Purchasing a firearm (pistol)

[Agent Plissken]

I am in the market to purchase my first pistol for target shooting and home defense. I am looking at a Glock 22 and HK USP .40 (much more expensive than the glock)

Are there any gun owners here? Are there any places to get good deals on guns?

What gun would your recommend to a first timer (out of any, not just those 2)?

[WhiskeyPapa]

I'm a gun owner!

The best firearm for home defense is a shotgun. You don't even have to aim it. Plus, they're really cheap. You can get a single shot for less than $100.

If you really want a handgun for home defense, a revolver is best. They never jam and are easy to fire. A revolver will work just as well after sitting untouched for a decade. A semi-auto needs periodic cleaning and lubrication, even when unused. If I were to buy a revolver just for home defense (to keep locked in a gun case in the bedroom, for example) I'd buy a S&W Airweight.

For target shooting and general recreational shooting, I like a semi-auto, simply because you can shoot more ammo faster.

Go to a gun shop that has lots of guns and get your hands on all of them. I'd suggest not spending too much on your first gun, because once you get one, you learn fast what you *really* wanted. So buy used if possible.

[Leon]

The laws in CA are so complex these days, I just end up ordering from a local store. Unless your local stores are a bunch more expensive than ordering online, then try to find a nice shop nearby.

If you are looking for a home defense pistol, you might also want to consider a .45 ACP weapon. I think the basic rule of a home defense gun is to "get the most powerful one you can handle." If your wife is petite and she will also be trained in it, then you obviously can't be buying a .50 Desert Eagle. The best way to find out is to go out to a shooting range and rent 9mm, .40, .45, .357, .44. etc.

As for good first guns, your two choices are excellent. Glocks and the HK USP series are very reliable and low maintenance. Here would be my choices:

- Glock (they all look and function pretty much the same from model to model)
- Heckler and Koch USP
- Sig Sauer P series (the action is smooth as silk, it they are one of the easiest pistols to field strip)
- Revolver - Colt/Smith&Wesson (reliable and easy to use)

Some diehard enthusiasts might tell you to get an older style pistol like a Colt 1911 or a Browning Hi-Power. I would say, if you are new at this and this will be your only gun for a while, go with a more modern design. The polymer frames are more reliable and less prone to corrosion. They are also ready to go right out of the box.

Also, if you're considering an HK, look into the new P2000s too. Good luck.

[Leon]

I'm a gun owner!

The best firearm for home defense is a shotgun. You don't even have to aim it. Plus, they're really cheap. You can get a single shot for less than $100.


I agree with WhiskeyPapa here. The best home defense weapon is a shotgun. You get ridiculous stopping power, it's hard to miss, and it's intimidating as hell. You know in the movies when they pump a shotgun? Yeah, it sounds like that, but it's much louder and scarier in person.

This is my home defense weapon of choice:

http://jph.durand.free.fr/armes/carabines/benellinovapump.jpeg

The good thing about shotguns is that the pellets lose energy fast. The risk of a stray round missing and hitting your neighbor is a lot lower than if you are using a handgun.

[IrishSS]

The best way to find out is to go out to a shooting range and rent 9mm, .40, .45, .357, .44. etc.

As for good first guns, your two choices are excellent. Glocks and the HK USP series are very reliable and low maintenance.


Couldn't agree more with Leon... Shoot first, then decide what you want. Obviously the lower caliber rounds are easier to shoot, but have less stopping power. I personally have a Walther P99 .40 and love it to death. For soem reason the P99 feels a lot better in my hand than the Glock, but its a personal preference.

I have shot both the HK and the Glock. The HK is a very nice weapon yet terribly expensive for what you want it for. The Glock is always a good choice, as it is easy to maintain and operate. The Walther will run you about $600 new if I remember right... I paid $450 for mine used, which is about what you can get a new Glock for if you look around.

[Agent Plissken]

:love:
WoW you guys are quick!
Thanks for the input... im processing it now. Oh I almost forgot, 1 other gun I was considering (for target shooting only) was the Ruger MrkIII Hunter (stainless steel w/ fluted barrel) (.22 cal)
Any feedback on this one?

I appreciate your comments on the shotgun, and I will get one when I own a home, but I am just renting an apartment right now and it seems a bit like overkill.

AS FOR USED GUNS...
1. Is there any chance of there being damage to them that I couldnt recognize right away?
2. How much cheaper (in good/ like new condition) should I expect to pay for the used one than the new one?
3. Is the best place to get these at pawn shops?

[Leon]

:love:
WoW you guys are quick!
Thanks for the input... im processing it now. Oh I almost forgot, 1 other gun I was considering (for target shooting only) was the Ruger MrkIII Hunter (stainless steel w/ fluted barrel) (.22 cal)
Any feedback on this one?

The Ruger MkII's are pretty much a classic. They're great pistols. It's a great idea to have a .22 practice gun since you won't pick up on bad habits early on. If the MkIII's are anything like the MkII's then they will serve you well. However, they are a major pain in the butt to clean and since they use rimfire ammo, you will need to clean them often.


I appreciate your comments on the shotgun, and I will get one when I own a home, but I am just renting an apartment right now and it seems a bit like overkill.

I understand what you mean about it being overkill, but a shotgun would make the most sense in that situation. If you miss with a pistol, it will probably go through 4-6 walls before it stops. If you really don't want to get a shotgun, then consider buying safety slugs. The will break apart on impact and (hopefully) not go into your neighbor's unit.


AS FOR USED GUNS...
1. Is there any chance of there being damage to them that I couldnt recognize right away?
2. How much cheaper (in good/ like new condition) should I expect to pay for the used one than the new one?
3. Is the best place to get these at pawn shops?

1. For a pistol, it's a lot harder to tell. Revolvers you can more easily tell if the frame is damaged.

2. The other two gentlemen will have to tell you about this one. All mine were new.

3. I would personally go to a gun shop. The shop will usually inspect them first before buying them, so that's an extra layer of protection for you. If you get something at a pawn shot, get a revolver.

[IrishSS]

I use gunbroker.com... it's basically an Ebay for guns. I bought my Walther off there and couldn't be happier with the transaction.

As for the .22, most little caliber guns like that are great for going out, spending $5 to shoot all day and not being broke at the end of the day.

I take my .223 M4 or the .40 Walther out to shoot and after 500 rds. I've spent like $80 to shoot for the afternoon. Granted, it's got a bit more range, but if you're just going out to plink around, a .22 is the way to go.

[DarkFury]

I agree with WhiskeyPapa here. The best home defense weapon is a shotgun. You get ridiculous stopping power, it's hard to miss, and it's intimidating as hell. You know in the movies when they pump a shotgun? Yeah, it sounds like that, but it's much louder and scarier in person.



Amen to that....

Taken from the "What is the Worst Sound Ever" Thread...

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showpost.php?p=934677&postcount=24

[Cheesypuff]

I'm also researching gun for purchase, I personally was thinking about buying a beretta px4 storm. I've researched a lot about this gun and I really dig it. the only drawback is the heafty pricetag.

[BigJon]

Hardware? Need Deals? :heh:

[WhiskeyPapa]

In my experience, used pistols in good shape are generally 60%-75% of new price.

I have a Ruger MkII and it is a great gun. But a .22 will hardly stop a drug-addled ne'er-do-well.

Leon is right about firing a handgun in an apartment building. You may be totally justified in shooting an intruder, but you may end up hitting the 4 year old in the next apartment.

Actually, any round (handgun, rifle or shotgun) that will stop an intruder *will* penetrate walls.

[ShawnLee]

The MK III is a little different from the MK II, I prefer the II, but the III is great gun. Still, I'm with WP, if you're looking at home defense, don't get a 22. Not that it won't do the damage, but it's not as psychologically effective as a larger handgun, or shotgun for that matter.

I recommend what Leon said. Go to a shooting range with a wide variety of guns available for rental. Or go with someone with a lot of guns. Shoot them all.

DO NOT listen to the guy behind the counter at the gun store. Commissions that come from the manufacturer are powerful motivators. I've met more than one person who has bought a "decent" gun that was sold to them as "the greatest gun known to man" and instantly regretted it.

I have an HK USP 9mm. I love it. It's comfortable and shoots well. I'm accurate enough to easilly put an entire magazine into anyone that gets into my house. But that's me.

Here's the thing. My word of recommendation is that you don't need to get the BEST gun out there. Get the most comfortable gun to your hand.
If the magazines say one has a one inch shot group and the other has a one and half inch shot group, don't automatically get the tighter group. You're likely to not shoot so well that you'll even notice that.

Where are you? If you're in So Cal, PM me and we'll go shooting, I'll try to give you a deal.

[Houdini]

The MK III is a little different from the MK II, I prefer the II, but the III is great gun. Still, I'm with WP, if you're looking at home defense, don't get a 22. Not that it won't do the damage, but it's not as psychologically effective as a larger handgun, or shotgun for that matter.

I recommend what Leon said. Go to a shooting range with a wide variety of guns available for rental. Or go with someone with a lot of guns. Shoot them all.

DO NOT listen to the guy behind the counter at the gun store. Commissions that come from the manufacturer are powerful motivators. I've met more than one person who has bought a "decent" gun that was sold to them as "the greatest gun known to man" and instantly regretted it.

I have an HK USP 9mm. I love it. It's comfortable and shoots well. I'm accurate enough to easilly put an entire magazine into anyone that gets into my house. But that's me.

Here's the thing. My word of recommendation is that you don't need to get the BEST gun out there. Get the most comfortable gun to your hand.
If the magazines say one has a one inch shot group and the other has a one and half inch shot group, don't automatically get the tighter group. You're likely to not shoot so well that you'll even notice that.

Where are you? If you're in So Cal, PM me and we'll go shooting, I'll try to give you a deal.


I prefer the MKII over the MKIII as well, but the Browning Buckmark is also a nice .22 (the one I have.)

If you're new to handguns, I suggest one of the above to get acquainted with gun safety, trigger control, etc., without spending much $$ on ammo. You can get like 500 rounds for $6 or so. You can also work on your accuracy to fix even SMALL flaws in technique, as your group sizes are much more significant with a .22.

Glocks are great, b/c they always go bang, there's no external safety to screw with, and they're about as durable as you can get. Yes, they're ugly as hell, but they work great.

Another thing to consider, especially for home defense, is penetration. You want the round to stop in the bad guy, and if you miss, you don't want it to penetrate your walls and hit a neighbor.

Shotguns can be a little unwieldy in a house, as generally their barrels are long. Yes, the clack-clack of a pump action scares the hell out of people, but for manuverability, I'd be tempted to grab a handgun and a good tactical light.

[Cheesypuff]

hollow point will have the stopping power!!!

[ialsohaveadream]

You know what will stop any intruder and not injure any bystanders? Two things: This...
http://www.milkandcookies.com/images/feature/l/lightsaber.jpg
and being at one with The Force. :)

[Grimm]

I'm no expert with guns, but I do have some familliarity with them.
I talked with a few profesional burglars, asked them what is the scarriest thing that ever happend to them when breaking into a house. One said that he heard a 12 guage pump. He got out of the house as fast as he could, even though he was armed at the time. One of the others said that he heard someone chamber a round into an automatic pistol, he left too, but he did say that he didn't think it was as scarry as a shotgun would be. The third said that "Freeze, Police!" whas the scarriest thing he ever heard but also admitted that he would pee his pants if he had ever heard a 12 guage pump chamber a round.
I went out and bought a Winchester Defender 12 gauge pump for home defense. They are very inexpensive as far as firearms go. Also, remember, a small child is going to have great difficulty chambering a round in a shotgun.

9mm are bad choices for home defense. The rounds have a much higher velocity and have much better penitration. They are much more likely than a larger, slower round to penitrate a few walls and hit a bystander. 9mm are great for target practice. I don't like a Glock much, too light, transfers too much shock to the hand, or at least the earlier models did.

Maybe you just want to get a gun for target practice. The best home defense is the telephone.

[speedracer120]

You should also check the murder laws in your state. Every state's statutes are different, God forbid the worse comes to visit you, but better safe then sorry. Remember ignorance of the law is not an excuse or defense.

[Agent Plissken]

Called around a few places for prices. For living in Alabama I sure am dissapointed in the lack of places to buy guns!
So far the best price I found on the Glock 22 was $489 new or $429 (with night sights) used.
what are night sights?
$424 for the Ruger MrkIII new.
Should I keep shopping around?
Are gun prices negotiable? I assume the used ones are...? Anyway, thanks again!

[Grimm]

Have you looked into gun shows?

Apparently there is one in Birmingham Nov 26-27.
You missed one in Montgomery on the 5th and 6th.

[Houdini]

Called around a few places for prices. For living in Alabama I sure am dissapointed in the lack of places to buy guns!
So far the best price I found on the Glock 22 was $489 new or $429 (with night sights) used.
what are night sights?
$424 for the Ruger MrkIII new.
Should I keep shopping around?
Are gun prices negotiable? I assume the used ones are...? Anyway, thanks again!

Glocks usually run around $500. They recently increased their price by about $20 and added a locking mechanism in the grip, which some people (including myself) dread. Used ones are usually a pretty good bet. Find out what generation they are, as some minor improvements have been made over the years.

THere are a few types of night sites. Most are tiny capsules of tritium enclosed in a substance that fluoresces.

Seems kinda high for the Ruger. I'd go for a MK2 or a Browning Buckmark. My Buckmark is a real tack driver and was less than half the cost.

[Houdini]

9mm are bad choices for home defense. The rounds have a much higher velocity and have much better penitration. They are much more likely than a larger, slower round to penitrate a few walls and hit a bystander. 9mm are great for target practice. I don't like a Glock much, too light, transfers too much shock to the hand, or at least the earlier models did.


Well, I agree to an extent. It all depends on the ammunition and shot placement. 9mm hollowpoints or self-defense rounds are less likely to penetrate, as are some "safety slugs" like Glasers. The manuverability and the likelihood that you will have practiced a LOT with the 9mm will drastically increase your accuracy, comfort with the weapon, and subsequently shot placement.

Some like Glocks, some don't. I can hit an 8" metal gong at 100 yards offhand with a Glock 26 (the tiny, baby glock 9mm). They're accurate as hell, and while they're lighter, the muzzle axis (lower) and slight flexibility of the polymer body aid in reducing perceived recoil. To me, .40 cal seems too abrupt, shocking to the hand. .45 cal is nice, as it seems spread out over a longer time, and it's a heavier round going much slower. If someone is using it to target shoot or is learning, a 9mm is often an ideal carry weapon. I wouldn't hesitate to use one in my apartment if needed, with appropriate ammunition (I prefer Federal Hydroshok hollowpoints.)

[Houdini]

Maybe you just want to get a gun for target practice. The best home defense is the telephone.

Maybe, but it's usually too late before the cops get there. :(

[Grimm]

Maybe, but it's usually too late before the cops get there. :(
True, but that is why I have a Winchester 12 gauge pump. Someone breaks into my place and I am dialing 911, grabbing the 12 guage and then talking to the dispatcher. I figure that I can load while talking to the dispatcher and me yelling "Drop the gun" before shooting will be a convincing defense on the 911 tape.

Home defense and target shooting are entirely different. If I was going to use a pistol I would go with a large calibre if I could. For target shooting I want a small calibre, it's cheaper to plink off 100 .38 rounds than it is to fire 100 .44 magnum.

Here is an idea. Get a .357 Magnum revolver. Target shoot with .38 rounds and load with .357 rounds.

[ShawnLee]

You don't need the night sights. I have a set on my Beretta, and while it's cool, it doesn't do much in the way of actually being helpful for home defense.

My amended recommendation?

Grimm is right on with the revolver recommendation. Revolvers are old stand-bys. You can leave one sitting in your closet loaded for fifteen years, not touch it, let dust collect, and as long as the rounds aren't corroded the gun will fire fine.

I disagree with cautioning against the 9mm. The bullets do come out a little hotter, but not much more than ANY round you're going to be shooting inside a house. That, and you can get rounds that are loaded to come out slower.

The 22 for a few hundred seems overpriced. Keep shopping.

If you're thinking night defense, forget the night sights and go with a good rail light. I have the surefire x200 and it's brilliant. It'll attach to nearly any rail (except my HK... requiring an adapter) so it's good with a Glock, Sig, SA XD-9.

Oh, and that reminds me. Springfield Armory's XD series (9/40/45). Extremely comfortable gun, shoots well, essentially the same mechanics as a Glock. Try that one out as well. Just don't get the ported model as it's a real pain in the butt to clean out the grooves.

To me, .40 cal seems too abrupt, shocking to the hand. .45 cal is nice, as it seems spread out over a longer time, and it's a heavier round going much slower. If someone is using it to target shoot or is learning, a 9mm is often an ideal carry weapon. I wouldn't hesitate to use one in my apartment if needed, with appropriate ammunition (I prefer Federal Hydroshok hollowpoints.):stupid: I like the 40, but it's not my preferred caliber. More than I need.

[CynJon]

I second Houdini's recommendation for the Browning Buckmark...I did a lot of shopping around before buying mine. I've owned a the Ruger MKII target version and the Browning shoots circles around it...Mine is the Buckmark Target 5.5, which they don't make anymore apparently. It has the bull barrel, full length Weaver rail and hooded target sights. I put a Tasco Red Dot sight on it...lots of fun. It will shoot 1" 10-shot groups at 25 yards with match ammo. Here's a pic of mine:

http://www.lemonizer.com/upload/uploadsMarch/BuckMark.jpg

Browning sells the BuckMark Hunter, which is similar, with different grips and a half-length Weaver rail. Go to a gun shop and check one out! Here's a link to the Hunter:

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=006B&cat_id=051&type_id=403

I also recommend the Glock to the novice shooter--easy to use, light, carry-friendly (no sharp edges) and guaranteed to go "bang" when you need it to. I am a big fan of the .40 S&W cartridge, and its close relative the .357 SIG (near .357 Magnum ballistics in an auto...nice), but you can't go wrong with .45 ACP either. One advantage to going with the .45 is that there is lots of surplus ammo out there to be had for cheap... It took me a long time to "get on board" with the Glock camp, but I really like my Glock 22. Hard to beat the high capacity of the Glocks, either.

Like others above have said, go out and find out what works for YOU. Don't let anyone tell you what is "best". That's for you to decide.

[Burzhui]

I am trying to get a gun unfortunatelly however i did run into a couple of problems. A. really extreme gun control laws and B. *borat* Sex crime misunderstanding... *borat*

But walter and Sag Sauer would be my choice for handguns and a shotgun for home

[Houdini]

I am trying to get a gun unfortunatelly however i did run into a couple of problems. A. really extreme gun control laws and B. *borat* Sex crime misunderstanding... *borat*

But walter and Sag Sauer would be my choice for handguns and a shotgun for home

Walthers used to be pretty good, but now they're known for some reliability problems. Still, the PPK or PPK/S is a great weapon for concealed carry. More refined than its very reliable and MUCH CHEAPER clone, the Bersa Thunder.

Sig also makes nice guns. The newer ones feel funny to me though. Kinda plasticky or something. If you can find one that has "Made in W. Germany" stamped on it in good condition, it's a keeper. :)

[ShawnLee]

Walthers used to be pretty good, but now they're known for some reliability problems. Still, the PPK or PPK/S is a great weapon for concealed carry. More refined than its very reliable and MUCH CHEAPER clone, the Bersa Thunder. While I don't knock them, per se, I don't like Walthers that much because I find it to be too pointlessly difficult to work with, but I'm just lazy that way. And by this, I mean that taking it apart and getting familiar with it isn't as simple as the plastic guns. True, a 1911 isn't that way either, but a 1911 has history and tradition built into it.
Sig also makes nice guns. The newer ones feel funny to me though. Kinda plasticky or something. If you can find one that has "Made in W. Germany" stamped on it in good condition, it's a keeper. :)Are you sure it wasn't plastic? Sig has models of the P series called SigPro's that are polymer frames. Otherwise identical to their all-metal counterparts, they're lighter and generally about 200 bucks cheaper.

As for finding older Sigs, ask your gunstore to find you a "Certified Pre-Owned" Sig. It's cheesy to look at it like a luxury car, but they're basically older model guns that pass factory standards, have been re-blued, and have all new component parts. Pretty nice. All the kinks have been worked out, you get the older feel that some people like, factory warranty, and all for half the price of a brand new one.

[Houdini]

As for finding older Sigs, ask your gunstore to find you a "Certified Pre-Owned" Sig. It's cheesy to look at it like a luxury car, but they're basically older model guns that pass factory standards, have been re-blued, and have all new component parts. Pretty nice. All the kinks have been worked out, you get the older feel that some people like, factory warranty, and all for half the price of a brand new one.

Yeah...1911's are a pain to dissassemble and clean. So are Ruger MKIIs though. That's one of the reasons I like my Bersa. Sorta like a Beretta wiith one switch and remove the slide (barrel stays - blowback). My main issue with both it and Beretta models is the safety. Way too much fine motor coordination to flip the switch under pressure. Of course, you could always just use it as a decocker.

You're right about the plastic Sigs. Still, I have a friend with a Sig he bought in the 80s that has had zillions of rounds through it but still shoots like new. Great lockup, etc. And the "West Germany" stamp is pretty cool. :)

My next purchase will probably be a Glock 19. The 26 is a great gun, but I'd like the higher capacity and sight radius in case I want to shoot in GSSF matches or steel matches or something. I've used a 26 for steel matches w/o problems, but the 19 would be a little quicker and more accurate. It's also a good compact gun for concealment purposes with 15 rounds.

I love my Buckmark as well. With a cheapo red dot sight on it, I can hit just about anything without much effort. Target acquirement is uberfast. :)

[IrishSS]

While I don't knock them, per se, I don't like Walthers that much because I find it to be too pointlessly difficult to work with, but I'm just lazy that way. And by this, I mean that taking it apart and getting familiar with it isn't as simple as the plastic guns.

I don't see how the P99 is complicated to take down... or maybe I'm missing something? It's got like 4 pieces for basic cleaning... The slide, barrel, spring and stock? Take apart the stock and trigger and you total like what, 10-12 pieces max?

[Kevster]

I use gunbroker.com... it's basically an Ebay for guns. I bought my Walther off there and couldn't be happier with the transaction.

I got my left-handed Remington 11-87 shotgun through gunbroker.com. :thumb:

(yes, I shoot south-paw!)

[ufcrusher]

I dont know what is sadder...not owning a gun or a man not owning a gun when his wife does.

Honestly, I dont own a handgun although I did go through a phase in college where I was looking for one. I had come down between a Sig and a Glock but finally decided that the chance of accidental injury was too high.

By this I mean that I have a mentally retarded sister as well as 2 younger siblings who could have stumbled across the weapon. There really were no decent trigger locks back then so it was a real concern. Now that they are no longer a real issue, only visiting plus I would probably look it away in our safe, I am reluctant to buy one as I dont want to have a gun in the house with young children. I know the NRA states that with trigger locks, proper storage, and teaching kids that guns arent toys its supposedly not too dangerous to have both under your roof, but I err on the side of caution.

I havent gone shooting in several years at this point, but it was always fun.

[DaFunkyUnit]

damn, i needs to get myself a gun since everyone else has one.


hooray for cold wars!

[Kevster]

damn, i needs to get myself a gun since everyone else has one.


hooray for cold wars!

Well, no handguns here, but I do have 3 shotguns and two rifles. :D

[Hoser]

Kevster, what's the difference between a left and right handed weapon? Is the grip or stock different? I've never noticed any differences, but maybe everything I've tried has been right handed.

[Kevster]

Kevster, what's the difference between a left and right handed weapon? Is the grip or stock different? I've never noticed any differences, but maybe everything I've tried has been right handed.

A left-handed weapon has the ejection feed on the left side, not the right. That way your right arm doesn't get hit by the shells ejecting out the side (if you're holding a rifle that makes a big difference). When I shoot my Ruger 10/22 rifle for any length of time, my right forearm is usually coated in black powder stains from the rimfire cartidges hitting it. For me a left-handed shotgun only makes a real difference with a semi-automatic, it doesn't matter to me so much with a slide-action shotgun. The same goes for handguns. Semi-auto weapons eject their shells to the right, left-handed models eject theirs to the left. For revolvers it doesn't make a difference.

[le_stick]

get an SKS/Garand, they will eject the shell straight up, but not recommend for home defense. They are fun for target shooting though.

[Houdini]

get an SKS/Garand, they will eject the shell straight up, but not recommend for home defense. They are fun for target shooting though.

Heh, and with the Garand (best warfare weapon ever made, according to Patton), you get that nice "ping!" when the clip (not to be confused with magazine, though many people use the terms interchangeably wrongly) flies out after the last shot. Even in most recent WWII era movies, the ping can be heard. It's kinda cool.

SKS is a good weapon, but many of the stocks are kinda short.

Neither is very good for home defense though. 30.06 will penetrate A LOT, and can be expensive unless you reload. Even so, I'd take a Garand over an '03A3 bolt action if I'll be shooting all day. The semiauto action really reduces recoil.

[Agent Plissken]

I purchased a Ruger MRKII (new) for $289 today! After reading about the MRKII and MRKIII I am glad I could find a MRKII still new since they dont make them any more. It was marked much higher and I haggled them down to my final price :hehehmm:
I dont like the grip on it though, can I replace that (fairly easily)?


I am still looking for a Glock 22 for a good price and keeping an eye out for many of the suggestions you guys have made!

[Houdini]

I purchased a Ruger MRKII (new) for $289 today! After reading about the MRKII and MRKIII I am glad I could find a MRKII still new since they dont make them any more. It was marked much higher and I haggled them down to my final price :hehehmm:
I dont like the grip on it though, can I replace that (fairly easily)?


I am still looking for a Glock 22 for a good price and keeping an eye out for many of the suggestions you guys have made!

It sounds like you made a great purchase. Enjoy shooting it! Plenty of aftermarket grips are made for that weapon, including some with molded thumb spaces, etc. They're damn accurate.

As far as the Glock, the going price is ususally 500 for a new one. It would be very tough to find one for less than that new. Used, in good condition, they still go for $440 or so. Glock recently raised the price by $20 or so to accomodate the new "feature" of a lockable gun. I say get one before they run out of stock of the ones without the "feature."

[Agent Plissken]

Plenty of aftermarket grips...
...
As far as the Glock, the going price is ususally 500 for a new one. It would be very tough to find one for less than that new. Used, in good condition, they still go for $440 or so.

Where do I get aftermarket grips?
...
I was quoted $489 for a new Glock 22 at one place I called... Should I jump on this price?

[CynJon]

I purchased a Ruger MRKII (new) for $289 today! After reading about the MRKII and MRKIII I am glad I could find a MRKII still new since they dont make them any more. It was marked much higher and I haggled them down to my final price :hehehmm:
I dont like the grip on it though, can I replace that (fairly easily)?


I am still looking for a Glock 22 for a good price and keeping an eye out for many of the suggestions you guys have made!

Ajax grips makes a really nice replacement grip, with or without thumbrest ($55-$65):

http://www.ajaxgrips.com/ajax/ajax?set=07

Woodgrips.com ($50):

http://www.woodgrips.com/ruger_mkiii.htm

Eagle grips ($40 in Rosewood):

http://www.eaglegrips.com/firearms1.htm

Or, add a laser with the Crimson Trace Lasergrips :P :

http://botac.com/crinsontrace.html

Then there's always Fleabay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Handcrafted-Curly-Red-Oak-Wood-Grips-for-Ruger-MKII_W0QQitemZ7196996950QQcategoryZ39425QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Crimson-Trace-LaserGrips-Ruger-MKII-LG203-Grips-NEW_W0QQitemZ7196248869QQcategoryZ36258QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What I'd recommend for starters is a set of Hogue grips--not as stylish as some of the exotic wood grips, they are inexpensive, super functional and comfortable. I have Hogue's on several of my handguns, as well as the pistol grip and fore-end of my AR-15. It's got a good tacky feel and are very ergonomic. Lots of them on eBay, do a search for Ruger MKII:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOGUE-GRIP-RUGER-MKII-THUMB-REST-FNG-GROV-RH-82060_W0QQitemZ7139562420QQcategoryZ39425QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Good luck!

[Agent Plissken]

Thanks, I think Ill go with Hogue!

[Cheesypuff]

OoooOooo...I have an idea....whoever my secret santa is...buy me a GUN!!! =) j/k

[doolittle]

Ive allways felt that a revolver is best for a first handgun, Its more reliable and a safer weapon. The 357 is nice cuase you can put 38's in it for target practice.

[ShawnLee]

Thanks, I think Ill go with Hogue!I like my Hogue grips. The soft molded rubber seems more comfortable than any other company's rubber.

[Airencracken]

I've always wanted a luger.

[nickel]

I've always wanted a loogie.
well... i'd send you one, but i don't know how i'd gift wrap it. :D

[Agent Plissken]

Well, I got my second gun today!
Was in the same place I got my Ruger MKII and they had a very new looking H&K Compact USP 40 S&W. They had a sticker for $689 and I swindled them down to $525! I cant wait to shoot it!

Oh I almost forgot, I talked to the owner about ordering the Buckmark 22 Hunter and/or the Ruger MKIII Hunter (stainless steel fluted barrel etc). The (new) price he can get is $290 and $365
(plus small mark up to be negotiated).

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4039/side18gn.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7695/side21dj.jpg

[Agent Plissken]

Thanks everyone! Ill be back for questions when I go to buy a shotgun!

[speedracer120]

Dude, Hyundai must be treating you good.

[Agent Plissken]

Dude, Hyundai must be treating you good.

Its the 70 hr work weeks...

[Houdini]

Ive allways felt that a revolver is best for a first handgun, Its more reliable and a safer weapon. The 357 is nice cuase you can put 38's in it for target practice.

Not necessarily safer. A glock, for instance, is as safe as any revolver. And if you're into that sorta thing, revolvers generally don't have safeties.

[ShawnLee]

While I'm not a fan of USP Compacts (I far prefer full sized), I know that they're well made and easy to shoot. I also understand getting them for concealed carry. But I most understand that at the price you bought it, that's crazy. And crazy good, not crazy bad. Sweet, dude.

[dougadam]

Kimber (http://www.kimberamerica.com/index2.php)

Kimber is the best.

:bandit:

[Houdini]

While I'm not a fan of USP Compacts (I far prefer full sized), I know that they're well made and easy to shoot. I also understand getting them for concealed carry. But I most understand that at the price you bought it, that's crazy. And crazy good, not crazy bad. Sweet, dude.

:stupid:

I mainly don't like the mag release. I'd have to relearn how to change mags! But since the Ruger has the switch at the bottom, it doesn't really matter. If you had only, say, a Glock and the USP, you'd have to remember which gun you're holding to drop the mag. :)

[Agent Plissken]

:stupid:

I mainly don't like the mag release. I'd have to relearn how to change mags! But since the Ruger has the switch at the bottom, it doesn't really matter. If you had only, say, a Glock and the USP, you'd have to remember which gun you're holding to drop the mag. :)

The USP mag release is under the trigger guard on both sides, so it is different than the ruger... Maybe Im not understanding what youre saying...

[ShawnLee]

I love the mag release on the USP, it feels natural to me. The only thing for me about the compact is that it doesn't feel as solid in my hand when I shoot it. But that's just me and compacts in general.

For example, with Glock 9mm's I far prefer the 17 to the 19.

[Yossarian]

pistols are nice to shoot with, and are good for hiding for defence, ect. but its kinda hard to aim accuratly in low light. get your self a pump action shotgun(or do what dad did, after already having a pump, and get a riot gun, buy a laser sight, and claim to want to 'play with the cats') and your chances are highly increased of hitting anything.

[ShawnLee]

Back to the original point, I'm with Yoss.

In terms of absolute defense? Psychologically, get a shotgun. Pump it once and most people will run. Attach a large Surefire weapon-light to it and blind anyone stupid enough to not run at that point. If you can, they should be blinded by the light enough that you can knock them to the ground with a thwack from your buttstock. And then, you can guess what the last option left is.

[Houdini]

I love the mag release on the USP, it feels natural to me. The only thing for me about the compact is that it doesn't feel as solid in my hand when I shoot it. But that's just me and compacts in general.

For example, with Glock 9mm's I far prefer the 17 to the 19.

Once you get used to it, I'm sure it's nice. It's just weird for me to use my finger instead of my thumb to use the mag release. Though my finger is long enough to use the USP's release. I'm just used to buttons I guess.

I like my 19, as it's a good compromise b/w the 17 and the 26, especially if you intend to conceal. But the dual recoil spring in the 26 along with the barrel axis and whatever wizardy they put into that thing makes it very comfortable and easy to shoot, even though it's tiny. Accurate as hell too. I can hit an 8" steel plate at 100 yards offhand with my friend's G26.

[Houdini]

The USP mag release is under the trigger guard on both sides, so it is different than the ruger... Maybe Im not understanding what youre saying...

Must autos have a mag release button on the side of the grip. That's what I'm used to. :shrug: While I'd love to get a USP someday, I'd be concerned I'd try to hit the wrong release mechanism under pressure.

[Houdini]

Back to the original point, I'm with Yoss.

In terms of absolute defense? Psychologically, get a shotgun. Pump it once and most people will run. Attach a large Surefire weapon-light to it and blind anyone stupid enough to not run at that point. If you can, they should be blinded by the light enough that you can knock them to the ground with a thwack from your buttstock. And then, you can guess what the last option left is.

:stupid:

Shotguns=intimidation, relatively low penetration through walls, etc., easily attachable tactical lights, and easy pointability. As long as you get a relatively short-barrelled one. A long one can be cumbersome for house clearing. :)

[Agent Plissken]

A co-worker of mine wants to get in on some gun owning action as well, he is looking at a used P89... any thoughts on it or it's pricing?

[CynJon]

I used to have one...didn't keep it long. Big, heavy, awkward unless you've got huge hands. Upside, they tend to be very affordable. If he likes the styling and it fits his hand, they are a solid, reliable handgun. If he can get it at a fair price, I'd say go for it!

[dsuds]

I've told my son that if anybody breaks into the house....

1. Put on you hearing protection.
2. Aim the gun up in the air
3. Fire off a round from the K98 Mauser

The blast from that cannon will cause EVERYONE in the house to LEAVE!! It would have about the same effect as setting off a flash-bang.

[Agent Plissken]

I finally had a day off work today and shot a few hundred rounds through my pistols!
I really like both of them!
A friend of mine came with his cheap-o Kaltech 9mm, I am glad I didnt go for a cheap gun now!

Anyway, at the pawn shop where I got my guns, there is a S&W model 66 (.357 mag.) I am thinking of getting it if I can talk them down to around $200.
Any thoughts?

[Grimm]

Anyway, at the pawn shop where I got my guns, there is a S&W model 66 (.357 mag.) I am thinking of getting it if I can talk them down to around $200.
Any thoughts?

Here is an idea. Get a .357 Magnum revolver. Target shoot with .38 rounds and load with .357 rounds.
Hmmm... can you guess what I think about it based on my prior comment? I doubt he will go down to $200 though.

[ShawnLee]

I finally had a day off work today and shot a few hundred rounds through my pistols!
I really like both of them!
A friend of mine came with his cheap-o Kaltech 9mm, I am glad I didnt go for a cheap gun now!

Anyway, at the pawn shop where I got my guns, there is a S&W model 66 (.357 mag.) I am thinking of getting it if I can talk them down to around $200.
Any thoughts?Yes!! Gotta love ammo therapy. And yes, with guns, you largely get what you pay for (except in my case where I got away with a steal).

With regards to the 66. I'd look for frame and barrel stress (especially where they're connected), how well the gun has been cleaned and maintained, and other conditions.
Don't worry about the condition of the grips because they're easily changed out.
I personally don't like small J frame revolvers as they're too light for me, but some say they're ideal for concealed carry.

If you think it's worth it, then by all means argue it down to $200, but shoot a 66 and decide it feels right in your hands before you decide to buy it.

[clutchy]

cool thread.


I picked up a glock 19 used a year or so ago, but it had never been fired. I think i paid $380 for it I think it's a second generation. For those that don't know the g19 is the compact. Fits very well in my hand and could easily be concealed if i ever move back to tx and get a ccw permit.


The only thing i'd shot before was a ruger .22 pistol, couple of rifle, and an ever so nice cop let me shoot his H&K MP5 full auto!!!. It was a little shocking at first because i wasn't used to the recoil and the first shell i put through it jammed. A friend told me that because glocks are so light if you don't tighten up your wrist a limp wrist can actually cause the gun to jam. Who knew... i sure didn't.

Anyways, i've grown quite attached to the thing, it's ridiculously easy to field strip and clean. I'm going to try and find some 17 round mags when i'm in tx over christmas :woohoo: no more AWB.


the only thing that makes me nervous about the glock is a lack of a safety switch. I know they have built in safety's such that the gun can't discharge if dropped and there's also that little lever on the trigger, but it still makes me nervous.

it's also not a great home def. weapon, but it's better than nothing and makes my wife feel more secure even though i don't keep it loaded.


great info in this thread btw, no one should be scared of guns they're merely tools.

[Agent Plissken]

if i ever move back to tx and get a ccw permit.
My concealed weapon permit will be approved by next monday (3 week waiting period in my county...)

I wont take it out much though, because usually when I go out, I go out and drink.
Anyway, a co-worker of mine has a mini-arsenel, Im going to go with him to try out the model 66 and many other different guns...

[ShawnLee]

A friend told me that because glocks are so light if you don't tighten up your wrist a limp wrist can actually cause the gun to jam. Who knew... i sure didn't. Actually, it's not just Glocks. I've seen heavy guns feed improperly due to limp-wristing (semi-automatics, of course) and I'm talking HEAVY guns.
the only thing that makes me nervous about the glock is a lack of a safety switch. I know they have built in safety's such that the gun can't discharge if dropped and there's also that little lever on the trigger, but it still makes me nervous.I wouldn't recommend changing the trigger on it, but that's an option. A New York 2 trigger will basically make the trigger pull about 12.5 lbs and you won't shoot that unless you absolutely want to. It's actually not that bad from what I've heard, just as long as you're not putting it in your pocket with a set of keys pushed against the trigger.
it's also not a great home def. weapon, but it's better than nothing and makes my wife feel more secure even though i don't keep it loaded.Sorry to ramble, but I respectfully disagree. I'm not a fan of Glocks, really I'm not, but they're excellent home defense weapons. Glocks take a licking and keep on ticking almost as well as revolvers (with the exception of Glock 21 .45's which seem to be having problems with the LAPD). Glocks are guns that you can not worry about how it will shoot when you need it to shoot. They're not the prettiest of guns but they're also not overly fickle about how clean they are and whatnot when they're shot, they take a lot of abuse fairly well, and overall they'll do what you need it to do.

[clutchy]

Actually, it's not just Glocks. I've seen heavy guns feed improperly due to limp-wristing (semi-automatics, of course) and I'm talking HEAVY guns.I wouldn't recommend changing the trigger on it, but that's an option. A New York 2 trigger will basically make the trigger pull about 12.5 lbs and you won't shoot that unless you absolutely want to. It's actually not that bad from what I've heard, just as long as you're not putting it in your pocket with a set of keys pushed against the trigger.Sorry to ramble, but I respectfully disagree. I'm not a fan of Glocks, really I'm not, but they're excellent home defense weapons. Glocks take a licking and keep on ticking almost as well as revolvers (with the exception of Glock 21 .45's which seem to be having problems with the LAPD). Glocks are guns that you can not worry about how it will shoot when you need it to shoot. They're not the prettiest of guns but they're also not overly fickle about how clean they are and whatnot when they're shot, they take a lot of abuse fairly well, and overall they'll do what you need it to do.


Yeah i'd never run into the limp wrist problem before, probably not an issue w/ .22's... Although now that i think about it i did shoot another 9mm w/o issue. Oh well i haven't had it happen to me since.

I have no intention of changing the trigger, just makes me a little uncomfortable.


good to know about the glock's reliability i've always heard people say similar stuff about them, glad to know you agree.


why don't you like glocks? When i first saw them i thought they were the ugliest guns i'd ever seen and it was last gun i thought i'd ever end up with... weird how things happen.

[clutchy]

My concealed weapon permit will be approved by next monday (3 week waiting period in my county...)



Awesome!! I'd get the permit just because, i have no real interest in carrying a weapon around, but having the permit would be great. I get a kick out of exercising rights. It's great that you're doing it as well.

[ShawnLee]

why don't you like glocks? When i first saw them i thought they were the ugliest guns i'd ever seen and it was last gun i thought i'd ever end up with... weird how things happen.At first, I was really into them. Mainly because I didn't know much better and I liked video games. When I held one in my hands, it was comfortable, but it still felt cheap to me. I know it isn't a cheap gun, but even with a plastic gun, I much prefer my solid HK over the Glock.

I forgot who described it that way, but someone said that shooting a Glock when owning a nicer gun is like visiting a cheap whore while you're married to a Playmate of the Year. I wouldn't put it that way, but the comparison stands.

[clutchy]

huh, well the only HK i've shot was an mp5 so i'll stay away... pretty happy with my little plinker so i'll just pretend it's the best plastic gun evar!!

[Houdini]

I like Glocks. It took me a while to become a Glock convert, but now I think they're great. If you pull the trigger, they always go bang. If you don't, they won't. People get nervous about the basense of an external safety, but they're no more dangerous than double action revolvers, and they hold a lot more ammo. They're ugly as hell, but they work wonderfully and accurately. I can hit an 8" gong at 100 yards with a 26 (subcompact) offhand. That's accurate enough for me.

Also, re: G19, it only holds 15 (+1) rounds without a mag extension, which would defeat the purpose of having a compact model. With Speer Gold Dot +P ammo, they pack nearly the punch of a .40 cal for the not-so-much-fan-of-9mm crowd.

[Cheesypuff]

cool thread.


I picked up a glock 19 used a year or so ago, but it had never been fired. I think i paid $380 for it I think it's a second generation. For those that don't know the g19 is the compact. Fits very well in my hand and could easily be concealed if i ever move back to tx and get a ccw permit.




you have a GUN?!?!? DUDE!!! I'm so coming over to visit you. when I get my gun...lets go shooting sometime. :johnwoo2:

[clutchy]

I like Glocks. It took me a while to become a Glock convert, but now I think they're great. If you pull the trigger, they always go bang. If you don't, they won't. People get nervous about the basense of an external safety, but they're no more dangerous than double action revolvers, and they hold a lot more ammo. They're ugly as hell, but they work wonderfully and accurately. I can hit an 8" gong at 100 yards with a 26 (subcompact) offhand. That's accurate enough for me.

Also, re: G19, it only holds 15 (+1) rounds without a mag extension, which would defeat the purpose of having a compact model. With Speer Gold Dot +P ammo, they pack nearly the punch of a .40 cal for the not-so-much-fan-of-9mm crowd.



good to know, thanks for the info. 15+1, bummer i was hoping for 17, but 15 will do just fine.


you have a GUN?!?!? DUDE!!! I'm so coming over to visit you. when I get my gun...lets go shooting sometime. :johnwoo2:


Sounds great Cheesypuff. Let me know what you get, still thinking beretta? they're awesome!:woo:

btw, i'm leaving for texas today:woohoo: I'll love the state in your absense, so you can live vicariously through me!!

[Houdini]

good to know, thanks for the info. 15+1, bummer i was hoping for 17, but 15 will do just fine.



Of course, just for plinking at the range, a Glock 17 mag will work just fine in a Glock 19. They're interchangeable. For real capacity, get a Glock 18 mag (30 rounds). The Glock 18C is the full-auto version, not so easily obtained, but the mags are sold legally. :)

[ShawnLee]

Of course, just for plinking at the range, a Glock 17 mag will work just fine in a Glock 19. They're interchangeable. For real capacity, get a Glock 18 mag (30 rounds). The Glock 18C is the full-auto version, not so easily obtained, but the mags are sold legally. :)Unless you're in California. Then you have to buy in Arizona, then hope the guy next to you at the range doesn't turn you in to the cops, or in my range's case, hope that the cop next to you is cool enough to either say, "Eh, whatever," or, "Cool! I hate that law too!"

[bachviet]

Unless you're in California. Then you have to buy in Arizona, then hope the guy next to you at the range doesn't turn you in to the cops, or in my range's case, hope that the cop next to you is cool enough to either say, "Eh, whatever," or, "Cool! I hate that law too!"
Not if the magazine were manufactured and sold before the laws came out (1995 I think). :D

[ShawnLee]

Not if the magazine were manufactured and sold before the laws came out (1995 I think). :DAh, if only the G18 had come out prior to 1995.

I remember the first time I saw a Glock 18 shoot (other than in Face|Off, if it was a G18). It was on Mail Call, and boy was I drooling after that.

[Agent Plissken]

Ok gentlemen!

I need your help once again...

So I was in the pawn shop where I got my USP and I see this "Colt Border Patrol" .357 revolver. It seems to be a quality gun and I talk him down in price and ended up buying it (like 1/2 hour ago).
Now I went on gunsamerica.com to see the value of my purchase and I cant find it listed. I cant find any reviews for it on google or anything...
Help me out here any info on this piece!

Also it came with some god awful after market grips, I want to buy some originals.

Thanks guys!

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/1060/colt9qf.jpg

[doolittle]

Nice choice, that thing is a tank:fal:, perfect for targeting with 38's and 375 if you want a good kick. Take it with you to a gun show, you’ll be able to find any part you want for it. You should be able to find a manual for it online; basically a schematic of the parts is all you’ll need. I’ve heard people say that colts have allot of factory defects. But its also one of most popular handguns of its time = more returns, my grandfathers old 38s and 45 cals are still kicking w/no problems. Also it maybe a good idea to take it to a gunsmith and have it serviced (they'll probably service them at a show), they will take it apart clean it and replace any worn springs, worn pins etc, if there are any. or you can take most of it apart and inspect yourself (if your so inclined) you should be able to find tips on servicing a colt revolver online. enjoy tha nice peice:johnwoo2:

[Agent Plissken]

:) Thanks for the feedback doolittle

So why cant I find this thing on the internet?
Is it possible to tell what year it was made by the serial number?
What is the value?

edit* After doing some research, the border patrol is the same gun as the Trooper Mk III

[Houdini]

Kimber (http://www.kimberamerica.com/index2.php)

Kimber is the best.

:bandit:

Kimber's good, but I've had experiences with friends who have found trouble with them new out of the box. They usually require some tuning by a gunsmith, in my experience. Still can't beat the trigger of a 1911.

[ShawnLee]

So why cant I find this thing on the internet?
Is it possible to tell what year it was made by the serial number?
What is the value?What I've found so far says that it was originally produced as a .38. Colt should probably be able to get info based on serial number, but whether they will or not is a different question. From what I've seen online, the value changes according to production year, as it seems some changes were made over the course of the production. I'll look for some links to share and put them up.

Kimber's good, but I've had experiences with friends who have found trouble with them new out of the box. They usually require some tuning by a gunsmith, in my experience. Still can't beat the trigger of a 1911.I wouldn't say they need to be tuned. In my experience, a good break-in period smooths it out and gets the kinks figured out. 250 rds. should be enough, 500 at most.

Of course, the benefit to having more guns is that you can do stupid things with them. Like take pictures of yourself with them!
http://x60.xanga.com/7b4b3a64d9d3231839647/b22163097.jpg

[doolittle]

LOL, Nice pic Shawnlee. everyone should post their rambo photos

[Houdini]

LOL, Nice pic Shawnlee. everyone should post their rambo photos

Naah...not me. I don't look rambo enough. Plus, I prefer to conceal my weapons. :)

[Agent Plissken]

Ok guys im back once again! I shot 50x .357 and 50x .38 special through my new colt and I have to say I love it. But wow, .357 is expensive! Even the .38 is more than the .40 S&W I get for the USP. So anyway, now im looking for a revolver in .22 or other cheap cal. (yes im already looking for a fourth gun...)

[doolittle]

I think its Taurus or Ruger that makes that slick 9 shot 22 revolver. 357's are expensive, but wow what a powerfull round.

[Agent Plissken]

I know taurus has some .22 nine shooters...
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=94SS5&category=Revolver
But I was looking at their "Tracker" series...
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=970SS6&category=Revolver
or their "hunter" lol
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=980SS12&category=Revolver

I need suggestions on good buys for .22 revolvers.

[speedracer120]

Hot damn, they even have .22 revolvers?! HAha. I gotta get me one of those!

[doolittle]

Your Girlfriend mighr be impressed with the 12" barrel, but a Five inch could be just as effective, if you hold it just right.
Yea iv'e allways wanted one of those 9 shot target shooters.



http://img137.imagevenue.com/loc86/th_011c1_ruger.jpg
http://img145.imagevenue.com/loc54/th_21de8_ruger2.jpg

[Sirrich3]

"You'll shoot your eye out kid"

[Agent Plissken]

I ordered the Stainless steel Taurus Tracker 970 22LR 6.5" brl. from my pawn shop (new). It should come in a few days. :)

[Agent Plissken]

I purchased an H&K P2000 today. Its in very good condition, but It came with everything except a manual. How can I find gun manuals online? Any experience with this model? Thanks!

[speedracer120]

Dude, that gun is fun. I shot about 20 rounds through it before. Great for CCW. The balance does seem off when you shoot it after shooting 200 through the 9mm HK USP. But I liked it because it was the same exact gun with a shorter but wider barrel.

How many guns you got now?! ATF might be on your butt soon.

[chadlnc]

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/images/media/productimages/rightbar/p2000sk_man.pdf

Printed manuals are also available from HK by emailing [email protected] ([email protected]) or writing HK at 21480 Pacific Boulevard, Sterling, VA 20166.

[Agent Plissken]

Lol... I have 5 guns now... and I got a rifle today also, its a Ruger 10/22 with a 50 round clip.

So anyone know the differences between the USP compact and the P2000? I noticed the trigger pulls differently: After you pull the slide back to chamber a round the hammer goes back down to the lowered position, but now when you pull the trigger it rises the hammer until you get to the back, then it stops until you pull it harder, then the hammer falls and it fires. It is a little odd to me, what did you think about this?

[Agent Plissken]

Thanks for the manual chadinc, this is for the Subcompact version though, im trying to navigate their site right now to find the regular P2000 but im not having any luck yet...

[chadlnc]

Sorry about that, you'll probably have to email them for it. Typically gun manufacturers will provide them free of charge.

[ShawnLee]

Yeah, let HK know and they'll send it to you. You may have to deal with some snooty German attitude before you get it though. You have an HK now and remember, they didn't sell it to you, you were privileged to be allowed to own one. Haha.

As for the diffs between the USP and P2000, I believe it's that the P2000 has a dedicated double-action only system where the hammer is always lowered, compared to the USP. The benefit to this is that it's also adjusted so that it's more easily moved in and out of holster or clothing without catching. Altogether, it's good for concealed carry without worry of accidental (read: negligent) discharge. The balance to this is that they lowered the trigger pull to (I think) between 5-8 lbs. which isn't too bad for double-action (and nearly as good as my single action). I think. I haven't read much on the P2000, I just enjoyed shooting it.

[Agent Plissken]

Ive started a new thread, since we havent really been on topic here.

http://forums.gotapex.com/showthread.php?t=97061