Bus seatbelts?

[BigJon]

Why DON'T buses have seatbelts? Somebody on Yahoo asked..


Dear Yahoo!: Why don't school buses have seat belts? Otto
Dear Otto: Two things all moms tell their kids -- don't smoke and always wear a seat belt. No problem on the not smoking, Ma -- but wearing a seat belt on the school bus? That's rarely an option. So what's the story? Shouldn't school buses have the same safety features as cars, trucks, and SUVs? Well, not necessarily. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/buses/pub/seatbelt.hmp.html) argues that seat belts aren't the most effective way to protect passengers on school buses. Instead the big yellow beasts employ something called "compartmentalization."

Think back to your days on the good ol' school bus. Remember how those rigid green seats (http://www.cewhite.com/sb-seats-prod_info.html) were wedged closer together than on even the cheapest no-frills airline? That's compartmentalization (http://www.luhs.org/depts/injprev/Transprt/tran1-08.htm) in action. Sitting in "strong, closely-spaced seats that have energy-absorbing high seat backs," passengers are effectively protected from crashes. Of course, the method can't prevent all injuries, but the NHTSA argues it's the best possible solution. Several studies have shown seat belts would provide "little, if any, added protection."

School districts are permitted to add seat belts to buses, but they also must make sure the seat belts are used properly. And as anyone who's ever ridden on a bus full of elementary school children knows, that's no easy task.

Even so, plenty of folks feel seat belts on school buses should be mandatory. The National Coalition for School Bus Safety (http://www.ncsbs.org/facts1.htm) believes compartmentalization doesn't protect against "rear-end, lateral and rollover collisions." And they contend that seat belts are affordable, even for cash-strapped school districts.



My argument is that, yes, buses should have seatbelts. Aren't they big and top heavy enough to roll over? Those seats won't protect against rollovers like they said. I dunno... :shrug:

[ArkiStan]

Ok somebody needs to post that one clip with 30 kids in a school bus bouncing and hitting the ceiling.

[cheapie]

they should NOT have them. i work very closely with blue bird bus, one of the top 2 school bus manufacturers and they agree that it's a bad idea. the seats are designed to protect the kids in 99.9% of the crashes that occur. rollovers are fairly rare. also, for seat belts to work there would have to be some way of ensuring that all the kids are using them. that means making the bus immobile until all the belts are fastened. costly time and expense would be wasted. how many kids have actually been killed in bus crashes due to a lack of belts.

i understand it's kids and that get a lot of attention but the current seats are very well designed and for the vast majority of crashes, work well.

[chrissy]

Also, the bus my kids ride they sometimes have 4 to a seat. With seatbelts, they would have to run more buses. That overcrowding is more of a danger than no seatbelts.

Heck, seats on buses have come a long way since I rode a bus -- if you were to hit the back of the seats in the 70- 80's, you would hit the unpadded metal frame and the wood back that the seat was attached to.

[BrewMaster]

they should NOT have them. i work very closely with blue bird bus, one of the top 2 school bus manufacturers and they agree that it's a bad idea. the seats are designed to protect the kids in 99.9% of the crashes that occur. rollovers are fairly rare. also, for seat belts to work there would have to be some way of ensuring that all the kids are using them. that means making the bus immobile until all the belts are fastened. costly time and expense would be wasted. how many kids have actually been killed in bus crashes due to a lack of belts.
they wouldn't have to design seats for crashes if they put seatbelts in there.

also, there's no reason to say that the bus has to be immobile before all belts are fastened. that would be an utterly stupid design, especially with an empty bus. the bus driver would just have to make sure kids put on their seatbelts, just like they make sure the kids are sitting down and not eating on the bus. really, it's not that complicated.

[Jeffbx]

It also puts a HUGE liability burden on the bus driver if there are seat belts. All of a sudden, they are responsible for ensuring that 75 kids wear their seatbelts & don't remove them for the duration of the ride. Good luck enforcing that on a bus full of rowdy kids.

Another argument against them is that in the event of an accident where the kids have to be evacuated from the bus (say it's on fire or stuck on a train track), it would take too long for one adult to unbuckle & get that many kids off the bus safely, esp. younger kids.

[chadlnc]

They should just put in roller coaster style lap restraints. That should do the trick. Before the bus starts rolling the driver lowers the restraint and off they go. http://www.gotapex.com/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

[InfiniteNothing]

They should just put in roller coaster style lap restraints. That should do the trick. Before the bus starts rolling the driver lowers the restraint and off they go. http://www.gotapex.com/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif
That would be really cool. I wonder how much that would cost.

[speedracer120]

And if one rascal happens to wiggle out of the lap bar as has been know to happen, however rare? Who's responsible then?

[chadlnc]

And if one rascal happens to wiggle out of the lap bar as has been know to happen, however rare? Who's responsible then?

He would be responsible for keeping his hands and feet inside the ride at all times.

[speedracer120]

LOL.

Maybe they'd have a continuous track on the bus that said. Please remain seated at all time, remanecen sentados por favor.

But honestly how many kids like to be strapped down??? Kids love bouncing off the seats and crowd the windows and junk.

[BrewMaster]

They should just put in roller coaster style lap restraints. That should do the trick. Before the bus starts rolling the driver lowers the restraint and off they go. http://www.gotapex.com/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif
that would be awesome. we should start our own bus company on that idea.

[InfiniteNothing]

And if one rascal happens to wiggle out of the lap bar as has been know to happen, however rare? Who's responsible then?

at that point, what are the odds of crashing.

[speedracer120]

:shrug: Disasters happen when a bunch of improbables just collide at once.

[Grubbie]

Ok somebody needs to post that one clip with 30 kids in a school bus bouncing and hitting the ceiling.


LOL I remember in elementry, the bus would hit a bump and if you bounced at the right time it would bounce you into the ceiling. Those were good times :D

[cheapie]

the bus driver would just have to make sure kids put on their seatbelts, just like they make sure the kids are sitting down and not eating on the bus. really, it's not that complicated.


:| i'm guessing you don't have any kids.

[Merlin]

So the seats are fine as they are, but why not have the seat belts in place for the kids that choose to wear them?

[cheapie]

because the seats are designed to bend forward with the child's weight. if there's a seatbelt holding the student upright while a couple of kids are making his seat bend forward from behind....

[BrewMaster]

because the seats are designed to bend forward with the child's weight. if there's a seatbelt holding the student upright while a couple of kids are making his seat bend forward from behind....
i don't see your "logical conclusion." if the kid is held to the seat and the kids behind him are making the seat bend forward, then the kid with the seatbelt leans forward a bit. it doesn't seem like a big deal to me, but clearly I am missing what you were getting at.

even if the seats are designed for crashes, a seatbelt wouldn't hurt.


:| i'm guessing you don't have any kids.
:| i'm guessing you don't have an engineering degree. :poke: :P

i don't need to have kids to talk about this. sure, kids act up and bus driver can't control each one of them all the time. but that is certainly not a valid argument not have seatbelts in the buses.

[InfiniteNothing]

:shrug: Disasters happen when a bunch of improbables just collide at once.

I see. But if lives are at stake, why get all bent up about liability. Who cares who's liable... that one kid wins the Darwin award... all the rest who would have died are saved.

[cheapie]

i don't see your "logical conclusion." if the kid is held to the seat and the kids behind him are making the seat bend forward, then the kid with the seatbelt leans forward a bit. it doesn't seem like a big deal to me, but clearly I am missing what you were getting at.

even if the seats are designed for crashes, a seatbelt wouldn't hurt.


:| i'm guessing you don't have an engineering degree. :poke: :P

i don't need to have kids to talk about this. sure, kids act up and bus driver can't control each one of them all the time. but that is certainly not a valid argument not have seatbelts in the buses.


put a backpack in you lap, put your seat belt on, and have someone pull the seat lever and push it forward.

[BrewMaster]

put a backpack in you lap, put your seat belt on, and have someone pull the seat lever and push it forward.
that's a gross oversimiplification I think. when I was a kid I always had my backpack on the floor. :shrug:

there is so much evidence that seatbelts save lives and now many states require everyone in a car to wear a seatbelt, yet somehow giant school buses are safer without seatbelts? i find that very hard to believe. not to mention that the bus driver is wearing one too.

[cheapie]

the bus driver doesn't typically weigh the same as a student or have a giant padded seat in front of him/her to cushion the blow.

while i had nothing against seat belts in busses, i have conversed on this subject with the president, and several VPs of the world's second largest school bus manufacturer and i'm just conveying their comments. but you prolly know more about it than they do. ;)

[BrewMaster]

the bus driver doesn't typically weigh the same as a student or have a giant padded seat in front of him/her to cushion the blow.

while i had nothing against seat belts in busses, i have conversed on this subject with the president, and several VPs of the world's second largest school bus manufacturer and i'm just conveying their comments. but you prolly know more about it than they do. ;)
it's not a matter of knowlege, it's a matter of trust. i don't trust manufacturers to set safety requirements of their products.

[cheapie]

this would be big money for them. they could charge more for buses that have belts and selt retrofit kids. it would certainly take money to engineer the changes but in the end, the taxpayer would bear the burden.

[BrewMaster]

this would be big money for them. they could charge more for buses that have belts and selt retrofit kids. it would certainly take money to engineer the changes but in the end, the taxpayer would bear the burden.
that's only if the customer (the tax payer) is willing to pay for the upgrade. considering how strapped school districts are for money (at least in CA) they are not likely to see any payback IMO. schools are trying to save money and stay above water. and while i would love to see seatbelts in school buses, i don't think it will happen until it is legally required. no one involved is sufficiently financially motivated.