is it wrong to put kids to bed at 7:30 pm?

[welfareloser]

this would be two hours earlier than normal... is it okay if i promise that they've been exceptionally, unrepentantly, unbelievably, joyfully bad?

i swear those two turds feed off each other - he did it, it was funny, so now i'll do it, and that's even funnier, so... - and today's entertainment appears to be pain and suffering. right now eg and i are literally hiding in the basement from the turds... and one of em just chucked a 10-lb toy microwave down the stairs... and that was not a random act. he was standing there quietly with it, and waited until i walked by, and aimed it at me. and then fell down laughing. i mean literally rotflmao laughing... screaming, trying to cath his breath, kicking legs in the air rolling on his back LAUGHING. and that's really just the icing on the cake. they've done everything short of try to dig my heart out with a spoon.

i hear... mattresses... calling for their little monkey @sses...

i don't care if they stay up and beat on each other. i just want them to leave the big people alone. poor eg got tackled earlier for the unforgivable offense of sitting in a beanbag chair to play dreamcast...

this, after breaking a couple of toys... pulling hair... punching anyone who comes near... dumping out and dancing on a can of pringles (which they had stolen from eg) ... lord, what else? my mind is so blown... oh, yeah... there was the trip to the grocery store where they ripped into a bag of goldfish, not because they were hungry, but because they wanted to chew up a wad, pull it back out of their mouths, and THROW them at people... there was the headbanging competiton... the protracted 30-minute semi-verbal, maximum-volume argument about how, no, really, it *is* in fact a bad idea to climb up on the back of the rocking recliner and jump with the expectation of hitting the beanbag chair way over there on the floor... ahh, and then there was the crayon one of the turds stole from eg's school, hid in his pajamas, and then decorated the kitchen with... the repeated attempts to wriggle out of clothes and diapers so they can watch themselves pee on stuff...

boy, it sounds like i leave them damn near completely unattended, doesn't it? i assure you... blinking and, god forbid, the occasional potty break, are all they get... and all they need.







if i have not convinced anyone to sterilize themselves right now, i hope i have at least made a compelling case for trying to have only girls.

[BigJon]

7:30? Sounds like you should have put them to bed after lunch!! :heh:

[Kim]

Good Heaven's girl, I'm exhausted reading that. I'd either ship them to the gypsies, or put them to bed and pour yourself a stiff drink! Good luck!

[OC]

One suggestion: Hide the spoons. :gle:

[Nija]

My bedtime was 7 in the 6th grade. 7:30 in the 7th grade, and 8 in the 8th grade.

9th grade was 9
10th grade was 10
11th grade was 10:30

and it never got higher.

So i'd say but their collective asses' to bed. With restraints.

[Emqtee]

time for nanny 911 ;)

[ShawnLee]

http://www.nijaizkewl.com/images/personal/nijastupid.gif :stupid:

Go ahead, put them down for the night and feel no remorse. But... won't this just give them more energy tomorrow?

I say you go the Desperate Housewives route and tell them to dig out the backyard for the new swimming pool.

[bbrian]

My bedtime was 7 in the 6th grade. 7:30 in the 7th grade, and 8 in the 8th grade.

9th grade was 9
10th grade was 10
11th grade was 10:30

and it never got higher.

So i'd say but their collective asses' to bed. With restraints.
:stupid: Exact same plan my parents had me on. My daughter is almost 3 and we put her to bed by 7:30 every day, then proceed straight to the kitchen to get a glass of wine. :cheers:

[faither]

Our two older (9 & 6) typically go to bed by 8:00 (7:30 if they've been real PITA's).

The older will often read in bed for a while but they go down early.

[BrewMaster]

you need to get some tranquilizers in those kids. i'm surprised you haven't beaten them until their little asses turn blue...

[zenbooty]

My bedtime was 7 in the 6th grade. 7:30 in the 7th grade, and 8 in the 8th grade.

9th grade was 9
10th grade was 10
11th grade was 10:30

and it never got higher.

So i'd say but their collective asses' to bed. With restraints.Ouch.
Sorry, dude, I thought I had it rough. Mine was 8 until like 1st grade. Then it was 9:00 until 6th grade or so, then 10 until high school, then 11. During summers or vacation during high school, I could pretty much stay up until whenever as long as I was in my bedroom by 11:30.

[welfareloser]

heh. the issue isnt so much the time... i don't go to work, they don't have to get up for daycare. i can set their schedules any way i like. i have them waking up at 9 am so that they nap at 3pm, so as not to have to interrupt their naps to pick eg up from preschool. the point is, it's two hours early for them.


and as i put them in bed, they started powerdiving off their beds onto my improvised tardguards (beanbag and foam chairs at bed peripheries.) at least, i think that's what that noise pattern was. no wet-melon thumps and no crying = I DON'T GIVE A FLYING F*** AT A ROLLING DONUT. s'long as they be leavin me the heck alone for a few hours, and they're not hurting themselves... momma's gettin her dreamcast on.

[Nija]

momma's gettin her dreamcast on.

:heh: :heh: :naughty:

I just yelped a laugh when I read that. Your lucky I wasn't drinking something, because you would owe me a new keyboard. . .

[cheapchinese]

lolz.. same line..

[Kevster]

When they've been behaving like that, it's time for a 12-hour time-out.

As for the bedtime, I agree with Nija - restraints might be necessary.

[ufcrusher]

One word, exorcism. If that doesnt work then...

Time for you to tell them the tale of their older brother Super Evil Gremlin...the one that was between EG and them. The one that never listened so you chopped him up into little pieces to better fertilize your roses in the backyard. Your precious roses.

THen bring home a dead/dying rose or two and say.....you'll be better in no time.


Ok, so that might not work...but if it does, then for the rest of their lives all you have to do is keep a dead rose around and they will never misbehave.

Either that or get some piranahas.......show them the film on what happens when they stick their hands in the tanks and tell them if they dont listen they will get to take a bath in the piranaha tank. (Yep....probably not going to work either, but hey evil geniuses take time to come up with evil plans)

Lasers...you need sharks with laser beams attached.....oh, dang-nabit, never mind.


As for the microwave throwing, crayon marking, urinating, fish spit wad throwing terrible twosome. The reality of the situation is you need to stop that behavior immediately. I wouldnt recommend doing anything physical to them as in todays day and age people seem to disapprove of corporal punishment. (Such as throwing tennisballs/foam balls at them to show them that the microwave throwing is bad and can hurt people)

Part of the problem is going to be their age. I dont recall how old they are but I am thinking 2 to 3 yrs...so they probably dont have any sense of morality. Taking away things is not going to be associated with what they did unless its an immediate action. (Such as they threw the microwave so it gets "thrown away" --storage-- Whenever they ask about it, you tell them that since they were bad you gave it to the children who behaved well)

Putting them to bed early is not bad, but if they are jumping all around/acting like hooligans then its nothing but a confined playtime. I would put them down and make sure they actually stay down. No talking, no playing, nothing. Yes, it puts a damper on your life but hey, thats part of being a parent.

Then again, what do I know. I have no kids that I know of. My only child rearing experience comes from my dealings with my brother and sister (9 and 15 years younger than me respectively)...and dealing with my mentally retarded sister. In case you couldnt tell, I was joking with my first few suggestions, just trying to give you a laugh.

[Kim]

Someone needs to invent a super strong velcro bed and jammies set.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Ouch.
Sorry, dude, I thought I had it rough. Mine was 8 until like 1st grade. Then it was 9:00 until 6th grade or so, then 10 until high school, then 11. During summers or vacation during high school, I could pretty much stay up until whenever as long as I was in my bedroom by 11:30.In our home, kids up to 12 years old have to go to bed at 8:00. Kids from 13-18 go to their rooms at 9:00, but don't necessarily have to go to sleep. Kids (especially teenagers) need some "down-time" everyday, and Mom and Dad need some "alone-time"!

BTW, if our kids are especially naughty, we shave a half-hour off their bed time for each infraction. Quite often we have kids going to bed at 7:30 or 7:00.

[kimchicowboy]

what ever happened to pulling out a can of whoop a$$ on a kid for misbehavin? sure worked well on me. hahahaa.

btw, i never had a bedtime per se. i was normally in bed and sleeping by 10 anyhow before i went to college.

[welfareloser]

ufc... all good suggestions... if they were 2-3. but they're 20 months. and they don't talk. at all. their response to just about anything is "da?" except when i really piss em off... then i get an emphatic "NOOOO MIIIIIIIINE!!!" oh, lord. which reminds me of another recent day-from-hell... yeah, i'll get to that in a minute.

hitting simply isn't effective. i take toys away, and any hitting or whatnot i put them in the mommy-straightjacket, a technique i learned form a friend... just hold the offending kid on my lap with his arms at his sides til he no longer thinks it's funny. slowly... but slowly... it sinks in.

as for making sure they lay in bed... it's simply not possible without kim's velcro set-up :heh: seriously. i can open the door and yell, and they'll just look at me like brain-damaged monkeys. when i'm done, they'll laugh. and make a break for the door. and it wouldn't teach them anything, anyway... again, great suggestion for an older kid who *knows* he's done something bad... and most importantly, if they fell asleep early, they'd wake up early... and momma don't play that. anyway, that wasn't even intended as a punishment, since they don't know they're doing anything wrong; it was just to rescue me and eg from their dubious company.

anyway, they're basically babies who happen to have a lot of physical skills... inconvenient stage for the parent, but apparently lots o damn fun for them. just something to be weathered til they have more sense in they heads... and i was talking to the mother of twins i went to hs with... she was saying her boys didn't start talking til about 3 :eek: it's funny, eg was running his mouth at 8 months, using long, complex sentences at 18 months... these two... "da." although, i realized yesterday that it may be a simple matter of disdain for mere mortal language... evilninja was sitting quietly on the floor with a see n say, and thought nobody was looking... and he said the name of every animal on it. evilgenius was sitting with kasey the kinderbot (a lame sort of leappad rip-off intended to teach 3-6 year olds how to read, do math, speak spanish, etc) ... and he was taking a math quiz... and he got every question (like 10 of them, all 4-choice multiple choice) right, and the thing has 1000s of questions that it asks randmly, so it's not like he could have memorized them. :hmm: little bastids.

okay, so my other day from hell; i can't believe i forgot to post it! 3 weeks ago...

i have the flu (courtesy of the kids) and a broken nose (courtesy of a
pissed-off kid head-butting me several days ago) and upon finally dragging
my sick a$$ to the shower today, i come back to find that a kid has
thoughtfully ripped off his diaper and taken a fat dump on the carpet.
here's the kicker... when i go to put a new diaper on him, he punches me in
the nose while grabbing his package yelling "NO! MINE!"

for christmas, i'm buying them cages.

[welfareloser]

what ever happened to pulling out a can of whoop a$$ on a kid for misbehavin? sure worked well on me. hahahaa.

it's going the way of the dinosaurs because other things are more effective... eg is an extremely well-mannered child at 4-going-on-5, and we've never whupped his a$$. he always says please and thank you, offers to help, does what he's told, politely asks permission and accepts it without argument if the answer is no... which is a lot more than i can say for the kids i know who get hit. they just get sneaky. and these kids are really too young to get it. i know that sounds stupid and sentimental and baby-crazy, but it's true. i've watched other parents do it to babies and toddlers, and they honestly don't get that the hit was a consequence of their actions until they're nearly 3. taking away the object and/or removing them from the situation works much better. it's really the only form of behavior modification that works on kids that age. they are trainable... i've got them trained to not stray from the playplace at the mall (okay, one is trained, the other one still chooses to run away because he likes being chased) ... they're trained to not resist the carseat, because resistance is futile... we're working on the hitting/throwing thing. it's sinking in... we're just not quite there yet.

[OC]

Taser?

[welfareloser]

heh... i think i threw mine away many years ago...

actually, i've been down here for an hour now chillin on the computer, and they're up there quietly reading books. :shrug: ahh, how the pendulum doth swing...

[Booyamos]

...snipped...

for christmas, i'm buying them cages.


lol oh man some of your comments just make me laugh out loud. I can't really give you any advice since i don't have any minions of my own. Sounds like it is rough some days, and quiet the others. here's hoping you get a few more quiet days for xmas.

[dsuds]

WL, give them superglue for Christmas. That way they can glue themselves to something and you'll get some down time. j/k

Really, find out the punishment that works, and stick with it. My son hated getting spanked, my daughter laughed if you spanked her. She'd look at you like "Are you done, I want to get back to playing now."

At 20 months, the're probably a little young for this but... if you have the room, make a time out area. Basically, an area with no toys, where they can't play or do anything but sit there. It'll be hell getting them to stay there the first few times, but may be an effective disiplinary action. Just be consistent with the punishment. If you let them get the upper hand, you're screwed.

[Nija]

I don't know how possible this is given your situation, but does separating them work? Like maybe separate sides of the room, or different rooms, and have eg chill with one or something?

/no kids
//just trying to be helpful
///thinks the velcro idea would be fun for all ages :D

[BrewMaster]

i have the flu (courtesy of the kids) and a broken nose (courtesy of a
pissed-off kid head-butting me several days ago) and upon finally dragging
my sick a$$ to the shower today, i come back to find that a kid has
thoughtfully ripped off his diaper and taken a fat dump on the carpet.
here's the kicker... when i go to put a new diaper on him, he punches me in
the nose while grabbing his package yelling "NO! MINE!"

WL, the mental images from this part alone, let alone all of your posts in this thread, had me laughing my ass off. you should be a professional writer.

[RoniMan]

after reading wfl posts, i keep getting this image of the mom with "satan's spawns" from "desperate housewives"

[welfareloser]

WL, the mental images from this part alone, let alone all of your posts in this thread, had me laughing my ass off. you should be a professional writer.

tell that to tor books... they've got my first manuscript right now... :P


and yeah, nija, separating them does make it easier... but the only two child safe rooms in the house are the living room and the babies' room. sometimes, when one of them takes a nap and the other doesn't, life is suddenly so easy... i can take one baby up to play in eg's room, and keeping track of what he's trying to stuff in his cheeks or break is easy. it's amazing... sometimes they're 5x the work of one kid, but other times - like this morning, when they're STILL reading books and drinking milk and otherwise behaving in a civilized fashion at 11 am :eek: - they're easier than one kid, becuase they entertain each other...

and yeah, i think i definitely need to see this desperate housewives show... i'm dl'ing the torrents right now :P although from what i've read, that woman is addicted to her kids' adhd meds, right? the LAST thing i need is a frikkin stimulant :P i'd have a heart attack...

[OC]

the LAST thing i need is a frikkin stimulantEh, wash it down with a little moonshine and you'll be fine. ;)

[welfareloser]

At 20 months, the're probably a little young for this but... if you have the room, make a time out area. Basically, an area with no toys, where they can't play or do anything but sit there. It'll be hell getting them to stay there the first few times, but may be an effective disiplinary action. Just be consistent with the punishment. If you let them get the upper hand, you're screwed.

i'm trying to think how i would work that... absically, they can play with anything. their room is the closest we have to no-fun zone... all it has is drawers of clothes, two beds, and tard guards... and apparently, that's enough to convert to a full monkey-bars/trampoline/fitness center...

okay... somebody remind me why i put an inflatable ball pit on the monkeys' amazon wish list? i forget why i thought that was a good idea. i'm going to go delete that if it's not too late...

[BrewMaster]

okay... somebody remind me why i put an inflatable ball pit on the monkeys' amazon wish list? i forget why i thought that was a good idea. i'm going to go delete that if it's not too late...
good idea to delete it. otherwise you'll get those balls hurled at you like incoming asteroids.

[Nija]

For some reason, I just re-read through this thread, and all I could think about was this video (http://www.nijaizkewl.com/images/personal/fun/ikea2.mpeg)

[Jeffbx]

For the bedtime routine: one of those pet gates in front of the bedroom door works wonders. They can still open the door, but it at least keeps them confined to the room. If they're climbing monkeys, stack two gates, one on top of the other. Just be careful not to pinch their fingers in there when you put them on!!! :ugh: I still feel bad about that...


For the diaper situation - my brother in law has the same problem. Put the diapers on backwards (so the tape is in the back), and if that doesn't work, a strip of duct tape around the top of the diaper certainly will.

[cheapie]

it's going the way of the dinosaurs because other things are more effective...



honestly wl, i don't know what to say. my initial response is that we have spanked my kids and my wife doesn't have a broken nose. if austin or carter had ever tried to pull the **** you're describing they would have been very sorry. not because i would have beat the piss out of them, but because i would have made the consequences bad enough to alter their behavior.

kids are smart. they behave like they do because they are allowed to.

but i don't have your kids so i'm not gonna judge.

[Jenny]

We spanked Josh for awhile. Not when he was too young to know what he was being spanked for, mind you. And we stopped when other forms of discipline began working (ie, timeouts, taking away things, etc). Spanking in and of itself isn't bad... Over-spanking or (anyway, blah blah blah. just had to throw my 2¢ in there.)

But yeah, I agree with cheapie. Then again, I don't have twins and EVERY child is different. Whatever, I just know it's funny to read. ;)

[welfareloser]

cheapie... i didn't mean to imply that spanking was wrong... i'd sure as heck use it if it worked. it's just not the only option anymore, and lots have parents have found other things to be more effective... i have no doubt that it works best for plenty of kids out there ;) anyone who gives parenting advice with the words "always" "never" or "every kid" is an idiot. the best pieces of advice will work for as many as 75% of kids, i've decided...

and evilninja wasn't even aiming for me when he broke my nose... i told him to stop doing something, he got pissed, i picked him up with his back to me, and he pulled the arched-back-tantrum trick, and between his ungodly strength and huge, hard skull, and the fact that he connected with my nose with the petrous part of the sphenoid bone (it's the hardest bone in the body, right there at the base of your skull) ... when he threw his head back, and hit me just right, my nose broke. wasn't his fault :shrug: and he actually hasn't arched his back like that since, because it didn't feel real good for him, either :P

and jeff... they can get out of bed at bedtime, but not out of their room. they're so durned short (5th %ile) that they can't quite reach the doorknob :heh: and i am SO putting their diapers on backwards now. that ought to at least temporarily confuse them :heh:

[Jenny]

haha ouch! sounds painful. :)

[Nija]

This thread shows, yet again, the beauty of duct tape :D

[OC]

Book title: Velcro and Duct Tape - A Guide for Stay At Home Parents.

[BrewMaster]

and i am SO putting their diapers on backwards now. that ought to at least temporarily confuse them :heh:

shows how much I know about kids. i didn't even know diapers had a front or back.

[oblongmelon]

7pm too early? HELL no-they are babies. My kids had regimented bed times-no exceptions..the only time they didn't have a required bedtime is when they started high school. Kids need sleep-regardless of how hyper they are.

[welfareloser]

okay, PLEASE don't focus on the actual time... they get plenty of sleep, just on a schedule that is slightly shifted from the norm, the norm being set by "everybody has to be somewhere at 8 AM!!!!" eg has to be at school from 12-3... and rather than wake them up from a nap to go pick him up, they nap when he gets home. thus, they wake at 9, nap from 3-6, go to bed at 9-10. plenny o sleep... ;)

anyway. point was, is it wrong to pack their little butts off to bed two hours early...

[gear02]

anyway. point was, is it wrong to pack their little butts off to bed two hours early...

Nope. Especially when they pull that crap.

[dsuds]

i'm trying to think how i would work that... absically, they can play with anything. their room is the closest we have to no-fun zone... all it has is drawers of clothes, two beds, and tard guards... and apparently, that's enough to convert to a full monkey-bars/trampoline/fitness center...

At their age, may I suggest Kiddie Jail? I'm talking about a blank area... a playpen with tall walls and no toys, no mats, nothing. That way there is no confusing punishment with moving to a new playhouse. And they NEED to be separated for this punishment, preferably where they can't even see each other.

My wife babysat for a mean little brat once that used to bite everyone. But once the parents left her alone with the monster, he bit her and she bit him back. Not hard enough to hurt him, but enough so he knew what it felt like. Kid never bit anyone after that. A little insight to how monsters... I mean children think.

[BrewMaster]

your wife sounds like a naughty one herself dsuds. :thumb:

[welfareloser]

heh... i have no place to put the jail. my house bursts at the seams as it is... the mommy straightjacket routine actually works just fine as a "punishment"... yesterday, i was just exhausted by the effort of parenting those dorks :P

but really, they're just not at a stage where "punishment" is appropriate... they don't know that anything they're doing is "wrong." they can see that i stop tehm from doing some things, and encourage them to do other things. that's as sophisticated as it gets for now, and they are testing things out to see what actions get what reactions. they've just recently developed an awareness of self, and have yet to develop an awareness of others as "beings equivalent to self." they don't get that they're hurting other people. they won't for several more months. so at this stage, deterring them, derailing them, and simply not allowing them to do unacceptable stuff is the only thing that works at all. they get the idea as best they can...

as for biting a kid back... i can't say i never met a kid that deserved it, but... :disa: hopefully this was an older kid than mine?

[BrewMaster]

mommy straight jacket? sounds like you need to get some child-sized canvas straight jackets.

[dsuds]

WL, I think you're underestimating the kids. They start testing bounds LONG before you would think. I'm sure you know parents whose infants sleep in the same bed with them. That's because the kids weren't "taught" that they can sleep alone. By picking the child up whenever they cry, the parents set a BAD precident. It's not a crime to let a grumpy kid cry themselves to sleep. But many parents think that because the kid cries, there must be something wrong. This isn't the case.

Another example: I'm sure you've seen the little ones fall down, the first thing they do is look around to see if mommy saw them, if you didn't, they often won't cry. But if mommy saw them, here comes the waterworks. Of course this is for the little bumps, not the "oh crap, he's bleeding!!" type falls.

I'm not saying that you can reason with a child like you can an adult, because you can't. The higher brain functions like logic and reasoning don't come around until much later (and for some people... never). But the average 20 month old has more intelligence than a dog. Don't be fooled.


Dave

ps. the kid my wife bit was about 24 months.

[welfareloser]

yeah, i know kids are smart, and i agree with every example up there... trust me, i'm not fooled... because they're trying to fool me. i watched my oldest develop an awareness of others and turn into a conscientious boy. i'm watching the same thing now in his brothers... it's developing, and it just ain't there yet.

much as kids are smart, they are also horrendously transparent. i've seen my kids try to get away with stuff that they KNOW i want them to stop, and it's FUNNY. i'm just saying, there are limits to their understanding, and punishment is only appropriate if they understand that what they wanted to do was wrong and did it anyway. otherwise, deterring, derailing, re-directing, positive reinforcement, etc, tend to work a lot better. in my experience, anyhoo.

just remind me not to hire your wife to babysit my kids ;) seriosuly, tho, if it worked on that kid, it was a good move. stuff like that doesn't work on mine yet. you'd be convinced of that as soon as you saw them get into yet another hair-pulling contest...

on a tangent, people who sleep with their baby kinda drive me nuts. either they act so superior about it (like you're evil for forcing your poor kid to sleep alone, and they're superior) or they COMPLAIN about it like it's somehow something that "jsut happened" to them and there's nothing they can do to fix it :rolleyes:

and on a further tangent, i've got little baby drama queen who can put on a pout over the silliest little booboos just to get more mommy lap time... and then i've got little baby evel knievel who, even if he is bruised and bloody, will pretend he's not crying, brush it off, and give a dirty look to anyone who attempts to pick him up and comfort him :heh: oh, and of course little johnny scientist, who even as he cries and bleeds is busy running his mouth asking what blood is, why it's in his body, how much he has, if he can make more when it falls out like that, etc... kids are nuts. all of them.

[dsuds]

Of course you're gonna be the best judge of your own kids. I was just sharing my observations on raising mine. They're 16 & 12 now, so I'm not quite done yet.

The long version of the kid biting was that she had been biten by this little monster a bunch of times and the parents wouldn't do or say anything about it... LIKE IT WAS NORMAL?!? WTF? This kid bit so hard that it would leave red marks on your arm, hand, wherever. After a couple weeks of this crap, he bit her and she immediately took his hand and bit him back. She just bit it firmly, not hard enough to even leave a temporary mark. It caught the kid by surprise more than hurt. It set a limit, and the kid didn't cross that limit again.

[welfareloser]

;) it's all good. i appreciate all observations, anecdotes, etc, from other parents... i learn a little bit every time.

yeah, my sister babysat a kid kinda like that for a few weeks... she really couldn't handle it and quit. the kid was like 3, and every time she tried to impose a very reasonable limit... like, no, you can't have just one bite of your third ice cream bar and throw it away again... he'd demand to call mommy, which she was supposed to let him do, and mommy would tell him it was okay... :eek: kinda makes you wonder what kind of adults they'll be, doesn't it?

and yeah, 2 is gettin a mite bit old for biting to be "normal" ...

[cheapie]

but really, they're just not at a stage where "punishment" is appropriate... they don't know that anything they're doing is "wrong." they can see that i stop tehm from doing some things, and encourage them to do other things.


ok girl...this is where i step in and say you're dead wrong. your kids are absolutely old enough to get punished/trained. punishment is merely making the consequences of their actions bad enough to change their behavior. if my 1yo understands that he is not to throw food on the floor, mess with the stereo, play with the plants, touch my glasses, get in the trash can, etc., then your kids are surely old enough.

now don't think i'm saying my 1yo never does the aforementioned things. BUT....when he does them and i call his name, he immediately recognizes that he's doing something wrong. and if he does it again, he'll look back and slowly do it to see if i'll follow through and smack his fingers or whatever. he absolute knows when he's doing something wrong and why he is punished.

if i call his name when he's doing something that is perfectly fine, his reaction is 100% different.

again, please don't think i'm saying you're a bad parent. in fact, carter has made me change my mind about how great of a parent i am. i thought austin was a great baby because i was a great parent...not so much. :rolleyes: austin was easy compared to carter. once he learned what the rules are, he obeyed them right away. carter tests the boundaries constantly. but because i know he is capable of learning what he can and cannot do, i have stuck to my guns and made sure there is sufficient disincentive to keep him from digging in the trash. and it's working. if he can sign drink, please, all done, down, etc., then he can figure out he's gonna get in trouble for chucking his veggies on the floor.

if your kids are half as intelligent as you or your husband they can grasp acceptable vs. nonacceptable behavior. they are also smart enough to know how much they can get away with without incurring a severe repercussion.

[bbrian]

:stupid: I agree Cheapie.. Kids learn at a very young age how to figure out the boundaries. Our family doctor told us the day after our daughter was born that discipline starts that day and I believe he was 100% correct. My daughter is now almost 3 and she definitely knows what she cannot do. I can just look at her a certain way and she knows that she shouldn't be doing something.

Every kid is different and needs to be brought up different ways, but I definitely think they can learn something is wrong or not allowed at a very young age.

[attgig]

man.... next time you need to grab a kid, get prm to grab 'em. keep that beautiful mug of yours protected!


as for keeping them in line...man.... I'm scared.... but honestly...I'm gonna go with Cheapie... you gotta start them young even if you don't think they get it the first time around. come second or third time - they do something bad, and they find out the consequenses...they'll put it together. and the later you start...the harder it's gonna get!

[welfareloser]

they do grasp acceptable vs nonacceptable... and i do basically everything you said up there, cheapie. i simply don't call it "punishment", because i am focussed on the "change the behavior" aspect, rather than the actual "make you hurt for your misdeeds!" aspect that is implied by the word punishment. taking away what they're screwing with or removing them from a bad situation and holding em down gets the point across nicely.

i know they're smart, and yes, they absolutely get "okay vs. not okay." they know not to do certain stuff. i was never trying to say that's not the case.

what i WAS saying was that they DON'T understand the fact that other people hurt just like they hurt. they understand that their actions AFFECT others... they just don't have a level of sophistication that allows true sympathy yet. that comes closer to 3 years old.

so, like with the biting thing, for example... if you bite a 2-year-old back... he understands that biting gets him bit, that sucks, and he won't do it again. but he does NOT understand that when he bit in the first place, it hurt that other person as much as him getting bit hurt HIM. that comes later.

i have a very short list of things that are unacceptable in my house... but if it's on the list, they know not to do it. trust me ;) honestly, it's just too much fun watching em play with their food and push buttons on the tv for me to want them to stop... :P and man, the first time my 11-month-old lunchbox dug a chicken bone out of the trash can and gave it hell with all 6 teeth, i just moved the trash can to the garage :heh:

[Mommypooh]

I recieved this in an email and fwd to my husband BigJon and he said to post this in here that you might get a kick out of it. so here is goes.


You Know You're a Mom When...


cid:248321416@17122004-0d071. Your feet stick to the kitchen floor, and you don't care.

2. When the kids are fighting, you threaten to lock them in a room together and not let them out until someone's bleeding.

3. You can't find your cordless phone, so you ask a friend to call you, and you run around the house madly, following the sound until you locate the phone downstairs in the laundry basket.

4. You spend an entire week wearing sweats.

5. Your idea of a good day is making it through without a child leaking bodily fluids on you.

6. Popsicles become a food staple.

7. Your favorite television show is a cartoon.

8. Peanut butter and jelly is eaten at least in one meal a day.

9. You're willing to kiss your child's boo-boo, regardless of where it is.

10. Your kids make jokes about bodily functions, and you think it's funny.

11. You're so desperate for adult conversation that you spill your guts to the telemarketer that calls...and HE hangs up on YOU!

12. Spit is your number one cleaning agent.

13. You buy cereal with marshmallows in it.

14. The closest you get to gourmet cooking is making Rice Krispie treats.

15. You're up each night until 10:00 P.M. vacuuming, dusting, wiping, washing, drying, loading, unloading, shopping, cooking, driving, flushing, ironing, sweeping, picking up, changing sheets, changing diapers, bathing, helping with homework, paying bills, budgeting, clipping coupons, folding clothes, putting to bed, dragging out of bed, brushing, chasing, buckling, feeding (them, not you), PLUS swinging, playing baseball, bike riding, pushing trucks, cuddling dolls, roller blading, basketball, football, catch, bubbles, sprinklers, slides, nature walks, coloring, crafts, jumping rope, PLUS raking, trimming, planting, edging, mowing, gardening, painting, and walking the dog. You get up at 5:30 AM and you have no time to eat, sleep, drink, or go to the bathroom, and yet...you still managed to gain 10 pounds.

[welfareloser]

:heh: yep... i idnetify with most of those... cept #11. i still verbally abuse telemarketers as creatively as possible. it's a public service, really :P

[Mommypooh]

Yeah I do too, It is also a pick me up in the day to see how creative I can get with my comments.

[BrewMaster]

8. Peanut butter and jelly is eaten at least in one meal a day.



hey, I eat PB&J for lunch almost everyday unless a supplier comes to take me to lunch. I love PB&J.

[welfareloser]

heh. yeah, and my favorite shows were cartoons and all my cereal had marshmallows LONG before i had kids... but let's not dwell on that :P