i never thought i'd be so glad my boy can cuss like a sailor -innocence lost spin-off

[welfareloser]

okay, as most of you know, my now-5-year-old knows every word in the book and can apply them accurately... and, as i learned int his particular instance, with amazing virtuosity and creativity. now, i pride myself on the fact that he has never used these words *at* anyone - definitely no name-calling ( i wouldn't allow him to even call someone "stupid," but that's actually never been an issue, since he's never called anyone names), and not in public, not at school, not *at* anyone. he cuts loose every now and then when he's frustrated with a toy or an activity, or when joking around with my goofy gen-x friends, and that's about it.

okay. so last week we're at the mcdonald's playplace (seems like half my weird stories start with that line these days). always a toss-up as to what kind of complany you'll have there. about half the time, there's at least one completely rotten little kid in there whose parents are making no effort to control him/her. this was one of those times... this little **** (pick your favorite four-letter word to fill in that blank :P ) is running around making a point of hitting other kids... not just hitting kids who piss him off, but watching where other kids are going, and getting in their path so he CAN hit, push, or kick them. his 200-lb mom is chatting on her cell phone, not doing a damn thing about it. so... this kid pushes eg, knocking him flat on his butt. eg yells, "hey! why did you do that?" he's genuinely hurt and confused. he asks me why the kid did that, and told him that it looks like that boy doesn't want to be nice today. (NOT what i was really thinking :P) so, a few minutes later, this kids runs up and pushes eg again. eg has never hit another kid, and isn't going to start today, i guess. he yells, "hey, boy! don't push! this is a play-place, you're supposed to play! it's more fun to play!" to which the monster-boy replies, "shut up stupid!" well, then eg's finally pissed. so, a few minutes later, eg is attempting to simply avoid the monster by playing up in the bowels of the hamster tunnels... where i can't get to him. the monster runs up, and pushes him. eg stands up and screams at the top of his lungs "what the f*** is the matter with you dammit? what the bloody screaming f***all do you think you're f***ing doing! knock this f***ing sh** off right now, dammit! i don't want you to f***ing push me any f***ing more because IT'S NOT NICE! OKAY?!?!?!?!"

about 20 seconds later, that kid came flying down the slide, his eyes as big as saucers, and he didn't go NEAR eg - or eg's brothers, once he figured out they were related - for the rest of the stay at mcdonalds.

i must say, i was quite proud of my boy... he didn't throw a single punch :P he even apologized to me for using the bad words, and i think i got the point across to him that even though he's not supposed to use those words, it was very much okay with me this time, and he did the best job he could with that boy who jsut didn't want to be nice :P

moral of the story: you don't have to fight if you can act convincingly crazy.

[blueindian]

nice!

[Burzhui]

the way i always taught my little brother, punch and kick in ways that don't leave bruises or make it look like your openent hurt himself accidentaly... fighting is A ok with me especially in these sorts of situations

[Yossarian]

teheheh, WL, you're gonna raise one helluva a good kid

[OC]

For some reason, the phrase "Easy on the swears" from Will Smith's Just the Two of Us came into my head as I read that. :P

wtg EG. :)

[oblongmelon]

there is no reason for a child to be using that kind of language-ever..REGARDLESS of whether he was getting the crap kicked out of him or not..why didn't you just turn the kid in to the McD's jungle gym police or something? Personally, I would have approached the parent of the other kid and let THEM have it..a brawl in mcD town..I can see it now..:laugh:

[DarkFury]

moral of the story: you don't have to fight if you can act convincingly crazy.
Heh..

Why know karate, when you can know Ka-razy. :hihi:

[BrewMaster]

moral of the story: you don't have to fight if you can act convincingly crazy.
that philosophy has worked for me most of my life.

[kei2]

why didn't you just turn the kid in to the McD's jungle gym police or somethingBurger punks can barely handle a cash register, you think they can handle rowdy kids?
I would have approached the parent of the other kid and let THEM have itNow you're talking.

[InfiniteNothing]

there is no reason for a child to be using that kind of language-ever..REGARDLESS of whether he was getting the crap kicked out of him or not..why didn't you just turn the kid in to the McD's jungle gym police or something? Personally, I would have approached the parent of the other kid and let THEM have it..a brawl in mcD town..I can see it now..:laugh:

Yes, that would be setting a good example. :rolleyes: There's nothing inherintly wrong with swearing and in this case it was the best solution. I think everyone went home the better for this. And you shouldn't be over eager to get involved because kids need to learn how to deal with their own problems (even if the solution is asking for help) because you won't always be there. Lastly, I hope we are above the days when things have to fall down violence. That solution is quite selfish in that you're only doing it for your own sake. It's the easy way out. Might does not make right. And you can't make people good parents.


punks can barely handle a cash register, you think they can handle rowdy kids?.

Not to mention you'd have to temporarily leave your kid alone with the monster with that solution

[YanksFanRy]

Amazing how they're just some letters put together, but strung up and used correctly they can mean oh so much.

What did nearby parents or other children think of all this?

[BigJon]

Daaammnn....remind me never to piss that boy off! Nice going EG! Stand up for your rights!

[oblongmelon]

Yes, that would be setting a good example. :rolleyes: There's nothing inherintly wrong with swearing and in this case it was the best solution. I think everyone went home the better for this. And you shouldn't be over eager to get involved because kids need to learn how to deal with their own problems (even if the solution is asking for help) because you won't always be there. Lastly, I hope we are above the days when things have to fall down violence. That solution is quite selfish in that you're only doing it for your own sake. It's the easy way out. Might does not make right. And you can't make people good parents.



Not to mention you'd have to temporarily leave your kid alone with the monster with that solutionWhen I say Letting the parent "have it" I don't mean by screaming and yelling, fist fighting etc..but there is away to approach someone with a modecum of decorum and let them have it in a really big way. And hey, even ask the kid to leave your kid alone..after asking him, if he doesnt-then you go to the parent and say "Excuse me, does that boy right there belong to you? (answers yes)....well can you please have him stay away from my child. He has been bullying him for the past 20 minutes-and seeing as how we have paid OUR money to be here as well, I would like my son to be able to enjoy his visit here.(if they roll their eyes and do nothing then)...I'm going to ask you politely once again-to please instruct your son to stay away from my child or I will have to go to the manager and ask them to have you both removed from the McD jungle palace..."...if they don't-then follow through with it..take your kid with you so the bully doesnt jump snot him and when you get the manager say.."I've asked so and so to have her kid leave my kid alone TWICE..but they/she wont..we have paid good money to be here and my child has a right to play without being hassled...if you don't do something-then I will alert every single parent I know never to bring their children here..and believe me, I know ALOT of parents..and then I'm going to call your District manager and report you for having an unsafe playing area."....

Now McD employee's being who they are..the store managers are always "most important" in their own book until they hear the DM mentioned..you bet your butt they will do something...free food coupons,asking the people to move the kid away to another part of the gym..etc...anything to look good to the DM...

But to have your child cursing and swearing for all to see? comeon-hardly appropriate..that is sooooo white trash, and then the story will twist from Buddha bobby was kicking the crap out of my innocent little boy-to That foul mouthed little brat was swearing at my son and got him very upset..tables have a way of being turned when you least expect it. But to allow that kind of language from a kid-no way..I'm sure there are ALOT of parents here who would agree that if they ever heard that kind of talk coming out of the mouth of their kid-that kid would be sitting with a sore butt or on a really big time out. I can see a kid everyonce in a while letting a word slip out to "test" a parent-but to have that kind of rant in front of a parent who doesn't do anything about it is just, well, wrong. It's not cute, or funny and it reflects badly on the parent in every form imaginable.

[Cantacuzene]

REGARDLESS of whether he was getting the crap kicked out of him or not..

Sorry thats wrong. You have a right to defend yourself anyway you can.

[johnnymk]

Regardless of whether it is wrong or not, it did work in this situation :naughty:

[bachviet]

SHould have let eg lose and beat up that kid until his mom couldn't recognize him. ;)

[Sir_Froggy]

But to have your child cursing and swearing for all to see? comeon-hardly appropriate
:stupid:

Could have let the other kid really have it by embarrassing the other parent in front of everyone. Then while going/arriving at home the other kid would've been seriously owned by the mom.

[BrewMaster]

eh, you seem to be pretty quick to tell everyone how to parent their children Obby. It worked here and WL is fine with it. That's all that matters.

[blueindian]

eh, you seem to be pretty quick to tell everyone how to parent their children Obby. It worked here and WL is fine with it. That's all that matters.

:stupid:

[welfareloser]

But to have your child cursing and swearing for all to see? comeon-hardly appropriate..but to have that kind of rant in front of a parent who doesn't do anything about it is just, well, wrong. It's not cute, or funny and it reflects badly on the parent in every form imaginable.

ehh... you parent your way, i'll parent mine...

see, he doesn't let those words "slip" to "test" me. i think that's quite admirable. it's one of the things i love about my kid. he's not sneaky. wysiwyg. i think he handled the situation pretty durned well. he'd get in trouble if he ever used those words inappropriately. hasn't happened yet, which is a lot more than i can say for a lot of kids of parents who "don't allow" that kind of language.

my original parenting intent was to not ever say those words in front of eg. and i never did, until one day we almost died in a tornado. as things flew through the air smacking him in the head, i let fly with some words... he was 18 months old, he loves talking, loves new words, and he heard and remembered every single one. 6 months later, i had never repeated them in front of him, but he still remembered them. i couldn't take it back, so i simply made sure he used them responsibly :shrug:

and as for "for all to see" ... none of the other adults in the room (big bad momma and her two nasty friends) heard it. they were all ignoring their kids. pretty amazing, but true. not even a skip in the conversations. and really, even if they did hear it... should i really care if this trailer trash thinks *i'm* trailer trash? ummmmm... no.

and as for confronting them... i'd happily do it if i was sure it wouldn't end with my ass getting kicked. if i could reasonably expect these moms to act like decent human beings, that was absolutely the best course of action. but i was pretty sure these women would have just started punching me, and not only was i not going to win that fight, i had 3 little kids to think about.

and i've seen parents try to get the burger slaves to kick someone else out... it doesn't happen. not even when the PARENTS are bleeding. i don't know how dense the redneck population is in your area, but around here mcdonalds confrontations can end with bloody parents getting hauled off in handcuffs... because ANOTHER PARENT called the cops as the burger slaves looked on in slack-jawed wonder.

so really, the best option was just to leave. that's a 10-15 minute process for me... getting 3 pairs of shoes on, cleaning up trash, 3 coats, 6 mittens, two butts in strollers, etc... and i was in the middle of doing so when eg took care of the problem for me.

he stood up for himself without violence, and i'm proud of him. and after that, he STILL extended an invitation to the monster child to come and play nicely. not something most kids would do. i have no complaints about my kid's social skills, attitude, or vocabulary. :P

and it may not be cute or funny to you... and if you babysat eg every day, guess what, you'd never know that he knew those words, because he wouldn't say them in front of you. but it is funny and/or cute to anyone with a "they're just words" attitude... which includes me and a lot of my friends ;)

[g222leav]

well, then eg's finally pissed.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hahahhaahahaa...they've released the hulk!!!!

[cheapie]

if it was my kid, i'd fight the urge to laugh. and i'm impressed your kid didn't hit the other child. mine likely wouldn't have excercises that restraint.

we teach our son to come and ask my wife and i for help if he's got a problem that needs dealt with. if he ever swore at another person, regardless of the situation, he would be in an enormous amount of trouble.




eh, you seem to be pretty quick to tell everyone how to parent their children Obby. It worked here and WL is fine with it. That's all that matters.


obby is an experienced parent. whether or not you or i agree with her, she's certainly earned the right to make a comment. in the event wl was talking about beer or the right way to crap in the woods, i'm sure comments by either yourself or BI wouldn't have raised any eyebrows.

[welfareloser]

if it was my kid, i'd fight the urge to laugh. and i'm impressed your kid didn't hit the other child. mine likely wouldn't have excercises that restraint.

i'm impressed, too... although he went through a stage around 2-1/2 where he had no qualms about yanking a toy from another kids hands (on, man, did i come down hard on him for that... that was a painful 4 months or so) he's just never hit another kid... nothing i did; that's just him :shrug: his brothers, on the other hand, have done a little hitting, but i seem to have beaten (figuratively!!!) that out of them. thankfully, it wasn't that hard. wouldn't be surprised if i have to do it a couple more times before all is said and done, tho.

and i don't think it's the fact that obby commented that BM was turned off by... it's that her "comments" were in the forms of absolutes.

and yeah, eg did come to me for help, like he's supposed to... i told him he could avoid that kid, and i told him we could leave. those were his options. and after the first two pushes, i had stationed myself in a spot where i could give the kid a dirty look and prevent any further violence ... again, i was pretty sure me telling the kid to knock it off would result in my ass getting beaten ... but i just don't quite fit into the hamster tunnels, which is where the verbal explosion went down ;)

[cheapie]

cept for the swearing, i would have been happy if the situation would have gone down the same for me.

in the mcdonalds we frequent, the parents are usually watching their kids like hawks and immediately apologize if their kid brushes up against others. portage is a very non-necky area.

[nickel]

what a total potty mouth on a mere 5 yr old. i'm with obby.

http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/photos2002/2003121112231641A.jpg

[welfareloser]

yeah, the two types of parents that are problems here are the trashy rednecks - generally, people who have done jailtime - and the powermoms... stupid women impressed with themselves and their kids' $80 shoes who ignore their kids, and their kids are invariably sneaky little mean brats. there are plenty of rednecks around here who are wonderful parents with well-behaved kids, despite the bad grammar and butt-ugly haircuts :D and plenty of college-educated and/or upperclass working or stay-at-home-moms that don't act like stupid sorority b****es and also have nice kids. i've narrowed most things down so i know when not to go where to avoid the powermoms, but the trash could be anywhere at any time, unfortunately :P


what a total potty mouth on a mere 5 yr old. i'm with obby.

i'm devastated, of course :P

between your extensive experience with raising children and your own tendency to sling 4-letter words, it cuts to the bone... :rolleyes:

[nickel]

i'm devastated, of course :P
wouldn't expect anything more... or is it less? :P

[Jenny]

I agree with both sides. Josh knows at least one curse word (got it from a kid from down the street), but we don't allow him to say it. He knows he shouldn't. But yeah, I know where wl is coming from cause it's like that here, too. I used to go out regularly (once a month or so normally) with a friend of mine and her kids. (she had 3 at the time) It's simply amazing how little these people will pay attention. She & I were astounded. People will sit and eat and talk and not pay any attention to their kids in the toys. Not only in the play area but they will sit outside the play area and eat and talk while their kids are in the play area by themselves. You see it all the damn time. Sure, it's against the rules. And the McD's employees KNOW they are doing it. But they NEVER do anything about it. So... It's a double edged sword. EG probably handled it the best way possible. Doesn't mean I think it's right for him to be able to use those words at that age. ;) But I'm not his parent. What I think really doesn't matter. heh

[johnnymk]

yeah, the two types of parents that are problems here are the trashy rednecks - generally, people who have done jailtime - and the powermoms... stupid women impressed with themselves and their kids' $80 shoes who ignore their kids, and their kids are invariably sneaky little mean brats. :rolleyes:

I am really beginning to believe that these are the only two classes of people who inhabit America nowadays :bow:

[Jcranmer]

I'm with WL on this one. Words are just words, he could have done much much worse then cuss at the little bully.

[cheapie]

words are not just words. they convey your intelligence, your ability to negotiate a solution peacefully, and your upbringing. as papa's sig says, rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength. if your reaction to opposition is only violence or expletives, then you still have work to do....not talking about eg because since he's a kid, he's obviously still developing his social skills.

while i admire eg's lack of physical retaliation, a child dropping the f bomb like that, while amusing and would likely make my chest swell if i were the dad, isn't the ideal solution. but i wasn't there, he's not my kid, my son wasn't being assualted, etc, so i'm not going to pontificate about how i would have handled it..

but i can guarantee you that if my son had dropped the f bomb, well, he wouldn't have been happy. i try to teach him that he's not allowed to lower his behavior to match that of his antagonist.

[nickel]

i'm devastated, of course :P

between your extensive experience with raising children and your own tendency to sling 4-letter words, it cuts to the bone... :rolleyes:
eh, i see you added more to your post.
yeh, there is a big difference as far as slinging the 4-letter words, although your kid could probably outdo me, i am an adult and he's only 5 y/o.
no comparison.

[welfareloser]

But I'm not his parent. What I think really doesn't matter. heh

it does matter ;) i can totally respect not saying those words around your kids and not wanting them to say them. i think it's awesome that kb0wwp's kids have never even heard them yet by the age of 10. i just chose a slightly different way to deal with the unchangeable fact that he knows those words. it's working just fine for us. i also don't have any limits on tv time or video game time... with both of those, after an initial fascination and 2-week glut, he's no longer interested in them much, and doesn't really do much with either. i offer him healthier alternatives, and there's no inflated fascination with the forbidden fruit. same with those words... he's not particularly impressed with them, so i don't worry about him sneaking around using them behind my back and stuff. again, it's just what happens to work well with my personality and his.

as for that situation, he basically had three choices at that point, when he was cornered... take it, fight back, or #3, his innovation...

i initially considered scolding him for using the words, but decided not to... just think, when was the last time you got cornered and physically assaulted, and how did you handle it?

he was in a no-win situation, and to scold him on top of it, after he handled it the best way he could, would have been truly unfair to him. after all, it's not his fault the kid was a numbnutz, and i certainly prefer the words to the hitting, and i just can't tell him that, next time, i expect him to quietly wait for the kid to stop punchin him :P


i am an adult and he's only 5 y/o.
no comparison.

uh-huh. yes. again, your great experience with 5 year olds and how to raise them humbles me.

so when was the last time you got physically assualted while cornered, and what was your solution? what would his best solution have been?

nothing more satisfying than deliberately missing the point in order to be able to cling to a negative judgement of someone else.

[welfareloser]

but i can guarantee you that if my son had dropped the f bomb, well, he wouldn't have been happy. i try to teach him that he's not allowed to lower his behavior to match that of his antagonist.

i agree. hence, the avoid, tell a parent, etc techniques. but he was completely trapped and at that kid's mercy, and that was the best solution he could come up with. i don't know that i could have done any better, and i've got 23 years on him. so, in that case, i just can't feel that punishment was at all appropriate.

[nickel]

it does matter ;) i can totally respect not saying those words around your kids and not wanting them to say them. i think it's awesome that kb0wwp's kids have never even heard them yet by the age of 10. i just chose a slightly different way to deal with the unchangeable fact that he knows those words. it's working just fine for us. i also don't have any limits on tv time or video game time... with both of those, after an initial fascination and 2-week glut, he's no longer interested in them much, and doesn't really do much with either. i offer him healthier alternatives, and there's no inflated fascination with the forbidden fruit. same with those words... he's not particularly impressed with them, so i don't worry about him sneaking around using them behind my back and stuff. again, it's just what happens to work well with my personality and his.

as for that situation, he basically had three choices at that point, when he was cornered... take it, fight back, or #3, his innovation...

i initially considered scolding him for using the words, but decided not to... just think, when was the last time you got cornered and physically assaulted, and how did you handle it?

he was in a no-win situation, and to scold him on top of it, after he handled it the best way he could, would have been truly unfair to him. after all, it's not his fault the kid was a numbnutz, and i certainly prefer the words to the hitting, and i just can't tell him that, next time, i expect him to quietly wait for the kid to stop punchin him :P



uh-huh. yes. again, your great experience with 5 year olds and how to raise them humbles me.

so when was the last time you got physically assualted while cornered, and what was your solution? what would his best solution have been?

nothing more satisfying than deliberately missing the point in order to be able to cling to a negative judgement of someone else.
you can't take criticism. you need to work on that.

[cheapie]

i'd like to clarify that my chest-swelling would occur because he defended himself without whacking the kid, NOT because of the expletives. that would def. sour the occasion for me. sorry.

[welfareloser]

i can take criticism that's worth anything :shrug:

you can't take any questioning of your opinions. you need to work on that.

[nickel]

i can take criticism that's worth anything :shrug:

you can't take any questioning of your opinions. you need to work on that.
your kid has a potty mouth. that is all i said. you dispute that?

[welfareloser]

i'd like to clarify that my chest-swelling would occur because he defended himself without whacking the kid, NOT because of the expletives. that would def. sour the occasion for me. sorry.

don't worry... i knew that ;)

and he did try 2 or 3 times to get the kid to back off with nice words... then firm words... then he was avoiding him... then he was cornered and knew for a fact that normal words didn't cut it, and nobody was going to rescue him fast enough. so, again, he immediately apologized for using the words, and i just couldn't feel good about scolding him any further given the situation.


your kid has a potty mouth. that is all i said. you dispute that?

yes. you said you're "with obby." you dispute that, or do i need to quote it for you? :rolleyes:

[nickel]

don't worry... i knew that ;)

and he did try 2 or 3 times to get the kid to back off with nice words... then firm words... then he was avoiding him... then he was cornered and knew for a fact that normal words didn't cut it, and nobody was going to rescue him fast enough. so, again, he immediately apologized for using the words, and i just couldn't feel good about scolding him any further given the situation.



yes. you said you're "with obby." you dispute that, or do i need to quote it for you? :rolleyes:
yes, i agree, and still for the third time, since you are having a hard time comprehending, this is reinforcing what i've said, "potty mouth".


But to have your child cursing and swearing for all to see? comeon-hardly appropriate..that is sooooo white trash, and then the story will twist from Buddha bobby was kicking the crap out of my innocent little boy-to That foul mouthed little brat was swearing at my son and got him very upset..tables have a way of being turned when you least expect it. But to allow that kind of language from a kid-no way..I'm sure there are ALOT of parents here who would agree that if they ever heard that kind of talk coming out of the mouth of their kid-that kid would be sitting with a sore butt or on a really big time out. I can see a kid everyonce in a while letting a word slip out to "test" a parent-but to have that kind of rant in front of a parent who doesn't do anything about it is just, well, wrong. It's not cute, or funny and it reflects badly on the parent in every form imaginable.

[Cantacuzene]

Watch out WL, if you keep fighting with her eventually you'll be labeled a misogynist.

[nickel]

Watch out WL, if you keep fighting with her eventually you'll be labeled a misogynist.
:kiss: Merry Christmas baby

[welfareloser]

:P

thank you, nickel. there was nothing i was having trouble comprehending, beyond your passive-aggressive denial that you said anything more than "he has a potty mouth." the quote you provided say a lot more than the statement of fact... it's chock full of opinions about that fact.

but as soon as you pull your little wide-eyed "what did *i* say?!??!" routine, any discussion with you rapidly dissipates into nonsense.

now, if you would like to actually discuss rather than snipe-and-duck, we can return to this:

he did try 2 or 3 times to get the kid to back off with nice words... then firm words... then he was avoiding him... then he was cornered and knew for a fact that normal words didn't cut it, and nobody was going to rescue him fast enough. so, again, he immediately apologized for using the words, and i just couldn't feel good about scolding him any further given the situation.

so when was the last time you got physically assualted while cornered, and what was your solution? what would his best solution have been?

have an actual thoughtful comment on that, or another witty one-liner, followed by the assertion that i misinterpreted it?

[nickel]

:P

thank you, nickel. there was nothing i was having trouble comprehending, beyond your passive-aggressive denial that you said anything more than "he has a potty mouth." the quote you provided say a lot more than the statement of fact... it's chock full of opinions about that fact.

but as soon as you pull your little wide-eyed "what did *i* say?!??!" routine, any discussion with you rapidly dissipates into nonsense.

now, if you would like to actually discuss rather than snipe-and-duck, we can return to this:

he did try 2 or 3 times to get the kid to back off with nice words... then firm words... then he was avoiding him... then he was cornered and knew for a fact that normal words didn't cut it, and nobody was going to rescue him fast enough. so, again, he immediately apologized for using the words, and i just couldn't feel good about scolding him any further given the situation.

so when was the last time you got physically assualted while cornered, and what was your solution? what would his best solution have been?

have an actual thoughtful comment on that, or another witty one-liner, followed by the assertion that i misinterpreted it?
why are you re-hashing this? yes - yes, i have heard the story. my opinion remains unchanged, and i don't care if you like it or not.

and to entertain you and answer your question: if i were 5 y/o and hanging with my mother in McD's and some kid kept beating on me, my mother would step in. she wouldn't watch the events evolve from afar. and honestly, no matter what the circumstances, those words wouldn't flow out of my 5 y/o mouth. i would have said something in my defense, but no where near the trail of expletives your son did.

you really do take criticism poorly. you attack the criticizer instead of realizing criticism is constructive.

[LPMiller]

my chest would swell with pride because the swearing was context appropriate and used correctly. I can't stand bad swearing.

But geez, here is a situation where a kid has a very good chance of getting a smack down, with lots of crying and I'm sure the other parent in some kind of uproar. All sorts of potential for a series conflageration of fistifcuffs - and little wl does the old verbal beat down and saves the day.

I dunno, I'd give the kid a cookie. Of course, when I was 5 I said hi to some kid in a bowling alley and he scratched by face from eyeball to chin, to which I responded, "what kind of f-ing nutjob are you?" so I dunno that I'm the best judge of these things.

[BrewMaster]

obby is an experienced parent. whether or not you or i agree with her, she's certainly earned the right to make a comment. in the event wl was talking about beer or the right way to crap in the woods, i'm sure comments by either yourself or BI wouldn't have raised any eyebrows.




and i don't think it's the fact that obby commented that BM was turned off by... it's that her "comments" were in the forms of absolutes.

WL hit it right on the head. she was saying things like, "that is so white trash" and it "reflects poorly on the parents" and so on. in all her experience she should know that there are many different ways to raise kids beyond her own.

As for beer, I comment on beer, but I don't put people down for drinking beer I consider terrible. There's a difference.

[welfareloser]

why are you re-hashing this? yes - yes, i have heard the story. my opinion remains unchanged, and i don't care if you like it or not..

re-hashing? because you've ignored every pertinent fact except for the pottiness.


and to entertain you and answer your question:

please note that there was more than one question, and what follows manages to actually answer exactly zero of them. bravo!


if i were 5 y/o and hanging with my mother in McD's and some kid kept beating on me, my mother would step in. she wouldn't watch the events evolve from afar.

i wouldn't want to be accused of re-hashing anything... :rolleyes: read again. i was not watching from afar.


and honestly, no matter what the circumstances, those words wouldn't flow out of my 5 y/o mouth. i would have said something in my defense, but no where near the trail of expletives your son did.

i understand that. but he knows the words because of a near-death experience and his good memory and affinity for words in general.



you really do take criticism poorly. you attack the criticizer .

i "attack" the passive-agressive one who likes to pretend she isn't criticizing...


instead of realizing criticism is constructive.

:heh: constructive? get a dictionary. nothing you said was remotely constructive. several people have disagreed with me, and i respect their opinions and suggestions, and have had perfectly civil exchanges with them. i really appreciate constructive criticism. jenny, cheapie, and obby are all smart people and good parents, and have offered constructive criticism. i show the same respect i am shown. get a clue.

[cheapie]

so basically you're saying that obby can comment on raising kids as long as she doesn't say her way is better or that someone else is making a mistake? :rolleyes:

come on man...wl has NEVER pulled punches with regards to others' political choices, people's articulation, etc. why is this subject suddenly so sacred that obby can't comment on it.

just look at BI's comments on the amounts of cards obby sends out for christmas. i didn't see you going all don quixote on his a$$.

[welfareloser]

the absolutes just rubbed *him* the wrong way :shrug: he doesn't tend to talk that way, and it rubs him the wrong way when someone else does, i guess.

anyway, for the record, i understand where she's coming from and it didn't bother me... :)

[InfiniteNothing]

When I say Letting the parent "have it" I don't mean by screaming and yelling, fist fighting etc..but there is away to approach someone with a modecum of decorum and let them have it in a really big way. And hey, even ask the kid to leave your kid alone..after asking him, if he doesnt-then you go to the parent and say "Excuse me, does that boy right there belong to you? (answers yes)....well can you please have him stay away from my child. He has been bullying him for the past 20 minutes-and seeing as how we have paid OUR money to be here as well, I would like my son to be able to enjoy his visit here.(if they roll their eyes and do nothing then)...I'm going to ask you politely once again-to please instruct your son to stay away from my child or I will have to go to the manager and ask them to have you both removed from the McD jungle palace..."...if they don't-then follow through with it..take your kid with you so the bully doesnt jump snot him and when you get the manager say.."I've asked so and so to have her kid leave my kid alone TWICE..but they/she wont..we have paid good money to be here and my child has a right to play without being hassled...if you don't do something-then I will alert every single parent I know never to bring their children here..and believe me, I know ALOT of parents..and then I'm going to call your District manager and report you for having an unsafe playing area."....

Now McD employee's being who they are..the store managers are always "most important" in their own book until they hear the DM mentioned..you bet your butt they will do something...free food coupons,asking the people to move the kid away to another part of the gym..etc...anything to look good to the DM...

But to have your child cursing and swearing for all to see? comeon-hardly appropriate..that is sooooo white trash, and then the story will twist from Buddha bobby was kicking the crap out of my innocent little boy-to That foul mouthed little brat was swearing at my son and got him very upset..tables have a way of being turned when you least expect it. But to allow that kind of language from a kid-no way..I'm sure there are ALOT of parents here who would agree that if they ever heard that kind of talk coming out of the mouth of their kid-that kid would be sitting with a sore butt or on a really big time out. I can see a kid everyonce in a while letting a word slip out to "test" a parent-but to have that kind of rant in front of a parent who doesn't do anything about it is just, well, wrong. It's not cute, or funny and it reflects badly on the parent in every form imaginable.

Again your solution is poor for three reasons. The first is it doesn't give your child the "bully" skills all kids need. Like I said before, you won't always be there. If they don't learn how to deal with them young, they never learn how to deal with them... specifically learn the ladder of increasingly severe actions to take. Second, you have to temporarily force you kid out. I can see how unfair that would feel to the child. There was an immediate threat to EG, he might have been injured in the time it takes to walk to the 200 lb lady and negotiate with her.

That's so white trash... not apropriate. Who cares what other people think? I can't see why EG would get introuble with someone else either if the whole situation was explained. If he did get in trouble, it's a good leason in "the man" isn't always perfect in his law writing ie. question authority. You still haven't said what's inherently wrong with swearing other than it makes you look bad and you might get it trouble. Though, that's moot because he didn't get in trouble. The real problem is you're trying to improve a situation that worked out great. It's hard to say if it could have gone any better. It's imaginable that going to the worker wouldn't have worked one way or another. It's easy to see how it could ruin the whole atmosphere.

[welfareloser]

well, given that there are always details that only the people who were there would have... yes, obby's suggestions were good ones in most cases. i just replied with more detail, to explain why i didn't choose them, given the circumstances.

[InfiniteNothing]

:stupid:

Could have let the other kid really have it by embarrassing the other parent in front of everyone. Then while going/arriving at home the other kid would've been seriously owned by the mom.

You're assuming that would have embarrassed the other parent. I think she was probably reasonably okay with the whole her kid being a bully.

[Sir_Froggy]

You're assuming that would have embarrassed the other parent. I think she was probably reasonably okay with the whole her kid being a bully.
meh, I was more assuming that if she'd be ok with her kid being the bully then WL would talk to the manager and possibly had the other woman removed. I dunno, it would seem to me that being thrown out of a McD's for your kid's behavior would be kinda embarrassing.. :shrug:

oh and I was wondering, what does EG stand for?

[welfareloser]

I dunno, it would seem to me that being thrown out of a McD's for your kid's behavior would be kinda embarrassing.. :shrug:

i think it would be... i was just pretty sure that that wasn't going to be the end result, unfortunately.

eg = evilgremlin. his brothers are evilninja and evilgenius. learn more about their personal empire here ;) http://www.geocities.com/alyssalarson/thelarsons.html

i guess i should ahve jsut packed up and gotten out of there sooner, but i ahte to take away my kids' good times unless i have to, and many times i've seen eg actually manage to get a bully to stop bullying and join the game jsut by being unfailingly nice (and pushy :P ) ... so i wanted to give the situation a chance... and then it just went to pot.

[InfiniteNothing]

oh and I was wondering, what does EG stand for?
http://www.gotapex.com/forums/member.php?u=6656

[zenbooty]

so i wanted to give the situation a chance... and then it just went to pot.
No it didn't! It was resolved nicely without getting stoopid adults involved, or any scratches or cuts or black eyes!

Don't let'em rewrite history on you, WL. EG sounds like he's turning out just fine to me.

[InfiniteNothing]

I'd like to take a second and note that it's odd how even though this isn't a political issue, we are still falling down on the same sides. This leads me to believe that there are 2 popular very different ways of thinking. Why don't we get eachother. It's like we are different species or something.

[Sir_Froggy]

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/member.php?u=6656
oh ok

haha so I clicked on the latest thread by him and I was like, "WTF that kid's really smart for a 5 year old" and then I scrolled down :P

[whitak24]

i'm not sure why there seems to be this continual assumption that using four-letter words is "white trash" or is a signal of "unintelligence."

i've actually found that the more powerful the people, the more "important," the more intelligent, the more likely it is to hear f-bombs and any other "sailor-like" language.

the difference between these people and "white trash" is that they generally know when and how to use the words they choose for maximum effect and correct context. (occasionally, they slip up, i.e. dick cheney's "f*ck off" on the senate floor earlier this year.)

now you can argue that using four-letter words is inappropriate (for anyone), that it is unoriginal, or whatever, but to imply that it is somehow going to hamper people in their social or professional lives is contrary to the facts. if anything, it sounds like EG is already prepared to take on anyone in a corporate boardroom.

[InfiniteNothing]

i'm not sure why there seems to be this continual assumption that using four-letter words is "white trash" or is a signal of "unintelligence."

i've actually found that the more powerful the people, the more "important," the more intelligent, the more likely it is to hear f-bombs and any other "sailor-like" language.

the difference between these people and "white trash" is that they generally know when and how to use the words they choose for maximum effect and correct context. (occasionally, they slip up, i.e. dick cheney's "f*ck off" on the senate floor earlier this year.)

now you can argue that using four-letter words is inappropriate (for anyone), that it is unoriginal, or whatever, but to imply that it is somehow going to hamper people in their social or professional lives is contrary to the facts. if anything, it sounds like EG is already prepared to take on anyone in a corporate boardroom.

He should send in his resume to Trump

[BrewMaster]

so basically you're saying that obby can comment on raising kids as long as she doesn't say her way is better or that someone else is making a mistake? :rolleyes:

come on man...wl has NEVER pulled punches with regards to others' political choices, people's articulation, etc. why is this subject suddenly so sacred that obby can't comment on it.

just look at BI's comments on the amounts of cards obby sends out for christmas. i didn't see you going all don quixote on his a$$.
wow. you're getting way too excited about this. did I do something else to offend you because this really should not be such a big deal. i just said that she is quick to tell people how to parent their kids. notice that i didn't offer a counter to her argument becuase I am not a parent and have nothing to offer in that respect.

[cheapie]

I'd like to take a second and note that it's odd how even though this isn't a political issue, we are still falling down on the same sides. This leads me to believe that there are 2 popular very different ways of thinking. Why don't we get eachother. It's like we are different species or something.

I think it's parents vs. non-parents. Myself, Obby, Jen, and a secret PMer :cool: have expressed that it is not acceptable for our kids to swear like that under any circumstances. df has said so elsewhere, and papa stated something along the same lines in the thread that prompted wl to start this thread. nobody with a child agreed that it was ok. i could be wrong. correct me if some of you have kids and i missed it.


wow. you're getting way too excited about this. did I do something else to offend you because this really should not be such a big deal. i just said that she is quick to tell people how to parent their kids. notice that i didn't offer a counter to her argument becuase I am not a parent and have nothing to offer in that respect.

i'm not offended, excited, or upset w/you. i'm just passing the afternoon by posting and arguing. no offense taken and i hope the opposite is true! :cheers:

[BrewMaster]

i'm not offended, excited, or upset w/you. i'm just passing the afternoon by posting and arguing. no offense taken and i hope the opposite is true! :cheers:
none taken here either. :thumb:

[zenbooty]

I'd like to take a second and note that it's odd how even though this isn't a political issue, we are still falling down on the same sides. This leads me to believe that there are 2 popular very different ways of thinking. Why don't we get eachother. It's like we are different species or something.The same people who are judgemental of others regarding child-rearing are also judgemental of others regarding religion, politics, etc. :shrug:

[welfareloser]

I think it's parents vs. non-parents. Myself, Obby, Jen, and a secret PMer ... nobody with a child agreed that it was ok.

i've gotten 4 emails/pm's from real live parents and counting... all who just don't want any negative judgements that might come from expressing that they would have done about what i did. in general, people tend to be very, very judgemental when it comes to the parenting practices of others... the critiques tend to be nastier, more full of absolutes, and condemning, than they are about any other gossip friendly subject, even other people's relationships. not saying that that's what anyone here did, just that that's how people in general are, and that's why people tend to either remain silent or just lie to others about what their kids are like and how they actually parent.

[cheapie]

The same people who are judgemental of others regarding child-rearing are also judgemental of others regarding religion, politics, etc. :shrug:


http://www.littleboyinc.com/uploader/uploads/musttroll.jpg


i've gotten 4 emails/pm's from real live parents and counting... all who just don't want any negative judgements that might come from expressing that they would have done about what i did.


liar! you gotta post the pms to prove you're not FOS!

:heh:

[InfiniteNothing]

I can't believe that you guys get so many PMs. I want a fan base!

[Yossarian]

college boy says: the kid sounds liek hes doing well. he isn't going around cursing a anything really. and like lpm said, atleast he did it wth taste and in the right context.

honestly, the only think i see wrong with swearing is an excess of its use. sometimes using profanity on a person can get a think headed moron to understand what you are saying. then again, it could also enrage the person and get you popped in the jaw. but, you'll have that

[Jcranmer]

i'm not sure why there seems to be this continual assumption that using four-letter words is "white trash" or is a signal of "unintelligence."

i've actually found that the more powerful the people, the more "important," the more intelligent, the more likely it is to hear f-bombs and any other "sailor-like" language.

the difference between these people and "white trash" is that they generally know when and how to use the words they choose for maximum effect and correct context. (occasionally, they slip up, i.e. dick cheney's "f*ck off" on the senate floor earlier this year.)

now you can argue that using four-letter words is inappropriate (for anyone), that it is unoriginal, or whatever, but to imply that it is somehow going to hamper people in their social or professional lives is contrary to the facts. if anything, it sounds like EG is already prepared to take on anyone in a corporate boardroom.
:stupid: I said it before, but words are words. People that get bent out of shape over "4 letter" words are only doing so, because long ago someone DECIDED that these words were "bad". Why and who made that decision?

A good example of this would be the word "bloody". No one thinks a thing about it in the US, however there are people in Europe that would consider that a "bad" word (perhaps even worse the then "f" word) and get offended by it being used in a MDs by a 5 year old.

[Sir_Froggy]

Why and who made that decision?

that would be our society. :)

[Yossarian]

the same society who said homo-sexuality was a mental defect

[Jcranmer]

I think it's parents vs. non-parents. Myself, Obby, Jen, and a secret PMer :cool: have expressed that it is not acceptable for our kids to swear like that under any circumstances. df has said so elsewhere, and papa stated something along the same lines in the thread that prompted wl to start this thread. nobody with a child agreed that it was ok. i could be wrong. correct me if some of you have kids and i missed it.

Ok, you're wrong! :) I have a kid, well he's actually my stepson and he's already 16, so it's not quite the same thing.

[dsuds]

I've been watching this unfold this afternoon and must admit is has been very entertaining from the outside. I can see both sides of this issue and to an extent, both are right.

Is it ok to use this language in everyday context? No
It dropping multiple f-bombs better than taking a swing at him? Yes
Would the McD manager have done something? Not unless the cops needed to get involved.
Would "wideload momma" have done anything to stop her kid from shoving eg? Not likely.

Given the circumstances, I would have approached the bully's mother and pointed out her kids behavior and ask her to discipline her child. No threats. This is done on the outside chance the "wideload momma" is truly oblivious to her kid and needs to be alerted. Also it shows that you are not letting your child be victimized by doing nothing. If this didn't work, then eg was WAY JUSTIFIED in letting the kid have it. My hat's off to him for finding an ....uh.... "unconventional" solution to the problem. If I were in the same shoes I probably would have beaned the bully with one of the plastic balls.

WL, just make sure that you do not encourage this behavior as eg could get the impression that cursing is an effective way of getting a strong point across (ie "It's my f***ing toy so give it to me."). There are more articulate ways to express yourself than cursing like a longshoreman.

[cheapie]

i've gotten 4 emails/pm's from real live parents and counting... all who just don't want any negative judgements that might come from expressing that they would have done about what i did. in general, people tend to be very, very judgemental when it comes to the parenting practices of others... the critiques tend to be nastier, more full of absolutes, and condemning, than they are about any other gossip friendly subject, even other people's relationships. not saying that that's what anyone here did, just that that's how people in general are, and that's why people tend to either remain silent or just lie to others about what their kids are like and how they actually parent.


my parents were fairly strict. our language and behavior was closely monitored. we were encouraged to continually add to our vocabulary, even as very young kids. because we were a family of seven, we often got fearful looks when we entered a restaurant, store, etc. however, we got compliments from those same people when we left because we were well-haved. my parents instilled in me that the reason they were training/disciplining my siblings and myself was for later. we were told that how we presented ourselves spoke volumes. and of course no drugs, sex, swearing, etc.

it's worked out well. all five of us kids are the kind of people parents are proud of. successful, honest, secure, and well-respected. my parents seldom took shortcuts when it came to disciplining us. i don't ever remember my mom just giving in at the grocery store when one of us tried pitching a fit over something. and i NEVER heard one of us tell my mom or dad "no".

i'm trying to emulate the way they raised me, with a few changes. a notable change is that i really try not to tell austin NO if what he's doing is merely a slight annoyance and isn't something that inherintly bad. my mom and dad did that to me and it frustrated me. no? why? because you said so? wtf? of course i never articulated it like that. lol.

when i'm walking through the grocery store and some kid is pitching a fit, i want to just say, ARE YOU AN IDIOT? he ONLY does that because it WORKS! don't give in to him, no matter how embarrassing it is. or when we're at the restaurant with a couple of friends of ours...they have kids that are constantly grabbing and knocking around their plates, chucking food on the floor, etc. then they comment on how lucky we are that ours don't do so. i want to say, WE'RE NOT LUCKY YOU INCOMPETENT FOOLS! we worked hard to get them this way. but of course we can't say that. we smile and say, we are lucky, God's blessed us with well-behaved kids.

it's hard molding my kids into the kind that elicit compliments from strangers that are generally wary of children. but it's something that i'm committed to doing. it's tough following through with the kids sometimes. often i just want to say, **** it, let's just turn the tv to noggin and get him to shut up. or just let him interrupt the conversation and see what he wants. it will only take a second. but it's counterproductive. if there's one thing that my psych and child-psych classes taught me is that we all modify our behavior to get the stuff we want.

i guess my point is that the sharp comments might not only be that your kid dropped the expletives, but i at least am surprised that he's in environment sufficiently expletive-rich to facilitate his assimilation and use of them.

but again, he's not my kid, i wasn't there, etc. i would have liked to have seen it tho'. ;)

[welfareloser]

liar! you gotta post the pms to prove you're not FOS!

:heh:

well, since the whole point was that they didn't want to expose themselves to the likes of yeeeeeeeeeeew, you're just going to have to assume i'm FOS :P

and i can agree that using the words liberally (or even a little, in many contexts) can make you look unintelligent... depends on who you're with. some people find it funny, others don't. but my kid has known these words for 3-1/2 years, and this was the first time he's used them in public, so that's not a concern. his people skills are exceptional, he's intelligent, and other than the increasingly rare periods of severe ocd meltdowns, he's well-behaved. i honestly get complimented all the time on how well he plays with others, how sweet and good and helpful he is (i can spend HOURS in the grocery store because he's helping old ladies and talking to everyone he meets), his teachers are so thrilled with how kind he is to all the kids that they have invited him to visit the 3-year-old class to help them draw some of the younger kids out of their shells... i have moms beating down my door for playdates because they want him to set an example for their kids... i'm not exaggerating! i wish i was, the little bastid makes me look bad :eek: so yeah, a kid knowing and/or using the words can lead to bad things, but his knowing them has yet to be a bad thing, and if this is the only time he has used them in public, i'm just not gonna complain or make him feel any worse about it than he already did. okay... i'll stop being freaked out and defensive now :P i just posted it because it was funny, dammit :pfft: ;)

[BrewMaster]

There are more articulate ways to express yourself than cursing like a longshoreman.
longshoreman everywhere that just took offense at that statement. :hehehmm:

[dsuds]

Brew
Whaaaa? Youz talkin ta me? Fagetaboutit.....

Cheapie
Good post about parenting. I share a lot of the same philosophies about discipline. Let the kid cry sometimes when they want something and you say "NO". They'll learn that crying won't get them what they want. Just be sure to nip it in the bud before they escalate crying into full blown tantrums in the toy aisle.

WL,
One thing I noticed in your last post was that you said "and this was the first time he's used them in public". That bothered me a bit as in my experience, kids will eventually act the same in public as they do in private. If they curse at home, they'll curse in public. If they hit at home, they'll hit in public. Maybe not when they're little, but as they grow bigger... yeah.

[welfareloser]

a notable change is that i really try not to tell austin NO if what he's doing is merely a slight annoyance and isn't something that inherintly bad. my mom and dad did that to me and it frustrated me. no? why? because you said so? wtf?

that's really cool... i have trouble with that one sometimes too. i think most parents do... and a lot don't try to be that fair. i just make sure that i think before i tell a kid to knock something off... because once i give an order, it WILL get obeyed, and i don't want to set things up such that we're fighting over somethign that was stupid in the first place.



when we're at the restaurant with a couple of friends of ours...they have kids that are constantly grabbing and knocking around their plates, chucking food on the floor, etc. then they comment on how lucky we are that ours don't do so. i want to say, WE'RE NOT LUCKY YOU INCOMPETENT FOOLS! we worked hard to get them this way. but of course we can't say that. we smile and say, we are lucky, God's blessed us with well-behaved kids.

:heh: yeah, gotta love parents who act like stuff "just happens" to them... i try not to be too judgmental, because sometimes there really are some major differences between kids that could make a difference, but sometimes it's just painfully obvious that they've dropped the ball...


i guess my point is that the sharp comments might not only be that your kid dropped the expletives, but i at least am surprised that he's in environment sufficiently expletive-rich to facilitate his assimilation and use of them.

but again, he's not my kid, i wasn't there, etc. i would have liked to have seen it tho'. ;)

yeah, i know... you'd have to meet the kid, and then you'd understand that he can put this stuff together all on his own... lyrical gangsta, i tell you :P i can guarantee you that he used several combinations that he'd never heard before. he's just a kid who could say things like "mommy, i want to go outside and play with the trucks now, please" at 18 months old... he doesn't suddenly become stupid when the words happen to be swear words ;)

yeah, we do use expletives in front of him, but it's really not an expletive-rich environment 99% of the time... and the other 1% of the time, he knows it's good clean fun in that context only :P

[welfareloser]

One thing I noticed in your last post was that you said "and this was the first time he's used them in public". That bothered me a bit as in my experience, kids will eventually act the same in public as they do in private. If they curse at home, they'll curse in public. If they hit at home, they'll hit in public. Maybe not when they're little, but as they grow bigger... yeah.

he doesn't really curse at home... it's not like he cusses like a sailor all day at home and has to switch it off when he steps out the door. a handful of times, he has used a simple expletive when he dropped and broke a plate, etc. hasn't done it in a while, actually... again, in keeping with my "forbidden fruit" philosophy, i don't forbid it; it's not fruit. :shrug: i was simply honest with him about why the words are bad... they're simply not inherently bad. s*** means poop. poop is not evil. it's bad because it is used to indicate extreme anger, which upsets people. he gets it. in fact, if he hears me use one o them words, he tells me it's a bad word and i shouldn't say it. ;) the other night, one of our friends said something, i forget what, and eg just shook his head and said "well, i hope you don't talk like that at doctor school! it's okay here, but they're not going to let you be a doctor if you talk like that at doctor school!" oh, lord, was it funny...

[BrewMaster]

... lyrical gangsta, i tell you :P
i only hope and pray that i can say that about my kids when i have them.

[welfareloser]

:heh: i'm sure you can manage a lyrical gangsta of your own. lots of talking, reading and singing should do it ;) it's especially funny when he decides he's going to sing along. not knowing the real lyrics is no problem, apparently. i really need to start writing some of it down... i've got some videos of a 10-minute non-stop sing-a-thon that was 100% improvised to the tune of little orphan annie's "tomorrow" ... it was a song about mighty beanz, and between the lyrics and his tone deafness, i was laughing so hard that the video is all shaky...

what's really bad is that one of his lil bros has started singing along too... like at eg's christmas program. the kid can barely talk, but decided to hoot along to some songs, and by the end had managed a very mangled, very LOUD version of "hallelujah." if i could render his version phonetically, i would, but it just isn't possible. honestly, they sound like deaf monkeys trying to talk :disa:

[BrewMaster]

sounds like eg and his bros will be hosting telethons in the not so distant future. either that or the Miss America pagent.

[dsuds]

wl,

I was just making an observation. I've seen lots of parents who are completely befuddled that their kids curse, and I've been at their house and the parents curse. :duh:

I didn't figure that there was so much cussin' at your house that it sounded like a bunch of sailors. I do really like this quote as it puts different words in perspective for kids


"i was simply honest with him about why the words are bad... they're simply not inherently bad. s*** means poop. poop is not evil. it's bad because it is used to indicate extreme anger, which upsets people."

[welfareloser]

yeah... it's cool. eg asks a LOT of very detailed questions, so he really keeps me on my toes with making sure i have very, very good explanations for things... if my argument has a hole in it, he finds it. so, i had to think about it why those words are offensive, and he was satisfied with my answer... and so was i ;)

[YanksFanRy]

Another college kid says: Dropping the f-bomb every other word in a sentence is simply stupid for regular speech. But it has its times when it can prove to effective and reasonable to use. This would be one of them. The situation took care of itself after that. No one was hurt, there were no tears or blood shed. Sounds like a decent resolution.

Side note: WL, your kids are adorable.

[Yossarian]

college kid consensus, 'profanity' is useful sometimes! therefore, its logical that a person will at one point in their lives realize this, and use them atleast once. (yes, even yours wwp :P)

[whitak24]

yeah, but let's be realistic. college kids don't know **** about raising kids :heh:

[welfareloser]

unfortunately, our kids are being raised by overgrown college kids :heh:

[BrewMaster]

you mean you can't eat ramen for every meal for the rest of your life?

[whitak24]

unfortunately, our kids are being raised by overgrown college kids :heh:

that's why they're so awesome. and by awesome, i mean totally sweet. :P

[welfareloser]

you mean you can't eat ramen for every meal for the rest of your life?

i could until i got pregnant :puke: then you can taste msg, i swear it. and msg tastes baaaaaaaaaaad.

so you should be able to eat them indefinitely :P

[DarkFury]

eg = evilgremlin. his brothers are evilninja and evilgenius. learn more about their personal empire here ;) http://www.geocities.com/alyssalarson/thelarsons.html

Thanks for the link. :D

Couple of questions though...

#1, did EG have his last name changed to Larson, or is it a coincidence that his father and new daddy have the same name?

#2 I see thatyou put their full birthdays out there... well with kids, I dunno if that is a good idea. Too many crazies out there... too much personal info that can be used against you in the wrong hands.

Just what came to mind... but cute pics. :D

[Yossarian]

yeah, but let's be realistic. college kids don't know **** about raising kids :heh:

lesse, if you've got diarhea(sp), blame the cafe, take a newspaper into the john, come back in half hour, you're curred.

if puking, same, but neglect the newspaper, just take the comics.

fever, blame the roomate, stay in bed. avoid cafe food, or first two may result, making condition worse. make routine trips to the water fountian/sink for refreshment

personal injury, dumbass. take three tylenol, call me in the morning

emotional problems, dumbass. take three tylenol, call someone else in the morning.

[BrewMaster]

Too many crazies out there... too much personal info that can be used against you in the wrong hands.


and if anyone knows crazies, it's DF. :D

[welfareloser]

Thanks for the link. :D

Couple of questions though...

#1, did EG have his last name changed to Larson, or is it a coincidence that his father and new daddy have the same name?

#2 I see thatyou put their full birthdays out there... well with kids, I dunno if that is a good idea. Too many crazies out there... too much personal info that can be used against you in the wrong hands.

Just what came to mind... but cute pics. :D

haven't officially changed his name. it's something he can choose to do later, if he wants. i actually don't even know what it takes to do it, but i'm assuming the biological's consent would be needed. i doubt he'd give consent, so i haven't asked... so, we call him a larson unofficially, so that he doesn't feel like he's not a part of the family. prm's always been there for him, and eg started calling him daddy all on his own almost immediately when we hooked up, so it just felt right :shrug: i'm sure it would offend the biological, but so would the fact that eg's at a lutheran school and any number of other things, and with the level of involvement he's chosen to have with the boy, offending him just isn't real high on my priority list. i know, as a father who doesn't live with his boy's mother, it wouldn't be cool if it was done to dfj ... i know prm's dad (non-custodial after the divorce) really raised his eyebrow at it, too. but he, and you, afaik, are good dads, and my ex is simply not comparable. at all.

funny thing, tho, everyone who sees our family picture says the babies look like me, but eg looks like prm :P it makes em both feel pretty good. (and no, he's not, because i didn't :P )

and yeah, i know there are crazies out there... but if someone want to get me, they can get that info in any number of other places, so :shrug: i try to balance being sensible with not living in fear, and it's a major convenience for friends and family to always be able to find proper spellings of names, birthdates, and amazon wishlists :P my webpage can't be found via google.

[kei2]

then again, it could also enrage the person and get you popped in the jaw. but, you'll have thatYeah I was about to say. CONSIDERING THE CIRCUMSTANCES, that was handled pretty well. The danger, I think, is that not all bullies will back off if you act crazy. If someone's bent on beating the snot out of you, nothing you say will deter him. I mean... it worked here but you don't want your kid to think it'll always work in the future.

[oblongmelon]

wow. you're getting way too excited about this. did I do something else to offend you because this really should not be such a big deal. i just said that she is quick to tell people how to parent their kids. notice that i didn't offer a counter to her argument becuase I am not a parent and have nothing to offer in that respect.
Well let's see...I've raised 4 kids to adulthood..it wasn't an easy job I can tell you that for sure. I'm still raising them, helping them deal with their own situations now (good and bad)...I could give to sticks about how other people raise their children..especially ones who condone the use of foul language by mere babies...but hey! whatever blows your skirt up..but when you post things on a message board-you are opening yourself up for comments good and bad alike (and I include myself in that) (am I not correct here?)..I voiced my opinion Brew-now get off my ass...let me quote you "I am not a parent and have nothing to offer in that respect"..in that statement you are correct..You have nothing to offer here. When you become a parent, perhaps your perspectives will change. Talk to me then ok.. but for now-This entire thread needs to be on Jerry Springer.

[welfareloser]

:hmm: interesting use of the words "condone" and "babies" ... almost as if you did not read 90% of the thread...

oh well. black-and-white thinking. not my forte. :shrug:

anyway... to everyone who got a good laugh out of it... it was for you :cheers:

[oblongmelon]

Yes, that would be setting a good example. :rolleyes: There's nothing inherintly wrong with swearing and in this case it was the best solution. ok then tell me what is RIGHT with a small boy using language like that??


I think everyone went home the better for this. And you shouldn't be over eager to get involved because kids need to learn how to deal with their own problems (even if the solution is asking for help) because you won't always be there. Hopefully, most parents ARE there to protect and defend a child till they are old enough to be able to LOGICALLY put the situation in perspective to deal with it themselves. What is the age-who knows for sure....what does "dealing with their own problems" have to do with a small child using foul language?...do you realize that parents have been investigated by state authorities for less than that? Yep, I've seen it happen, and the results, that I have seen are not pretty. When it comes right down to it, a parent is ultimately responsible for the actions of their child until the child turns 18 or is emancipated by the courts at an earlier age..let the wrong person hear your kid using that kind of language and before you know it-you may all end up in front of a judge explaining your actions.


Lastly, I hope we are above the days when things have to fall down violence. That solution is quite selfish in that you're only doing it for your own sake. It's the easy way out. Might does not make right. And you can't make people good parents.The solution is to remove YOUR child from the situation before it has a chance to escalate..for the protection of the child. That is not being selfish-that is being a parent.Do you have children? I mean-you talk here like you know first hand what it's like to raise a child..If not, then perhaps your way of thinking will not match your own style of parenting when you have the chance (or if you already have children). What do you think happens to kids who have grown up "defending" themselves since they were little-they themselves become bullies, and instigators, who will point the finger of accusation at someone else before they own up to their own shortcomings..kind of like stirring the pot and sitting back to watch it boil over..



Not to mention you'd have to temporarily leave your kid alone with the monster with that solutionWhy would anyone ever leave their child alone? Especially now that there are so many more crimes against children..I don't care if it IS at a play gym like McDonalds, or if you have to run to the bathroom while they are at the top of the loop de loop crawly thing ama bob..there is NO reason to ever leave a child alone-EVER. If you are brave enough to venture out with a whole boatload of kids-then be prepared to have 9 hands, ten pair of eyes, and a fast foot. I've been there-so have a million other parents who had multiple amounts of kids...it's not easy-but it has to be done.


:hmm: interesting use of the words "condone" and "babies" ... almost as if you did not read 90% of the thread...

oh well. black-and-white thinking. not my forte. :shrug:

anyway... to everyone who got a good laugh out of it... it was for you :cheers:
sorry I don't agree with you-but I'm total old school on the subject..just my way of thinking..
they are your kids-raise them how you like.

[welfareloser]

it's not the disagreement that bothers me... it's that you twist it into "condoning" ... why? to make your judgement more tidy?

[BrewMaster]

The solution is to remove YOUR child from the situation before it has a chance to escalate..

her judgement is not going to change WL. in her eyes you made a horrible mistake and did not do what she would have done, therefore you are wrong. black. white.

[welfareloser]

i was in the process of implementing her solution... and had it escalated to a dangerous level, i would have taken drastic measures to do so. it never escalated to the point where abandoning coats/shoes, pulling the fire alarm, or risking the wrath of big oblivious mama was necessary. she seems to be ignoring that. i'm assuming that obby will counter with "i read every word." to which i will reply "you're ignoring all the important ones, tho."

anyway. my kid is kind, caring, and wonderful. i have taken great pains to erase such faults as not sharing, not using manners, etc. it has worked. he also knows dirty words and how to use them. he exercises good judgement and almost never uses them. if you think that it's hugely important that he knows them, and that it was horrible for him to use them in this case, and can ignore every other fact given... i feel sorry for you.

[oblongmelon]

her judgement is not going to change WL. in her eyes you made a horrible mistake and did not do what she would have done, therefore you are wrong. black. white.
I would have done what was in the best interest for the child. Apparently-your lack of PARENTING skills doesnt allow you to understand the concept of right and wrong when it comes to making decisions for a minor. And you're right-my "judgement" is not going to change. Like I said..get back to me when you have kids of your own.

as far as "condoning"..hey-you're the one who said your'e proud of the fact their kid throws out the nasties like a drunken sailor...anyway, I'm sure you're children are adorable in person.... If your family is ok with what goes on then you go girl..that's all I have to say.

[InfiniteNothing]

ok then tell me what is RIGHT with a small boy using language like that??
Hopefully, most parents ARE there to protect and defend a child till they are old enough to be able to LOGICALLY put the situation in perspective to deal with it themselves. What is the age-who knows for sure....what does "dealing with their own problems" have to do with a small child using foul language?...do you realize that parents have been investigated by state authorities for less than that? Yep, I've seen it happen, and the results, that I have seen are not pretty. When it comes right down to it, a parent is ultimately responsible for the actions of their child until the child turns 18 or is emancipated by the courts at an earlier age..let the wrong person hear your kid using that kind of language and before you know it-you may all end up in front of a judge explaining your actions.
The solution is to remove YOUR child from the situation before it has a chance to escalate..for the protection of the child. That is not being selfish-that is being a parent.Do you have children? I mean-you talk here like you know first hand what it's like to raise a child..If not, then perhaps your way of thinking will not match your own style of parenting when you have the chance (or if you already have children). What do you think happens to kids who have grown up "defending" themselves since they were little-they themselves become bullies, and instigators, who will point the finger of accusation at someone else before they own up to their own shortcomings..kind of like stirring the pot and sitting back to watch it boil over..

Why would anyone ever leave their child alone? Especially now that there are so many more crimes against children..I don't care if it IS at a play gym like McDonalds, or if you have to run to the bathroom while they are at the top of the loop de loop crawly thing ama bob..there is NO reason to ever leave a child alone-EVER. If you are brave enough to venture out with a whole boatload of kids-then be prepared to have 9 hands, ten pair of eyes, and a fast foot. I've been there-so have a million other parents who had multiple amounts of kids...it's not easy-but it has to be done.


What is right: He solved the problem on his own without any violence That's the goal, teaching kids how to solve problems right? I'll say this again you can't always be there. Kids go to parties, they go to school, they play sports. The rest of your argument is unsupported conjecture/speculation or slippery slope.

Also, I just thought you should know that you were counter pointing my first set of comments not my second. I didn't fully understand your position at that point.

[InfiniteNothing]

as far as "condoning"..hey-you're the one who said your'e proud of the fact their kid throws out the nasties like a drunken sailor...anyway, I'm sure you're children are adorable in person.... If your family is ok with what goes on then you go girl..that's all I have to say.

That's not condoning swearing, that's condoning nonviolent solutions and proper use of swear words (as opposed to improper use)

[oblongmelon]

What is right: He solved the problem on his own without any violence That's the goal, teaching kids how to solve problems right? I'll say this again you can't always be there. Kids go to parties, they go to school, they play sports. The rest of your argument is unsupported conjecture/speculation or slippery slope.

Also, I just thought you should know that you were counter pointing my first set of comments not my second. I didn't fully understand your position at that point.
unsupported ..RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGHT..the kid is a potty mouth (as Nickel called it)..that is not solving problems-that's just poor form. My question though-DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN? have you ever been responsible for the upbringing of kids at all? NO? well then...comments from the peanut gallery will not be honored at this time. Please use your "get out of parent jail free" card with delivery of firstborn and not sooner. Thank you and good night.


That's not condoning swearing, that's condoning nonviolent solutions and proper use of swear words (as opposed to improper use)
there is no proper use of the F word when it comes to a CHILD using it. (and even half the time for adults to use it)..and there is NOTHING that anyone will ever say that will convince me that there is....
(you think that a kid who curses to another kid isn't going get a major smack down someday by some playground thug who tries to steal his milk money??? yeh, that's non violence for ya.

[InfiniteNothing]

unsupported ..RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGHT..the kid is a potty mouth (as Nickel called it)..that is not solving problems-that's just poor form. My question though-DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN? have you ever been responsible for the upbringing of kids at all? NO? well then...comments from the peanut gallery will not be honored at this time. Please use your "get out of parent jail free" card with delivery of firstborn and not sooner. Thank you and good night.


there is no proper use of the F word when it comes to a CHILD using it. (and even half the time for adults to use it)..and there is NOTHING that anyone will ever say that will convince me that there is....
(you think that a kid who curses to another kid isn't going get a major smack down someday by some playground thug who tries to steal his milk money??? yeh, that's non violence for ya.

I'm going to play my ad hominem card. My parenting status has no relavance to the logic of this discussion.
Why is there no proper use of the F word? I'm happy as long as kid A isn't the one throwing the punches.
Not solving problems? the problem was the kid was bullying him. Since the kid is stopped the problem is solved... how is the problem not solved?

[oblongmelon]

My parenting status has no relavance to the logic of this discussion.

Well done. So what your'e saying is..if a goat produces cheese, and a cow produces milk, then a dog can crap in it's water dish and the results are all the same..Just stop talking-seriously. If you don't have children-you have no reason to even attempt to decipher what it's like to RAISE THEM.

[InfiniteNothing]

Well done. So what your'e saying is..if a goat produces cheese, and a cow produces milk, then a dog can crap in it's water dish and the results are all the same..
strawman


Just stop talking-seriously.
desparation

[oblongmelon]

strawman

desparationYou're inexperienced. and Clueless. Get a life.

[blueindian]

You're inexperienced. and Clueless. Get a life.

i've said this before and i'll say it again: lack of children does not, in and of itself, make one's opinons on the subject of rearing them invalid. similarly, having children does not, in and of itself, make one's opionions on the subject of rearing them valid.

if you discount my opinions on raising children because I don't have any, and then suddenly deside to consider my opinion because i have a newborn, i'd have to say your logic is quite flawed.

[LPMiller]

man, this thread is ****ed up. ****, man.

[oblongmelon]

i've said this before and i'll say it again: lack of children does not, in and of itself, make one's opinons on the subject of rearing them invalid. similarly, having children does not, in and of itself, make one's opionions on the subject of rearing them valid.

if you discount my opinions on raising children because I don't have any, and then suddenly deside to consider my opinion because i have a newborn, i'd have to say your logic is quite flawed.
the moment your child is born-your priorities change. Trust me on this one. And your statement-"having children does not, in and of itself, make one's opinions on the subject of rearing them valid"..true..that ball bounces either direction..if you believe that teaching your child that the use of expletives is "ok" because they are angry/upset/in a turmoil/shock value...then go for it...but wait till you actually have kids, whom you allow to curse..hell give them beer on their cheerios too-I mean if you're going to give them free reign to use that kind of language-they might as well have the lifestyle that goes with it. My logic is not flawed-trust me. If it were..my kids would have been in jail or out riding around in souped up cars waving confederate flags.

[cheapie]

:stupid:

also, while i agree that it's cool it was a non-violent act, let's be honest, there were more alternatives than going nuclear w/the f-bomb and decking the kid. under no circumstances should a child bust out "****". black and white.

for those of you all concerned with obby's b&w take, look at yourself. you have b&w opinions regarding the war, bush, taxes, the BCS, etc. she just happens to piss you off here.

[welfareloser]

for those of you all concerned with obby's b&w take, look at yourself. you have b&w opinions regarding the war, bush, taxes, the BCS, etc. she just happens to piss you off here.

start another thread, and call up some of our "b&w" opinions. i say you're dead wrong.

[cheapie]

i say you're dead wrong.

uh....that's pretty b&w.

[welfareloser]

see, obby, it's not the fact that you think the f word is wrong, period, that's a problem. so does jenny... and df... and cheapie... none of their kids would have done this, ever. and they're all in some stage of shaking their heads, thinking, "dayumn."

but here's what they're not doing:

"your'e proud of the fact their kid throws out the nasties like a drunken sailor"

"teaching your child that the use of expletives is "ok" because they are angry/upset/in a turmoil/shock value"

"hell give them beer on their cheerios too-I mean if you're going to give them free reign to use that kind of language-they might as well have the lifestyle that goes with it."

i am not proud of the fact that he used the f-word. i am proud of the fact that he didn't resort to fighting, and i'm not completely freaked by his use of words, because it was funny, and i'm pretty sure it's not going to happen again.

i did not teach him it was okay... we talked about it later - the discussion STARTED with him apologizing - and he knows that it is most definitely NOT okay.

and as for the lifestyle... :rolleyes: yes, it's fair enough that people who pepper their speech with it are more likely to be coco puffs and malt liquor types than those who don't. to compare eg to that is silly.



see, if *i* was a black and white thinker, i'd be rolling my eyes and pissed off at those dumb, inferior parents who are so stupid as to get their panties in a knot over mere words. i'm not. because i think that's a good way to parent, too. i simply prefer my way a bit, for me, because it works best for my personality and my kid's personality.

black-and-white thinking is what is leading to this nonsensical conflict. here's another example: a week ago, i started a thread about putting the babies to bed 2 hours early... and no matter how many times i explained (and i think it was 4 different times) that my kids are allowed to wake up naturally every morning, and that they always get enough sleep, that their overall schedule is merely shifted a bit from the societal norm for naptime convenience, you couldn't get past the fact that their normal bedtime was 9:30 instead of 7:30. 7:30 bedtime = not enough sleep; all other facts irrelevant. it's just tough to have a meaningful conversation with someone who's in vapor lock.


so obby, please engage in some gray-shade thinking for me. GIVEN that he knows the words because i freaked in front of him once and he never forgot them like any normal child would, and GIVEN that he went and used those words 3 years later - in this particular situation - what would you have done with him when he came to you tearfully apologizing?

and more facts to chew on, in case you find them relevant... this kid used at least one expletive while we were there. his momma's mouth was full of em as she yakked loudly on her phone. eg hears kids use language like that all the time in public... and politely asks them not to, because it's not nice.

[dsuds]

Obby & cheapie,

I can see your point that cursing is not appropriate at any time for a child... However, from reading the post, what other choices were there? Let's look at the progression of events as I read them:

eg asked the kid to stop
eg told the kid to stop
eg avoided the kid
WL talking to McD management is probably not going to accomplish anything. Your earlier post about this may have had an effect, but I don't think it would have worked (around my area anyway).
WL should have approached "oblivious mom" and asked her to restrain her bully kid. Let's assume for arguments sake that "oblivious mom" was asked and ignored the request.


That really only leaves a few options:
eg hits the bully and a fight ensues (or not)
WL takes eg and leaves. This teaches eg to avoid problems by running from them. Unfair to eg and sets a bad precident. If this were a more major confrontation, then leaving would be appropriate.
WL disciplines bully kid. This is a no-no in just about everyone's book. Would most likely escalated situation to involving "oblivious mom" and her round cohorts.
eg verbally blasts the kid. While not standard aceptable behavior, was very effective and diffused the situation.


I don't condone cursing by kids either, but it was a solution to the problem. As I've said earlier, I think WL will have to watch and make sure this doesn't become a regular part of eg's vocabulary, and probably is not acceptable if this same situation happens again.

[nickel]

see, obby, it's not the fact that you think the f word is wrong, period, that's a problem. so does jenny... and df... and cheapie... none of their kids would have done this, ever. and they're all in some stage of shaking their heads, thinking, "dayumn."

but here's what they're not doing:

"your'e proud of the fact their kid throws out the nasties like a drunken sailor"

"teaching your child that the use of expletives is "ok" because they are angry/upset/in a turmoil/shock value"

"hell give them beer on their cheerios too-I mean if you're going to give them free reign to use that kind of language-they might as well have the lifestyle that goes with it."

i am not proud of the fact that he used the f-word. i am proud of the fact that he didn't resort to fighting, and i'm not completely freaked by his use of words, because it was funny, and i'm pretty sure it's not going to happen again.

i did not teach him it was okay... we talked about it later - the discussion STARTED with him apologizing - and he knows that it is most definitely NOT okay.

and as for the lifestyle... :rolleyes: yes, it's fair enough that people who pepper their speech with it are more likely to be coco puffs and malt liquor types than those who don't. to compare eg to that is silly.



see, if *i* was a black and white thinker, i'd be rolling my eyes and pissed off at those dumb, inferior parents who are so stupid as to get their panties in a knot over mere words. i'm not. because i think that's a good way to parent, too. i simply prefer my way a bit, for me, because it works best for my personality and my kid's personality.

black-and-white thinking is what is leading to this nonsensical conflict. here's another example: a week ago, i started a thread about putting the babies to bed 2 hours early... and no matter how many times i explained (and i think it was 4 different times) that my kids are allowed to wake up naturally every morning, and that they always get enough sleep, that their overall schedule is merely shifted a bit from the societal norm for naptime convenience, you couldn't get past the fact that their normal bedtime was 9:30 instead of 7:30. 7:30 bedtime = not enough sleep; all other facts irrelevant. it's just tough to have a meaningful conversation with someone who's in vapor lock.


so obby, please engage in some gray-shade thinking for me. GIVEN that he knows the words because i freaked in front of him once and he never forgot them like any normal child would, and GIVEN that he went and used those words 3 years later - in this particular situation - what would you have done with him when he came to you tearfully apologizing?

and more facts to chew on, in case you find them relevant... this kid used at least one expletive while we were there. his momma's mouth was full of em as she yakked loudly on her phone. eg hears kids use language like that all the time in public... and politely asks them not to, because it's not nice.
i am calling you out.
"because i freaked in front of him once and he never forgot them like any normal child would."
so you are saying you've only used those slurs ONCE in front of him?

"he went and used those words 3 years later"
so you are saying he memorized those words from the ONE time you freaked out in front of him and that was when he was only 2 years old at the time?

and why are you trying so hard to make obby agree with you when you really don't care what people who disagree with you think?

[cheapie]

Obby & cheapie,

I can see your point that cursing is not appropriate at any time for a child... However, from reading the post, what other choices were there? Let's look at the progression of events as I read them:

eg asked the kid to stop
eg told the kid to stop
eg avoided the kid
WL talking to McD management is probably not going to accomplish anything. Your earlier post about this may have had an effect, but I don't think it would have worked (around my area anyway).
WL should have approached "oblivious mom" and asked her to restrain her bully kid. Let's assume for arguments sake that "oblivious mom" was asked and ignored the request.


That really only leaves a few options:
eg hits the bully and a fight ensues (or not)
WL takes eg and leaves. This teaches eg to avoid problems by running from them. Unfair to eg and sets a bad precident. If this were a more major confrontation, then leaving would be appropriate.
WL disciplines bully kid. This is a no-no in just about everyone's book. Would most likely escalated situation to involving "oblivious mom" and her round cohorts.
eg verbally blasts the kid. While not standard aceptable behavior, was very effective and diffused the situation.


I don't condone cursing by kids either, but it was a solution to the problem. As I've said earlier, I think WL will have to watch and make sure this doesn't become a regular part of eg's vocabulary, and probably is not acceptable if this same situation happens again.


dude....that is so weak! you can't say, "what should she have done?" and then proceed eliminate the most obvious solutions because they likely wouldn't have worked.

[Yossarian]

yes he can, its called conditions of rebuttal. he addressed the other side of the argument before seeing it/hearing it.

[dsuds]

Cheapie,

Look, I'm trying to make this a reasonable conversation and not a shouting match of "you're wrong.... no you're wrong". Yes, I admit that I slanted the situation to make my point. But you didn't even look at that, you wanted to attack me for making it. WTF?

I know with over 90% certainty that if I were in the same situation and went to the manager of the local McD's that they wouldn't do anything. A 19 year old pimply-faced kid is not going to get involved. Period.

WL did not address "oblivious mom" for whatever reason, I dunno. If she had --and-- the bully's mom did something, then this whole thread is moot. That's why I made my statement to take the "what-if" step with me.

Not really a weak argument....

[cheapie]

yes he can, its called conditions of rebuttal. he addressed the other side of the argument before seeing it/hearing it.

oh gee. thanks. i stand corrected! looks like someone learned something in their first semester :rolleyes:

saying it probably wouldn't work isn't exactly what i'd call addressing the other side of the argument.

[welfareloser]

i am calling you out.
"because i freaked in front of him once and he never forgot them like any normal child would."
so you are saying you've only used those slurs ONCE in front of him?

yep. i don't cuss in front of kids. i've never ever slipped up, other than that one time. why is that so hard to believe? i think lots of people who occasionally swear do that successfully :shrug: at the time of the slip-up, i was in a townhouse w/out a basement, i had just gotten rid of an ex who beat us bloody, and a tornado was headed for my house within the next 30 minutes. i decided our best chance was to run to the nearest basement. outside, eg has no pants on, there's stuff flying everywhere, and it was horrific. so i'm thinking, great, i just saved my kid's life, i just got hope of a real future TWO FREAKIN DAYS AGO, and now we're going to die.... oh, yeah. i cut loose with some very creative cussing. the fact that eg was soaking it all up wasn't on my priority list since i thought we'd be dead in 20 minutes :P

(now, by the time he was 3 or 4, i forget when, and he obviously knew the words and knew it wasn't okay to use them, we lifted our self-imposed 100% ban, and will use them when screwing around with our friends... hence eg's occasionally scolding us.)



"he went and used those words 3 years later"
so you are saying he memorized those words from the ONE time you freaked out in front of him and that was when he was only 2 years old at the time?

yep. 22 months old, i think. i understand that this one is a lot harder to believe, but it's true. words are the kid's thing. his vocabulary is amazing. prm is currently amusing himself by teaching the kid words that *i* don't know (that turd memorized a 2000-word SAT-prep word list before taking the GRE or MCAT or something, and has a much bigger vocabulary than i do)... and guess what, he hears em once and uses em properly ever after. talk about begging to get beaten up on the playground... trust me, his use of the word "prodigious" will get it done to him a lot faster than "f***" :P or prestidigitation. i don't even know if i spelled it right, but eg uses it correctly. he plays games with himself to see how many words he can come up with that rhyme. his brothers think this is hilarious and hoot and applaud. then he plays a game where he sits and recites words that mean the same thing. his brothers get bored and wander off. so to get his audience back, he sits and plays a game where he comes up with words that have the same number of syllables (and yep, he knows that word, too) and claps along. three syllables was too easy, so he's working on 4 or 5 now. he's actually upstairs right now trying to figure out how to play it so that the words have all the emphasis on the same syllables, too. a bit of a rocky start, but i bet it'll be going smoothly by this evening.

point being: yeah. he never forgets a word.


and why are you trying so hard to make obby agree with you when you really don't care what people who disagree with you think?

i'm not trying to get her to agree with me. any fool can see that. jenny, df, and cheapie also don't agree, and i'm not making any efforts to make them - or obby - agree. it's simply not fun when my gray-area stance in the matter gets twisted up and shoved into a black pigeonhole.

and what makes you say i don't care about the opinions of those who disagree? i care, for many reasons. it's good to understand how others think, for one. in the political arena, healing can only come after the two sides understand each other. and of COURSE i take negative judgements of my parenting to heart. everyone does, even if they won't admit it. call me fat, i laugh. call me ugly, i come up with a more creative comeback. suggest my kid has OCD because i feed him too much sugar, i neurotically add up every grain of sugar the kid has consumed for the last week, worry, beat myself over the head, feel like an @$$hole, finally convince myself that's not the problem, still feel like an @$$hole, and wind up in an hour-long explanation and discussion session of OCD with my friend who suggested it because i don't want him to think i'm a crappy parent :shrug: 'sno fun. duh.

[cheapie]

Cheapie,

Look, I'm trying to make this a reasonable conversation and not a shouting match of "you're wrong.... no you're wrong". Yes, I admit that I slanted the situation to make my point. But you didn't even look at that, you wanted to attack me for making it. WTF?

I know with over 90% certainty that if I were in the same situation and went to the manager of the local McD's that they wouldn't do anything. A 19 year old pimply-faced kid is not going to get involved. Period.

WL did not address "oblivious mom" for whatever reason, I dunno. If she had --and-- the bully's mom did something, then this whole thread is moot. That's why I made my statement to take the "what-if" step with me.

Not really a weak argument....

naw...i didn't want to attack you at all. the two most obvious resolutions are to talk to the manager or to the bully's mom. you asked what other choices there were and then deleted the two that i, and presumably most other people would have chosen.

and i was a manager at a mcd's back in the day in indiana. if a parent came to me and said something, you'd better believe i'd follow up. huge liability if i didn't!

[welfareloser]

and yes, since the manager and mom were likely to be unhelpful, leaving was best... i'm not trying to shoot that down! i was waffling on whether to leave, as i explained before, because most of the time, eg can get a bully to lay down his arms and play, and everyone has fun... then decided to leave, was rounding up stuff... then eg was in the hamster tunnel... yeah. anyway. other things could have been done, but that's what happened, and i think i've now given the full list of "whys" :P

[zenbooty]

and i was a manager at a mcd's back in the day in indiana. if a parent came to me and said something, you'd better believe i'd follow up. huge liability if i didn't!Which is likely why you are no longer stuck managing a McD's, get it?

[cheapie]

Which is likely why you are no longer stuck managing a McD's, get it?


the implication was the mgr was likely a 19yo. that's what i was. pre-college kid working an honest job. no reason to assume he's a loser.

if on the other hand it was a 30-something, he's not likely a winner because he's still there.

get it?

http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/15/markets/sun_lookahead/bull_confused.03.gif

[dsuds]

It's cool. The bully's mom would have been my first choice as well.

I hadn't really thought about the liability issue. Well I had, but only if the situation escalated into a fight. I've always been fiercely independant and as such, would not want to take the situation to the manager of McD's. I guess I view it as "asking for help below your social level", or at least the impression of it. I have a theory that a lot of people would feel the same way and not ask. If this had been a sit-down restaurant, I would have gone to the manager immediately. Go figure.

[cheapie]

my favorite was "sir. some kid peed in the playland." o.m.g.

hey "insert lower-ranking person's name here", i just heard there might be a mess in the playland. can you check it out?

[welfareloser]

Which is likely why you are no longer stuck managing a McD's, get it?

yep.

there is another mcdonals across town where i woulnd't have hesitated to talk to the manager. the clean mcdonalds.

but i like taking my kids to the one closer to our house too, because even tho it's not as clean and the staff is terrible, it's in a black neighborhood and there are tons of stay-at-home moms with wonderful kids and my kids have the best time there... and eg doesn't feel like his name is weird when he's playing with kids named ladonis and treasure ;) the nice mcdonalds is in a rich white neighborhood, so it's usually empty, occasionally has a power mom or two, and just isn't as much fun. unfortunately, our mcd's is also close to a certain trailerpark with a road that got renamed "DALE III" ... hence, the mom and child that were there that time.

[BrewMaster]

I would have done what was in the best interest for the child. Apparently-your lack of PARENTING skills doesnt allow you to understand the concept of right and wrong when it comes to making decisions for a minor. And you're right-my "judgement" is not going to change. Like I said..get back to me when you have kids of your own.

this is hilarious. you just don't get it. my point is not about my parenting skills. my point is not even about your parenting skills. my point is that you are being unceasingly rude and judgemental towards WL. and now you are being unceasingly rude to InfiniteNothing and myself. That's setting a great example for your kids... :rolleyes:

[dsuds]

snip... unfortunately, our mcd's is also close to a certain trailerpark with a road that got renamed "DALE III" ... hence, the mom and child that were there that time.

You sure you don't live near me? NASCAR isn't a sport, it's a religion down here.

[BrewMaster]

eg stands up and screams at the top of his lungs "what the f*** is the matter with you dammit? what the bloody screaming f***all do you think you're f***ing doing! knock this f***ing sh** off right now, dammit! i don't want you to f***ing push me any f***ing more because IT'S NOT NICE! OKAY?!?!?!?!"

after reading what he said again, I've decided it would have been much funnier if he said it with either an Irish or a Scottish accent. but who knows, maybe eg already has an Irish or Scottish accent. :shrug:

[zenbooty]

after reading what he said again, I've decided it would have been much funnier if he said it with either an Irish or a Scottish accent. but who knows, maybe eg already has an Irish or Scottish accent. :shrug:Nah, Korean or Vietnamese would be he way to go :hihi:

[welfareloser]

thanks to harry potter, he does a pretty good english accent :P

[BrewMaster]

thanks to harry potter, he does a pretty good english accent :P
yeah, but IMO the English accent is so overdone and unadventurous these days. You need a scrappy Irish or Scottish accent to really get the words butchered. Come on, teach the boy something! Or let him get a load of Colin Farrel in Intermission. That's some fun with Irish accents!

[oblongmelon]

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80289&highlight=swear+words
[quote=welfareloser]
eg knows just about every word in the book - the only thing i shy away from are words that are demeaning to certain groups (so he does not know gay as an insult, nor the n-word, nor cu*t...) he does an absolutely perfect job of saying them only at home or certain friends' houses... in fact, when he hears one o them special words out of my or his dad's mouth, he reminds us that we can't say that at school.

they're just words. nothing wrong with letting out some feelings with a bit of verbal "oomph." :shrug: they're like trashy exclamation points, and anyone who can't see that they're lots of fun is... well, no fun :P

now, he is absolutely NOT allowed to use them in a threatening or name-calling context... that's a different matter entirely (not that it's ever come up, actually - now that i think about it, he doesn't ever call anyone names. not even stupid.) saying "oh fu**!" is fine. saying "fu** you!" is not (in my opinion.)[/quote=welfareloser]

wait-didn't you say that you don't curse around your kids? only did it once? refer back to your post-sounds to me like the cursing is common place in your home...nice.

[cheapie]

http://www.antville.org/img/saunabiber/OWNED.jpg

[nickel]

:lmfao:

where do you find those pics?

[cheapie]

google. just type in owned, click on the images tab and pick one.

[Yossarian]

oh gee. thanks. i stand corrected! looks like someone learned something in their first semester :rolleyes:

saying it probably wouldn't work isn't exactly what i'd call addressing the other side of the argument.

you're right i did. i've learned that you need to lighten the **** up. not just from this thread, but countless political threds. everything is always black and white with you. sorry buddy, we live in a color world, nothing is absolute.

[welfareloser]

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80289&highlight=swear+words
[quote=welfareloser]
eg knows just about every word in the book - the only thing i shy away from are words that are demeaning to certain groups (so he does not know gay as an insult, nor the n-word, nor cu*t...) he does an absolutely perfect job of saying them only at home or certain friends' houses... in fact, when he hears one o them special words out of my or his dad's mouth, he reminds us that we can't say that at school.

they're just words. nothing wrong with letting out some feelings with a bit of verbal "oomph." :shrug: they're like trashy exclamation points, and anyone who can't see that they're lots of fun is... well, no fun :P

now, he is absolutely NOT allowed to use them in a threatening or name-calling context... that's a different matter entirely (not that it's ever come up, actually - now that i think about it, he doesn't ever call anyone names. not even stupid.) saying "oh fu**!" is fine. saying "fu** you!" is not (in my opinion.)[/quote=welfareloser]

wait-didn't you say that you don't curse around your kids? only did it once? refer back to your post-sounds to me like the cursing is common place in your home...nice.

ummm... yeah. owned nuthin. you people are proving that you have no reading skills whatsoever.

i remember saying all of that. did you notice my post on page 3 or 4 or 5 of this nonsense? i didn't cuss around him... at all... until one time at 22 months. that was an isolated incident. at 3 or 4 or so, when he still knew all the words and was completely responsible about it, we loosened up a bit. he's allowed to say them in the "o sh**" context. after a brief period of fascination, he stopped doing so. he hears us do it occasionally, when goofing around with our friends. he chides us for it.

so if you think you've caught me at something, think again :rolleyes:

i'm sorry if you think cussing is commonplace at my house. you really havve a talent for inserting words into what you read if you think you saw anything about affinity for or frequency of... :pfft: it's not commonplace. it happens. rarely. anymore, when i have an "oh sh**" moment, my favorite thing to do is a pirate-like "arrrggghhh!" much more satisfying.

and i've always tended toward really, really goofy ejaculations (punmeisters... that one's for you.) right now, i like, "oh, barnacles." becuase they're more creative and i like em. :shrug:

all i'm saying in those oh-so damning quotes you dug up is that 4-letter words are fun too, and i don't have anything in particular against em :shrug:

there's nothing wrong with wanting to raise your kids differently. and i really don't even find it offensive if you think your way is the only right way, and my way is wrong. but if you have to twist my position to make your point... that just says that your point can't stand on it's own.

[DarkFury]

haven't officially changed his name. it's something he can choose to do later, if he wants. i actually don't even know what it takes to do it, but i'm assuming the biological's consent would be needed. i doubt he'd give consent, so i haven't asked... so, we call him a larson unofficially, so that he doesn't feel like he's not a part of the family. prm's always been there for him, and eg started calling him daddy all on his own almost immediately when we hooked up, so it just felt right :shrug: i'm sure it would offend the biological, but so would the fact that eg's at a lutheran school and any number of other things, and with the level of involvement he's chosen to have with the boy, offending him just isn't real high on my priority list. i know, as a father who doesn't live with his boy's mother, it wouldn't be cool if it was done to dfj ... i know prm's dad (non-custodial after the divorce) really raised his eyebrow at it, too. but he, and you, afaik, are good dads, and my ex is simply not comparable. at all.

funny thing, tho, everyone who sees our family picture says the babies look like me, but eg looks like prm :P it makes em both feel pretty good. (and no, he's not, because i didn't :P )

and yeah, i know there are crazies out there... but if someone want to get me, they can get that info in any number of other places, so :shrug: i try to balance being sensible with not living in fear, and it's a major convenience for friends and family to always be able to find proper spellings of names, birthdates, and amazon wishlists :P my webpage can't be found via google.

Heh....

Yeah.. I'd have a sh@t fit if DFJ's mom tried to change his last name. :D But like you said... we are in two different situations.

BTW.. DFJ came to Florida with me... and guess where Mommy is? Yup... back in Indy. WHO'S YO DADDY!!!! :D

[welfareloser]

awesome... have fun in the sun with the lil man!!!!

*sigh* you know, i just realized that i only have about three years left of being taller than my lil man... :disa: my own fault for being short... they grow up so fast...

[DarkFury]

i'm not trying to get her to agree with me. any fool can see that. jenny, df, and cheapie also don't agree, and i'm not making any efforts to make them - or obby - agree. it's simply not fun when my gray-area stance in the matter gets twisted up and shoved into a black pigeonhole.
Hey now... I never said I disagreed or agreed with your stance...

You must be referring to my cautioning putting your kids birthdays and Last names on the web. That wasn't telling you what to do with you kids... moreso it was just a caution in case you hadn't thought about that.

I don't tend to tell anyone how to raise their child... unless they ask me. I have a child and I know what level of respect I'd want from others who want to judge me as well. :D

[welfareloser]

don't worry... by "disagree," i simply meant that you don't allow your kid to say those words at all (from some previous thread... i think the one obby linked above.) i know that you're a wonderfully non-judgmental person. ;)

and i do appreciate the concern about the webpage... :)

[oblongmelon]

don't worry... by "disagree," i simply meant that you don't allow your kid to say those words at all (from some previous thread... i think the one obby linked above.) i know that you're a wonderfully non-judgmental person. ;)

and i do appreciate the concern about the webpage... :)you mean the link where you contradict yourself ? LOL..Merry Christmas.

on that note-I'm through with this thread..with the exception of wishing DF and DFjr. a Happy HOliday.

[Yossarian]

awesome... have fun in the sun with the lil man!!!!

*sigh* you know, i just realized that i only have about three years left of being taller than my lil man... :disa: my own fault for being short... they grow up so fast...
i've got 7 inches on my dad, and have been taller than him since i was 12...heheh, hes such a good leaning post

[welfareloser]

you mean the link where you contradict yourself ? LOL..Merry Christmas.

yeah, that one. learn to read. :rolleyes:

now is a very convenient time to get out, since my next question was where i contradicted myself, and your only choices for answers are more nonsense or admitting that i did not :disa:

[BrewMaster]

you mean the link where you contradict yourself ?

:disa: :thumbdown

[InfiniteNothing]

You're inexperienced. and Clueless. Get a life.

Tsk tsk... now be nice. I've always been civil unless attacked first; there's no need to be rude.


oh gee. thanks. i stand corrected! looks like someone learned something in their first semester :rolleyes:


Dude, you too. He was just pointing out a style of debate. He never attacked anyone. There's no need to mock his education or take an overly sarcastic tone.

[nickel]

Tsk tsk... now be nice. I've always been civil unless attacked first; there's no need to be rude.



Dude, you too. He was just pointing out a style of debate. He never attacked anyone. There's no need to mock his education or take an overly sarcastic tone.
heh. the tone hasn't just been sarcastic from him now has it?

[dsuds]

snip... and i've always tended toward really, really goofy ejaculations...

i've got 7 inches on my dad...

Man, talk about jumping the shark. :hihi:

I think I'll use WL's quote for my sig.

[welfareloser]

well... color me embarrassed... that looks mighty peculiar out of context :P

[cheapie]

Tsk tsk... now be nice. I've always been civil unless attacked first; there's no need to be rude.



Dude, you too. He was just pointing out a style of debate. He never attacked anyone. There's no need to mock his education or take an overly sarcastic tone.


maybe since he jumped into a thread a few weeks ago and called me a ******* i'm a little sensitive.

[Yossarian]

got|link?

[cheapie]

yeah (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showpost.php?p=765085&postcount=36)

[Yossarian]

fair enough. nice to see you hold a grudge ever after you rebuke my statement within that same thread

[cheapie]

what? so....if i let it go at the time then i'm allowed to hold a grudge?

if you weren't been sarcastic in your post in this thread, then i jumped down your throat too quickly. however, if the last thing i said to you was that i thought you were a dumbass, i'm guessing you would look twice at the comments i made to you.

[Jcranmer]

Damn, this thread is still going?? Man people need to lighten up around here.

And yes before anyone else says it, I know I am one to talk about lightening up based on arguments I have gotten into on other boards. :)

[LPMiller]

what? so....if i let it go at the time then i'm allowed to hold a grudge?

if you weren't been sarcastic in your post in this thread, then i jumped down your throat too quickly. however, if the last thing i said to you was that i thought you were a dumbass, i'm guessing you would look twice at the comments i made to you.

He didn't say you were a dumbass, he said you were acting like one, which is different. Dumbass.

[faither]

Just read this thread today and I have one thing to say...

[Tiny Tim] "God bless us, every one." [/Tiny Tim]





Oh, and if any child of mine let fly the f-bomb, I'd be grabbing for a bar of Lever 2000 (a given) and they might even get a hand across the face (situation dependent).

Personally, while my children have not yet gotten into scrapes (except with each other), I don't find anything wrong with physically confronting/dealing with a bully.

My mother still tells the story of when I was five and there was a bully at the playgound who'd push me each day. It would happen and I'd run crying to my mother who was on the bench (with my sister in the carriage) and saw what had happened. After a few days of this, my mother told me to push him back. I did. He never bothered me again and it wasn't the beginning of a life of violence for me. (She'd have reacted differently had a let loose with the salty language.) I think sometimes we make too much of sheltering children from "physicalness" in defending themselves. It's part of the learning process and growing up. My$0.02.

[nickel]

He didn't say you were a dumbass, he said you were acting like one, which is different. Dumbass.
HOW RUDE!
LP, you have really been on a high horse lately. Be careful you don't fall off and get hurt.
Even if you are just adding to the sarcasm of this thread, i think what you just posted about cheapie was inappropriate - even more so for someone who is an article writer for got/apex? and therefore a reflection of this site.

[johnnymk]

HOW RUDE!
LP, you have really been on a high horse lately. Be careful you don't fall off and get hurt.
Even if you are just adding to the sarcasm of this thread, i think what you just posted about cheapie was inappropriate - even more so for someone who is an article writer for got/apex? and therefore a reflection of this site.

:stupid:

[cheapie]

:stupid:

[Yossarian]

LPM is always sarcastic, deal with it. if thats how he represents the site, then so be it. we all know that everyone has their own opnions, thats his.

[cheapie]

LPM is always sarcastic, deal with it. if thats how he represents the site, then so be it. we all know that everyone has their own opnions, thats his.


so as long as everyone knows ahead of time i have a crappy disposition, i can be as rude as i want? sweet! :thumbup:

[Yossarian]

sure, you'll be just like persian...you're headed that way anyways.