My car is dead!

[LegendKiller]

Well, I got into a *minor* fender bender at 10mph and now my car is a total loss. The poor old 1989 Toyota Camry with 165k on it and no payments is finally dead.

Now, I have to consider getting a new car. I am getting a nice raise at work that should improve my monthy cashflow by 700+. I could go get a G35 coupe, but the miser in me is saying I need something cheap for now. Something around 15k.

I have never bought a new car before, how much different are the MSRP from the actual dealer prices? I am a good negotiator, but what should be my starting point? I heard Consumer Reports has good guides as to how much invoice is.

New Honda Civic...ugly
Toyota Carolla...decent
Nissan Sentra....decent

I am not considering any domestic cars at this time.


Ideas? Opinions?

[dbax791]

There are probably 2000 people on this board with more knowledge than me, but the first step is you need to totally ignore MSRPs.

Look at the dealers invoice price and work up from that. They are entitled to a $300-$1500 profit depending on the demand for the particular car. Go to autos.msn.com and search on the make/model you want.

[speedracer120]

edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com), edmunds, edmunds. They're a great starting point and will show you what other people in your area are paying. It'll also give you an invoice price. If you're really good at haggling or just waiting it out, you can get near or cheaper than invoice.

[AlpineJay]

edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com), edmunds, edmunds. They're a great starting point and will show you what other people in your area are paying. It'll also give you an invoice price. If you're really good at haggling or just waiting it out, you can get near or cheaper than invoice.

I'm with him. Don't forget that dealers get a kickback of 3% of invoice price from the manufacturer when they move the vehicle, so if you're buying a heavily discounted car where you may be able to get close to the invoice, make sure to use that as leverage.

[Grimm]

edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com), edmunds, edmunds. They're a great starting point and will show you what other people in your area are paying. It'll also give you an invoice price. If you're really good at haggling or just waiting it out, you can get near or cheaper than invoice.
:stupid: This is absolutely the best advice you will ever receive about getting a car.
I tell people to check out edmunds.com and if they don't I reserve the right to call them an idiot for the rest of their life. And after they check out the site they agree with me that if they hadn't checked it out I would have been entitled to it.

[Cubsfan]

www.carbuyingtips.com is pretty good too

[Mike_N_Ike]

Here is my advice for you LK. After you decide which car you want, go to edmunds.com and use their 'get a quote' feature to get quotes from the dealers around you. Invoice, holdback, and MSRP have little to do with what the dealer will sell you the car for. It all has to do with what the supply and demand for that car looks like. This is why getting multiple quotes helps - it will give you a good idea of what you can expect to pay for the car.

If it were me, I would take the best quote that you get, call the dealer that you've felt the most comfortable dealing with, and see if they can match it. That way you know you're getting a good price and you can choose who you buy the car from. Make sure to print out the email of the offer when you go to buy the car - to make things simple. Also, make sure that any quotes you receive include the destination charge, as well as any other accessories that they may have installed on the car. You can just deal in out-the-door amounts if you want to.

[Sirrich3]

Edmunds.com

[InfiniteNothing]

Invoice is BS. The auto industry publish those numbers to give themselves bargaining power. You need to know the wholesale price and dealer incentives. After that it's just bargaining skilz. I don't really have any recomendations for a car. I think my best advice is to test drive some of the cars. Everyone has their own priorities.

[Maarchk]

i enjoy my acrua rsx . got it for like 18 before taxes. its fun, fuel efficient and easy to maintain. but not good if you need to carry more then 2 people that are over 5-8. small people fit in back.

mark

[LegendKiller]

Considering I am 6'2", my fiance is 6', my whole family is 5' 10"+, it isn't much of an option right now. Thank though.

[Bires]

The 05 Civics are a steal now, and the deals will only get better as the 06's are rolling off the trucks (in the next few weeks).

[ufcrusher]

I dont understand why everyone is saying Edmunds exclusively. Most dealers will laugh when that site is mentioned. While it is a tool that can be used, you should also check out KBB.com (Kelly Blue Book - which is what most dealers use)

As for your size problem.....I am sure you remember the pain that I have had to go through when looking for cars....but I am 6'5" so I am a bit bigger than you.

You need to decide if you want just basic transportation, slight luxo, sporty luxo, or full out I am spending my kids inheritance to look good. While I am being slightly sarcastic with my groupings, I am sure you can understand what I am saying. A Nissan Maxima will get you from point A to point B without any trouble. An Acura TSX will get you there, with a little more umph and a touch of class. A BMW, Audi, or Infinity add a little more power, the extra luxury, and an immediate statement. Or, if you dont care about your kids inheritance, you could go balls to the wall and get a Aston Martin Vanquish.

At 6'2" you should honestly not really have a height problem in most cars. Now if you were to say that you want a MX5...then itmight be a touch tight...but an Accord should be no problem for you. You can always do the Coupe trick...which seriously helps when you are taller. Unfortunately coupes and kids dont mix. (Unless you dont care about your spine)

I would suggest making a list of what you need to have in a car, what you want in a car, and what you really could give a rats arse about. For example, you want good gas mileage, but do you want the added issues with a hybrid? If you have kids, do you want a dvd system in the back to entertain them...or do you think the license plate game was enough for you, so its good enough for them? Or would you take it if it was offered for cheap enough, but couldnt really give that much thought to it?

Once you do that, figure out if you would consider leasing or only purchasing. If you drive tons of miles, well then, leasing isnt for you. If you drive not as much and want more bang for the buck, it might be the way to go. Then again, if you figure you want to keep your car for 90 years so that you have the ground to yourself when the rest of us are floating above you stuck in traffic...well then, buying is obviously the only choice. Many of the lease negatives have been removed as the average person gets rid of their car shortly after the warranty is up so they dont get stuck with $3000 hits for a new clutch.

After that, I would say figure out your budget. Both in total purchase price and monthly amounts. Include what you can put down for it. $3k down, $300 a month for example can lease you a pretty nice car. Then again, if you want to own that number for the same car would be much bigger. You get my drift.

[Bires]

I dont understand why everyone is saying Edmunds exclusively.

You shouldn't rely upon a single site exclusively, but Edmund's True Cost to Own is very handy, and they will list any incentives and rebate that the dealer has on a model. Most people think the dealer has to tell you about incentives and rebates. They don't. If you don't get them and the manufacturer is offering them...the dealer gets them at sale. Could be a bargaining chip worth thousands.

[LPMiller]

i have never had anyone laugh at me for edmunds. not only that, they were spot on when I got my forrester.

[Mike_N_Ike]

Certain sites may be better at providing information if you are in the research phase of buying a car. However, when it comes to buying one and you want to get quotes from dealers, it really makes no difference which site you use. The only reason why I would suggest edmunds is because more dealers seem to be signed up with them.

Printing out the invoice, "true market value", holdback, incentives and anything else to take to the dealer doesn't help as much as most people think. Everybody knows what invoice is these days - it's not a big mystery anymore. The reason why those car sites help is because when you request a quote from a dealer through one of those websites (edmunds for instance) - the dealer receives the request through edmunds, which means they KNOW that you are talking to other dealers. All of a sudden, the game changes from trying to sell a car for as much money as possible, to trying to get the lowest price possible so that they can earn your business instead of having you buy from one of their crosstown competitors.

Most dealerships, will take just about the lowest offer that they would accept from a retail customer and make it the standard "internet price." It makes life much much easier for both sides. The customers are happy because they got a good price without wasting a lot of their time - and the dealer is happy because they sold another unit. Some people will still want to negotiate from that point - and if $150 and a coffee mug with your cars name on it is worth 5 hours of your time - then go right ahead.

[Eugene]

I'd say also consider the Mazda3. It's gotten nothing but good reviews across the board. Very competitive in the pricerange you're looking in - cargo space, performance, you name it. I don't know much about Mazda's reliability though. But, I've known people to get Mazda6's for close to invoice, fully loaded.

[LegendKiller]

There's a place here thats willing to sell me a Mazda 6i for 14.5k, doesn't seem that bad.

[sho.gun]

I'd say also consider the Mazda3. It's gotten nothing but good reviews across the board. Very competitive in the pricerange you're looking in - cargo space, performance, you name it.

God I love mine :)

[attgig]

hyundai elantra gt =) know about 4 people who one them and they all love it.

[ufcrusher]

BIMMER! BIMMER! BIMMER!

I cant believe no one did that yet.

Seriously though, if you want something fun to drive that can handle almost anything you can throw at it, check out a BMW. I would say go with a CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) which will bump the warranty up to 100k miles/5 years. You can probably find an old body style 3 for a relatively good price. Obviously the more powerful versions will end up costing you more, but you can probably find a used 2002/03 325 for around 20k nicely optioned. For a 330 expect to be more in the 25k region. For an M3....figure more although with our last one, the price of an M3 and the convertible we bought were the same. For an M4....see Marty McFly as you will need to travel Back to the Future.

I do believe that CPOs are a good way to save some money (depriciation already hit) still be safe under warranty and get pretty close to what you want. I know with many dealers they will have dealer cars (1 year or less of use) available as CPOs. The benefits of that is they still have 3 years on the warranty plus the extended CPO protection. The negative is that they are priced almost normal since they generally only have 10k miles or less.

[Airencracken]

BMW=High upkeep cost.

[mechmike0034]

There's a place here thats willing to sell me a Mazda 6i for 14.5k, doesn't seem that bad.

This would be my choice, FWIW... Read a lot of good things about that vehicle. I have not driven one, but the local Enterprise has a couple in the fleet. I have to rent cars for local trips occasionally, so I am going to request one next time I need to rent.

[Airencracken]

I liked the Mazda 6i I drove. It was pretty nice.

[gear02]

I recently had a case study with Ford on their new Fusion. It's actually a pretty sweet car, maybe the first American car I'd consider. I know everyone doesn't like US manufacturers due to their "poor reliability", but stats show that it's more of a perception than reality since Ford's reliability rate is not much lower than that of Toyota and Honda.

No. I don't work for Ford, but this case study made me think about doing marketing for cars. It's a lot of fun, and tons better than marketing soap or cereal...

Also what Mazda as done to their image is very impressive. The 3 and 6 are good machines. Nissan also makes some sweet cars too.

[LegendKiller]

I can get a v6 accord LX for 21, I can probably negotiate them down to 20, 17 with the down payment.

There is also a 03 G35 sedan with 26k going for 24k at a local used car lot. I might be able to get him down to 21-22, 3 down.

Now I just gotta wait for insurance to call me re: settlement. KBB lists my car as being worth 2.6k retail, 1.8k private. I am going to try and negotiate that a little bit.

I'll keep you guys updated.

[DarkFury]

I know everyone doesn't like US manufacturers due to their "poor reliability", but stats show that it's more of a perception than reality since Ford's reliability rate is not much lower than that of Toyota and Honda.
Not everyone feels this way... I personally hate Furd for a much different reason. Lack of "customer service and care". :D

And now I buy Chysler/Dodge...

[thresher]

I say (like anyone cares:)) - go out and buy yourself the best maintained, prettiest (to you) Toyota Camry you can find with the lowest miles on it. Then drive it for another, oh, 150-thousand miles. Screw all of us and our wacky ideas. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[psycho-]

I swear the Toyota Camry = 150k miles before it starts to show any signs of wear and tear.

[LegendKiller]

I swear the Toyota Camry = 150k miles before it starts to show any signs of wear and tear.


Which is the real pits about my car.

At 155 I had to have the rack and pinion and the master cylinder replaced.

160 was the calipers

162 I repainted it to get rid of rust

164 I had all fluids flushed

165 I had new tires and breaks

Now at 166 it is dead. This car has been in the family since it was bought and has a very clean and rigid maintenance record. It could easily go 200+ and with the way I drive, thats another 4 years.

However, with my job I have to drive this to country clubs, nice eating establishments...etc. It's starting to show its age and with it being bent up wouldn't make the greatest impression.

One idea that steph had was totalling it, buying it back, paying somebody ~1k to fix it. Then when I needed to go anywhere "nice" I drive her 00 Accord and she would drive my car.

I like that idea but I gotta talk to the insurance company.

[Bires]

One idea that steph had was totalling it, buying it back, paying somebody ~1k to fix it. Then when I needed to go anywhere "nice" I drive her 00 Accord and she would drive my car.

I wish I had this idea when some lamer rammed an old integra I once had. I did find out though, that many times you can't get insurance on a totaled-rebuilt car since their crumple zones are compromised.

[psycho-]

I say just buy a new camry. A new car will be much safer.

[renovation]

before you do buy a new car -check out your insurance cost on that model .sometimes the cost to insure it can be over the monthly payments :(
remember it cost more to insure a lease car then to out right buy a car . !
third thing to remember is . get one with a lot of room and feels good -you on avg. spend min 2 hours A day in that box .and it can get cramp feeling after time .if you buy a sporty car .like a Honda civic !

some years back wife got a Saturn sc2 3 door sport coupe new on a lease .
we /she loved it for the first year or two. it was fun to drive and she used it for going to work 30 miles a day .
but by the 3 year it felt cramped -no problems with the car it ran great till the day she turned it back in .
but we found it to be just to cramped and when we first got it .we were worried about going over on miles .on the lease . so we take are other car for trips .
we'll when it came to year 3 we were 15.000 miles under on the miles allowed under are lease agreement . we turn it in for a new Saturn vue that she is driving now and were buying this one . anyway they do allow a for wear and tear on a car - like maybe a stone chip the size of a grain of rice . and they can ask for copy's of all your oil changes .(had friends have this come up .more then one friend ) we'll for us we were fine in all area -under miles by 1/3 car was clean and had all service records . we got a whopper of a refund check .14 cents never did cash it :) but if your over miles some times your better off buying the car from them . catch they get you on here is sometimes the agreement wont allow you to buy it in the small print .
also they love to sell you a higher mileage agreement right from the get . but remember they will nail you x per miles over and i know of people having to come up with 5 or 6 thousand dollars .and still give the car in over mileage .

[LegendKiller]

before you do buy a new car -check out your insurance cost on that model .sometimes the cost to insure it can be over the monthly payments :(
remember it cost more to insure a lease car then to out right buy a car . !
third thing to remember is . get one with a lot of room and feels good -you on avg. spend min 2 hours A day in that box .and it can get cramp feeling after time .if you buy a sporty car .like a Honda civic !

some years back wife got a Saturn sc2 3 door sport coupe new on a lease .
we /she loved it for the first year or two. it was fun to drive and she used it for going to work 30 miles a day .
but by the 3 year it felt cramped -no problems with the car it ran great till the day she turned it back in .
but we found it to be just to cramped and when we first got it .we were worried about going over on miles .on the lease . so we take are other car for trips .
we'll when it came to year 3 we were 15.000 miles under on the miles allowed under are lease agreement . we turn it in for a new Saturn vue that she is driving now and were buying this one . anyway they do allow a for wear and tear on a car - like maybe a stone chip the size of a grain of rice . and they can ask for copy's of all your oil changes .(had friends have this come up .more then one friend ) we'll for us we were fine in all area -under miles by 1/3 car was clean and had all service records . we got a whopper of a refund check .14 cents never did cash it :) but if your over miles some times your better off buying the car from them . catch they get you on here is sometimes the agreement wont allow you to buy it in the small print .
also they love to sell you a higher mileage agreement right from the get . but remember they will nail you x per miles over and i know of people having to come up with 5 or 6 thousand dollars .and still give the car in over mileage .


Great points. At most I spend ~1hr a day in the car. Usually 40min or so to and from work. There are the three hour trips down to SoFla to visit family, but thats once a month.

Leasing does somewhat appeal to me but I don't think it works completely.

The insurance thing does worry me a bit. I lost my accident-free policy now, although I am over 25 (but still male last time I checked) and soon to be married. No points on the record though.

I am still tossing around what to do. I will know when the total adjuster dude from the insurance company calls.


Thanks everybody!!

[mechmike0034]

Now I just gotta wait for insurance to call me re: settlement. KBB lists my car as being worth 2.6k retail, 1.8k private. I am going to try and negotiate that a little bit.

I'll keep you guys updated.

I had a similar circumstance recently. Got hit from behind while stopped at a stoplight, totally the other driver's fault. They had State Farm, who totalled the car and paid me full boat NADA retail for it. They paid my medical (got my neck checked after the impact almost put me in the back seat), and net for the one day of work that I missed, plus around $400 for "suffering".


I wish I had this idea when some lamer rammed an old integra I once had. I did find out though, that many times you can't get insurance on a totaled-rebuilt car since their crumple zones are compromised.

It is tough to get insurance on rebuilts. Also, if you fix a rebuilder (in most cases) you'll pay cash because lenders don't like to finance them, either.

[rasetsu]

Carsdirect.com. Build your car, print out the price sheet, bring to the dealer and you're done.

[pd123]

Our 1987 Camry was totaled last year, the insurance company gave me an appropriate settlement plus a car rental for a month. They also let us keep the wreck so we could donate it. Try to get the insurance company to give a rental car and if they let you keep the wreck, I bet that would put another $500 in you pocket after tax write-off.

[bachviet]

But Prius performance sucks ball and it's not sufficient for a family with 2 kids/car seats/strollers.