Air intakes

[ufcrusher]

Ok, with gas prices about to reach the next solar system its time to make some changes to my truck, 2004 F-150 supercab 4.6 Triton v8.

First, in an effort to get a little bit better gas mileage I think I am going with a more free flowing intake system. I have been looking at a few different models....Cold Air intake by Volant, Airforce One Intake, and K&N Performance Intake. All three of those intakes are in the $250 - $300 range. Looking at it realistically, I should get about a 2 mpg increase for this change with minimal effort. Of course, they typically claim higher returns and claim an 18hp addition for this change, but I doubt that. Can anyone recommend another brand of intake, good places to buy them at or something in particular to look for.

From my understanding, I am supposed to make sure that its partioned off, if its a cold intake its better.

Secondly, my friend suggested getting rid of my tailgate as the loss of the weight will probably give me another mile or two per gallon. Thus, getting a "gator net" or something to comply with the law would be required. He remembered some formula for figuring out weight cut to MPG added.

I think those two changes are probably going to be it for now, although changing out the exhaust system and doing some other performance mods are possible in the distant future. (although frankly if I am going to get much better gas mileage I can push them up.....so if you know something, tell me.)

I have been looking at www.f150store.com which is Moss motors, I also have been looking at www.autoanything.com.

Other sites, comments, etc. will be appreciated.

[blueindian]

a buddy of mine put a cold-air intake on his 4Runner. . .he got more horses but less gas mileage. he also put in one of those cyclone things to spin the air or whatever.

in general, i think greater horsepower = worse gas mileage.

as for the tailgate removal, i'll be suprised if you get a whole mpg increase by removing it.

whatever you do, let me know how it works out for you, i'd love to get more mpg out of my truck.

[palayah8ta]

a buddy of mine put a cold-air intake on his 4Runner. . .he got more horses but less gas mileage. ...

i think his mpg went down because u hear the intake, and u tend to keep your foot down more. lol. it sounds great.
----------
i think just some good ole fashioned smart driving will save u money. Dont accelerate when u know theres a red light ahead. accelerate slowly, use less a/c...etc.

Or if this person commutes a lot, buy a early 90's civic or something, u double ur mpg, and they cost around $2-3000. Im sure you will save a lot of money a year by doing that.

[nhbilly]

this might help you......

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77966

don't forget the movie linky..

[ufcrusher]

That is the thing, you cant drive more aggressively and expect to see the difference. I plan to drive in an easy rambling kind of fashion to see the gains.

As for the tailgate, its always been the claim that removing/reclining your tailgate will get you better gas mileage. The thought process is that it traps air in the bed, thus reducing flow and killing your gas mileage. They now even have hydraulic tailgate droppers which incline your tailgate at speed. The difference in weight seems like its probably more realistic than the flow issue.

[Leebo]

i think his mpg went down because u hear the intake, and u tend to keep your foot down more. lol. it sounds great.


Basically what happens... Happened to me..

[thresher]

Yay! Something I know A LOT about. I did a physics paper on tailgates (gotta love small schools) and whether or not removing them or putting tailgate nets (remember those?) helps. Long and short is: NO. A resounding no. Ford, Chevy and believe it or not, Dodge (sorry DarkFury, had too :)) all have a cushion of air built in to the back of their trucks. The tailgate helps create that cushion so that the rest of the air simply flows past it creating a sort of "air tounneau" if you will. The only thing that will absolutely help your gas mileage (body mod wise, besides lowering the truck) is a hard tounneau. I hope this helps. I got an "A" on the paper. ;) Oh, I have a 2003 STX with an HKS stainless intake, but it's for the powa! I get really really lousy mileage. 12mpg. Changing your exhaust is by far your best bet. A free flowing cat-back system (and keeping your foot out of it) will add a mpg or 2 at best. It doesn't sound like much, but remember over the course of 50k miles, this adds up. Good luck.
HKS (http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/hks_metal_flow_intake/1510-sa006/)

http://www.prostreetonline.com/pso/images/products/1510-SA001_m.jpg

[mechmike0034]

Ford, Chevy and believe it or not, Dodge (sorry DarkFury, had too :)) all have a cushion of air built in to the back of their trucks. The tailgate helps create that cushion so that the rest of the air simply flows past it creating a sort of "air tounneau" if you will. Changing your exhaust is by far your best bet. A free flowing cat-back system (and keeping your foot out of it) will add a mpg or 2 at best. It doesn't sound like much, but remember over the course of 50k miles, this adds up. Good luck.

:stupid:

The computer controlled fuel delivery system on most vehicles is designed to keep the air/fuel ratio at a point that balances emissions, mileage, and performance. Changing the air intake won't change this programming. Mass airflow sensors measure the quantity of airflow by mass, and the computer adjusts fuel trim accordingly. If you flow more air at a given throttle opening or position you will flow more fuel there as well as the computer keeps the ratio in balance.

[thresher]

And this is different from what I said how? I don't like unwarranted "I'm with stupid" signs, but I can handle them when I am incorrect. :)

* I'm with stupid to be changed to: I'm REALLY with stupid. haha

[DankNstickY]

And this is different from what I said how? I don't like unwarranted "I'm with stupid" signs, but I can handle them when I am incorrect. :)

he's agreeing with you dude... thats what the : stupid : smiley means

[ufcrusher]

Yay! Something I know A LOT about. I did a physics paper on tailgates (gotta love small schools) and whether or not removing them or putting tailgate nets (remember those?) helps. Long and short is: NO. A resounding no. Ford, Chevy and believe it or not, Dodge (sorry DarkFury, had too :)) all have a cushion of air built in to the back of their trucks. The tailgate helps create that cushion so that the rest of the air simply flows past it creating a sort of "air tounneau" if you will. The only thing that will absolutely help your gas mileage (body mod wise, besides lowering the truck) is a hard tounneau. I hope this helps. I got an "A" on the paper. ;) Oh, I have a 2003 STX with an HKS stainless intake, but it's for the powa! I get really really lousy mileage. 12mpg. Changing your exhaust is by far your best bet. A free flowing cat-back system (and keeping your foot out of it) will add a mpg or 2 at best. It doesn't sound like much, but remember over the course of 50k miles, this adds up. Good luck.
HKS (http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/hks_metal_flow_intake/1510-sa006/)


I wasnt talking about the air flow issue, rather the weight difference in removing the tailgate. As I said before, as my friend and I see it, the airflow issue is negligible.

[mechmike0034]

I wasnt talking about the air flow issue, rather the weight difference in removing the tailgate. As I said before, as my friend and I see it, the airflow issue is negligible.

I think the dirtier aerodynamics of no tailgate would offset any potential mileage gain that could be derived from lighter weight.


And this is different from what I said how? I don't like unwarranted "I'm with stupid" signs, but I can handle them when I am incorrect. :)

* I'm with stupid to be changed to: I'm REALLY with stupid. haha

It wasn't a slap at all. I totally agree with your comments. Seriously, sorry if you took it personally, as I don't find you stupid at all. The aero study was great - glad you brought it out.

[thresher]

It's all good. and I, too, agree with the "dirty aerodynamics" theory. I also think you should trademark that name as it is cool as hell. Want to save weight in a 2004? Ditch that aweful set of hubcaps and steelies and go for aluminum rims if your truck came that way. Saves 14#s on each corner just with stock replacements. BIG weight savings.
T

[attgig]

300 bucks. get maybe 1-2 mpg?

best case scenario:
let's say you get EPA highway mpg's (19) and you drive 12000 miles per year.
that's around 630 gallons 1 year.

if you got let's say 2 extra miles per gallon (21) and u drive 12k miles /year
570 gallons in 1 year.
630-570 = 120 bucks saved in one year.

it'll take about 2&1/2 years before you start making money.

and that's if you can keep your foot off the pedal.

[logicdc]

Popular Mechanics did a study a while ago where they covered the tranmission tunnel under the truck and gained a couple mpg, same for a few other spots and they were up 10+ mpg. I wish I still had the article -- short one page but very informative.

[blueindian]

300 bucks. get maybe 1-2 mpg?

best case scenario:
let's say you get EPA highway mpg's (19) and you drive 12000 miles per year.
that's around 630 gallons 1 year.

if you got let's say 2 extra miles per gallon (21) and u drive 12k miles /year
570 gallons in 1 year.
630-570 = 120 bucks saved in one year.

it'll take about 2&1/2 years before you start making money.

and that's if you can keep your foot off the pedal.

don't you need to multiply the 120 gallons save by the price per gallon? 120 gallons X 2.50 per gallon = $280 saved

but i still say no way in hell will you get 2 mpg savings with a cold air intake and removing your tailgate. i think that, at best, you'll loose 1 mpg.

best bet is to get a different vehicle for a daily driver. i love my truck, but no way in hell would i use it as a daily driver.

[thresher]

Well, that being said - I also drive 20k miles a year, in an F150, not 12k so 2 mpg can make a difference. I am personally funding half the Alaskan pipeline. :2far:
I got my mileage difference from a much better exhaust (cat back) and the air cleaner. I am keeping an eye out for a used glassfibre bed cover.

[blueindian]

Well, that being said - I also drive 20k miles a year, in an F150, not 12k so 2 mpg can make a difference. I am personally funding half the Alaskan pipeline. :2far:
I got my mileage difference from a much better exhaust (cat back) and the air cleaner. I am keeping an eye out for a used glassfibre bed cover.

do you have to drive that vehicle? i have some sympathy for folks who have to drive a big truck for work or whatnot...but for folks who choose to? :shrug: they made the the bed. . .

[ufcrusher]

do you have to drive that vehicle? i have some sympathy for folks who have to drive a big truck for work or whatnot...but for folks who choose to? :shrug: they made the the bed. . .


I'm curious about how you define "have to drive that vehicle"? If someone doesnt fit into other cars/trucks and has to choose between certain full size models and high end luxury cars, the difference in price between a $30K truck and a $55K+ car is a lot. I think you could say that they had to drive that vehicle.

[cheapie]

then you answered his question. i kinda agree with bi. apparently, you needed that vehicle because of fit. however, i know plenty of average people that whine about their explorers sucking down the gas. well no ****!

[Airencracken]

I'm curious about how you define "have to drive that vehicle"? If someone doesnt fit into other cars/trucks and has to choose between certain full size models and high end luxury cars, the difference in price between a $30K truck and a $55K+ car is a lot. I think you could say that they had to drive that vehicle.

Depends on what you mean by "fit". If you mean fat (not by way of disease) then nope not acceptable. I you mean tall, then chop off yer legs! j/k that's acceptable.

[DarkFury]

do you have to drive that vehicle? i have some sympathy for folks who have to drive a big truck for work or whatnot...but for folks who choose to? :shrug: they made the the bed. . .
Heh... /me so glad I have an alternate vehicle to use in these "hard gas times" :D

[blueindian]

Heh... /me so glad I have an alternate vehicle to use in these "hard gas times" :D

that's what i'm talking about. i've got a v6 pickup, but at these prices you can bet that it stays parked and i drive the 4-banger car unless i need the truck.

[sibergirly]

you guys are lucky to have an alternate vehicles. I don't and I am always having to drive around. I have an suv 4 runner 97. It used to be I would pay 20 dollars to fill it up now I am filling it up everyday at 40 dollars!! :P If I can ever afford another car it is going to be a very very small one or one that doesn't take gas. :)

[ufcrusher]

Depends on what you mean by "fit". If you mean fat (not by way of disease) then nope not acceptable. I you mean tall, then chop off yer legs! j/k that's acceptable.

I think I will keep my legs thank you! My fitting issues have nothing to do with being fat, fat people (hopefully) can fit into any car...although if they are too heavy the car may be scraping the pavement.

[DarkFury]

you guys are lucky to have an alternate vehicles. I don't and I am always having to drive around. I have an suv 4 runner 97. It used to be I would pay 20 dollars to fill it up now I am filling it up everyday at 40 dollars!! :P If I can ever afford another car it is going to be a very very small one or one that doesn't take gas. :)
Heh...

Well considering that my T-Bird has a V8... I can't say that it is as fuel efficient as a 4 banger... but it does get better mileage than the truck does.

I just spent $24 to fill her back up for the past week of driving... the HEMI woulda taken like $40 for that same amount of travel.

Hell yeah I'm gonna drive the car for awhile... :D

[sibergirly]

Heh...

Well considering that my T-Bird has a V8... I can't say that it is as fuel efficient as a 4 banger... but it does get better mileage than the truck does.

I just spent $24 to fill her back up for the past week of driving... the HEMI woulda taken like $40 for that same amount of travel.

Hell yeah I'm gonna drive the car for awhile... :D
You are lucky 24.00, gosh wonder how much it use to be when we were in the dollars. My relatives are from North Carolina and they called me complaining cause they just hit 2.00 per gallon. I said live here we are going to hit 3.00 soon if the prices keep going up.
But if you lived in Europe they are paying 5.00. But they have been paying 5.00 for about 7 years (or more) Why all of a sudden we keep going up and down why can't we just pay a flat rate and stay like that?? Why can't we just go back to 99 cents ha ha I wish. :heh:

[DarkFury]

You are lucky 24.00, gosh wonder how much it use to be when we were in the dollars. My relatives are from North Carolina and they called me complaining cause they just hit 2.00 per gallon. I said live here we are going to hit 3.00 soon if the prices keep going up.

Well, she wasn't bone dry... Pretty much I had about 1/3 tank left. But she only has about a 18 gallon gas tank versus the Hemi which has a 26 gallon tank.

Add to that that she gets like 8 more MPG in the city... than the Hemi and she's the obvious choice for me to drive right now.

Now if gas gets up to $3.00 per gallon... I may have to consider buying something even smaller. Any good deals on scooters out there with a "car seat" in the back? :D :hihi:

[sibergirly]

Well, she wasn't bone dry... Pretty much I had about 1/3 tank left. But she only has about a 18 gallon gas tank versus the Hemi which has a 26 gallon tank.

Add to that that she gets like 8 more MPG in the city... than the Hemi and she's the obvious choice for me to drive right now.

Now if gas gets up to $3.00 per gallon... I may have to consider buying something even smaller. Any good deals on scooters out there with a "car seat" in the back? :D :hihi:
well if you find a scooter out there like that let me know ha ha. :)

[Nanotech9]

didnt read but the top two posts...

basically, the more air you're engine can bring in, the more gas it will feed it (to a point).

this is how a turbo works... you force air down teh motors throat, it senses just how much you're shoving down it (MAF) and then gives it the corresponding amount of fuel based on whatever you've mapped in its computer.

you dont give an engine more fule to run stronger, you give it more air... the fuel comes secondary to the air.

[ufcrusher]

Ok...for cat back exhausts, what do your recommend?

Obviously, the brands I know off the top of my head are Borla, Corsa, Magnaflow, and Flowmaster. There are a tons of other brands out there as well.

The better systems will be mandrel bent and made of stainless steel...right?

Any opinions as to what one is the best to go with?

I had a local shop off to make a one off set of pipes for me for $450 installed, but they arent mandrel bent. The guy said that he would probably go with flowmasters and it would be around $600 installed.

What does everyone think.