NSS but SS: 27% raise

[LegendKiller]

After two years of hard work I finally got my huge project done, resulting in 6.5mm in financing savings + tens of millions more for the next decades. I also pass level II of the CFA. As a result they gave my abysmally low salary a 27% raise + 3.5 more on the 1st of next year.

It has taken them 2 months to go through the process and it is about 10% lower than it should be. I tried bargaining and even mentioning that a few head hunters have tried hard to snag me for salaries that would be 50% more, but my salary still isn't where it should be for my experience, knowledge, and education.

I turned them down because my current boss is *very* good, tons of knowledge, very good to me, and it was horrible timing (I would have sacrificed a lot of my professional ethics and credibility). The people I work with are some of the best in the industry and area. The contacts I make will pay off in the future. But it just isn't enough.

As a result I am starting to look elsewhere.

It kinda feels like I am being impetulent but at the same time I need to start thinking about my future family and how much I am short changing myself by staying this low.

It's frustrating being captured by the corp bureaucracy and the HR stupidity.

[InfiniteNothing]

Just think, if you had this happen every year you'll double your wages every 3 years.

[Jeffbx]

It's VERY hard to leave a company, especially when you're well established there & comfortable with the people you're working with. However, you have to look to your future - rising up through the ranks in a company takes a LONG time. You really need to switch jobs now & then in order to take a big step up.

I've been in the same situation before - great company, great people that I was working with, but I was stuck doing the same thing, day after day after day - it could literally be years before my next promotion. I got fed up and after some interviewing, went someplace else for a 40% increase. It was a big step - I had been with my previous company for almost 8 years, and it was hard to imagine myself moving. Best move I ever made.

It's a hard first step, but it'll be better in the long run.

[Grimm]

Looks like it is time to move on. It happens. When they look at you they don't see who you have grown to become, they just see the person who started there.
Well, they can't claim to be surprised when you leave, you let them know you were unhappy with your compensation.

[mcs328]

I need to make the same step. 6 years still and I'm underpaid by at least 20%. Once my life gets more stable I can actively look around and jump ship. Your raise is much better than my pansy 2-7% raises.

[faither]

Feel bad for me I only got a 27% increase...Oh yeah, I get an additional 3.5% in 10 weeks...boo hoo hoo
Sorry to make light of your plight but it's probably difficult for most folks to sympathize or empathize with someone who's received such a bounty.

It sounds like you're a bright guy who doesn't have trouble paying his bills, and these days that means your pretty well off. If you're not happy with your comp, leave. It sounds, though, that the intangibles related to your employment are also pretty good (boss and the ability to learn, etc.) and that also has to be factored into the equation.

It's not all about the benjamins...but if it is for you, you should do something about it.

[ialsohaveadream]

It's VERY hard to leave a company, especially when you're well established there & comfortable with the people you're working with. However, you have to look to your future - rising up through the ranks in a company takes a LONG time. You really need to switch jobs now & then in order to take a big step up.

I've been in the same situation before - great company, great people that I was working with, but I was stuck doing the same thing, day after day after day - it could literally be years before my next promotion. I got fed up and after some interviewing, went someplace else for a 40% increase. It was a big step - I had been with my previous company for almost 8 years, and it was hard to imagine myself moving. Best move I ever made.

It's a hard first step, but it'll be better in the long run.
Conversely, I started looking for other jobs two years ago, and let my boss (who is, like LK's, a great boss) know that I was doing so because I needed more money. I set up my first interview, and before I even went to interview, I was offered a promotion and a 35% raise.

This time I told my boss I'll be looking to leave around the end of the year, but it's for reasons totally unrelated to money (I just really want to leave the area)...so hopefully there won't be any promotions to tempt me to stay. :)

[attgig]

i'm at a similar spot (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92437). good company, good spot. but overworked. over tasked. under paid/titled compared to my other counterparts in my company.

just because of where i'm at, i need to suck it up for another 9 months or so. but meanwhile, thinking about approaching my boss about a possible raise/promotion...NOW instead of waiting till our annual promotion cycle which happens in march.

but once i hit my 5 years, thinking it's time to move on, and find a job less demanding (read: 40 hour govt contracting).

[smeakim]

Sorry to make light of your plight but it's probably difficult for most folks to sympathize or empathize with someone who's received such a bounty.

It sounds like you're a bright guy who doesn't have trouble paying his bills, and these days that means your pretty well off. If you're not happy with your comp, leave. It sounds, though, that the intangibles related to your employment are also pretty good (boss and the ability to learn, etc.) and that also has to be factored into the equation.

It's not all about the benjamins...but if it is for you, you should do something about it.

My god 27% and in another case 35%. The last raise I got was in 2001. I have worked for two companies and neither gave raises and those who did the max was 3.9%. I am tired of changing jobs to make only peanuts more. Only got 27% and someone else saying only got 35%. Find another job and quit whining becuase most people are barley getting 3% if that.

[Cubsfan]

My god 27% and in another case 35%. The last raise I got was in 2001. I have worked for two companies and neither gave raises and those who did the max was 3.9%. I am tired of changing jobs to make only peanuts more. Only got 27% and someone else saying only got 35%. Find another job and quit whining becuase most people are barley getting 3% if that.

Percents are kind of a bad way to guage if someone's complaining too much. If the average for your job is $100k, and you're currently making $50k, then a 35% raise still means you are way underpaid. now if you already make $100k, sure, then complaining about 35% might be unjustified.

[LegendKiller]

Percents are kind of a bad way to guage if someone's complaining too much. If the average for your job is $100k, and you're currently making $50k, then a 35% raise still means you are way underpaid. now if you already make $100k, sure, then complaining about 35% might be unjustified.


It depends, in my case I passed two levels of the cfa, each averages a 20% raise per level according to the salary survey. I got 5% last year. I also have a lot of education, a ton of knowledge. I have far exceeded anybody's expectations AND I have worked my arse off to push through two projects that will save the company tens of millions with little guidence and external work. My contemporaries at i-banks are making more with less effort and less education.

It's hard to see my experience catch up with my education and earning the CFA designation while, in relative terms, my salary is stagnant.

[Cubsfan]

It depends, in my case I passed two levels of the cfa, each averages a 20% raise per level according to the salary survey. I got 5% last year. I also have a lot of education, a ton of knowledge. I have far exceeded anybody's expectations AND I have worked my arse off to push through two projects that will save the company tens of millions with little guidence and external work. My contemporaries at i-banks are making more with less effort and less education.

It's hard to see my experience catch up with my education and earning the CFA designation while, in relative terms, my salary is stagnant.

Yep, so I'd say that you're quite justified in what you're thinking (although you better hope your boss doesn't know you post on here! :D )

[ialsohaveadream]

Yep, so I'd say that you're quite justified in what you're thinking (although you better hope your boss doesn't know you post on here! :D )
Nah, a good boss always wants the best for his employees, even if it means having those employees move on to new jobs.

[smeakim]

Its really pretty simple. You stay there quite whining and take what they give you or move on. Its in your power to choose. I have quite a few friends that moan and complain everyday, but when I offer to bring them over to my new company they all say no. If its all about the money post the resume. If there are more things keeping you there then weigh them. However, in the end you stay or go but its your choice. No company these days is going to watch out for you. You have to do that. Don't think, they wont when it comes down to it, fire you, they can. You need to watchout for yourself and your family first and foremost. Anyone who thinks different needs to take off the rosy clored glasses and see the real world.

[Grimm]

Its really pretty simple. You stay there quite whining and take what they give you or move on. Its in your power to choose. I have quite a few friends that moan and complain everyday, but when I offer to bring them over to my new company they all say no. If its all about the money post the resume. If there are more things keeping you there then weigh them. However, in the end you stay or go but its your choice. No company these days is going to watch out for you. You have to do that. Don't think, they wont when it comes down to it, fire you, they can. You need to watchout for yourself and your family first and foremost. Anyone who thinks different needs to take off the rosy clored glasses and see the real world.
No really???:rolleyes: That's what he is doing.

[ialsohaveadream]

No really???:rolleyes: That's what he is doing.
Yeah, how is that any different from what LK is doing?

[smeakim]

Maybe I am just unsympathetic to people who complain about a 27% raise not matter if they 100K or 20K not that 20K is what we are talking about. IMO the point should have been I have passed X and I am underpaid for my position, not I only got 27%. Yes I reread and LK is starting to look, but aslo LK says staying might be beneficial as well. When someone takes a position for a low salary for whatever reason thats what they signed on for, its only their fault for not asking more. Now if 20% is a rasie for passing Level I CFA and LK got 27% then whats the issue? Is LK below what others make yes, but LK signed on for the lower salary to begin with. I only wish I worked somewhere where I could get 10% let alone 27%.

[ialsohaveadream]

Among other things, LK was probably hired when the economy wasn't as strong, and obviously his education and experience weren't as strong then. However, he's now got much more education, and he says he's saving the company millions. If he can see how much money he's saving them, and they aren't going to throw him a bone and pay him something equivalent to what he'd make at another company, I can see why he's upset.

[dsuds]

Man, I wish I could get a 27% raise. All I've gotten in 8 years is COLA raises (or their equivalent). Nothing more than 5%. Put in perspective, even a mimimum wage job with a 27% increase would be much bigger than my "annual raises".

LK, 27% sounds pretty good to me, but if you are that far underpaid then maybe you should be looking elsewhere. Good luck either way.

[LegendKiller]

Maybe I am just unsympathetic to people who complain about a 27% raise not matter if they 100K or 20K not that 20K is what we are talking about. IMO the point should have been I have passed X and I am underpaid for my position, not I only got 27%. Yes I reread and LK is starting to look, but aslo LK says staying might be beneficial as well. When someone takes a position for a low salary for whatever reason thats what they signed on for, its only their fault for not asking more. Now if 20% is a rasie for passing Level I CFA and LK got 27% then whats the issue? Is LK below what others make yes, but LK signed on for the lower salary to begin with. I only wish I worked somewhere where I could get 10% let alone 27%.


If I should be paid 50% more and I only got 27%, there is a huge difference. The thing is, I do like it here and I get a lot of benefits. However, short changing myself isn't going to work in the long run. It really sucks that this place just doesn't understand that I could be making MUCH more somewhere else but I like it here.

As it stands, I am about a year out from being able to leave. I need to earn my charter, get the three years of experience here, and then leave.

I know that some of this is my fault, I took the lower salary to actually be able to get a job, I was unemployed for 6 months out of grad school, I needed something. Then, throughout a year and a half I don't produce much beyond what I am supposed to and a bit more. In the last six months I have produced two huge projects that will benefit the company for a long time, now they need to pony up but won't.

Yeah, 27% seems like a lot (and it is) but it isn't as much as I deserve. However, I will stay until next year.

[LegendKiller]

Man, I wish I could get a 27% raise. All I've gotten in 8 years is COLA raises (or their equivalent). Nothing more than 5%. Put in perspective, even a mimimum wage job with a 27% increase would be much bigger than my "annual raises".

LK, 27% sounds pretty good to me, but if you are that far underpaid then maybe you should be looking elsewhere. Good luck either way.

I certainly agree that it is a lot. But my contributions are huge compared to my compensation. It will change or I will leave (which is more likely). As I said above, it's sad because I love my boss. We are more best friends then boss-subordinate. I completely respect him and every other person I report to or work with. I work in a department of three people (including me) that raises more than 1.2 billion in cashflow every year for our company and I have complete freedom in my schedule, work habits, and choice of projects.

The people I work with are some of the best in our area of corporate finance and investments at a fortune 100 company. This is *the* ideal job except the pay completely sucks.

I'll miss it here, but certainly not the paycheck. I am also certain that wherever I land won't be nearly as enjoyable. However, I know that is what I wll give up to make more.

[smeakim]

Unfortunately, thats the way the economy works. Those coming into new jobs out of school will make more than a person who has been performing in the job for years. In the last place I worked, I came in making almost double what somone who has been in the same position for 10 years was making. Companies only care about their bottom line, and unless when you leave they cease to function they could care a less. Two places I have worked for and left, I have been one of the higest producers. They came to me when they had a problem. When I said I was leaving only for a 7% increase in pay they said bye no counter, no nothing. The last company I completed a project to save the company over 300,000 a year nothing compared to what LK has done but quite considerable. All companies want these days is for you to produce and keep your mouth shut. When the economy picks back up and becomes an employee's market you will see things start to change but right now its still the employer's market. JMHO

[dsuds]

Are there any good prospects of moving up within the company? Or, are any other big projects on the horizon (with the possibility of another large raise)? Either of these could get you the best of both worlds - working at the "ideal job" and being fairly compensated. Since you say you'll be sticking around for probably the next year, I would look seriously at those posibilities.

I've found that there are not that many great companies to work for, and even fewer great bosses. Without either of these, no amount of compensation will seem fair as the job just isn't fun. I've "been there, done that" and can honestly say that for me, I'd rather be underpaid and happy.

[LegendKiller]

Are there any good prospects of moving up within the company? Or, are any other big projects on the horizon (with the possibility of another large raise)? Either of these could get you the best of both worlds - working at the "ideal job" and being fairly compensated. Since you say you'll be sticking around for probably the next year, I would look seriously at those posibilities.

I've found that there are not that many great companies to work for, and even fewer great bosses. Without either of these, no amount of compensation will seem fair as the job just isn't fun. I've "been there, done that" and can honestly say that for me, I'd rather be underpaid and happy.


There are 2-3 more projects for me to do before I consider myself done with this place. I am learning the legal and negotiation side of what we do. I know almost every other part pretty well.

I know my boss wanted to give me more but HR squeezed it. Once I pass level III and we hire a new analyst, I will probably be promoted to manager, which isn't bad for only 3 years on the job. However, even with another 27% raise, I'd still be pretty underpaid.

I am going to hunt in another year. I have had 6 prospects so far, one I would have taken had we not been in the middle of a deal. That one was going to pay me 70% more than what I was making.

Sure, I could have gone for a ton more money but I would have sacrificed my personal ethics, professional reputation, and I would have screwed my company in the middle of the biggest deal our market has seen.

The time will come but it's just damn annoying that the HR weenies can't see that they will lose a good person. I have seen it before.

[smeakim]

Companies want you to feel bad for leaving that is what sucks. My motto is first me then thee. May seem bad to some, but I don't work becuase I want to, I work becuase I have to pay the bills and support a family. I would have left for the 70% raise and say to them either you pay what others are making or I leave now. You shouldn't feel bad becuase the only person that is going to take care of you, is you. Its just business and thats what it comes down to. Well it looks like you are staying so good luck with what you choose.

[LegendKiller]

Companies want you to feel bad for leaving that is what sucks. My motto is first me then thee. May seem bad to some, but I don't work becuase I want to, I work becuase I have to pay the bills and support a family. I would have left for the 70% raise and say to them either you pay what others are making or I leave now. You shouldn't feel bad becuase the only person that is going to take care of you, is you. Its just business and thats what it comes down to. Well it looks like you are staying so good luck with what you choose.


Well, the problem with my situation is that I am the only person in the department that knows how to get data, and our department lives and dies by data. I am the only person who controls the data that saved us 6.5mm. Sure, others can come in and attempt to piece together the working parts of our department, but that takes time. In the meantime we have a 500 million dollar deal in the market, all needed data for that deal comes from me. I interface with ibankers, rating agencies, lawyers, and insurance providers to give them everything. If I left, the deal would be delayed for a minimum of two months.

It just wasn't possible for me to leave if I wanted to retain any respect that I have in the marketplace. Many of the people I would have dealt with in the new job would know me from this one. You live and die by reputation in this small niche of investments. 70% is nice, but how much would I have given up in the future?