Ahnold renames Christmas tree

[WhiskeyPapa]

LINKY (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/10325591.htm?1c)

SACRAMENTO - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger took on the role of "Triminator" on Thursday, helping a disabled girl hang the final ornament on the state Christmas tree and ending a secular practice of calling it a "holiday tree."Y'know, I totally understand why people would choose a generic greeting like "Happy Holidays", or even call this time of year the "Holiday Season". After all, we have multiple cultures celebrating different holidays, and I'm all for the spirit of inclusiveness. It sounds much better than saying "Happy HanauRamaKwansMass!"

However, since when did a lighted evergreen tree become a generic symbol applicable to all holidays? Fer crying out loud, it was, is, and always will be a CHRISTMAS tree.

Nobody has a problem with terms like "Hanukah Menorah", "Ramadan Fast" or a "Kwanzaa (whatever object is related to Kwanzaa)" Why is there such a problem with a freakin' Christmas tree?

So I applaud the Terminator (Triminator?), not as a victory for Christians or any particular religion, but as a victory for common sense.

[Jenny]

Yeah, I agree. :)

[Gothic Girl]

I agree as well. I thought it was completely stupid calling it a holiday tree. Almost as stupid as the "Triminator" nickname

[BrewMaster]

actually in Turkey, a secular Muslim country, they use Christmas decorations all over the place as New Year's decorations. I was there last year for Christmas and I saw all of these Christmas trees and lights and stuff and I was like, WTF? Friends there explained that they associate our Christmas decorations with New Years. funny how things get lost in translation.

[zenbooty]

However, since when did a lighted evergreen tree become a generic symbol applicable to all holidays?Since they put it in the State Building of one of the most religiously diverse states in the country and made it a big public photo op for the governor, that's when. :D

I don't see what the big deal is. The Tree was originally a Pagan Druid holiday ritual. The Christians co-opted it when they needed to convert them damn Pagans. Try and make Christianity more acceptable to them. So why should they feel so possessive? :shrug:

[Nanotech9]

cause its been theres for around 1000 years?...

i donno. i dont even celebrate xmas.

but, making it a holiday tree is dumb... that would be like putting up a holiday 7-candle stick thingy (whatever its called).... if they really wanted a holiday symbol, why not decorate a giant hundred dollar bill... afterall, thats what teh holiday season is all about - MONEY!

[Memo]

I'm not religious at all but trying to seperate CHRISTmas from religion is damn near impossible.

[welfareloser]

getting your panties in a bunch either way is kinda silly...

i can see why christians would get upset about the minutiae of the christian holiday getting whitewashed in public. it is a christmas tree, and a concerted effort to call it otherwise does feel like an unwarranted attack, since we'd all be pretty hard-pressed to come up with an instance where a christmas tree oppressed anyone...

i can also see why the secular among us might lash out at christian references... it is a symbolic resistance. nobody's oppressed by a tree being called a christmas tree, of course. but... i can see why some might be saying hey, if it's a symbol to be used in a government facility, let's just can the religion, okay? it's a signal to the "other side" that hey, your religion isn't (supposed to be) in control inside these walls...

anyway. i guess what i'm saying is, if homosexuals were allowed to marry and legislation wasn't undermining a woman's ability to fill her damned birth control prescriptions, i doubt even the most secular of secularists would care what the stupid tree was called.

[InfiniteNothing]

The govenor can call it what he likes. Calling it a holliday tree is just more inclusive. No one wants to be excluded. Also, Christmas is a secular holiday for many many people. If you want your holiday back you'll have to invent another generic family apreciation day with gifting.

[Markel]

If you want your holiday back you'll have to invent another generic family apreciation day with gifting.
PLEASE -- don't give Hallmark any ideas for another card-created-holiday. :hihi:

[ufcrusher]

What no Apex day? The day that all Apexers get worshipped and bathed by nubile members of the opposite sex? I'd buy a card for that! :hihi:

[Airencracken]

...
anyway. i guess what i'm saying is, if homosexuals were allowed to marry and legislation wasn't undermining a woman's ability to fill her damned birth control prescriptions, i doubt even the most secular of secularists would care what the stupid tree was called.

:stupid: exactly.


What no Apex day? The day that all Apexers get worshipped and bathed by nubile members of the opposite sex? I'd buy a card for that! :hihi:

Dude, I'm so signing on for Apex day. When is it going to be? I say Smarch!

"Lousy Smarch weather!" -Homer

[DarkFury]

Nobody has a problem with terms like... a "Kwanzaa (whatever object is related to Kwanzaa)"

It's a candle holder with seven candles...

The Kwanzaa name for it is a "Kinara".

Here's a short list of all the Kwanzaa items in case you were interested in it:
http://www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org/symbols.html

[WhiskeyPapa]

Don't worry, secularists, Christ was taken out of Christmas a long time ago. A tree is not (and never was) a particularly religious symbol, yet it is inexorably linked to the holiday of Christmas. It simply defies common sense to call it a "holiday tree".

[oblongmelon]

Every year, a group of us throw a Merry Kwanzika party..kind of a jumble of Merry Christmas, Kwanzika and hannakah (sp)..we have in attendance..the three wise kwanzika kings, Little Merry(mary) Latke(sp again-sorry) and Old St. Vic(play on st.nick). He's a guy from India that worked with us ..his name is Visvanjic..and comes in wearing a santa suit..he's all of about 100 lbs soaking wet and is 6'4. It's funny as hell...his pants come half way up his leg and his arms are about 10 inches too long for the red fuzzy jacket..needless to say..there is some alcohol involved, along with the standard Kwanzika feast-Tropical Drinks served over snow (shaved Ice),sambucca,latke's,Bacala,Ribs (bbq'd by the Kwanzika kings with their momma's recipe sauce) and naturally-Hot chocolate and christmas cookies..occaisonally we'll toss in some pizza or wings just to make up for those wishy washy party goers that don't abide by the kwanzika rule. At midnight-Ol' St. Vic takes his obligatory lap around the room passes out toot-too-roots..(which is the only musical instrument some of us italian kids got to play with as kids -it's an old toilet paper roll covered in tinfoil!)while he sings the toot too root song (here is a link if you'd like to listen http://www.itsfun.com/templates/electronica/index.jsp?band=110..yeh..good times, good times...

[Memo]

Don't worry, secularists, Christ was taken out of Christmas a long time ago. A tree is not (and never was) a particularly religious symbol, yet it is inexorably linked to the holiday of Christmas. It simply defies common sense to call it a "holiday tree".

Actually, it's more like people, over time, have tried to shove Christ into the december celebration we now know as Christmas.

[Airencracken]

Actually, it's more like people, over time, have tried to shove Christ into the december celebration we now know as Christmas.

:stupid: More christians need to take a little bit more history.

[welfareloser]

obby... i'm speechless. where can i get tickets?!?!?!?!? :heh:


Don't worry, secularists, Christ was taken out of Christmas a long time ago.

i guess they're just stomping out the last little traces, then :P



A tree is not (and never was) a particularly religious symbol, yet it is inexorably linked to the holiday of Christmas. It simply defies common sense to call it a "holiday tree".

tell that to my wiccan friends... it was their holiday first, and i'd bet they think it defies common sense to call it a christmas tree ;)

[Kenas]

However, since when did a lighted evergreen tree become a generic symbol applicable to all holidays? Fer crying out loud, it was, is, and always will be a CHRISTMAS tree.

People in other countries (Russia for instance) decorate pine trees for New Years rather than Christmas. Why should I call my tree "Christmas tree" if it is not?

[Booyamos]

"In a 1989 ruling, The Supreme court held that the Christmas tree is a secular holiday symbol and that its public display -- which had been challenged by the American Civil Liberties Union -- does not amount to government endorsement of Christianity"

Boston Globe Article (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/12/29/christmas_tree_freedom/)

I couldn't find the actual supreme court ruling, didn't look hard enough. But basically xmas is no longer just a religious holiday so the government can spend money to decorate trees and cities for xmas.

and it should always be a xmas tree, who cares, people get offended too easily.

[BrewMaster]

eh, the government just wants the sales taxes from the xmas gift sales. yeah, i'm a cynic...

[InfiniteNothing]

and it should always be a xmas tree, who cares, people get offended too easily.

That door swings two ways you know.

[BrewMaster]

That door swings two ways you know.so does Mike Piazza, what's your point?

[InfiniteNothing]

so does Mike Piazza, what's your point?
It seems like the very people who are saying "don't be so sensitive" are being awfully sensitive about the governator calling a Christmas Tree a Holliday Tree.

[BrewMaster]

It seems like the very people who are saying "don't be so sensitive" are being awfully sensitive about the governator calling a Christmas Tree a Holliday Tree.
well, this may be splitting hairs, but I think it is a different degree of sensitivity. People who hold that is should be Christmas tree and nothing else are spouting a bit here on the forums and in the media at large. The ACLU took the damn thing to the Supreme Court. So I agree the door swings both ways, but I think folks who get upset about religion being included in a holiday tend to swing it a little farther.

[InfiniteNothing]

well, this may be splitting hairs, but I think it is a different degree of sensitivity. People who hold that is should be Christmas tree and nothing else are spouting a bit here on the forums and in the media at large. The ACLU took the damn thing to the Supreme Court. So I agree the door swings both ways, but I think folks who get upset about religion being included in a holiday tend to swing it a little farther.I don't see how ones sensitivity is correlated with magnetude of ones actions. Are you arguing that the people on the ACLU side must be more sensitive because they took bigger actions? I don't think that's logical.


I'm arguing that no one should be upset either way he says it: that both sides are being too sensitive.


Also I think that the only reason the Christian side hasn't taken bigger actions is because they can't. They have no legal recourse.

[BrewMaster]

well I have to agree with you InfiniteNothing that Christians who say it must be called a Christmas do not have a legal leg to stand on. that's obvious.

I am saying that a few people saying "it's a Christmas tree, always has been, always will be" is not akin to a legal challenge. i think both parties are being overly sensative, so in that respect you and I are in complete agreement. but I do also contend that if it bothers someone enough to pursue legal action, you are off the deep end of sensitivity. but that is what the ACLU is for. and I respect and support the ACLU unlike many Christians. I think the ACLU for the most part is a noble group that should be commended for making sure the constitution and legislated laws are actually followed.

[Houdini]

Each year I find the idea of cutting down a tree, sticking it in a corner indoors, and stringing lights around it more ridiculous. Call me Grinch or Scrooge, but the entire concept seems and looks bizarre. People stand around "oooh-ing and aah-ing" over the "beautiful Christmas tree," but a tree strung with little lightbulbs and other crap doesn't really looks so beautiful to me. :shrug:

But if I ever have a family, I'm definitely going to have a tree. With lots of bulbs. And ornaments.

H.

[InfiniteNothing]

But if I ever have a family, I'm definitely going to have a tree. With lots of bulbs. And ornaments.

H.
You win today's multiple personality award

[BrewMaster]

You win today's multiple personality award

ROFLMAO.

Seriously Houdini, it's all a matter of perspective. As the cliche goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I haven't had a tree since I moved out of my parents house. I like them, but I'm not going through the effort to put one up. When I have kids I'll have a tree (or when my fiancee nags me to go get one). So far I've layed low and not mentioned a Christmas tree. She hasn't said anything either so we're in good shape...

[Houdini]

ROFLMAO.

Seriously Houdini, it's all a matter of perspective. As the cliche goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I haven't had a tree since I moved out of my parents house. I like them, but I'm not going through the effort to put one up. When I have kids I'll have a tree (or when my fiancee nags me to go get one). So far I've layed low and not mentioned a Christmas tree. She hasn't said anything either so we're in good shape...

Agree with above. I live alone and consequently don't do the tree thing. But if/when I ever get married, etc., I'll have one. I do think the concept is stupid though. :)

[welfareloser]

heh... i refuse to have a tree until my kids have more sense. maybe when they're teenagers. until i feel like i can leave them alone in the same room with a tipsy, glass-encrusted fire hazard, they can just enjoy the grandparents' trees.

[zenbooty]

I don't have any room for a tree :( .

[Burzhui]

LINKY (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/10325591.htm?1c)
Y'know, I totally understand why people would choose a generic greeting like "Happy Holidays", or even call this time of year the "Holiday Season". After all, we have multiple cultures celebrating different holidays, and I'm all for the spirit of inclusiveness. It sounds much better than saying "Happy HanauRamaKwansMass!"

However, since when did a lighted evergreen tree become a generic symbol applicable to all holidays? Fer crying out loud, it was, is, and always will be a CHRISTMAS tree.

Nobody has a problem with terms like "Hanukah Menorah", "Ramadan Fast" or a "Kwanzaa (whatever object is related to Kwanzaa)" Why is there such a problem with a freakin' Christmas tree?

So I applaud the Terminator (Triminator?), not as a victory for Christians or any particular religion, but as a victory for common sense.

I disgree we light the "christmas tree" in Russia, not for christmas but for new year. So it's not really a christmas tree is it now

[blueindian]

I don't have any room for a tree :( .

get a rosemary plant, that's what we did. complete with lights. it's about 18" tall. can't hang ornaments though, it won't support them.

bonus: you don't have to toss it in a lake/landfill/bonfire when Jan. comes.

[Kevster]

Last year, Mrs. Kevster insisted that we stay at home and have Christmas at our home instead of traveling hours and hours to either one of our parents' houses. This was a side benefit since Mrs. Kevster had lost her job in early November so that helped us save a bit of money.

Since we were having Christmas for the first time at our home, we had to have a tree. I have never been keen on having a 7' fire hazard in our home, but we finally had one. It took us forever to get the wiener dog to stop licking the water out of it (we just stacked presents around it so she couldn't get to it).
As for calling it a Christmas tree vs. a Holiday tree, I'm all for calling it a Christmas tree. I do agree that thanks to the extreme over-commercialism of Christmas by stores here in the U.S., I wholeheartedly agree with kb0wwp that Christ was taken out of Christmas a long time ago. I was happier this year to finally find a nice Advent wreath and candle set than to get a tree.


I prefer to take the side of my European relatives and have only a few presents, if at all. I like to celebrate birthdays and accomplishments more anyway.

I will say this though, thanks to losing over 40lbs, it has been great for finding new clothes at ultra-cheap prices this season.

[zenbooty]

get a rosemary plant, that's what we did. complete with lights. it's about 18" tall. can't hang ornaments though, it won't support them.

bonus: you don't have to toss it in a lake/landfill/bonfire when Jan. comes.Christmas Ganja Tree!!! :idea:

[InfiniteNothing]

Christmas Ganja Tree!!! :idea:

Dude... I've got to get one of those.

[tupacboy]

Christmas Ganja Tree!!! :idea:

where do i sign up? :bandit:

[BrewMaster]

get a rosemary plant, that's what we did. complete with lights. it's about 18" tall. can't hang ornaments though, it won't support them.

bonus: you don't have to toss it in a lake/landfill/bonfire when Jan. comes.
and when you make chicken or roasted potatoes, just snip off a few branches for added flavor!

[welfareloser]

i have the worst luck keeping rosemary plants alive. tehy're freakin TOUCHY. you ahve to water them at LEAST once a day, and once you see a dead limb... no turning back. it just keeps dying til its dead and nothing you do can stop it. stupid plant.

[BrewMaster]

i have the worst luck keeping rosemary plants alive. tehy're freakin TOUCHY. you ahve to water them at LEAST once a day, and once you see a dead limb... no turning back. it just keeps dying til its dead and nothing you do can stop it. stupid plant.
really? i've had a totally opposite experience. you can't kill rosemary here in CA. i planted one small tick of it in my parents yard in high school, now it's practically a tree. it's taller than I am! and it took a beating. pellet guns, lawnmowers, falling lawn furniture, and then some too. that rosemary plant will probably be there after a nuclear war it is so tough. but you may have been talking about potted rosemary while this was a planted one.