Marvel Sues City of Heroes a la Music Industry vs Napster

[mcs328]

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-11-11-marvel-sues-over-avatars_x.htm

Marvel sues two companies over role-playing game
By Alex Veiga, Associated Press
LOS ANGELES — Marvel Enterprises is suing two firms behind a computer superhero role-playing game it claims allows players to make virtual characters that are too similar to "The Hulk," "X-Men" and other heroes in the comic book company's stable.
The lawsuit claims South Korea-based NCSoft and San Jose-based Cryptic Studios violated Marvel's trademark characters in their game City of Heroes. Marvel seeks unspecified damages and an injunction against the two companies to stop using its characters.

The personal computer game enables players to design superheroes' look and abilities and then battle against other players' characters in a virtual city. Like similar so-called massively multiplayer role-playing games where thousands of players can be playing simultaneously at any given time, City of Heroes claims to offer a myriad of combinations so that no two players' characters are exactly the same.

But in its lawsuit, filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court, Marvel argues that the game's character creation engine easily allows players to design characters that are virtual copies of its own superheros, including "The Incredible Hulk."

The company singles out a game feature for creating "a gigantic, green, 'science-based tanker'-type hero that moves and behaves nearly identically" to the "Hulk." Players can also create a "mutant-based" hero powers and a costume nearly identical to Marvel's "Wolverine," according to the suit.

The New York-based company also took issue with the ability of players to go so far as to name their superhero creations after Marvel comic book characters.

Marvel claims the firms' are responsible because the game is played on servers operated by the companies, raising the question of whether a company is responsible for their customers' actions on its computer server.

Marvel also claims the companies have disrupted its "existing and future" business prospects for licensing its characters in video games similar to City of Heroes.

An e-mail sent to NCSoft seeking comment was not immediately returned after-hours Thursday. No number was listed for Cryptic Studios.

The Marvel lawsuit appears to be the first to raise this question in the scope of an online game. But early copyright infringement lawsuits brought by recording companies against pioneer file-sharing service Napster successfully argued Napster was liable for its customers' sharing of music online because they could do so only by accessing the company's computer system.

The argument can still be made that City of Heroes is only empowering users to the same degree that an establishment like Kinkos enables customers to make paper copies of copyrighted material, said Fred von Lohmann, senior intellectual property attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

"Is it a violation of copyright to make up a character in the virtual world or is that fair use?" von Lohmann said. "This is really untested ground in the courts."
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Gee...you can't even name your imaginary character the same? Ridiculous!!

[Merlin]

The naming is a bit too far but I can understand where Marvel is coming from. If you can buy a game from someone else and create their characters on it then they should be in on it.

[gear02]

Marvel has this reputation of seriously screwing it's fans with stupid things like this...maybe they've hired the RIAA's lawyers...

[Cantacuzene]

This is retarded. Why didn't they sue Freedom Force for allowing people to create skins of Marvel heroes and import them to the game with exactly the same powers? I'm sure this is simply a matter of people who don't actually play the game or really know anything about it hearing or seeing something about it and suing before thinking.

[mcs328]

Well....Nintendo has gone as far as suing someone who said their favorite game or game system was Nintendo(games) on their 'blog' site. It was mentioned over at Penny-Arcade but I can't link to it because 1) I can't find the link and 2) the "blogger" in question has the comment on his/her favorite game hosted by a softcore website.

Since then Nintendo has taken back it's lawsuit and apologized and doesn't want to restrict fans from posting their favorite Nintendo games in their blogs.

[gear02]

Well....Nintendo has gone as far as suing someone who said their favorite game or game system was Nintendo(games) on their 'blog' site. It was mentioned over at Penny-Arcade but I can't link to it because 1) I can't find the link and 2) the "blogger" in question has the comment on his/her favorite game hosted by a softcore website.

Since then Nintendo has taken back it's lawsuit and apologized and doesn't want to restrict fans from posting their favorite Nintendo games in their blogs.

it wasn't a lawsuit. It was a cease and desist order that they then completely retracted. It was just a moron at Nintendo going nuts.

This is much different. This is saying that Marvel has rights to everything that resembles their products. So a guy has claws, he must be wolverine. That's just absurd.

[Cantacuzene]

They should sue companies they sell drawing pads, since after all, I am allowed to creatively draw my own comic books that could be complete rip offs of Marvel ones. The drwing pad companies are providing a blank slate for which I can rip off Marvel, same as this game company provides a blank slate for gamers to copy marvel heroes.

[DarkFury]

JAPL...

Just Another Petty Lawsuit....

C'mon Marvel... quit yer bitchin' and get back to drawing comic books. Tis a sad day when someone can't even recreate their own version of things that they like.

[Merlin]

So how is Marvel supposed to protect its property? If other companies can effectively profit from their characters then what are they supposed to do?

[Cantacuzene]

So how is Marvel supposed to protect its property? If other companies can effectively profit from their characters then what are they supposed to do?

Creating a video game that allows people to create custom characters infringes Marvel's right no more than it infringes any other comic company's, or even any fictional character in the history of entertainment.

Why doesn't Tolkein's estate sue Wizards of the Coast for making Dungeons and Dragons games that allow people to create characters that resemble Lord of the Rings characters?

[Merlin]

I have not played the game so correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you will :P ) But if the characters created are pretty much copies of your property then shouldn't you have control?

Yes, if you design your own character and it is different from what is out there then fine. But here they are talking about a character that is the Hulk in everything but name. And really if that is the case then it is theft of their IP.

For some reason this keeps reminding me of the movie Coming to America and the guy who owned the McDowells. Yeah it is different but come on.....

[Cantacuzene]

The game lets you make nearly any character you can think of. If the players choose to make him look like the Hulk thats their choice. Should the game makers have said, "you can create any super hero you can dream of... unless he looks or has the same powers as a copyrighted hero from a comic book company"?

It just doesnt make sense to hold a company accountable for the characters the players create in a role playing game.

[DarkFury]

So how is Marvel supposed to protect its property? If other companies can effectively profit from their characters then what are they supposed to do?
Hmmm... I wonder if Karl Benz shoulda sued everyone else who tried to build a car back in the day.

Then everybody would be driving Mercedes Benz right now. :hihi:

[mcs328]

ok not a lawsuit. Sorry about that. Still the cartoon was funny :)

[Airencracken]

Ghey. I'm sure this is really damaging marvel, the most damage marvel has taken lately is making "The Hulk" a movie. Total crap. :puke:

[DarkFury]

The game lets you make nearly any character you can think of. If the players choose to make him look like the Hulk thats their choice. Should the game makers have said, "you can create any super hero you can dream of... unless he looks or has the same powers as a copyrighted hero from a comic book company"?

It just doesnt make sense to hold a company accountable for the characters the players create in a role playing game.

I agree...

So what are they gonna do now... make all character creations go through an "approving official" before you can release it to the server? :shrug:

I still think that this is a ludacrous lawsuit...

I wonder if the "Hulk Like" character named it "The Bulk" :hihi:

BTW... back in the day, I do remember that there was a role playing "Hero" game where you could create characters that had characteristics that could resemble copyrighted super heroes... I wonder if they ever got sued? :hmm:

[Chgoman]

I was thinking about suing them because someone could create a character that was just like me, but then I thought okay, who would do that... :eek3:

[DarkFury]

Ghey. I'm sure this is really damaging marvel, the most damage marvel has taken lately is making "The Hulk" a movie. Total crap. :puke:
Don't forget to toss DareDevil in there as well. :D


Spiderman and S2 can only make up for so much of these other "stinkers". :2far:

[Memo]

This is a silly lawsuit. City of Heroes allows you to create any charactre you really want. The customization in it is ridiculous. You can pick colors for everything and you can change your head, hair, mask (full, small, half), pants, boots, shirts, gloves, chest details, tons of different face details and so on. With so many options people of course find a way to create Marvel-like super heroes. But for them not to be able to City of Heroes would have to remove the option to make 1) A really big strong guy 2) Someone wiht green skin. Those 2 are NOT anything Marvel can copyright, so City of Heroes has the right to offer both options. If a paying customer choose to put the 2 options together and name his character "Teh HuLk", then I really don't think it's Cryptic Studio's fault.

[Thesifer]

On a Funny Side note.. City Of Heroes Sales will probably jump for the Holidays.. when people hear of the Lawsuit.. Of people that want to go in and create their own "Copy Heroes"

[Merlin]

I see your point on that. At some point a super power is public domain. Strength or the ability to fly etc. But at the same time some are quite distinct. Like having a character with 8 inch long metal claws. So where do you draw the line on what is theirs and what is public?

[Cantacuzene]

I see your point on that. At some point a super power is public domain. Strength or the ability to fly etc. But at the same time some are quite distinct. Like having a character with 8 inch long metal claws. So where do you draw the line on what is theirs and what is public?

If the game comes with pre-created "stock" characters (for those who just want to play and dont feel like totally customizing a character) and those stock characters are simple marvel ripoffs then that is copyright infringement.

If a game allows people to create anything their hearts desire, that isn't the game's fault. Can you sue Adobe if I use Premier to create a movie which is a rip off another movie?

[DarkFury]

On a Funny Side note.. City Of Heroes Sales will probably jump for the Holidays.. when people hear of the Lawsuit.. Of people that want to go in and create their own "Copy Heroes"
My copy on "Special Edition DVD" will be here some time next week. :D


I see your point on that. At some point a super power is public domain. Strength or the ability to fly etc. But at the same time some are quite distinct. Like having a character with 8 inch long metal claws. So where do you draw the line on what is theirs and what is public?
Are you secretly working for Marvel here? :hmm:

How about an 8 inch claw on one hand and a hook on the other? :hihi:

[Memo]

The claws are a bit tricky, I don't know of any non-marvel heros withou claws, but then again, I do'nt know a lot of comics. Is there another character in comics out there with claws that isn't Marvel owned?

[Merlin]

Are you secretly working for Marvel here? :hmm:


No, I just see their side of the story. It is tricky because they do need to protect their IP, but how do they do that without seeming like the bad guy here? And remember, marvel IS their characters. If they lose control over them then the company will have nothing.

Yes, we should be able to be creative. Or not creative and just copy whats out there. Either way, not the game's fault. Now if there were prepackaged characters that look exactly like something I've made....well then....

I don't know who is right here but some limits clearly do need to be defined.

[Grubbie]

I just hate when companies do stupid ****. Like everybody has said, you create the damn character off a type of super hero. So if you pick one that is going to be hulk like, you then have a guy who is super strong and has certain powers but he isn't going to be green unless you make him green.

Just stupid that companies will sue over everything, I do agree with the name infringes, if a guy is running around looking like the hulk and his name is The Hulk, that that isn't alright. I remember in beta and retail they were saying you can't use actually superhero names. Im not sure what the problem with that is though. Oh well, marvel will lose it, but if they do, they will have thousands and thousands of pissed off fans.

[mixer107]

While I don't think Marvel will win this case against NCsoft, I agree with Merlin and think that Marvel must protect their intellectual property or else they'll go out of business. This company dug itself out of bankruptcy over the last couple of years by realizing that it's most important asset is intellectual property.

BTW, this is just the latest lawsuit that Marvel has filed. Marvel is trying not to get pushed around by bigger entertainment companies like Sony and Disney which were trying to give them very little for the use of their IP.

Marvel Sues Disney (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041102/disney_marvel_lawsuit_1.html)

Marvel sues Sony (http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movies/02/26/film.spiderman.reut/index.html)

[DarkFury]

Man... the folks at Marvel sure are keepin' the lawyers happy. :hmm:

[Bires]

I hope Stan Lee never visits a high school art lab. With all the drawings of superheroes by eager teenagers...He would be pissed!

Man...
JAGOY

Just Another Get Over Yourself

[mixer107]

I don't think Stan Lee is involved with Marvel much anymore... Didn't he sue them a couple of years ago? More lawyers..... :dead:

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-books.html?2002-11/13/09.30.books

It's all about who owns the ideas.

[LPMiller]

This is retarded. Why didn't they sue Freedom Force for allowing people to create skins of Marvel heroes and import them to the game with exactly the same powers? I'm sure this is simply a matter of people who don't actually play the game or really know anything about it hearing or seeing something about it and suing before thinking.

They did actually, and the end result was that people had to stop hosting those skins. Not that you can't still find them.

To me, it's just cosplay, only online, so I don't believe they have a case. But copyright law sucks in general, so you never know.

[Blitz]

Watch we are going to have relatives of the Tuotonic Order and Norseman Vikings come sue Dark Age of Camelot.

"OMG WTF! His axe is the same exact one as my great (x100) grand dad hasd! He even looks like him! UGH!"

While NASA sues space based mmorpg games for using almost identical designs for the game.

:bandit:

[mcs328]

They have sued Cartoon Network for airing I think Dexters Lab featuring Kronk. He's exactly like the Hulk except purple.

[yippiekiyeh]

No, I just see their side of the story. It is tricky because they do need to protect their IP, but how do they do that without seeming like the bad guy here? And remember, marvel IS their characters. If they lose control over them then the company will have nothing.



This doesn't constitute legal advice, but yes they have to make every effort to protect their IP or else when a "real" case comes up and they need to defend their IP, and someone states hey you didn't do this with XYZ and they copied just the same, they will lose their IP.

[Bires]

Robert Louis Stevenson's relatives should sue Marvel for profitting on the Hulk.

[mixer107]

Robert Louis Stevenson's relatives should sue Marvel for profitting on the Hulk.

I think he's been dead too long... copyright law doesn't apply to his stuff anymore.

[xsiled2]

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