some people see it and use it with little or no side effects. Some move on fetishes or to more hardcore stuff. Others move toward various deviant behaviors. Though the last group is small percentage wise, their numbers are steadily growing.

-j


you got any data to back that claim up? particularly the growing percentage part.