Can bass and 5x7 speakers go together???

[thekidrocks]

In my other thread re: F150 and factory head unit, I closed in stating that I upgraded from a cheap aftermarket CD HU to an Alpine unit. I am very happy with the Alpine.

Before changing head units, I already ordered 2 pair of Polk EX357 5x7 / 6x8 speakers for the front and rear from Crutchfield. At $29.99/pr on sale I felt I could not go wrong. Wrong. They HAD to be better than what was already there... which turned out to all be Ford OEM. WRONG! They are cleaner but better highs and cleaner midrange - , but what a dissapointment. I've never had a decent aftermarket speaker not blow away the OEM speakers before this... the Polks have less bass extention than the crappy OEMs.

I haven't called Crutchfield yet for a RMA as I have done some local shopping first. I seem to be running into a common issue... 6x9's can do respectable bass on their own, 6x8's and 5x7's can't - or at least aren't designed to. I bought a pair of MTX branded speakers which had the best bass extension in the store (they are better), but not stellar. They were equal to the the Alpines of the same size, at a much lower cost (still over twice the price of the Polks).

Sorry to ramble - but I am really puzzled. Do I need to throw in the towel and install a smallish (read: Bazooka behind the seat) subwoofer? I am tall enough to run the seat all the way back, which leaves me room for something smallish... and I just want nice extended musical bass. You know, the kind my 6x9's in the car have without a subwoofer ;)

[AlpineJay]

I had the same problem when I re-did the stereo on my family's Explorer that I drive now.. I put in two pairs of Infinity Kappa Perfect 672.5s (5x7/6x8) and realized that I was getting very little bass response out of those guys even with an Alpine 45Wx4 amp to it. I had to eventually pick up a sub and high-pass the speakers to get the full range that I desired.

[civicdidex]

if you want real power, not use the head unit to power the speakers, just get an amp.

[DarkFury]

Honestly, factory "full range" speaker setups are designed to play deeper bass notes whereas most aftermarket add in speakers aren't... it just depends on how the factory crossovers are set up to control the bass so not to blow the speakers.

The main difference between OEM speakers and aftermarkets are the "power handling" capabilities. OEMs are designed to use what little power come from the deck and the factory amp (if it has one) and give you the most expanded sound from that... however once you start adding more amplification, then OEMs just get overdriven to the point where they just put out distortion.

In my honest opinion... you really don't get "good bass" out of a "non round speaker" (and yes..there are exceptions to this rule... but I'm mostly speaking about most of the composite speakers like 5x7s and 6x9s) Those speakers are very good at playing midrange and midbass... but just don't accurately reproduce bass and sub-bass notes.

Now when I say this... I know that some folks have mounted 6x9s in their rear deck lid free air style (using the whole trunk as a "box") to put out some bass from 6x9s... however, I've never seen an application where a group of 6x9's would outdo an equivalent number of 10" (or better) subs. And in this case, even an 8" sub would probably kick most 6x9s out of the box.

With many factory 5x7s and 6x9s, they use a baffle to try to fake the speaker out into playing notes that it normally wouldn't play... and they are creative with the built in crossovers that keep the bass from frying the tweets and mids thus giving you a little more overall sound at lower volumes and cut out as your turn the volume to max.

Honestly in a situation like what was described above, I'd highly recommend tossing a bazooka tube (or a similar sub unit) in the mix to add some low end punch to your system. You may also want to consider a nice EQ to help balance your sound amongst your units (as well as control the bass level to the sub). I have a setup like this in the HEMI and honestly for a factory head unit with all aftermarket speakers and amps... it sounds pretty dayum good (I wanted to keep my steering wheel controls...so I didn't replace the HU... although I was tempted to.)

On a side note... Polk Audio really isn't what I call a "bass heavy" type speaker manufactuer anyways. They make an AWESOME mid-range... but for bass...well... I'd look elsewhere. If you are serious about using 6x9s for bass... go look into some Rockford Fosgate 6x9s... or go talk to some of your local stereo guys to see what 6x9s they'd recommend for a better bass response.

Personally, I have Kenwood 4 way 6x9s in my HEMI and they rock... but then again, I'm not using them to reproduce bass... only midrange (I have them crossed over from my amplifier). My MTX subs provide the bass from under the back seats.

[thresher]

Since you didn't pay attention in the last thread you started :) I will try again.... best deal going on the F150 - I have owned 5 of 'em (F150's) and this always travels from truck to truck starting from my '98. I paid, choke, $750 back then. YOU can't beat it for space and bass. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-nvyL2ePPRH0/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=236FRP20AC&search=236FRP20A

[thekidrocks]

Alpinejay, I am glad to see I am not alone... and imagining things. Looks like a good day to go subwoofer shopping.

civicdidex, I've considered that too. I am not trying to blast the windows out - just have good full range sound. With home stereo, I am an audiophile first and home theater second sort of person. But an external amp may be in the future. If I do the subwoofer (looks like it), when I high-pass all 4 mains at the HU, I'll see/hear what I have left for power. Right now it's the attempt to get bass that is pressing the amp, and it's doing well. Very happy to have taken the Alpine route.

Has anyone had experience with the Bazooka subs? I'd be limited to their 6.5" and 8" models. I am going for a legit (IOW home stereo numbers) mid-40Hz lower limit more than BOOOOOOM. Had an M&K MX-200 once... have a 1000 watt Cambridge SoundWorks now in the HT... I am not looking for that 20Hz bottom end in the truck.

[DarkFury]

Since you didn't pay attention in the last thread you started :) I will try again.... best deal going on the F150 - I have owned 5 of 'em (F150's) and this always travels from truck to truck starting from my '98. I paid, choke, $750 back then. YOU can't beat it for space and bass. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-nvyL2ePPRH0/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=236FRP20AC&search=236FRP20A
:stupid:

I have an MTX Thunderform in my HEMI, and I agree... THEY ROCK!!!

[AlpineJay]

Bazooka in my opinion is the ultimately ghetto bass machine. BOOOOOOM and nothing too tight. The design of it allows for a lot of bass (read, boom) to be ported through a tube and a 8" cone. It's small, fairly efficient, clean, and easy to install which is their main selling point. Personally I'm a big fan of sealed enclosures because I prefer tight bass which most ported enclosures can't simulate.

Thunderforms are nice, but really you're paying way too much premium for the space and the "factory" look in my opinion. If you can afford to, great, but if not, then maybe a standard sub setup will do.

JL's 8" subs will give you the best bass that I can think off the top of my head for small enclosures. I personally have a 12" Alpine Type-R paired with an MTX Thunder801D, and have been very happy with the bass. I'm not really sure what kind of space is available in the cab of the F150, so I can't comment on that specifically.

heck, if money's no object:

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_stealthbox.php

[DarkFury]

Bazooka in my opinion is the ultimately ghetto bass machine. BOOOOOOM and nothing too tight. The design of it allows for a lot of bass (read, boom) to be ported through a tube and a 8" cone. It's small, fairly efficient, clean, and easy to install which is their main selling point. Personally I'm a big fan of sealed enclosures because I prefer tight bass which most ported enclosures can't simulate.
Why they gotta be ghetto? :hmm:

(j/k)

But seriously.. most folks in the "ghetto" don't even mess with bazookas... we'd much rather put some 10''s, 12"s, 15"s, or even 18"s in the trunk with no (or very little) highs to balance it out just so you can hear it from 6 blocks away... (unless you wanna count a set of Radio shack "Super Tweeter" horns as highs) :D The Nas-T Bird has 15"s in it.. however I do have appropriate highs/mids/midbass as well to balance it all out... so it isn't so much "ghetto boom". :D


But on the serious side... if you are thinking that 8" Bazookas are "boomy" then get the 6 1/2 inch version. They are way more controlled than the 8" version and still give you bass without going too deep and being boomy. I had a friend who had four 6 1/2 B-tubes in the back of his old 280 ZX and honestly those things would rock your socks off.

It's all about the application of the technology... and inside of a truck, space is at a premium if you don't want to lose any functionality of the seating arrangement.

(That being said... I still would recommend the MTX Thunderform over all other solutions... it's just the best application for the need without having to give up too much space to accomplish it.)

[ufcrusher]

First off, do you have a regular cab, supercab, or crewcab? From your comment about hitting the back wall, I would assume its a regular cab.

Threshers post is actually one of the behind the seat designs that I was thinking of. There are also some that mount completely hidden behind the padding. In your other thread I told you that they have thin design sub enclosures which can mount in different areas behind the seat, attach to the back wall, or under the seat.

I also mentioned installing 2 bass shakers under the seats. If memory serves Apex posted a link to Parts Express selling them a while back. They had both the regulars and pros. Since they install under your seat, you will get the bass without the intrusion on space. If you can find them, they were considered pretty good.

If you go with those g-d foresaken bazooka tubes, at least get the unamplified version and run separate amps, 1 for your speakers, 1 for your tube.

A professional installer should be able to make it so that you have a clean install, with full use of your seats track, that gives you the sound you are looking for.

[AlpineJay]

(That being said... I still would recommend the MTX Thunderform over all other solutions... it's just the best application for the need without having to give up too much space to accomplish it.)

No love for my JL link?

[thekidrocks]

Since you didn't pay attention in the last thread you started :) I will try again.... best deal going on the F150 - I have owned 5 of 'em (F150's) and this always travels from truck to truck starting from my '98. I paid, choke, $750 back then. YOU can't beat it for space and bass. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-nvyL2ePPRH0/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=236FRP20AC&search=236FRP20A

Sorry about that :gle: I started a new thread since it was a totally new topic. On the bright side - I just ordered one! $299, free shipping, 2 10" subs driven by a 200 watt class D amp a sealed box.

So much for keeping a little space behind the seat (LOL)

[DarkFury]

No love for my JL link?
Nope. ;)


Sorry about that :gle: I started a new thread since it was a totally new topic. On the bright side - I just ordered one! $299, free shipping, 2 10" subs driven by a 200 watt class D amp a sealed box.

So much for keeping a little space behind the seat (LOL)
Smart choice...

I'm sure you'll LOVE them. :thumb:

[thresher]

yay - lemme know what you think when you get it installed. Oh, and please please please break the damn things in. DO NOT GO BOOM on the first day!!! Give them a couple of hours of break in time. This is for the amp as well as the subs. It might be my old school days of tube amps (yes, I am old), but amps really like a few hours of warm up time before you really put the heat (literally) on. Then, crank those bad boys up! Have you thought about your first punishment album? I do: Rammstein - Sehnsucht. Loud. Drives the wife crazy :)

[thekidrocks]

yay - lemme know what you think when you get it installed. Oh, and please please please break the damn things in. DO NOT GO BOOM on the first day!!! Give them a couple of hours of break in time. This is for the amp as well as the subs. It might be my old school days of tube amps (yes, I am old), but amps really like a few hours of warm up time before you really put the heat (literally) on. Then, crank those bad boys up! Have you thought about your first punishment album? I do: Rammstein - Sehnsucht. Loud. Drives the wife crazy :)

LOL! Don't feel so old... I remember tube amps very, very well too!

Honestly, I was just looking for some extension for the 5x7's that I have installed in the doors and the rear corners. I truly have no intention on blasting the subwoofer into space. That deal with too good to pass up, as I don't need something like that.

Here is some irony...

A friend had his old but very clean '94 Sable over yesterday, where the factory 5x7/6x8s are rotted in the rear. I offered to give him the OEM pulls, which are far more substantial than what failed. I transfered the plugs from the old baskets to the newer ones, and would you believe they have shockingly good bass? It must be the corner loading via the rear window ledge. I mean, he tuned in one of the local rap stations and BOOOMMM, BOOOOMMMM. This was with the factory cassette system! The limiting factor was the lack of power at the Ford HU, and my junk pull CD system didn't want to work... tossed it in the garbage. Hey, for FREE he has decent toons.

Apperently in the F150, the locations are just as much an issue as anything else. The rear corner speakers are muffled (seats all the way back - which I need to do for my height), and the door ones are too far from anything to reinforce (couple) the bass.

Now let's see how many people debate the "speaker break-in" issue :gle:

[rollhard]

crutchfield is overpriced, even with their sales. I usually get my stuff from millionbuy.com You DONT have to get a external amp if you want nice power. A good head unit should provide sufficient power to your speakers, unless you want gangsta bass, etc.

[DarkFury]

crutchfield is overpriced, even with their sales. I usually get my stuff from millionbuy.com You DONT have to get a external amp if you want nice power. A good head unit should provide sufficient power to your speakers, unless you want gangsta bass, etc.
I agree with crutchfield being overpriced...

I disagree that OEM deck power is sufficient for decent sound... even most OEMs include an inline amplifier to improve the sound from the deck (at least in most "upgraded" OEM systems.)

OEM deck power SUCKS chocolate salty balls... :chef:

[thresher]

uhm, rollhard, your guys don't sell this bass enclosure. They do have a bad-ass site though. I did the graphics and the nice flow. Oh, and they sell some sweet rice cookers! :) Just kidding. I actually BOUGHT one of them for the wife, how about that?!! Nice flash on the site - drool..... http://www.millionbuy.com/webspd.html
Thresh

[thekidrocks]

I agree 100% that Crutchfield is overpriced. They have not kept up with the discount competition.

On the other hand, I bought 2 pair of Polk 5 x 7's for $29.99/pr that have overall good sound. They lack bass, however I've since discovered this is common today. The MTX 5 x 7s I bought locally were twice the price on sale ($80/pr - second pair 50% off) and they aren't worth twice the price... they might go back and th Polks go back into the truck. Yes the MTX's have better bass, but the Polks have an edge in the treble.

However on that subwoofer, at $299 it was a steal! It was listed as charcoal, but it came to me as grey - perfect match to the interior. I have it in place, but not wired yet.

Here is a link to a photo as it sets in the truck. Keep in mind that this is a regular cab, and the drivers seat is all the way back.. and also note that MTX kept the "leaner" space requirements in mind.

Subwoofer (http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subwoofer5yd.jpg)

PS - this is the sled...

F150 (http://img333.imageshack.us/img333/4241/f1503ia.jpg)

[Realrammstein]

Nice application for the sub. right behind the seat is where they put the sub in my 350ZR, as well. nice truck as well.
PS: looks like you will ne needing some new tires, soon.

[thekidrocks]

....
PS: looks like you will ne needing some new tires, soon.

Naaa - they look bad in the photo (I just had to take a look myself), yet they have nearly new tread. Must have been the angle of the camera vs. light.

I look forward to wiring that sub system shortly

[thresher]

Truck looks good Kid! I know you'll be pleased. How do you like your touneau(sp) top? I can never spell that right! :) I have considered a roll top for years, but living next to the ocean everything corrodes too fast!