Why I will NEVER buy another FURD product...

[DarkFury]

Well... 3 days ago, I had to put the Nas-T Bird in the shop for repairs. I was driving down Interstate 70 when all of a sudden the "low coolant" light popped on. Eh... no big deal, I would just stop somewhere and pick up a gallon of Prestone. A few miles later, the CEL popped on. Now usually this is no big deal as it could've been a sensor out of whack... however the car began to shimmy and vibrate like it wanted to shut off or something.

Yes... the "OH SH@T feeling kicked in at that point as I limped the car to Auto Zone to buy some coolant.

Upon advice from mechmike0034, I was able to find a local shop with good references. What they reported was that my plug wires had gotten burned and stripped down to the bare wire... which most likely caused the CEL. However on top of that, they told me that the plastic intake manifold had developed a crack in it that was leaking coolant.

Now honest to goodness... I don't know why FURD would make front end of the intake manifold out of plastic. Older cars have aluminum or some other cast metal for that part... but OH NO... not on MY car.

So in tallying up the cost of the repairs, it comes out to around $1300 of which about $1000 is attributable to the intake manifold. And since my car is out of warranty... guess who gets to eat that.

But get this... back in 1999, Ford released a Dealer Memo alerting them to faulty intake manifolds but they didn't make any type of announcement to any of the owners. This memo stated that the manifold would be covered for 7 years and unlimited miles from the start of the vehicle service date.

Searching the web, I found a copy of the memo...

http://www.littleboyinc.com/uploader/uploads/FordBulletin01.jpg

http://www.littleboyinc.com/uploader/uploads/FordBulletin02.jpg

http://www.littleboyinc.com/uploader/uploads/FordBulletin03.jpg

Pretty much... they KNEW about this, yet it is their position that this was only an "extension" of the basic warranty and that since my failure occurred outside of the time frame stated (which I didn't even know about prior to today) that I was SOL in getting them to cover anything about it.

What a crock of sh@t... If they KNEW that there was a defective part that could potentially ruin the rest of the engine, then they should've alerted us and fixed it when there was time. Now they are hiding behind their time limit.

Any lawyers in the house wanna advise on this? I looked out on the web and saw that there were several disgruntled folks out there with the same problem I am having with the intake manifold... and some of them sued and won.

Pretty much, this is the end of the road for me and Ford... I will NEVER buy another of their products for myself. I've had 2 of them and honestly, except for a few exceptions... their SERVICE ABSOLUTELY SUCKS!!! You'd think after the Firestone/Explorer debacle...they'd be better about announcing recalled/faulty parts and want to get them fixed without causing much hassle. Guess not huh...

Thanks mechmike0034 for gettin' me up to speed on this.

[bachviet]

Fix Or Repair Daily products

[p3rsian]

not a bimmer

[Houdini]

No, b/c with a bimmer when this stuff happens, they deny the existence of these service bullitins. Then they mock you for having learned about the TSB from the internet. Then, after getting a couple of beeper pages, they become really curious about your occupation. Then they start brewing you coffee, asking you to drive their latest M3/M5. Then they fix the problem. Next time, if the same people are there, you might get special "Hey doc!" treatment. Bastards.

Anyway, DF, it does sound like they should have let you know about this known issue/recall. I'm not a lawyer, but perhaps ones services would help a lot in this situation.

H

[LegendKiller]

Audi does something similar. Banker I know bought a fully loaded S4, out of 296 days she owned it it has been in the shop for 251. They denied everything and gave her a 2001 nissan maxima for a loaner.

German auto manufacturers suck these days.

[LPMiller]

Every car company does this. They also have programs called secret recalls, where if you bring you car in for one thing, they secretly fix the recalled item as well. GM did this with the trannies on GMC Jimmy's and Suburbans for many many years, as the transmissions would crap out all the time. So if you brought in your car for a tune up, they would secretly replace the transmission with a rebuilt one.

Isuzu did the same thing with the hinges on early Troopers.

Honda did it/is doing it with the front end struts on the 01-03 Civics.

You cannot put faith in a car company.

[Jeffbx]

Ah yes - the 'silent recall'. Dealers are notified about defects that they are authorized to fix, but no announcement is ever made to the car owners.

There was a HUGE slient recall back in the mid-late 80s on peeling paint on practically every small & mid-sized Chevy & Pontiac car. If you complain loudly, they would re-paint your car for free - they paint they originally used was defective & would begin to peel about once the car was about 3-5 years old. Maybe you've seen an older Grand Prix or Cavalier with horrible peeling paint - that's what happened.

However, if you never complain to the dealer, or if you weren't persistent enough, too bad. You get stuck with a crappy car with peeling paint.

Every manufacturer does this (silent recalls). If you notice a problem & take your car into the shop, ask them if there are any recalls on it. If you're lucky, they'll look it up while you're standing right there.

[RIVERWIDOW]

Audi does something similar. Banker I know bought a fully loaded S4, out of 296 days she owned it it has been in the shop for 251. They denied everything and gave her a 2001 nissan maxima for a loaner.

German auto manufacturers suck these days.

If this car was brand new when purched, in the state of Calif, it would have fallen under the lemon law. they could have received full reinburshment. :boxing:

[LegendKiller]

If this car was brand new when purched, in the state of Calif, it would have fallen under the lemon law. they could have received full reinburshment. :boxing:

No, CT, although she did hire a lawyer and they took the car back.

[DarkFury]

not a bimmer
Holy Crap... you're back eh?

Yeah.. but your bimmer ain't got a HEMI in it. :D

[Showtime]

That sucks. Pretty sad what companies do to get over on their customers. :disa:

-j

[Realrammstein]

[Knock on wood]
I have had my ford for 12 years, now. It has been the absolutely most reliable car I've ever had (over previous BMW, Pontiac, Chevy, and Nissan). I am not happy about the serivce i got from the dealer (post sale). But I have never been happy with dealer treatment. I am either going back to Ford or GM this year.

[DarkFury]

Thing is... this was Ford Corporate speaking here. Not the dealer.

I knew that they wouldn't do anything about it... however coming from Corporate... well, I'm just very disappointed in their level of customer commitment.

Needless to say... there may be a very good chance that I'll take every FURD badge off of my Bird... Dayuum blue oval. :angry:

[IceDaJuevos]

ford has not been doing well for the past...oh...40 years?

[INeedAVacation]

I've had a 1998 Ford Ranger since ohhhh 1998 when I bought it new. It has about 90k miles on it and has never had any major problems. The front brake pads just recently wore out and were a cinch to replace. I also replaced the alternator (which I may have not had to do if I would have replaced the original battery sooner). The dome light would come on because a sensor would apparently sense the door was ajar (when it was not) but that was easily fixed when I took out the dome light bulb :D . (Anyone know where the door sensors actually are exactly?-do not say "on the door"). Other than those minor issues, my vehicle has performed awesomely!-Just routine maintennence which I do myself. It has been and is my favorite vehicle I have ever owned.-The cheapest with the least issues. My next vehicle will definately be another Ford. Seen the '05 Mustang?-Sweet

As far as issues with recall info., etc. I don't think Ford is really any different than the other major auto manufacturers.

[Airencracken]

Really because when there was a possible problem with the battery pack in my Prius, Toyota notified me immediatley and they even gave me a rental for the day it took to inspect/fix the possible problem.

[InfiniteNothing]

Really because when there was a possible problem with the battery pack in my Prius, Toyota notified me immediatley and they even gave me a rental for the day it took to inspect/fix the possible problem.
With a few safety issues they must notify you by law. It only makes economic sence to notify car owners of the bare minimum. Otherwise we'd pay much more for cars. That's why it's good to always keep up with the TSBs.

[INeedAVacation]

With a few safety issues they must notify you by law. It only makes economic sence to notify car owners of the bare minimum. Otherwise we'd pay much more for cars. That's why it's good to always keep up with the TSBs.

Exactly, companies are required by law to notify the public of recall items or possible recall items if the items fail a specific safety requirement. If they realize one of the speakers to your radio may stop working without notice, they will not notify you because it would not meet that safety threshold. If your battery may become unstable and possibly blow you up, they would probably need to let you know.

[DarkFury]

With a few safety issues they must notify you by law. It only makes economic sence to notify car owners of the bare minimum. Otherwise we'd pay much more for cars. That's why it's good to always keep up with the TSBs.
Unfortunately, this notification only went out to dealers... and any "casual search" for it turns up nothing.

I went to SEVERAL sites and looked up the recall status on my Bird.. and most said "none found"...

The images posted above sure don't look like "none found". Besides... most folks don't go lookin' for trouble.. however if this problem was known and they even went as far as removing the defective part from their catalog and replacing it... then they have a RESPONSIBILITY to notify owners of this.

What woulda happened had my engine blown up on me.... it could have happened and I thank my lucky stars that it happened the day before I was about to go out of town and I was gonna drive my Bird. I woulda REALLY been SOL if I had left town with it.

I'll be talking to legal counsel on Monday about this... so we'll see where this goes.


Exactly, companies are required by law to notify the public of recall items or possible recall items if the items fail a specific safety requirement. If they realize one of the speakers to your radio may stop working without notice, they will not notify you because it would not meet that safety threshold. If your battery may become unstable and possibly blow you up, they would probably need to let you know.
I would say that a defective intake manifold which could cause an extreme loss of coolant which could consequently cause a major engine failure... falls into this category...

Hence my being upset with them and their lack of notification.

[InfiniteNothing]

What woulda happened had my engine blown up on me.... it could have happened and I thank my lucky stars that it happened the day before I was about to go out of town and I was gonna drive my Bird. I woulda REALLY been SOL if I had left town with it.

That's what fire walls are for ;)

[DarkFury]

That's what fire walls are for ;)
Yeah... I'll tell that to my "next of kin". :hmm:

[OremuS]

While I am in the boat of I will never buy another Ford or GM car, I did have great luck with my 86' Mustang Gt. Only major things I had to do was replace a radiator, clutch and brakes over the 215,000 that the car had on it. The Grand Prix I had however turned out to be a piece of chit...at least as far as the motor is concerned. SPun a bearing at 100k miles and after doing significant research I found out that it was a pretty common thing for the type of motor that was in my car.

[bbrian]

Sorry to hear about your tbird problems. I actually knew about that recall from my 96 tbird. Fortunately mine went out in the 7 year period.. found that out when I took it into the shop. I'm just glad I had taken it to a dealer or it would have cost me $$..

The tbird problem and a problem I had with a chrysler is why I won't buy domestic cars anymore. Both had major 'known' issues that neither mfg was notifying people about. Goes to show that it doesn't matter how well you treat a car, if it contains poor quality parts and known defects it isn't going to last.

I have an 03 accord now, and they actually notified me a while back about a transmission overheating problem and they installed an additional cooler and extended my warranty after inspecting the transmission to make sure there was no damage. The feds weren't forcing them to do this either.. they did it on their own. Many recalls from Ford, GM, and Dodge/Chrysler wouldn't ever see the light of day if it wasn't for the feds urging them to do so.

Unfortunately, Good customer service is hard to find.

[sizemic1]

Can you get an aftermarket manifold? Like an Edelbrock performer or something?

[DarkFury]

Can you get an aftermarket manifold? Like an Edelbrock performer or something?
nah.. I just ended up with a NAPA OEM replacement...

Total cost for everything (including new plug wires and a tune up)... $1332.58


Owwww.... my achin' wallet. :cry:

[styleee]

There was a HUGE slient recall back in the mid-late 80s on peeling paint on practically every small & mid-sized Chevy & Pontiac car. If you complain loudly, they would re-paint your car for free - they paint they originally used was defective & would begin to peel about once the car was about 3-5 years old. Maybe you've seen an older Grand Prix or Cavalier with horrible peeling paint - that's what happened.


My parent's 89 chevy beauville van had horrible paint. the dealer actually repainted the silver (it was 2 tone) but not the burgundy... i guess the silver started peeling first. the van looked like crap for years. whenever i would see the same van it always had paint that looked like it was a 30 year old car that was never washed.

[mechmike0034]

What year is your 'Bird again? I can't recall...

Reason being - I just saw this: http://www.fordmanifoldsettlement.com/faq.html

If you have a '97, you might be in luck. If it is a '96, you're SOL...

[DarkFury]

What year is your 'Bird again? I can't recall...

Reason being - I just saw this: http://www.fordmanifoldsettlement.com/faq.html

If you have a '97, you might be in luck. If it is a '96, you're SOL...
Mine is a 96... guess I'm SOL.

SONOFABEEEYATCH!!!! Why on earth did they exclude the '96 model year!!!! :angry:

This is bullsh....... :angry:



"KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN !"

[Kevster]

"KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN !"


http://www.khaaan.com/

[bbrian]

Send in an objection that your model should be included. Include a printout of the information that you posted from Ford earlier about the part being obsolete. You never know, they could have just gotten the dates wrong. The website contained instructions on how/where to send the objection. You have a chance at getting reimbursed.. even if it is a slim chance.

[EvilHorace]

You're complaining about a 10 yr old car? Most need repairs of some sort by then and although I don't know about newer Chrysler products, I do know that GM has also used plastic intakes for many years now too and also have had MANY known issues with those too.
Being an auto tech, I have yet to work on ANY car line that doesn't have its list of known issues that show up as any car ages. One can expect to put money into any older car once the warranty expires.
Me, I'll keep my even older cars (now 2 at 20+ and still OK) w/o any plastic engine parts thank you :)

[Burzhui]

ya man guess what never had a repair outisde of maintanace bull****, on my 95 cougar, but freaking ford doesn't cmpare my infinity... it's like worlds appart man

[thresher]

wait till those new hybrids start breaking down..... all those computer management parts that keep the electric and motor components in harmony? :eek: I don't care what brand you're driving - ditch that car at 100k miles!

[DarkFury]

You're complaining about a 10 yr old car? Most need repairs of some sort by then and although I don't know about newer Chrysler products, I do know that GM has also used plastic intakes for many years now too and also have had MANY known issues with those too.
Being an auto tech, I have yet to work on ANY car line that doesn't have its list of known issues that show up as any car ages. One can expect to put money into any older car once the warranty expires.
Me, I'll keep my even older cars (now 2 at 20+ and still OK) w/o any plastic engine parts thank you :)
HELL YES... I'll complain about a 9 year old car!!!!

The main complaint is... they originally issued their "silent recall" about 7 years ago... and never informed the other owners of the issue.

The ONLY reason MY car made it to 9 years before having the problem is that I have a second vehicle to share my driving workload... My NINE year old car only has like 82,000 miles on it... which for the folks who actually got the recall notice (taxis and police service vehicles, etc...) would've been past this level of mileage in about 2 to 3 years where they would have the trouble.

A DEFECTIVE part is a defective part. If they went through the trouble of actually taking this part out of their parts catalogue and replacing it with a better design then obviously this is not a "just a wear item" issue. We as owners deserved to be notified and have this fixed within the warranty period... which FURD did not do.

So YES... I will bitch about it.. and I will NEVER buy another FURD product again. PERIOD.


Send in an objection that your model should be included. Include a printout of the information that you posted from Ford earlier about the part being obsolete. You never know, they could have just gotten the dates wrong. The website contained instructions on how/where to send the objection. You have a chance at getting reimbursed.. even if it is a slim chance.
I think I'll try that.... since the phone number they gave only gives you an automated line.

Maybe I'll send them a copy of my repair bill too... of about $1300.

[EvilHorace]

A DEFECTIVE part is a defective part. If they went through the trouble of actually taking this part out of their parts catalogue and replacing it with a better design then obviously this is not a "just a wear item" issue. We as owners deserved to be notified and have this fixed within the warranty period... which FURD did not do.

Again, Ford's no different than ANY other car manufacturer with things like that. I've worked in Volvo dealerships for over 20 yrs now (plus others) and Volvo has the same issues with parts that are known to be bad soon after the car is sold new. It's called planned obsolescence. When engineers design something like a plastic intake manifold, they KNOW that by a certain time/mileage, it's going to fail. They designed it like that by intention. They want you to be pissed enough to buy another car BUT preferably one from them again, not "the other guys". It's all about $$$. Unless someone forces a recall (safety issue), even though the manufacturer knows the parts are bad, they'll gamble that most will make it out of warranty. No car manufacturer wants you to keep any car for more than 4 years (not built for longevity anymore), they want you to trade it in for another. They also don't care about older car once the warranty expires, nor a second hand car owner.

As for the "secret warranty" notion, it's really that some people get parts covered slightly out of warranty IF they know it's a problem at that time and BITCH. It also helps if the customer is what's considered to be a "good customer" to that particular dealership. It's politics.
You could easily run into the exact same senerio years down the road with ANY other brand of car, don't put Ford out there as being the only company that you feel is wrong there.
Personally, if I wanted a new domestic car, I'd buy a new Ford over a similar GM anyday. I really like there new 'stangs but the one I'd pick, the Shelby GT 500 probably won't be too affordable.

[InfiniteNothing]

Well stated. But I don't think the man's gunna budge (until dodge issues a TSB and he isn't notified :hihi: )

[DarkFury]

Again, Ford's no different than ANY other car manufacturer with things like that. I've worked in Volvo dealerships for over 20 yrs now (plus others) and Volvo has the same issues with parts that are known to be bad soon after the car is sold new. It's called planned obsolescence. When engineers design something like a plastic intake manifold, they KNOW that by a certain time/mileage, it's going to fail. They designed it like that by intention. They want you to be pissed enough to buy another car BUT preferably one from them again, not "the other guys". It's all about $$$. Unless someone forces a recall (safety issue), even though the manufacturer knows the parts are bad, they'll gamble that most will make it out of warranty. No car manufacturer wants you to keep any car for more than 4 years (not built for longevity anymore), they want you to trade it in for another. They also don't care about older car once the warranty expires, nor a second hand car owner.

As for the "secret warranty" notion, it's really that some people get parts covered slightly out of warranty IF they know it's a problem at that time and BITCH. It also helps if the customer is what's considered to be a "good customer" to that particular dealership. It's politics.
You could easily run into the exact same senerio years down the road with ANY other brand of car, don't put Ford out there as being the only company that you feel is wrong there.
Personally, if I wanted a new domestic car, I'd buy a new Ford over a similar GM anyday. I really like there new 'stangs but the one I'd pick, the Shelby GT 500 probably won't be too affordable.
What you fail to understand here is... this was the FINAL straw for me.

Personally, FURD's customer service has ALWAYS sucked. I've already owned a '89 Furd Probe and a '96 Furd Thunderbird (courtesy of me having a friend who is a Furd Dealer.) and yet both of these vehicles had their fair share of issues.

Unfortunately, my dealer friend is back in Florida and I've lived all over the country where I can't take it back to him for service... but even in taking all of the branding off of the vehicle to show where it was purchased from, I've gotten all kinds of sh@tty service in about 4 different states... therefore I've got a firmly rooted notion that Furd doesn't really give its customers due concern and justice. This latetest adventure just solidified the decision for me.

Personally, I could (or couldn't... for the grammar nazi's out there :D ) care less about the Mustang or GT Shelby... cause the chances of me ever owning one are quite slim. But hey... more power to you if you want to continue a relationship with this company... I sure as hell ain't.

As far as the part... well obviously alot of people must feel the same way I do since there is a Class Action Suit out dealing with this very topic. I'm sure the Explorer/Firestone people feel the same way as well... Furd has lost my trust and short of them GIVING me a freebie... I ain't coming back. My dollars sure spend very well somewhere else.

BTW... One year has passed, and the HEMI still runs great with no major issues. GO DODGE!!!! :D If I could afford to trade in the T-Bird (which has very little residual value now... but as a "paid for" car is still good enough to keep) I'd go get a Chrysler 300C and pimp it out.


Well stated. But I don't think the man's gunna budge (until dodge issues a TSB and he isn't notified :hihi: )
At least if they don't let me know something "critical" like the top half of my engine is gonna explode... then yeah... :hmm:

[EvilHorace]

I'm not really trying to change your mind being that you've already made your decision anyway, just trying to point out that Ford is just one out of the masses with the same issues as percieved by many customers of other brands.
Being with Volvo, I browse Volvo forums on occasion and see the exact same complaints, with people saying the same things, "the last straw, never again, etc, etc" except with Volvo, they thought that they were buying a better car and paid alot more money for it.

I'll bet that you can go to Dodge, Chrysler, GM, Honda, Subaru, Toyota, BMW, etc, etc forums and read similar situations with people also saying that they'll never buy another one.

The electronics (with longevity, durability in mind for continued use AFTER the warranty expires) SUCKS with most new cars today. It's become far too complex for what's necessary in a car IMO. There will be more cheaply made, plastic parts used too and by everyone.

Something that I should also point out is that while you might hate your T-bird for its parts related issues (not going to comment on the other Ford product), there are MANY who simply deal with things like that and still love the car anyway, excepting the fact that it's going to need a few repairs over its life. If you go to Ford forums, I'll bet that you'll see many who have 200-300K miles on similar T-birds and still like the car, plan on buying another Ford too.
The good thing about buying products today, especially a used car (for example) is that one can easily research the products online thus know where its known problems exist before purchasing.
One always needs to proceed with caution whenever buying the first two model years of ANY new car as they ALL have issues that eventually get resolved by the 3rd year (usually).

[DarkFury]

Never said I didn't love my T-Bird... I just hate the company it is associated with. (BTW.. my T-Bird is/was nowhere near the "first through third model years of the line... the basic design of my car hadn't changed much since about 1989)

My T-Bird has been fairly trusty... and pretty much since I've stayed on top of it's maintenance it probably will be with me for several more years to come.


And yes... I know that many folks love/hate various companies... but honestly, as of late FURD has had more Public eye issues that involved litigation over it's product...

The Explorer / Firestone debacle and the recent Ford 150 "engine spontaneously catch on fire" problem come to mind.

Either way... if you like Furd... then so be it. Enjoy whatever they have to offer you... however in my eyes, "Customer Service" isn't Job #1 anymore with them. And don't even get me started about their past bad decisions on what cars to offer customers.... It's almost like they are living the "You can have them in any color... as long as they are Black" days. :2far:

[EvilHorace]

As for some reported auto issues, you can't believe everything you hear/read. I wouldn't blame Ford for the Firestone tire issues as many of those reports were with under-inflated, worn tires and over-loaded vehicles. My stepfather has owned Explorers since the first year, has put probably about 100K on each before trading and never had any tire related problems. He claims the tires lasted over 100K miles and I've never had any tire last that long on any car I've owned but then, I don't drive like an old man either ;)
Don't know the details about the engine fire claims but all cars have recalls that when reported to the press, usually sound much worse than what's really happening. Volvo's also had recalls for potential engine fires, fuel rail can come apart but we've never seen one that did come apart yet.
Volvo's also being investigated for some of thier electronic throttle module problems and yes, we know that the parts are NG and costly but the press is making the story sound more dangerous than what we usually see occur.

If you saw how the auto business works from the inside, then you'ld understand why many don't always seem thrilled with their personal perception of customer service. One thing's for sure, in dealers they're graded for CSI so customer service does matter, UNLIKE the medical profession and many others where your opinions simply don't count. I've seen people (managers, etc) get fired for having bad CSI scores.

[DarkFury]

You can blame who you want to blame... however I have FIRST hand proof that FURD sucks...

Obviously you are either a FURD supporter or are just playing "Devil's Advocate".... and that's fine if that is what your angle is. As the thread title states... my intent is obvious at this point.

[EvilHorace]

You just want to bitch and you're at a PC ralated websight, not a FORD sight so few here probably even care really. You might get more sympathy at a Ford forum. You're still keeping the car and admit that you like it so it can't really be all that bad or you would have got rid of it years ago. I know of many people who hate a car, often a new car so bad that they'll lose their ass in order to get rid of it, saying that "they'll never buy another one". Guess what, the next one is probably equally bad to them.
Today, all car companies have long warranties so consumers are better off now that they were years ago when I first got into the business. When I first got into it, cars had a 12K mile/1 yr warranty and that was that. If something costly went out at 15K miles, you were SOL. Today people still want free stuff with older, high mileage cars even when the longer warranty expires.

I DO own a Ford but the only original OEM part on it is it's interior (see my "websight").

I'm also not trying to be Pro-Ford but am pointing out that there's no perfect car, perfect car company in modern day existance.

[DarkFury]

You are in the AUTOMOTIVE SECTION of a DEALS website.... which caters to "us" to include PCs and Cars.... so my posting here is totally correct.

If I wanted to bitch in a FURD site.. I would have... not that it would change anything. BTW... you don't even have to post in this thread if what I say bothers you... JUST IGNORE IT. Or start your own thread ... "WHY I LOVE FURD". :D

Either way.. please stop trying to tell me what I can and can't do... we all have equal rights here and if I choose to post here and the managment don't disapprove then so be it.

Obviously enough people, including you care as you are still reading this. And if you reply again, then that is further proof that you care about what I'm saying here. So please... step off your high horse in telling me how I should feel about this company. If you don't wanna listen to my opinions, then by all means ignore me... it won't bother me a bit.

I keep my T-Bird because it is paid off and I can't afford to replace it at the current time (I have other concerns that are HIGHER priorities than buying a new car). I have paid much money to have it repaired and hell yes I'm gonna drive it till the doors fall off. This doesn't mean that I will EVER take it to a FURD dealer for future repairs NOR does it mean that I will EVER buy another brand new FURD.

Yes, there aren't any "perfect cars" or "perfect car companies"... but I expect MORE from my car company than what FURD has given me. If Dodge ever makes me feel the way I currently feel about FURD, then I'll leave them too.

Case in point... I did have an issue with a local Dodge dealer a few years back on my Dodge Dakota (which was outside of the warranty period)... and I had to raise the issue with DC Corporate for resolution and it got resolved... DC Corporate at least extended the EFFORT to help me come to a solution... FURD Corporate didn't do this in 2 issues I've had with them in the past... therefore I am of the firm opinion that they don't give 2 sh@ts about me as a customer and likewise I don't give a crap about them as well.

As far as warranties go... you can ask others on this forum as they know... I believe in "extended warranties". But with stuff like this, even the extended warranty didn't help since it wasn't detected until after that had expired. More or less a MOOT point here.

So now you have a choice... you can stop bitchin at me about my bitchin and go on about your business or you can continue with me in PM... cause I do get the sneakin' suspicion that if you and I continue this dialogue in the forum, the GAM will step in and close my thread... and I don't want it to come to that. So I do ask.. if you have anything else to say to ME instead of the issue here, then please do it by PM... otherwise, I have nothing else to say to you about it.

Have a nice day...

[AlpineJay]

You just want to bitch and you're at a PC ralated websight, not a FORD sight so few here probably even care really. You might get more sympathy at a Ford forum. You're still keeping the car and admit that you like it so it can't really be all that bad or you would have got rid of it years ago. I know of many people who hate a car, often a new car so bad that they'll lose their ass in order to get rid of it, saying that "they'll never buy another one". Guess what, the next one is probably equally bad to them.
Today, all car companies have long warranties so consumers are better off now that they were years ago when I first got into the business. When I first got into it, cars had a 12K mile/1 yr warranty and that was that. If something costly went out at 15K miles, you were SOL. Today people still want free stuff with older, high mileage cars even when the longer warranty expires.

I DO own a Ford but the only original OEM part on it is it's interior (see my "websight").

I'm also not trying to be Pro-Ford but am pointing out that there's no perfect car, perfect car company in modern day existance.

That's a good point about the car companies not being perfect but I don't believe that's not what he's saying at all. I don't believe DF thinks that Chrysler/Dodge is perfect whereas Ford is not, but that some car companies are better than others. Any car company's going to have its own share of problems, but I don't think there's any real reason to get into an argument about this. Lots of car companies obviously exist due to the fact that each has a varying degree of loyal customer base, so there's obviously going to be different opinions present.

DF isn't looking for sympathy. He's just looking for a channel to vent. I don't really understand why that's such a problem with you but it's not worth getting into an argument about. After all he's stating his personal experience with Ford and you obviously have different experiences.

Also, the reason why DF is keeping his T-Bird, as he said in this thread, is because it is a "paid-for" car that serves as transportation and is not worth all that much money in the open market.

[doolittle]

I worked at a place that had a small fleet of Ford Econoline vans. We always considered them as a disposable vehicle, we bought them brand new loaded them with heavy tools and parts. After 100,000 mi we sold them in the auto trader. I always felt sorry for the lucky buyer of one of these gems after we were done abusing them. When the warranty expired, we never took them in for maintenance, oil changes etc, We just added fluids as needed, changed the tires and basically waited till something actually broke down, before it was fixed. Ill have to say they were pretty reliable and we had very few problems with them, it made good business sense. But you could tell at about 95,000 it was going to just fall apart at any time. Transmissions were slipping and the engine was either worn out and or had broken mounts. electrical was fried, Brakes systems were badly warn leaking etc.

[Nanotech9]

hey guys - most american made cars i can think of (and maybe others) are using the plastic intake manifolds... my parents '99 Olds 88 manifold cracked just about a month ago... a lot of the brand new trucks (chevy, ford, etc) are like this also.

now see, i drive a BMW, good old aluminum intake manifold. Just dont ask me about my really low oil pan or why i've replaced it three times and just now built a steel skid plate for it lol.

[DarkFury]

hey guys - most american made cars i can think of (and maybe others) are using the plastic intake manifolds... my parents '99 Olds 88 manifold cracked just about a month ago... a lot of the brand new trucks (chevy, ford, etc) are like this also.

now see, i drive a BMW, good old aluminum intake manifold. Just dont ask me about my really low oil pan or why i've replaced it three times and just now built a steel skid plate for it lol.
Yeah.. that's the funny thing about all of this... The "NEW" replacement part for the intake manifold is still mostly plastic, however the part that makes the actual connection to the intake pipe (don't know what the technical name for that pipe is) is now made out of aluminum... and they removed all of the older designs for that part from their parts catalog.

Pretty much, they corrected the flaw in the old design which was known to crack and drop an assload of coolant when it did.... I'm sure a good stretch of I-465 here in Indy had my "coolant signature" sprayed all over it when mine blew. I was lucky to make it to the shop when it went considering that mine went in the middle of a busy highway.

[EvilHorace]

Either way.. please stop trying to tell me what I can and can't do... we all have equal rights here and if I choose to post here and the managment don't disapprove then so be it.

Obviously enough people, including you care as you are still reading this. And if you reply again, then that is further proof that you care about what I'm saying here. So please... step off your high horse in telling me how I should feel about this company. If you don't wanna listen to my opinions, then by all means ignore me... it won't bother me a bit.

Look, it's the internet and a person can post/question anything else posted. I'm not on any "high horse", all that I've been trying to do here with you is TRY reasoning with you, try explaining why some things aren't perfect BUT you don't wish to talk or reason here. You're venting and obviously all that you want to see here is others who also have had bad experiences with Ford, thus take you side. I don't personally care what you buy next.

[Realrammstein]

Dang. Well I have seen Darkfury on here for years. I think you both make some valid points. I loved my Ford (93 Probe with 170K+ miles) for years (most reliable car I have ever driven). I will not say anything bad about Ford, myself (only switched brands b/c I love the new Z). But if I had the same luck DF had, maybe I would be in here cussin' about the Ford name, too. Agree to disagree? It's hard not to be passionate about cars. but can we try a little less :argue: and little more :shakehand? Now, I'm off to get me some free soap! :)

[DarkFury]

Look, it's the internet and a person can post/question anything else posted. I'm not on any "high horse", all that I've been trying to do here with you is TRY reasoning with you, try explaining why some things aren't perfect BUT you don't wish to talk or reason here. You're venting and obviously all that you want to see here is others who also have had bad experiences with Ford, thus take you side. I don't personally care what you buy next.
Trying to reason with me eh? You sure have a strange way of trying to reason with someone who has a different opinion than you have.

I agree that anyone can post what they want... hence me questioning you as to why I shouldn't have posted my thoughts here... that sword cuts both ways.

I can agree to disagree... I also can accept that others may not feel the way as I do... but I draw the line when people tell me what I should and should not think or feel about a topic. And that is the only problem I had with everything you have said before.

Your initial post just reeked of finger pointing as if I had no right to complain... and it went downhill from there. Now.. .if you are willing to respect my opinion I can respect yours. If you choose not to respect it, then you get the same disrespect back.

That's my thoughts on that. As always... I tell folks... when YOU spend YOUR money... buy whatever makes you happy. However, I will express what has happend to me and my experience and if folks here put any value to what I say, then they'll make their own decisions as to whether or not they want to deal with a company such as this.

This thread is no different than the "I hate Dell", "I hate Intel", or whatever threads all through this forum. Those folks have the right to express their opinion... however nobody will go to them and tell them to "be quiet and quit complaining" because I haven't had the same experience as you have. That is where I have a small problem with you (although it is not big enough a problem for me to really lose any sleep over this disagreement)... You came in here being the "Posting Nazi" and you did the same thing in Burz' thread about car stereos... So how can you stand on a soapbox on your last post and proclaim that "it's the internet and a person can post/question anything else posted".

Practice what you preach brother.... Practice what you preach. :2far:

[kimchicowboy]

can't we all just get along? :hug: hehehe

[DarkFury]

can't we all just get along? :hug: hehehe
Sure we can.... KUM BA YAA.... and all that good sh@t. :D

[Nanotech9]

just figure you're lucky you didnt kill the car and then try to restart it later (or did you?)

my understanding is once the coolant fills up the combustion chambers after the motor has stopped running, if you try to crank it or start it, it'll start bending the rods because of hydraulic lock or something like that... (i.e. water doesnt compress)

[EvilHorace]

This thread is no different than the "I hate Dell", "I hate Intel", or whatever threads all through this forum. Those folks have the right to express their opinion... however nobody will go to them and tell them to "be quiet and quit complaining" because I haven't had the same experience as you have. That is where I have a small problem with you (although it is not big enough a problem for me to really lose any sleep over this disagreement)... You came in here being the "Posting Nazi" and you did the same thing in Burz' thread about car stereos..

"Posting Nazi" ? PLEASE, all that I've done here was to initially ask a few questions and make a few points. People do that everywhere, even in threads that I create. I didn't tell anyone here to be quiet either.
I obviously struck a nerve or two just by bringing up a few points. You were happy as long as someone like me didn't ruin your "I hate .....carma" simply by making a few basic observations. Anyway, I've meant nothing personal here towards anyone nor did I feel that I was trying to.

[johnnymk]

When the first plastic intake manifolds came out, I told my friend who is a mechanic: "That is really a dumb idea. With the heat variations and the vibration of the engine, those things aren't going to last".

I guess I was correct.

I am presently installing a '92 5.0 fuel injected engine into a 64 Mustang and am running into some problems with the engine harness. I can't believe how Ford's color coding in the harness varies from year to year and model to model,. But standardization was never a hig priority with them. However, I am totally impressed with the bulletproof design of the 5.0 engine.

[DarkFury]

"Posting Nazi" ? PLEASE, all that I've done here was to initially ask a few questions and make a few points. People do that everywhere, even in threads that I create. I didn't tell anyone here to be quiet either.
I obviously struck a nerve or two just by bringing up a few points. You were happy as long as someone like me didn't ruin your "I hate .....carma" simply by making a few basic observations. Anyway, I've meant nothing personal here towards anyone nor did I feel that I was trying to.
Alright... I've moved on now. Thanks for sharing.

[ufcrusher]

So we have someone who works for Ford (Ford owns Volvo)....complaining that a person who owns a Ford and has all these problems doesnt have a right to complain?

I have repeatedly complained about my crappy Ford product....that I bought brand new and babied. Ford doesnt give a rats ass about their customers.....even when they fully admit that it was a manufacturing defect that resulted in a destroyed car which had been repeatedly brought into them with problems. Even when they know its a lemon they fight to not take it back. And apparently even fraudulently deletes records that prove the customers case....because otherwise, they would have seen why my car was destroyed when it first went into them and been forced to repair it at their cost.