drug sniffing dogs in schools: needed or unnecessary invasion of privacy?

[nickel]

LOS ANGELES — La Jolla High School in California has made a new hire, and he won't be teaching science or math. Taser, a golden retriever, will make surprise visits to campus searching for illegal drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.

Without a bite or bark, Taser will scan lockers and backpacks, never touching students. The service is one high school principal Dana Shelburne says is long overdue.

"We find students in possession, we find students under the influence. Last year, we had a few young ladies who were using cocaine as a weight loss device," Shelburne said.

Despite opposition from civil libertarians, the notion of drug-sniffing dogs in schools is gaining popularity. More than 1,200 school districts throughout the nation are now on board.

"I think there's an awareness as an acceptance of K-9 dogs as something that is not invasive, that if a student is not doing anything that's incorrect or unlawful the dog really has nothing to do but wag a tail and be scratched on the head," Shelburne said.

Law enforcement and school administrators are pushing the concept. Drug dogs get mixed reviews from the people they are supposed to protect.

"My parents are very opposed to the drug dog. My dad thinks that it is an invasion of privacy and he's just very against it and kind of outraged that they would presume to search our private property like that," said student Julia Burton.

"The school has the power to search the rooms, not our personal beings. Like, he can't come up to me and start sniffing me, but he can sniff the stuff out of the room so that's totally fine," said student Fahrzin Hemmati.

Administrators and parents who support the program consider it a success if it keeps one teen from doing drugs.

"What we're doing has been tested in courts of law. I think philosophically, I could argue it fairly enough without the courts that this is not an infringement upon any individual right," said

Others, however, argue that the thousands of dollars being spent could go to further academic programs during an era of tight budgets and the struggle to find funds.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,173955,00.html

[Kim]

I don't have a problem with it. If my kids were using, I'd want to know so I could get them help.

[MikeD]

Needed, and a good idea to boot.

On school property, getting an education...you should have no need to maintain "privacy".

[smeakim]

Sounds like a great plan to me. Kids in grade school, junior high, or high school personally I think have no right to privacy. I think they should be able to search their lockers, bags, and anything else the kid brings to school. If you have something you shouldn't, you should get punished, and if it were my kid I would be gald to know about it.

[mcs328]

I'm for it along with metal detectors. I consider drug sniffing dogs and metal detectors passive venues to keep the school safe and crime free. They aren't actively rummaging through lockers and your bookbags which is potentially humiliating if you're innocent and it doesn't take up as much time from the students.

[Mommypooh]

I am all for it.

[bachviet]

I'm for it too along with metal detectors.

[jstreet]

I'm for it along with metal detectors. I consider drug sniffing dogs and metal detectors passive venues to keep the school safe and crime free. They aren't actively rummaging through lockers and your bookbags which is potentially humiliating if you're innocent and it doesn't take up as much time from the students.Yeah, if it's passive and not active, I'd be fine with it.

I think active searches are only permissible in places like airports, where one doesn't HAVE to board the plane (as opposed to schools where you do).

[guiseppewv]

I'm for it too along with metal detectors.

:stupid:

[Grubbie]

I remember when I was in highschool they actually have a undercover cop work on a drug bust for 2-3months. They ended up one day doing a lockdown during class and had the cops come in with the drug sniffing dog to bust everybody with drugs on campus. They also busted all the kids that were told not to leave class and went out to their cars(giving the cops the oppertunity to search their cars).

It was a interesting day at school to say the least, a lot of people got busted for it.

[Grimm]

This is excelent! We can train kids now to accept infringements on their privacy so that later, when they are adults they accept it without question. Brilliant!!!

[esme]

this was never done @ my h.s. but if it would've .....there would have been so many kids on suspension ......

:shrug: ......i would've been ok w/it though

[MikeD]

This is excelent! We can train kids now to accept infringements on their privacy so that later, when they are adults they accept it without question. Brilliant!!!

:cry:

Going a bit too far, aren't we? It's a public school, i.e. government property, and they're trying to eliminate a drug problem so as to better the learning environment.

Wouldn't want our sacred privacy to be infringed on though, now would we?

[mcs328]

We had something called "Operation Gotcha" which just rounded up students who skipped class. All the classroom doors were locked and stragglers were left rounded up and given a note to give to their parents that they skipped class.

[esme]

stragglers were left rounded up and given a note to give to their parents that they skipped class.


yeah ....like it ever made it to them!!

[speedracer120]

Quite honestly drugs have no place on school grounds. In HB we had dogs sniff our lockers all the time. They didn't search the lockers unless there were hits by the dogs.

I actually appreciated it, as opposed to my previous HS up in the Bay Area where cops ignored the students smoking pot and other harder ish right off school grounds on a busy intersection.

[Grimm]

:cry:

Going a bit too far, aren't we? It's a public school, i.e. government property, and they're trying to eliminate a drug problem so as to better the learning environment.

Wouldn't want our sacred privacy to be infringed on though, now would we?
People always look at the benifit, but never consider the cost. :(

[zenbooty]

This is excelent! We can train kids now to accept infringements on their privacy so that later, when they are adults they accept it without question. Brilliant!!!:stupid: exactly what I was thinking. Look at all the responses here wholeheartedly agreeing with the conditioning of our children!

[psycho-]

Being LJHS, I'm sure one or more of the kids' parents will bail them out with $$$ when they get caught. Do the dogs have the right to search the kids' BMWs, MBs, and Ferraris?

[Grafalgar]

I fail to see where invasion of privacy comes into play? The cop walking the dog around sniffing people has no idea what's in their bags/purses/cases/whatever unless they're carrying drugs. Their privacy is not invaded. Everything they wanted to keep private is still private. How is this any different from metal detectors? Now if they forced everyone to open their bags to be physically searched, THAT is a whole new deal. *shrugs*

I think it's a good idea, plus if you've got nothing to hide you get to hang out with a cool dog! :)

[smeakim]

Grimm I expected nothing less from you. :winkie: I still think that any child on school property should give up any right they have in order to make school a safer place. Personally put in lockers, one for every student, and make them sign a waver at the beginning of the year saying the school has the right to search at any time. Disallow backpack to be used during school hours. Put in the metal detectors. Also make students sign a waver that any car parked in the school lots can be searched for any reason at any time. If you break the rules, there is no reason to let someone hide. Don't break the rules. Schools are not there to catch kids doing things wrong. I think they would rather spend their time doing other things. JMHO

[InfiniteNothing]

Waste of tax money if you ask me.

[Grimm]

I would rather that the schools stuck to teaching kids and left law enforcement to the professionals. If you catch a kid with drugs, expell them. If there is a drug problem, have the police do a sweep and expell the kids they catch. Schools are for learning. If they aren't there to learn, they don't need to be there. Somebody's got to dig the ditches.

[guiseppewv]

:cry:

Going a bit too far, aren't we? It's a public school, i.e. government property, and they're trying to eliminate a drug problem so as to better the learning environment.

Wouldn't want our sacred privacy to be infringed on though, now would we?

:stupid:


I would rather that the schools stuck to teaching kids and left law enforcement to the professionals. If you catch a kid with drugs, expell them. If there is a drug problem, have the police do a sweep and expell the kids they catch. Schools are for learning. If they aren't there to learn, they don't need to be there. Somebody's got to dig the ditches.

I think the schools are teaching the kids (although they need to do a much better job which is a whole different topic) but part of how successful they are depends on the environment that the teaching is taking place. A drug free and weapons free environment is a better environment to learn in.

[MikeD]

Look at all the responses here wholeheartedly agreeing with the conditioning of our children!

Oh the horrors of it all...

I'm simply amazed by the fact that maintaining personal privacy, which on school property is a sketchy idea at best, is more important than improving the educational environment.

:eek2:

[zenbooty]

Oh the horrors of it all... Thanks for the dismissive attitude. And people say I have a history of rude outbursts. Its no wonder :rolleyes:

Anyway, kids go to school to learn. Do you want your kids learning that they should submit to searches and unnecessary questioning whenever authority chooses? If so, they're going to take those lessons into adulthood, just like kids take all their learning into adulthood.


I'm simply amazed by the fact that maintaining personal privacy, which on school property is a sketchy idea at best, is more important than improving the educational environment. :eek2:How do drug sniffing dogs improve the learning environment? Seems like a big distraction if you ask me. Obviously we are weighing the consequences of more privacy versus more control of the learning environment against each other here. Kids have been learning without the aid of drug sniffing dogs for some time now, and I fail to see how big a benefit this is going to be to them.

[guiseppewv]

I fail to see how big a benefit this is going to be to them.

I guess you didn't read my post above. A safer environment is a a better environment to learn in.

[MikeD]

How do drug sniffing dogs improve the learning environment? Seems like a big distraction if you ask me. Obviously we are weighing the consequences of more privacy versus more control of the learning environment against each other here. Kids have been learning without the aid of drug sniffing dogs for some time now, and I fail to see how big a benefit this is going to be to them.

Didn't read mine either, apparently.

They improve the environment by removing drugs, as well as users/sellers. Get caught with drugs, get thrown out. Pretty simple.

Less users/sellers in the school, classrooms, etc., sounds like a pretty positive thing to me. Less peer pressure to try drugs. Less distractions from the individuals themselves, who I doubt highly are the cream-of-the-crop students.

Do you have children? If so, are they school age? If you do, and you feel the way you feel...well, IMO it's pretty sad that you feel that way.


Thanks for the dismissive attitude. And people say I have a history of rude outbursts. Its no wonder

Learned from the best, right here on these boards! :thumbup:

[mcs328]

I like to go to a school where I'm not offered drugs at the end of the hallway, the next bully just uses his fists instead of a gun or knife to take my reduced-lunch ticket, the hyper guy next to me is on a sugar high and not a PCP high and my right to get to class and learn is not hampered or determined if I will make it to the door with no physical harm or verbal abuse filled which *****y squinty eye racism.

I'm arguing for the right of a potential safe learning environment. The counter-arguement seems that this policy will cultivate a generation of adults who don't question authority which I do see validity in the point of view. I think the more likely impact are students will feel safer and get an education and still be educated enough to say or decide when invasion of privacy crosses the limit that's social reasonable in their adult lives.

[ialsohaveadream]

Eh, I could go either way on this one. Most of the kids I used to work with would just skip school if they wanted to do drugs, though. I don't remember any of them ever mentioning having drugs actually AT school.

[Houdini]

:stupid: exactly what I was thinking. Look at all the responses here wholeheartedly agreeing with the conditioning of our children!

Conditioning of children? Since when do children in school have such extreme rights to privacy? A drug-sniffing dog sounds pretty good to me. It's not like they're stripping the kids down to their skivvies or frisking them. If anything, this measure may help address a 15 year old's drug problem early. It may also cut down on, er...transactions going on in schools that have made the news recently. Plus, the threat of a dog's sniffing may make the kids think twice about using, starting to use, buying with intent to use or distribute, etc. At any rate, there's no place in school for MJ, cocaine, tobacco, or any other substance of the sort.

I seriously doubt this is part of some vast conspiracy to indoctrinate kids to get used to having rights yanked from them as adults. It's a safety/security/health/learning issue, and a non-invasive one at that. Drug dogs search air cargo, even items from Americans returning from overseas. Different reasons, sure, but same degree of "privacy violation."

[jstreet]

Drug dogs search air cargo, even items from Americans returning from overseas. Different reasons, sure, but same degree of "privacy violation."As I'd pointed out above, it's not really the same since no one is forcing you to get on an airplane. But kids are forced to go to school. I do agree, though, that passive searches that aren't targeted or otherwise traumatic for students are OK. The thing that people need to realize is no matter what they do, it'll only be a deterrant and never a solution to the problem. I just don't want to see us go down the road that gets to "Well the dogs aren't working, maybe if we strip search them that'll work". Kids will still get drugs and now you're strip searching them.

[Bires]

Uhm...

This kinda thing isn't new. Every school I've taught at/visitted has had drug dogs come through. Usually on a secret rotation schedule with other schools.

[Bires]

Kids will still get drugs and now you're strip searching them.

So...this would be a worst-case scenario?

Honestly, do you really believe it will end in strip searchs of 14-year-olds? :umm:

[ialsohaveadream]

So...this would be a worst-case scenario?

Honestly, do you really believe it will end in strip searchs of 14-year-olds? :umm:
Must...resist....priest joke.....

[GraingerGuy]

Originally Posted by Grimm
This is excelent! We can train kids now to accept infringements on their privacy so that later, when they are adults they accept it without question. Brilliant!!!



Originally Posted by Grimm
I would rather that the schools stuck to teaching kids and left law enforcement to the professionals. If you catch a kid with drugs, expell them. If there is a drug problem, have the police do a sweep and expell the kids they catch. Schools are for learning. If they aren't there to learn, they don't need to be there. Somebody's got to dig the ditches.

So we should just let the drugs run rampant in the schools! Brilliant!

Unfortunately, school isn't where you just learn your book smarts. It's where you start to shape where you stance on subjects of morality and whatnot. If students see that there are drugs abounding...and the adults do absolutely nothing about it...yeah...what does that teach them? Like it or not, teachers don't just teach the textbook...we also teach (either purposely or not) how we think that human beings should act.

[Houdini]

As I'd pointed out above, it's not really the same since no one is forcing you to get on an airplane. But kids are forced to go to school. I do agree, though, that passive searches that aren't targeted or otherwise traumatic for students are OK. The thing that people need to realize is no matter what they do, it'll only be a deterrant and never a solution to the problem. I just don't want to see us go down the road that gets to "Well the dogs aren't working, maybe if we strip search them that'll work". Kids will still get drugs and now you're strip searching them.

Naah....I don't think that will ever become the case. That's one helluva slippery slope argument, and argument that I've used from time to time myself, but it has its inherent weaknesses as a fallacy.