How Episode III could have been better (spoilers abounding)

[JLemonjello]

Whether you loved/hated Episode III, everyone can acknowledge that things could have been done to make it better.

1) Less reliance on Special Effects. The effects were great in this movie but the movie seemed to RELY on them, not use them to enhance the movie. The main pet peeve I have with that is that the lightsaber fights were too zoomed in and effect-ed up. You can't see the fight very well. Episode I had the best blend of effects/real-life in my opinion. It was very futuristic looking but still looked REAL, something I cannot say about Episodes II and III. Episode I had the perfect zoom level for the light saber fights as well.

2) Some of the dialogue, of course, was cheesy and stupid. You'll have that.

3) The Yoda line about how Qui Gon could communicate or whatever, pointless.

4) The beginning of the movie was like pure slapstick. That was really odd and didn't seem to fit the Star Wars theme.

== SO here is a question...
Mace beats down Sidious, Sidious beats down Yoda
Anakin beats down Dooku, Dooku beats down Yoda
Whats up with Yoda? haha

Also, as far as all this nonsense about recognizing droids, you have to remember that we are constantly seeing them throughout the story via A CAMERA. The main characters see them FAR LESS than we do and we are seeing a few main events throughout their lives that are YEARS long. Plus, all droids look the same and Obi Wan would be more likely to recognize his astro-droid, R4.

[Merlin]

Episode I had the perfect zoom level for the light saber fights as well.

According to Lucas the lightsaber battle in Ep. I was supposed to be the one where we can see what a Jedi in his prime could do. It was the one where he wanted to have the best fight. The others were supposed to be more emotional. He wanted to to feel the personalities of the combatants rather than just see the fight.



== SO here is a question...
Mace beats down Sidious, Sidious beats down Yoda
Anakin beats down Dooku, Dooku beats down Yoda
Whats up with Yoda? haha

Dooku didn't beat down Yoda in the least. Yoda bettered him and merely allowed him to escape in order to save the two fallen Jedi.

And the Emperor and Yoda looked a lot like a draw to me. Although Yoda did run and hide.

Line from ep II "As wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as master Windu" To me that implies that Mace was their strongest.

[molecularfire]

1) Less reliance on Special Effects. The effects were great in this movie but the movie seemed to RELY on them, not use them to enhance the movie. The main pet peeve I have with that is that the lightsaber fights were too zoomed in and effect-ed up. You can't see the fight very well. Episode I had the best blend of effects/real-life in my opinion. It was very futuristic looking but still looked REAL, something I cannot say about Episodes II and III. Episode I had the perfect zoom level for the light saber fights as well.
:stupid: That's what pissed me off about episode 3. They spent so much time on the special effects that they sacrificed the story (in probably the most story intense episode of the whole series) and with the exception of the yoda/palpatine fight the special effects weren't even good.

== SO here is a question...
Mace beats down Sidious, Sidious beats down Yoda
Anakin beats down Dooku, Dooku beats down Yoda
Whats up with Yoda? haha

1) I don't buy that Mace beats Sidious. I think that Sidious was faking it to draw aniken into the battle. He had to have aniken betray the Jedi in order to burn that bridge for aniken. He knew that Aniken wouldn't let him die since he was the only chance for Padme.
2) I also think the Sidious/Yoda was a draw but the problem was that if Yoda didn't win by the time help comes for Palpatine Yoda is pretty much screwed. He left not because he couldn't fight Palpatine but because he couldn't fight Palpatine and the security that by then had come.
3) Dooku did beat Yoda. Yoda had him bent over a table violating the dark side of his force when he knocked over that big metal thing to crush Obi-Wan and Aniken. Yoda chose to save those two Jedi instead of going after Dooku.

[DarkFury]

:stupid: That's what pissed me off about episode 3. They spent so much time on the special effects that they sacrificed the story (in probably the most story intense episode of the whole series) and with the exception of the yoda/palpatine fight the special effects weren't even good.

1) I don't buy that Mace beats Sidious. I think that Sidious was faking it to draw aniken into the battle. He had to have aniken betray the Jedi in order to burn that bridge for aniken. He knew that Aniken wouldn't let him die since he was the only chance for Padme.
2) I also think the Sidious/Yoda was a draw but the problem was that if Yoda didn't win by the time help comes for Palpatine Yoda is pretty much screwed. He left not because he couldn't fight Palpatine but because he couldn't fight Palpatine and the security that by then had come.
3) Dooku did beat Yoda. Yoda had him bent over a table violating the dark side of his force when he knocked over that big metal thing to crush Obi-Wan and Aniken. Yoda chose to save those two Jedi instead of going after Dooku.
I don't agree with you on the Mace/Sidious. Yeah... Sidious might have been faking it, but honestly he could be beaten. The Jedi and the Sith are NOT Invulnerable (as has been proven over and over again...) The powers that the Emperor had were matched by the power of Mace. However, I will grant that the "powers of the Dark Side" to cause hesitation and indecisiveness are powerful allies against his enemies. Also... if Mace had just given in to his "Dark Side" (i.e. lose control of the Vaapaad style) then he would be just as bad as the Emperor and "Vader")

More or less... this is problem with relationship of Good vs Evil. Good always has to play by the rules while Evil can take the shortcuts which makes it so that Good has to be overly Good to prevail sometimes. But oh well.. it's a MOOT point since the battle was decided by "outside interferrence" (kinda like Wrasslin' where the good guy gets hit by the foreign object and the ref isn't looking).

Same thing goes for Yoda's fights... in both cases the "Dark Side" couldn't face him straight up.. They have to resort to the "dirty tricks" and "re-inforcements" to win. But I guess in some folks' books a win is a win. :shrug:

Dooku didn't really beat Yoda, but he did force him to make a choice while he RAN AWAY. Most "winners" don't run away from the fight. :D

[molecularfire]

1) I agree with you about the Windu/Sidious fight. I think that Windu could've beaten Sidious in a real fight. However, it wouldn't have been as easy as the actual fight and I do think that sidious was playing possum. In a real fight though, I do think that Windu could beat Sidious
2) That's why I have no desire to be a good guy. I don't have the conceit to play with that kind of a handicap.
3) Oops. I meant to say that Dooku did NOT beat Yoda. The rest of that post says that but I did a typo in the first sentence of #3.

[Kevster]

Remember as well that at the time, Mace did not have to deal with hordes of clone soldiers ready to take him down as well. Yoda not only had to deal with Sidious in a very difficult tactical environment, but he also had clone soldiers searching for him who just happened to be at Sidious' command.

[TofuNinja]

I haven't seen the movie... I read the book, and from the book I thought that the dialog was good.... so maybe the screen writers need to read the book first too :) or something hahaha I will watch the movie once my GF has finished the book or we can no longer hold out.

[Merlin]

I haven't seen the movie... I read the book, and from the book I thought that the dialog was good.... so maybe the screen writers need to read the book first too :) or something
Maybe, sometimes things sound very different when you hear them out loud as opposed to reading.

[TofuNinja]

haha perhaps... we'll see when I watch the movie. But I know in my mind Mace Windu sounds a lot cooler than Samual L Jackson hahaha

[Merlin]

It was always one of the complaints of the actors to Lecas. They said "You can write this stuff but you can't say it."

[Jihforce]

I have a problem with how quickly Anakin turned to the dark side. I can understand his inner struggle, but i found it annoying when he chopped off windu's arm and then said "What have I done!?!?" As if he didn't mean to, 2 seconds later, he's kneeling in front of Sidious and accepting him as a master (sure you could tell he was somehow reluctant but still) So then, my question is, how can someone who was so "reluctant" get the balls to go and kill toher Jedis and even younglings!?? Would have been better if he was sent to kill the separatists first THEN kill the Jedis. T toughen him up. But then, he wouldn't have been facing Obi on mustafar. Anyway. The story wasn't well thought out and it felt rushed. Which leads me to believe he half-assed it and wrote it after 4-6.

[TofuNinja]

To answer your question read the BOOKS. There were a series of events and what not that led to Anakin's fall to the Darkside. His love of Padme and wanted to be with her forever is what eventually turned him. Plus with his only other friend away Sidious was able to turn him easily. Anyway... back to the books, in the battle where he earned his Knighthood he called on his rage (the darkside) to help him. And he does it time and time again. I did it in the last book of the Jedi Quest series as well. His fall is not quick by any means. It is all there, but most of the people didn't read all of the stuff out there to see it.

[Jihforce]

To answer your question read the BOOKS. There were a series of events and what not that led to Anakin's fall to the Darkside. His love of Padme and wanted to be with her forever is what eventually turned him. Plus with his only other friend away Sidious was able to turn him easily. Anyway... back to the books, in the battle where he earned his Knighthood he called on his rage (the darkside) to help him. And he does it time and time again. I did it in the last book of the Jedi Quest series as well. His fall is not quick by any means. It is all there, but most of the people didn't read all of the stuff out there to see it.

I don't doubt the books are more comprehensive. but the movie rushed it. The flow was just not there. I'm not a die hard StarWars fan, so i probably won't be jumping into the books. I just want to watch a well written and direct movie. I think it felt somewhat short of that expectation. 3.5/5 stars. :D

[TofuNinja]

Well all three books for EP1,2 and 3 were ten times better than the movie... The books for the original trilogy kinda lacked and followed the movie almost word for word. Maybe in EP 5 ESB did they offer something new... but I can't remember. oh yeah, I can't speak for 3 yet... haven't seen it :)

[Merlin]

Well all three books for EP1,2 and 3 were ten times better than the movie...
Okay, pimping the books is starting to get a little old. Maybe if you just put it in your signature it might save you a lot of typing. :hehehmm:



Maybe in EP 5 ESB did they offer something new... but I can't remember.
There was a lot more on Luke's training with Yoda. When Luke was doing his physical training with Yoda on his back, Yoda would jump down every so often and throw a stick in the air for Luke to cut with his saber. Yoda said a Jedi would be able to get 8 pieces out of it before it hit the ground. As Luke's skill increased he got it into more pieces. It gives you a sense of how he is progressing.

Funny, when I read that it was always hard to imaging Yoda being spry enough to do that. By now....yeah, I can see it.



oh yeah, I can't speak for 3 yet... haven't seen it :)
I think it is about time for you to get your skinny ass to the movies. :wavey2:

[Booyamos]

ok so anyone else find it strange at the end, when the emperor was like "darth vader is in trouble, get my ship"

Then 5 min later he is on the other side of the galaxy picking up Vader's charred body? I know the ships are fast... but that fast?

And why the hell didn't Obi Wan just stick a lightsaber through his head as he was laying there? I understand he couldn't kill his "brother", but you think it would be better than letting someone you care about slowly burn to death there. Then it would have just been the Emperor left, no Vader.

[molecularfire]

Then 5 min later he is on the other side of the galaxy picking up Vader's charred body? I know the ships are fast... but that fast?
I don't think the two fights occurred simultaneously as the movie showed it. I think the Sidious/Yoda fight occurred first while Obi Wan and Padme were still flying to Aniken.


And why the hell didn't Obi Wan just stick a lightsaber through his head as he was laying there? I understand he couldn't kill his "brother", but you think it would be better than letting someone you care about slowly burn to death there. Then it would have just been the Emperor left, no Vader.
Someone posted a excerpt from the book in one of the other threads that goes into what Obi Wan was thinking/feeling at the time that kinda makes that a little easier to swallow (although the Obi Wan in the movie didn't act like someone who would be thinking that). What I don't get is why didn't he just force push Aniken back into the Lava pit instead of cutting off several of his limbs. I mean that's the first thing you do in the video game.

[DaFunkyUnit]

ok so anyone else find it strange at the end, when the emperor was like "darth vader is in trouble, get my ship"

Then 5 min later he is on the other side of the galaxy picking up Vader's charred body? I know the ships are fast... but that fast?

And why the hell didn't Obi Wan just stick a lightsaber through his head as he was laying there? I understand he couldn't kill his "brother", but you think it would be better than letting someone you care about slowly burn to death there. Then it would have just been the Emperor left, no Vader.

<T-Ninja>
well, if you just read the book, it'll explain how...
</T-Ninja>

[DarkFury]

And why the hell didn't Obi Wan just stick a lightsaber through his head as he was laying there? I understand he couldn't kill his "brother", but you think it would be better than letting someone you care about slowly burn to death there. Then it would have just been the Emperor left, no Vader.
That would pretty much kill the whole idea of a continuous story through Episodes 4 through 6 wouldn't it? :heh:

[Houdini]

I have a problem with how quickly Anakin turned to the dark side. I can understand his inner struggle, but i found it annoying when he chopped off windu's arm and then said "What have I done!?!?" As if he didn't mean to, 2 seconds later, he's kneeling in front of Sidious and accepting him as a master (sure you could tell he was somehow reluctant but still) So then, my question is, how can someone who was so "reluctant" get the balls to go and kill toher Jedis and even younglings!?? Would have been better if he was sent to kill the separatists first THEN kill the Jedis. T toughen him up. But then, he wouldn't have been facing Obi on mustafar. Anyway. The story wasn't well thought out and it felt rushed. Which leads me to believe he half-assed it and wrote it after 4-6.

Yeah...Anakin seems a little unstable/misguided/nuts/dependent/confused during the movie. He did a lot of moping, leering, and generally acting strange. A better actor probably could have made that whole story line more believable.

Did anyone else notice the rather...er...suggestive pose Anakin assumed when swearing allegiance to Palpitine? The expression on Palpitine's face was priceless.

Ewan McGregor carried the movie. Obi-Wan's constant bemused demeanor was great. The guy is unflappable, and he seems to find everything funny.

I had to cringe with some of the lines. "Did you push the stop button?" "No, did you?" "No." Why the hell would Anakin ask, "did you?" right after he was asked that question. :rolleyes:

[molecularfire]

During the movie, I keep having this thought in my head that the verbal give and take between Obi Wan and Aniken seemed familiar to me somehow but I couldn't pin exactly what it reminded me of. I finally got it. They seemed like the Gilmore girls in the early seasons when the whole show seemed driven by their verbal give and takes.

Wait... that's not good...

[Houdini]

During the movie, I keep having this thought in my head that the verbal give and take between Obi Wan and Aniken seemed familiar to me somehow but I couldn't pin exactly what it reminded me of. I finally got it. They seemed like the Gilmore girls in the early seasons when the whole show seemed driven by their verbal give and takes.

Wait... that's not good...

You watched the early seasons (or any seasons) of the Gilmore girls? Hmmm...

H <---has never watched Gilmore girls

[TofuNinja]

Okay, pimping the books is starting to get a little old. Maybe if you just put it in your signature it might save you a lot of typing. :hehehmm:
:wavey2:

I'll figure out how to do that ;) I'll have to word it right.

[molecularfire]

You watched the early seasons (or any seasons) of the Gilmore girls? Hmmm...

H <---has never watched Gilmore girls
Oh yeah, I think it was an awesome show. I like the mixture of drama and comedy and find both of them adorable. I still watch it but don't follow it as religiously as I used to because I don't like the direction they have been taking the daughter. They are really slutting up the show (probably to keep pace with all of the other teenish movies out there) and I find that disgusting. IMO, it's lost a lot of the innocence that got me to like it to begin with.

[BigJon]

I heard it could have used less transitions...

http://uploads.ungrounded.net/238000/238514_lucas.swf