Why people hate car dealers

[Mike_N_Ike]

Any thoughts? I always saw going to buy a car as a game for the most part...the buyer vs. the seller...but after working in the business for a few months, it seems as though a lot of people really hate buying cars. I would've thought the opposite because I'm usually really excited by the time I get myself to go out and buy a car.

But anyways, what do you guys think? What is it about the process that people hate so much...the haggling, all the paperwork, or just spending that much money on something??

[ufcrusher]

Its the slimy blood sucking salespeople who sit there and make a claim that they will get you X only to come back with W. When you say that you will only go for X, they start saying well if you put more money down you can get X. When you point out that they said that you would get X for the amount you have, they say well my manager is being really tough about it and wont give in. I really thought I could get you X. When you threaten to walk away they say, well we will give you W and half of X...if you put down the other half.

I used to love car shopping, until my wife took all the joy/fun out of it. The problem wasnt my wife per se, but rather that she looks at car shopping from a straight forward perspective. I want X car for X dollars, give it to me or not. She cant stand dealing with all of the shifty manuevers such as holding onto your keys, turning you over to other members, manager hard balling etc. They would have deals advertised then refuse to admit that they existed. For example, BMW national was running an ad showing a 325i, Auto, Premium, Xenon etc with certain figures. When we asked for a comprable car they sat there and claimed there was no such ad. Finally after leaving and coming back with a PRINT ad of it later, they started trying to claim that all the numbers were different.

They constantly switch what the money rates are i.e. $30 per $1000 financed vs. $16 per $1000 financed vs. $20 per $1000 financed. This is all during the same weekend.....at the SAME dealership at times.

The constant underpricing of everything. The claim that a car is only valued at X, when you know for a fact that its Y and if you dare bend over, they will sell it for Y+reconditioning fees etc.

I cant think of ANYTHING good to say about car dealers. I have yet to find one that is not all about the money.

[Thesifer]

the haggling, all the paperwork, or just spending that much money on something??


I don't think they hate any of the above mentioned, I think the problem comes in that they hate being Taken for more money than the car is worth. People have a rather bad image of car dealers (especially used) and they feel that no matter how hard they try or have planned, somehow the dealer is going to rip them off. Which they will be pissed at for months or longer ruining the entire experience of that car they just bought :) .. My solution when I was young and naive and I got ripped off, was an accident that totalled the car 6 days later. No I didn't do it on purpose, it was just my form of "Luck" coming back to help me. It was great because I overpaid for the car, so insurance would have left me with about 5-6K To pay off and no car. Although somehow the "shady used car dealer" (Which he definately was) Talked me into "GAP" Insurance, which I wasn't even really listening to, but at the time it was 99$ and had the words "Insurance" and it went into the price anyways. Well that covered the rest of what I owed on the car, and 600$ over that. So minus the raising of insurance rates ( because it was my fault ) It worked out better and cheaper in the end. Luckily shady dealer guy wanted an extra commission, Im glad I'm good at reading my legal documentation.

[Kevster]

I cant think of ANYTHING good to say about car dealers. I have yet to find one that is not all about the money.

:stupid:

For a good read on the low tactics of car dealerships, check out this multi-part article at Edmunds:

Confessions of a Car Salesman (http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html?tid=edmunds.a.landing.feature..3.*)

[SnowSurfer]

i would really never buy a new car again after you see how much value it loses the second its off the lot, used cars and private sellers are the way to go, sometimes you just have to wait for what you want

[Cubsfan]

Any thoughts? I always saw going to buy a car as a game for the most part...the buyer vs. the seller...but after working in the business for a few months, it seems as though a lot of people really hate buying cars
What do you do? If you're a salesman, how do you work?

[DarkFury]

Here's my personal reasons why I hate car dealers.... (If it weren't for the "love of the car" I sure as hell wouldn't deal with folks like this...)

1. They always try to high ball you on the sales price of their vehicle and low ball you on the trade in value of your vehicle.

This one reason alone is what causes MUCH anger... First of all, when it comes to trade in, they use the "infamous" BLACK BOOK which quotes much lower values for your used vehicle. They also don't take into account any of the "extras" that make a car more appealing for a quicker re-sale to another customer (i.e. stereo add ons, custom wheels, custom paint jobs, and all kinds of accessories that make your current car worth more than what is in the "book".)

2. They use "pressure tactics" to try to force you into a decision.

Personally, I don't want anyone pressuring me to buy anything. If they know that you are desperate, then you might as well hang a raw steak around your neck and go swimming with the sharks. More or less, I think that car salesmen can smell fear... and they capitalize on this whenever they have a chance.

3. They outright lie

More or less... a salesman will tell you what you want to hear to get your commitment to buy... then before you know it, they toss you in front of a totally different person (be it the "sales manager", the "finance manager", or the "general manager") who then proceeds to do the "creative accounting" which confuses the whole deal.

All of a sudden, all kinds of "non discussed" things start showing up on the final tally... and you end up paying more than you originally agreed to. When I bought my Dakota a few years back, the FM was ringing up all kinds of funky numbers... including additional charges for "security etching" the windows and such. I was like... hey, I didn't agree to that... Of course they put the "hard sell" on me to agree to it, but I declined and they ended up deleting the charge. Pretty much if you ain't paying attention, stuff like that will get shot right by you and you'd not even be the wiser.

4. Kickbacks

More or less... dealers know that there are gonna be kickbacks for them moving units from their dealership. And most of us know that they are gonna get them. So why is it that they make it seem like they are doing YOU a favor only knocking off a very small percentage from the price of the vehicle. Pretty much "factory incentives" don't come out of their pockets... and even when you get the "house deal" of at invoice, they still will make money on the deal. However to talk to them, you'd think that you were snatching food out of their mouths....

Honestly, I'd be curious to see what percentage of a dealerships income came strictly for vehicle sales versus what comes from the service department.


In my own particular case... every time I find a dealer with a salesperson I feel that I can trust... they don't seem to stay in that position very long. Turn over is terrible in dealerships and honestly they are a breeding ground for the "sharks" as these predators are the best sellers for the company who make the most profit for the dealership. I guess it just doesn't pay to be a "caring" salesperson... as that takes too much time away from the pressure sales.

Just my opinion on the topic... :D

[Mike_N_Ike]

What do you do? If you're a salesman, how do you work?
Yeah, I'm the internet/fleet guy at a dealership. I do retail every now and then -- but normally just when they run out of salespeople.

Thanks for the input so far...this has been extremely interesting to read. I'm hoping to be able to figure out a way to make things more pleasant for the people that I deal with (and myself :) )

[Cubsfan]

I bought a car about 2 months ago, so here's my experiences at 2 dealers:

Dealer 1:

Located in my town. Went in, told them exactly what I wanted. They had one of them. The first price they came back with for the car was about $500 over invoice, and for my trade was about $1000 less than I wanted. Felt like they were trying to get me to take the "sucker's deal". Got my laptop out. Typed some stuff in, and told them to do better. They came back with $300 over invoice and $500 more for my trade. Still not good enough. They came back with their "today only" offer. It was $100 over invoice, and what I wanted for my trade. Not too bad, but given the way they were playing the game, told them to do better. At that point, one of the salesmen checked out. Basically turned away and starting looking at stuff on his computer. The other guy went and got a sheet and tried to tell me how crappy my car was, so they were 'losing money' to give me that much. I left.

Dealer 2:
I had called dealer 2 a few days before going into dealer 1. The price they gave me on the same car was $500 under invoice. Went to them immediately after dealer 1. Sat down with them, they gave me the same $500 under invoice price, and what I wanted for my car. No haggling. Came back with an interest rate 1.2% lower than the one with my credit union. Done deal.

Dealer 1 is why I hate dealerships. NEVER come out with a "sucker price". It just pisses me off. Dealer 2 gave me the experience I like. Straitforward, and they gave me a good deal on everything in their first offer. I suppose that they could have done better on the price or trade, but since they came out with a good deal to start, I didn't want to try to haggle.

It also was kind of funny when dealer 1 called me while I was at dealer 2. They wanted to know if I'd "done anything" yet. Boy was it fun to tell them that I already bought the car at a better price (this was like 3 hours later), and listen to the silence on the other end :)

[Thesifer]

The dealer that made it pleasant for me (atleast I havent found out yet that I got screwed .. and I bought the car in 2001.. and Its paid off now) .. Ended up not working at the dealership about a month later :) I think he was too nice to be a car salesman.. and was giving people the deals they deserved knowing it was something the Car Dealership could afford to do.

[Jeffbx]

I don't like car salesmen for one simple reason: their job is to get as much money out of me as possible. Not to get me into a new car, not to make sure I'm buying what I need, not to make sure I understand all of the options on the new models - they exist to get as much cash as possible out of me.

When I'm ready to buy a car, I already know what I want, how much it costs, what the competition is & how much IT costs, what I can afford, and what I'm willing to spend. What value is the salesperson adding to that transaction?

I buy a lot of new cars, because living in Detroit I get discounts from family members who work for the big manufacturers. On average, I'd say I buy/lease a new car every 2 years or so. It's been my experience that it's a VERY rare thing to find a salesperson that really knows about the cars they're selling.

SO - advice for you, Mike (and anyone else that works at a dealer):

1) Know the cars you're selling inside & out. Know all of the options available, and the different packages they come in. I mean, you don't have to memorize minute details, but if someone asks what's the difference between the SE and SLE model, you should be able to tell them off of the top of your head. It does't take long to learn, and they only update models once a year. Take a few minutes to read those glossy brochures.

2) People aren't idiots. Well, OK, many people ARE idiots, but not everyone. Most dealers will assume that you know nothing about cars, financing, leasing or purchasing when you walk into the dealer. In fact, many customer will have researched the hell out of the car before they ever step foot into a dealership (I know I do). Give people the benefit of the doubt - some of them will even be smarter that you & know way more about the cars than you do. One thing that will make me stand up & walk out of a dealership is someone blatently giving me false info. They're either lying or stupid, and either way I don't want to deal with them.

3) Sell people what they want, not what makes you the most cash. I know, that can get you fired. But how many people have you talked to that tell you, 'Yeah, I pay $580/mo for that $25k car on a 48 month lease'. There's making a living, and there's plain screwing people out of their money. Don't be in the second category.

In any case, good luck... it's a pretty thankless job, from what I've seen!

[chrissy]

I agree with everything you all said, but next time, try it as a female.

It seems being female and buying a vehicle is more like not wearing a steak in a tank of sharks, but more like lopping the head off the cow and wearing the bloody carcass in the shark tank.

They want to show us the vanity mirrors and talk about the ease to care for fabrics. Dude, I make the payment on the darn thing. I could care less if the mirror is lighted or not.

[JLemonjello]

I recently purchased a vehicle and had some good experiences, but mostly bad. Some salesman you just know lie through their teeth on everything you say and that just puts a damper on the mood cause no one wants to talk to an a-hole. Also, those dealer tactics can get ridiculous.

I had the whole "we can't find your keys" thing happen to me and I just told them that it was ok, I have a spare. Then, in the middle of our conversation I whipped out my phone and made a phonecall. They asked who I was calling and I told them I was calling my brother, a lawyer in Boston (which is true) and was going to have him arrange for someone to come down and recover my keys. Looking very uneasy, they said ok, and as I walked out someone ran up from behind me and it seems that the keys had been "misplaced" onto the salesmans desk, not the appraisers desk, go figure.

[mcs328]

Me and my brother were in the market for a new car. We both just graduated and got a job after college. I went on a test drive and when I came back, the sales guy was trying to get my brother to sign a form he said was to run a credit check. I read it and it said he agreed to buy the car at x amount. He argued that it was to apply for a loan with the maximum amount. He was outright lying to us.

I don't tlike the lying at all and all the pressure. My parents bought a Saturn and that was a breeze. It is what it is.

[Merlin]

Okay I actually like the process. I enjoy going to the dealership(s) every so often just to check out and test drive cars. When it comes time to buy I like to do my research online then go to the dealership and test drive. At that point it is fun to listen to what they are trying to do to push the sale. I've had some very bad experiences - the worst at a Honda dealership in San Jose, CA when I went in to look at an S2000. They tried every trick in the book. No deal. Best for me has been dealing with the BMW dealership. I've noticed that the more the cars cost the better the dealership will treat you. Higher class clientele I guess :shrug:

For me fighting it out oner the price of a car is almost as much fun as trying to get that trinket for cheaper from the guy in Tiajuana. Just plain fun.

Best piece of advise I can give you in dealing with these people is to tell them up front that you will work out a deal and then sleep on it. Tell them that you would never spend that much money without a night to think it over. Some will be very disappointed - those are the ones you don't want to deal with. Others will say that it makes sense. That's the one you want to deal with.

As for them coming at you with the high number...that's business. Everybody wants to make sure they get the best price for their product - they want to maximize their margins. Don't blame them for it - you'd do it too. Just understand the situation.

[Cubsfan]

As for them coming at you with the high number...that's business. Everybody wants to make sure they get the best price for their product - they want to maximize their margins. Don't blame them for it - you'd do it too. Just understand the situation.

First dealer did it and it insulted me. Second didn't do it, and I bought the car from them. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.

[Burzhui]

8 hours of life i spent to haggle my way into the deal i want.
8 hours at the friggin dealership

[DarkFury]

I've noticed that the more the cars cost the better the dealership will treat you. Higher class clientele I guess :shrug:
Probably because they have a small client base to draw from and they can't afford to let too many potential customers walk out the door...



As for them coming at you with the high number...that's business. Everybody wants to make sure they get the best price for their product - they want to maximize their margins. Don't blame them for it - you'd do it too. Just understand the situation.
Understanding the situation and liking it as a customer are 2 different things... Of course we "understand" why they do that.. but that never means that we like or accept it.

Good thing for us... "lower cost car buyers" that there is competition amongs the common car dealers so that they have to play ball or else you can walk and find a better price somewhere else.

Heh.. I did it with my HEMI. The dealer that sold me the Dakota didn't wanna give me nothing for my truck, and virtually took nothing off of theirs. Funny thing is... they still send me stuff in the mail telling me that it is time to change the oil in the Dakota, and that vehicles been gone for over a year now. :heh:

[sizemic1]

I always go through the fleet manager and save myself most of the hassle. It's the financing people that piss me off trying to add extended warranties, teflon paint sealers, gap insurance, alarms, etc...

[Grimm]

Yeah, I'm the internet/fleet guy at a dealership. I do retail every now and then -- but normally just when they run out of salespeople.
The fleet dealer is probably considered to be the only "good guy" at a dealership. Lots of people will decide what they want and call the fleet dealer to see if he has it. Generaly because he is interested in volume, not high markup, and will give a good price to start. He doesn't want to waste time by playing games like "Four Squares". He wants to talk on the phone, take the order, and get to the next one. The people he genrealy deals with have a high probability for a lot of repeat business so there is nothing to gain by jerking people around, it just costs him more business.

I didn't have a problem last time I bought a car, yes they tried to play games with me, but I was ready for it and had a few of mine to play back. I messed with them pretty bad. If they were human beings instead of car salesmen, I would have felt sorry for them.

[Cubsfan]

I didn't have a problem last time I bought a car, yes they tried to play games with me, but I was ready for it and had a few of mine to play back. I messed with them pretty bad. If they were human beings instead of car salesmen, I would have felt sorry for them.

I always like stories of people screwing with car salesmen. Let's hear it!

[GracieBayb]

i love car dealers! :love2: especially the tall, dark and handsome ones that know how to... uh, never mind :hihi: by the way, can i have your number?

[ray]

As long as you go in prepared and have done your research beforehand, I don't think you will have any problems with car dealers. After your initial test drives and looking at various makes and models, you will pretty much know which car you want to buy. At that point you can just focus all your energy on getting the options you want at the price you want. And everytime the dealers try to sell you something more, you just keep telling them no. They'll get the hint after a few tries.

[ski]

Here's a way to avoid most of it:

Send a fax to all your local dealers that says "I want X model car with Y options for Z price." You basically tell them to contact you if they are interested in making a sale, no contact is accepted as they're not getting a sale. My dad just bought a Camry, and he tried this trick to much success -- 6 Toyota dealers were competing for his sale. Most offered $100 to $500 over invoice. As he drove to the $100 over dealer, he called them and said another dealer offered AT invoice. The $100 over dealer quickly gave in and offered the same.

The last part is tricky, but doing the fax thing sounds like a great idea to me when I buy my first car. I'm not yet to the point in my life where I'll twist arms to get another $100 off :P

[Mike_N_Ike]

I always like stories of people screwing with car salesmen. Let's hear it!
I've got tons of them :P

[Burzhui]

who is this fleet diller and where is he located?

[Jeffbx]

I've got tons of them :P


C'mon - spill!

Don't keep us in suspenders.

[Mike_N_Ike]

i love car dealers! :love2: especially the tall, dark and handsome ones that know how to... uh, never mind :hihi: by the way, can i have your number? :blush:


C'mon - spill!

Don't keep us in suspenders.Man, I wouldn't even know where to begin. Every day it's something new. I've seen people send their friends in to make horrible offers on a particular used car so that when they come in later their slightly less horrible offer will seem like a good deal to take...people putting other dealers on their cell's speaker phone while sitting in a dealership to try to create a bidding war...forgery is always an amusing one. One guy realized that the ex-wife he'd been ranting about the whole day needed to be there to sign off on the car he was trying to trade in. So he told us she was actually outside waiting in the car because she was sick and he'd go outside and have her sign it. When he walked outside, he put the paper up against the side of the building (a tinted window which the sales office was on the other side of), signed on the line she was supposed to sign on, then walked back in trying to pass it off as her signature. There's rarely a dull day at this job :)

[Nija]

who is this fleet diller and where is he located?
the internet fleet manager is who my g/f bought her car from. she found him through yahoo autos (along with 4 other dealers)

[Itsme]

I always remember this story....an older lady came in to buy a car. She asked the salesman the price. He quoted the list price, then just didn't say anything...let her think. After a few minutes, the lady asked. "Well?" The sales guy said "Well, What?" The lady asked if there was any discount. The sales guy told her that every once in awhile he quotes someone the list price and they buy it at that price. He was just wondering if she was one of those type people. She got up and walked out.

Up until this past year, and for the past 20 years I have worked for a compay that was a division of GM so I was able to buy cars for me, my wife, and daughter at the GM employee discount price. It was super...no haggleing, just a nice 15-18% off the list price, plus the same discount off on any added items, and a nice low finance rate via GMAC. Last year I retired, so no more discount. It was so great not having to dicker with sales guys. I'm sure going to miss it.

[doolittle]

i bought a new car 3 years ago, i pretty much enjoyed the experience, though the salesman dident follow up on a couple of my questions and just gave me the awnser i wanted to hear, turns out he was wrong,now i h8 him and wont trust another salesman to get stuff checked out.

[DarkFury]

i bought a new car 3 years ago, i pretty much enjoyed the experience, though the salesman dident follow up on a couple of my questions and just gave me the awnser i wanted to hear, turns out he was wrong,now i h8 him and wont trust another salesman to get stuff checked out.
"They lie"... that was on my list. :D

[mcs328]

I took my car in for service and mentioned I was looking to buy a new car last week. After wandering the lot for like an hour someone finally noticed me. Then told me to wait until September. That conversation lasted like 10 seconds. Gee...I know I look young but young people have money too. I thought the business card and all the vehicle brochures and looking at the stickers would be good sign that says hey I'm interested. Oh well.

[Cubsfan]

I took my car in for service and mentioned I was looking to buy a new car last week. After wandering the lot for like an hour someone finally noticed me. Then told me to wait until September. That conversation lasted like 10 seconds. Gee...I know I look young but young people have money too. I thought the business card and all the vehicle brochures and looking at the stickers would be good sign that says hey I'm interested. Oh well.

I'm young too (26), but I definately found out that the salesmen couldn't tell me anything I didn't already know (because I'd done plenty of research). Don't be afraid to just ask for a test drive, and especially tell them you want to take an extended test drive (1/2 hour).

[WhiskeyPapa]

I have a friend who is the sales manager at one of the local Dodge dealerships. That is like GOLD to me. When I'm shopping for a car, I am 100% sure that he is giving me the absolute best price. I don't always buy from him, but I always go to him first.

[Mike_N_Ike]

I have a friend who is the sales manager at one of the local Dodge dealerships. That is like GOLD to me. When I'm shopping for a car, I am 100% sure that he is giving me the absolute best price. I don't always buy from him, but I always go to him first.
Why would you not buy from him? Just out of curiousity...

[WhiskeyPapa]

Why would you not buy from him? Just out of curiousity...I have three times. The other times it was because he didn't have the vehicle we wanted. For example, he's a Dodge dealer, but we wanted a Ford van.