SS: Fiancee moved out

[adjaw]

After a pleasant week filled with some good times, my fiancee came home from work Sunday and said that when she is away she cannot help but think of the problems that we have had in our relationship. She then moved out. I love her more than anything and am still trying to work things out. She hasn't been very receptive the past couple days, asking me to not visit her at her work or home. I have asked her if she would consider dating me again, like earlier in our relationship....she said she would think about it. I am a complete wreck.

[avlena]

After a pleasant week filled with some good times, my fiancee came home from work Sunday and said that when she is away she cannot help but think of the problems that we have had in our relationship. She then moved out. I love her more than anything and am still trying to work things out. She hasn't been very receptive the past couple days, asking me to not visit her at her work or home. I have asked her if she would consider dating me again, like earlier in our relationship....she said she would think about it. I am a complete wreck.

that sucks :( well, i know it's not much comfort, but at least she recognized now that she had doubts, as opposed to after the wedding. did she at least tell you what problems you had in the relationship, so you could work on them?

[mcs328]

Well that sucks. I and I'm sure you are wondering wth happened all of the sudden.

[adjaw]

that sucks :( well, i know it's not much comfort, but at least she recognized now that she had doubts, as opposed to after the wedding. did she at least tell you what problems you had in the relationship, so you could work on them?

Yes we did discuss them, and yes we were working on them last week. We had great communication and good times together. She even told me that she saw a great improvement. And then Sunday without warning she just came home and told me she is moving out.

[Lolita]

Wow, that's awful. I'm sorry to hear that.
Something must have happened for her to make such a rash decision without talking it out first...

[DarkFury]

Wow... a "second chance".... to run like hell... :heh:

(I know it hurts, but honestly, it might be for the better if things weren't going right... Better to know now than later.... trust me. )

[Grimm]

If she is unwilling to discuss the problems I would guess she has already found another solution...
So, where is she moving to?

[adjaw]

If she is unwilling to discuss the problems I would guess she has already found another solution...
So, where is she moving to?

Back in with her parents. I still want to be with her. I love her more than anything.

[Grimm]

Did her parents disaprove?

[gpsgurl]

I'd have to agree with the advice to let her go. It's the only thing you really can do. People can't always be as honest as they should be and until they get to that point it's pretty hard to have a good relationship.

Dating her might work, but you should also date other people so all your eggs aren't in that one basket. It'll help you get perspective on what you really need from her.

I've wasted too many years (and I mean YEARS) of my life waiting for people and chasing after them. I made it too easy on them and they kept me around. All for nothing and in the long run I realized they weren't right for me either. We grow, we change. If we waste our time chasing someone, we tend to forget to grow and what's the point of that then?

[mcs328]

I've wasted too many years (and I mean YEARS) of my life waiting for people and chasing after them. I made it too easy on them and they kept me around. All for nothing and in the long run I realized they weren't right for me either. We grow, we change. If we waste our time chasing someone, we tend to forget to grow and what's the point of that then?

Welcome to the forums!! I think the last sentence is important since I've made that mistake way back when. Since then I aspired to become a better person for my own sake not to fit some mold someone else wants.

How old are you and what's the age difference? If you're under 22-ish I'd say try again one time after a week then move on. You're too young to put up with long drawn out drama and like gpsgurl said you can end up wasting years of your life. If you're over 25 and you've been dating/engaged a while then try at least 3 times spread out over a few weeks so you both have time to think it through. Could be cold feet? The pickings are slim as you get older. :P

[angl2b]

what made her suddenly make such a move without talking it out?? I can't help but wonder if something happened.

I am sorry that it happened to you. Letting go is always hardest. But sometimes it is good to hold out and wait too - just know that either way - be prepared for the worst.

[adjaw]

I know I'll get reamed when I say this, but there is a 20 year age difference.
This started months back when she became friends with someone from a job she no longer works at. He was interested in her romantically, but she said no. I was never told about him. One day about six weeks ago I grabbed her cell phone to get numbers of her friends to invite them to a surprise birthday party I was planning next week as a matter of fact. I saw text messages with this guy giving directions to our house for the next morning. When I came home I asked her what she did that day, and she said doctors appt., school, then work. I let it go for a few days then couldnt take it anymore so I told her. At first she denied doing anything, then finally after much badgering she admitted he came over that morning, only because she wanted to show him our new place, then they both ran to the grocery store. After that my suspicions got the best of me and I checked her calls made/received on the phone. They talked alot. Everytime I cornered her about talking to him she lied and lied, then admitted. She said she lied to hide it and not make me angry. Which would make me more suspicious, and the cycle snowballed. On two occasions she said she would not talk or see him anymore. More lies. It continued. Unfortunately I always managed to bring up the situations where she lied and situations with him because it was so pressing on my mind. This depressed her. She was going to counseling for the lying and deceit. But recently I found out she hasn't been to a session for quite awhile. We agreed to give each other the best effort we could last week, and it was actually wonderful. We communicated great, loved each other, did new things together. I showed her I could let go of the suspicion. Unfortunately I very recently discoverd she lied about going to some of her classes, and lied about going to counseling during that week. Anyway, back to the great week, this past Sunday we had a great morning, and then she went to work, when she returned, she told me that when she was away she couldn't help but think of the bad times and that I would somehow always be suspicious of her, and she moved out. I want to continue dating, she said she will think about it. Late late last night I called her and woke her up and while talking, I asked her what she did that night. She told me she had dinner with her family, and opened presents for her brother's birthday. I asked her if she saw "him" last night. She said absolutely not. But I DO know he was there at her house until late.
I just wish she would be honest with me, I've told her it would make this very easy if she told me she had romantic feelings for him. But she adamantly denies having any feelings for him. She says they are just friends. If she didn't want to see me anymore why wouldn't she just say they are seeing each other? For some strange stupid reason I still believe her, and I still want to be with her. I am a complete wreck everyday here at work, and all night at home.

I really do truly love her, and I thought she would be the one I'd spend the rest of my life with.

[angl2b]

First off - my heart goes out to you. I am truly sorry to hear this is happening to you and that she has done this.

Second - 20 years difference is a pretty big difference - I am guessing you are the older one and she is the younger one?

Okay - This is purely my opinion only when I type the rest out.

I truly think that even if you love her - all those lies and deceit she has been doing can't possibly a good indicator for a happy marriage. Especially if it is more than one occassion and over a guy. Right there sends a lot of warning bells. Despite the love you feel and harbor for her - she obviously feels guilt. The guilt of knowing you love her and that you will be hurt and the guilt led to the lies. She needs to be able to just open up and forget about the guilt and tell the truth something that she is not ready for. The breaking off the engagement and taking time off is just a way for her to ease her conscious. If you two are technically not together anymore and she gives it time then confesses to you she has feelings for the other guy and the whole sob story (I am purely assuming) that she couldn't help it - it just happened - she can't but feel that way and end it for good with her concious in tact. The sad thing is in my eyes - if she was seeing a guy behind your back and lying and if everything was innocent then honestly she should have no reason to ever lie in the first place (unless you are an abusive person she is just scared of) - so in my eyes I feel like she was cheating on you (then again a lot of people would probably think that I am being extreme).
I think it is going to be a long healing process and easier said then done to just walk away from all of this and start anew. It's going to take a lot of time and support from friends and family. In the long run I think if you two got married and this continued - I can't imagine it to be a happy ending.
Like I said this is purely my opinion - so please don't stone me to death for it. :(

[adjaw]

First off - my heart goes out to you. I am truly sorry to hear this is happening to you and that she has done this......Like I said this is purely my opinion - so please don't stone me to death for it. :(

Thank you for your words.
In the back of my mind I do have random thoughts that she does have feelings for this guy. Although I still believe her when she says there is nothing going on. She actually called me this morning on her way to school, and said IF we started dating again it would be with no commitments....just like when we started. She said if other opportunities open up and she wants to persue them, she will. When she said that my heart dropped again. It hurt so much.
I really do not know if she can be totally honest with me again. For most people that would be enough to wash their hands of the relationship. But, me being dense, and totally in love with her still, I want to try.


She is a huge Harry Potter fan, and is going to the midnight opening of the movie tomorrow night. Last week she reserved 8 tickets for her friends and us. I asked her this morning if I could still share something important to her like the Harry Potter movie. She told me no, she and I would be tense throught the movie. I asked her if "he" was going. She said she did ask him, but he didn't say yes or no. Again, my heart dropped knowing that she asked him instead of me.

[angl2b]

it is a natural feeling to want to give it your all especially if you are in love. After all that's the best part of love through thick and thin and all that lovey dovey feeling. But on the other hand - can you live with that thought gnawing at you for the rest of your lives? She obviously is trying to keep you until someone better comes a long... after all she isn't going to not jump at the opportunity if it presents itself - isn't that what she said? I think as hard as it is to let go - it is the hardest thing to do when it comes to love. All that energy, time, emotions devoted to one person - suddenly taken away. But time does heal the hurt as cliche as it sounds.

[brainsmile]

Cut the cord man.

[Cubsfan]

But I DO know he was there at her house until late.

Not sure this means, but make sure that you don't hang around her house all the time or anything. That's not going to make her feel any differently.

[DarkFury]

Man... from the sounds of the full story above.... it sounds as if that fish is cooked...

Honestly, spare yourself even more pain and just move on... It really doesn't look like any good is gonna come of this.

[mcs328]

Oh snap! I can gloss over the 20 years difference so I'm not really going to ream you over this one if she's over 18 but the constant lying? C'mon man...friends are friends but look at the drama she has to do to cover it up. You can't escape the feeling and I'm sure she can't take the stress of worrying what she should do to cover it up. If it were me, I drop her.

On the other hand and I don't mean to sound insulting and I'm a jerk for even saying it, you ain't getting any younger and the pool on available females in your age range steadily decreases. So I can see the...hmm...what's the word...fascination?...pros?...of trying to get back with someone who is 2 decades younger than you are because she can me mentally at your age level so you mesh very well together. However the lying stuff...that's so high school/college maturity...do you really want that drama?

[adjaw]

...do you really want that drama?

I thought she was the one.....we really did mesh well together on many many things. I am willing to forget the past, but from what she says, she cannot.

[zero2dash]

I've dealt with a woman that wrecked my life before so I can somewhat relate to your problem. Unfortunately, my answer is not good news. :(

Move on...seriously. It hurts to be without her but you'll get over her and find someone else that won't lie to you and won't mess around with your mind, heart, and emotions. Whether or not she actually cheated is beside the point; she's clearly lied to you on numerous occasions and that's definitely not a good thing - I wouldn't trust her at all at this point because she's lied so much. She sounds like she doesn't know what to do and/or can't make up her mind who she wants or what she wants, so if you sit around waiting for her you may end up being "passed on" and then you will have just wasted all of your time.

There's good women out there; it's hard to believe in this day and age but there are good people out there (both men and women). Don't go nuts and go lookin' for a girl while you're on the rebound though 'cause you'll probably end up with even more problems. Take a break...spend some time with your guy friends and get your mind off of this mess. Go out, watch ESPN at the bar, have a shot...whatever. Do whatever it takes to make the time fly by and help keep your mind off her and before you know it, everything will be ok. But I definitely think you need a break to let yourself love yourself again and not depend on someone else. And I definitely think (again) that you should leave her by the wayside and just move on. Again, she's lied several times to you so I'd take every word out of her mouth as a spoonful of BS. If she hasn't cheated on you already, well I can almost guarantee you that she won't be faithful in the future if she's (possibly) screwing around with someone else behind your back.

My motto is - only people who do "bad" things keep secrets. She lied to you about him because (obviously) she didn't want you to find out what she was doing, and from that you can take into consideration that she was probably up to no good and (obviously) doing things she didn't want you to see or find out about. I myself would consider it cheating (just based off her lies + the speculation of it all) and the rule stands true - once a cheater, always a cheater.

I wish you the best of luck & hope that you have a speedy "healing/recovery". :hug:

[angl2b]

takes two to make a successful relationship - takes one to destroy it all.
You can cry, beg, change your ways, crawl your way back to her, trust her blindly, hand over your heart with a knife stabbed in it to her and she can very well take it. But in the end is that what you want?
Given all that we have said and the things you have written I see only one big problem - the same problem that all those have been in love and hurt type problem. The letting go and facing the reality that maybe just maybe the love died a while ago and it may just have been a temporary thing. We all (I think) have been there - love a person so much that it hurts - the thought mere thought of losing the person crumbles us - but when the person is deceiving us and we are blindly accepting it - that's like a man abusing his wife and the wife stays and the reason simply is - I love him. If we think the woman is crazy for not leaving the husband - and cut her losses in that situation. Why would we think any less when its an emotional deceit/abuse you are accepting?

[zero2dash]

I wanted to add (to what I said and what angl2b said) -
the girl I messed around with (or, rather I should say "wasted my time with") was an ex I was steady with while a teenager. I've known the girl for 12 years (I'm 27 now, I met her when I was 15). We dated for about 3 yrs off and on, but remained friends after the last break up.

I wanted her back so bad that I spent as much time with her as possible even though I was only a "friend" and she treated me like I was "a little more" than that...she talked about guys she had slept with the day before, etc. all kinds of messed up stuff, to me - her ex but now "just a friend". I kept coming around and spending time with her and let her know all the time that I wanted to be with her and she always said "no" but acted like I was her 'part time boyfriend'; when it was convenient for her, I was her bf, but whenever I wanted the feelings/emotion attached to that title, she gave me the cold shoulder. While I hung out with this girl, she had ruined several of my relationships because she always acted like we'd get back together, so I'd break up with my current gf at the time and go back to her, only to get screwed around with again.

She turned me down time after time, and eventually I got sick of it and started distancing myself from her. She'd screw up and piss me off, and 6 months would pass and I wouldn't talk to her. This happened about 3 times, and each time it happened, more time would pass that I wouldn't talk to her. (First it was 6 mos, then 9 mos, then a year) At one point she even told me that my ex gf Valerie sounded sweet and "I oughta give her a call". After the last straw, I sent her an email and told her off. I said everything I had bottled up inside of me and ripped her a new one and told her how much she hurt me and how much I now hated her and didn't want anything to do with her.

4 years later -
I've been married to Valerie for 1 yr, we've been a couple for 3 years, and (on Dec. 4) our daughter Chloe turns 1. Valerie gave me faith in women again; she treats me like a god (and I in turn treat her like my goddess). I always thought I was in love with Christina (stupid ex I talked about above), but when Valerie and I got together again, I fell in love with her and it was different this time around; the "love" was much more powerful and I knew that this was truly love and what I had felt for Christina before was either puppy love or just BS emotions. I think about Christina every once in awhile just because I hope she's doing ok, but I haven't talked to her since I sent her that email a little more than 4 yrs ago. I know she regrets letting me go and I hope she enjoyed her wakeup call when I went off on her since she always told me that no matter what happened she knew I'd marry her and always come back to her...heh heh heh don't think so. I find great happiness in the fact that she pushed me away and even recommended I go back into Valerie's loving arms...which is what I did and I've never looked back since, and now Christina will never get the chance to have me by her side again. :laugh:

*****

I guarantee you that you will find someone who will treat you just as good. Keep your head up and straighten your own life/heart out, and the perfect person will come along soon enough. Don't settle for any less (ie by going back to this girl). :)

[adjaw]

..... Take a break...spend some time with your guy friends and get your mind off of this mess. Go out, watch ESPN at the bar, have a shot...whatever. Do whatever it takes to make the time fly by and help keep your mind off her and before you know it, everything will be ok.....:


I wish I could actually get away and do some of those things. Another part of this ordeal is that we moved together into a new place a few months ago. And along with that came a much higher rent. We purchased all new furniture for all the rooms, new electronic equipment including a big flat screen. Also earlier this year I purchased a new car. So before I even buy gas for my car or food for me, with just the aforementioned bills and incidental bills, I am about $400 in the hole each month. Unfortunately I have no computer at home anymore, I sold mine when we moved in together because she just got a brand new system, so I'll have to replace that. I'm looking for a part-time job, and also looking to sell some things. Probably also cashing in a life insurance policy I have, and a relatively small 401K from an old job.
So as far as going out and kicking back at the bar.....not gonna happen.

[angl2b]

was it completely under your name for everything? The new system for the computer - who purchased it? If you did - get it back from her - the ring too. As harsh as it sounds - I know you love her - but take it all back. All your furniture and everything bought together - if she has her name on anything with you - make her pay HALF. Regardless if she is using it or not - not your problem. Your problem is the debt she has helped you acrewed.

[zero2dash]

I wish I could actually get away and do some of those things. Another part of this ordeal is that we moved together into a new place a few months ago. And along with that came a much higher rent. We purchased all new furniture for all the rooms, new electronic equipment including a big flat screen. Also earlier this year I purchased a new car. So before I even buy gas for my car or food for me, with just the aforementioned bills and incidental bills, I am about $400 in the hole each month. Unfortunately I have no computer at home anymore, I sold mine when we moved in together because she just got a brand new system, so I'll have to replace that. I'm looking for a part-time job, and also looking to sell some things. Probably also cashing in a life insurance policy I have, and a relatively small 401K from an old job.
So as far as going out and kicking back at the bar.....not gonna happen.

I would definitely sell a lot of those things, not only for the fact that you don't have the money to afford them on your own, but also for the fact that they'll only remind you of her (which will make the whole ordeal that much harder to get through/over with). If you can get out of the lease, do so; I'd immediately tell the landlord/leasing office that she left you and you'll struggle with the rent money and they might give you a break. If you have to break the lease and pay a fine, do it - it'll still save you money in the long run.

Even if you don't go out to a bar per se, spend time with friends who will support you and help you 'center' your life again. You need positive reinforcement and good times, not times alone to think about her and be sad.

edit like angel said, get the engagement ring back and sell it. I watch enough Judge Judy (with my wife :)) to know that an engagement ring is the property of the man, by law, until the couple is married...if the relationship ends prior to the marriage, then the engagement ring is to be returned to the man *by law* immediately. Sell the ring and use those funds either to help yourself out of the hole or for moving costs.

[adjaw]

was it completely under your name for everything? The new system for the computer - who purchased it? If you did - get it back from her - the ring too. As harsh as it sounds - I know you love her - but take it all back. All your furniture and everything bought together - if she has her name on anything with you - make her pay HALF. Regardless if she is using it or not - not your problem. Your problem is the debt she has helped you acrewed.

The computer was hers, she got it as a gift right before we moved in together. She took that and her personal belongings. That's all. Everything else is in my name. I had the 830 credit rating. She didn't have any established credit, so yes, everything was in my name. As far as the ring, she did leave that, and I know that you get roughly a little less than half of what you originally paid for it when you resell it....if you're lucky.

[angl2b]

you know I think your reaction is probably - if you got her the ring there's a lot of sentiments attached to it - after all you love her therefore you picked out the ring that would represent your future so to speak together. but sentiments aside - reality is and as hard as it is to swallow - you need the money - not that you care any less for her - but you need the money - financially you are strapped - in the hole according to you - so you need to sell it. Unless she is giving you the money to pay for the ring in full - cash - sell it. Is the ring even paid off???

[cheapie]

dude....there is no way this is going to work out. she's continuing to lie because she doesn't want to come out and hurt you with the truth. but she doesn't like you enough to stop seeing that guy....or whomever else interests her. this has likely been building and happening for a while and you just now found out.

it totally sounds like she is trying to escape the commitment and isn't ready. jmho of course.

[zero2dash]

The computer was hers, she got it as a gift right before we moved in together. She took that and her personal belongings. That's all. Everything else is in my name. I had the 830 credit rating. She didn't have any established credit, so yes, everything was in my name. As far as the ring, she did leave that, and I know that you get roughly a little less than half of what you originally paid for it when you resell it....if you're lucky.

I'd either try to return the items (if you went through a rent-to-own place) or sell them outright (if you used CC's) and take whatever money you get to help plug the "financial hole" you're in. As for the ring & getting half (or less) - it's better than nothing. Plus (same with everything else) - the longer you see anything that she used or owned, the longer you will suffer over her.

[esme]

my advice .....please don't end up like this!! do not let love blind you

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93973

[brainsmile]

how much was the ring?

[adjaw]

how much was the ring?

It's not a huge ring, just under a half carat with an 18k cathedral setting. She has tiny hands and anything bigger would have looked strange. It is a very good quality stone though. Total was just over $1500.

[angl2b]

if you look for a private seller in your area - independent jeweler I mean you might be able to get a better sell value? Ebay - you can write your story and have someone buy it and see how it goes? Or check the independent jeweler out first and then sell on Ebay?

[angl2b]

btw - how are you feeling today?

[adjaw]

btw - how are you feeling today?

like crap

[angl2b]

:hug: it will get better over time..

[adjaw]

Yesterday............


So she is in the first semester of a 2-year program for a secondary education teaching degree. One of the classes she is in requires her to go to a high school and observe a class for a time, then give one lesson while being observed by someone who passes/fails her. If she passes she can continue the program. Yesterday was the day she was to give the lesson, she failed. Right after she left she called crying and distraught over failing. We talked all the while she was driving home. Even after everything that’s transpired I tried to comfort her. I told her she could take the class over again next semester. She said she's going to lose her scholarship because of this and cannot go back to school. She was talking about quitting school, etc. I calmed her down a tiny bit. She got home and called me back again shortly. She was still crying and distraught, she said she was going to call in to work and take the afternoon off, hoping to just curl up in bed and be sad. Her back has been hurting her lately because she is not comfortable on her mattress anymore, just the one we had. I offered her the chance to come over and nap awhile, I told her I would not bother her with any discussions, as a matter of fact I would be out for a couple hours returning some recently purchased items from Best Buy and running another errand. She said she would think about it and call me shortly. I told her I would wait at home for her call and to let her in and then I would leave, she said she would call. Well, silly me waited all afternoon, into the early evening. Then I decided to go to bed. A few minutes after I laid down she called and apologized, she fell asleep from the time she got off the phone until then. We talked more about her college situation and then a small amount about our situation. She said she called me first above anyone else, even "him", because I was her best friend and she’s still in love with me. We talked for about 90 minutes, then she said she was going back to sleep.
I want us to reconcile, I know I can put aside all the bad crap that’s happened and work on a bright future, but I don’t know if she can stop the lying. She’s gone to counseling for help, but it hasn’t helped. And I’m sure she’s completely stopped the counseling sessions now. I still believe her that nothing’s happened with anyone else. I am stupid because I don’t know why she has to lie and hide things from the man she says she loves, and the one she used to want to be with for the rest of her life.

I'm still sitting here hoping she calls and invites me to the midnight Harry Potter movie. I know you all think that's stupid.

[angl2b]

not stupid - but extremely blind.
I think you need to just go out for a walk - go to a bookstore get a god book to read. Are you at work? If so - keep busy. Why are you waiting like her puppy? She's not your master - she doesn't need to come home give you fresh bowl of water, replenish your food - take you out for walks. I know you keep saying you love her and that you want to be with her. She in turns takes advantage of that fact and keeps you on your toes - in her back burner until she figures out who else is out there that she wants - if it is successful or not then either ditch you for good or keep you. So you insist on waiting on her and be second best to whoever. Why? Why do you torment yourself so?

[adjaw]

Maybe I'm waiting for her to realize that she's made a big mistake. According to everyone I'm foolish for thinking that.
After talking with her last night for 90 minutes, I actually felt somewhat better since she left Sunday. After the call I felt good enough to try to eat something. All I've had since Sunday is coffee at work. I tried some soup on Tuesday but I couldn't keep it down.
I have faith and hope. I can't just turn it off like a switch. Sorry

maybe I need to change my forum name to blind_fool

[zero2dash]

not stupid - but extremely blind.
I think you need to just go out for a walk - go to a bookstore get a god book to read. Are you at work? If so - keep busy. Why are you waiting like her puppy? She's not your master - she doesn't need to come home give you fresh bowl of water, replenish your food - take you out for walks. I know you keep saying you love her and that you want to be with her. She in turns takes advantage of that fact and keeps you on your toes - in her back burner until she figures out who else is out there that she wants - if it is successful or not then either ditch you for good or keep you. So you insist on waiting on her and be second best to whoever. Why? Why do you torment yourself so?

100% agreed...sorry adjaw

I'd like to say first and foremost - if you could work it out with her and everything be fixed and whatnot - then I would wish you the best of luck and absolutely say "go for it".

But -
the problem is - (from what you've said) she sounds like a pathological liar. She's lied to you about all these things, this other guy, the phone calls, etc. and that's not excusable. I realize that you love this girl and you've spent a lot of time with her, but think about this for awhile - you've obviously built a base/a relationship with her...and this base was just shattered by lies. Who's to say how long the lying has been going on? It's conceivable that your entire relationship has been built and cemented in lies (on her part) meaning your future as a couple does not look good.

First and foremost, trust has to be established. Now, I can't speak for you, but I know if it was me - I wouldn't trust her with anything right now. I'd take every word out of her mouth as lies. I hate to be harsh like that but that's the way I feel and (believe it or not) I'm saying this because I'm trying to give you my opinion and help you avoid any heartache or aggravation down the road. Obviously the decision is yours to make, because you're the one who's impacted the most by it - not us, we're just a bunch of G|A posters. :) I just would hate to see you back here again down the road saying "she did it again" or something...whether it's 1 month, 1 year, or 10 years. I had to learn the hard way with my ex; I wouldn't take no for an answer and I put her feelings first over my own, and that's obviously not the healthy choice to make. She did a lot of the same stuff to me that this girl is doing to you...she made me feel wanted 1/2 of the time and the rest of the time she treated me like a piece of meat that she could throw out and always get back later on when it was convenient for her. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope you can learn from my mistake; if I live the rest of my life and give this same advice to people in the same predicament and they pick the road that I didn't choose, they'll avoid 4+ years of pain. I'm hoping that you do the same... :(

I personally think any extra contact from her will just leave you in this "stupor", or better yet, "period of being stagnant" where you sit idle and don't really make any progress towards making yourself feel better. Now, you can say "if we get back together, I'll be happy again" but to that I'd respond 'for how long though?'.

Again, I wish you the best of luck and I hope that (whatever happens), it makes you the happiest. I just think (along with many of my fellow G|A'ers) that you'd be better off starting fresh with someone else and rebuilding yourself back to a "whole person" again. :thumb:

[kgsilvas]

Now that more of the story has come out, all I can say is good thing it ended before you got married. Many relationship issues can be worked out if both people care enough and the age difference doesn't have to be an obstacle, but extensive/compulsive lying cannot be overcome by the honest party. The lies and inherent distrust from the honest partner either erode a previously established trust level in the relationship or it prevents it from ever being established.

Lying is a way of life for some people, and sadly you can't change that. As far as waiting for her to realize that she's made a big mistake, that's wishful thinking on your part. She's probably only sorry that you caught her in the lies. You really need to move on.

[Burzhui]

sorry to hear that man, but it looks like since she returned the ring it's over man :(

Btw i am not sure why the ring was so cheap, but you can easily get the same ammount for it. You just have to know where to sell it. Diamonds went up in price in august

[angl2b]

honestly - we can all give our opinions until our fingers fall off - our mouths turn blue but the ultimate decision is yours. I feel that you want someone to say yes what you are doing is great - this love conquers all thing. But the sad reality is we can't. Not because we don't understand. Not because we think that we know all. But because we have all been there at one time or another. Granted you can give a million reasons why you love her and how we don't understand what you two have been through together or all the wonderful things you two meant to each other, etc. Yes - true as it all may be and as much as you like to give a million excuses to stay and wait - that is up to you. But know this - if you re read all that you have written what eats you up is still that same tiny factor that will determine the relationship. Her Lies - which leads to your mistrust. But of course its a SMALL factor right? So small that you keep writing that simple fact. That small thing that is so small it eats you up inside. But hey what do we know? We're only listening to your story and empathsizing with you and trying to give you moral support. I mean after all we all have (I think) been through something similar to relate and know the patterns of WANTING to stay and wait and the holding out wishing longfully for the best.

If you truly want to stay and wait - it is your choice. We all give you (at least I do) our best wishes and hope you don't fall any further and hurt anymore.

My 2 cents - but what do I know? I am an outsider reading a story. :shrug:

[tupacboy]

sorry to hear about all this...but be strong... she obviously isn't the one... and if she has a cheating heart from the beginning... it can only get worse... there's plenty of women out there that won't be cheaters... trust me... i was close to the same spot you are in...

[esme]

My story is similar to yours ....on some levels

I met my ex when I was in high school. We started dating and moved in together when I was about 20, he was 24. Everything was amazing the first 2 yrs and at that point I had known him for about 5yrs. He was romantic, a great friend, my family loved him ....he was an all around amazing person!

BUT things started changing after that 2nd year ....I once heard his voicemails and there was one w/a girl saying "I know you can't talk right now, but call me later" the message was left at about 12:15-30 which is when I go home for lunch. The reason I listened to that voicemail was because we had gotten new phones and he wanted me to set it up for him. I've never been the type to go through his stuff and check his phone for calls or anything like that. I asked him about it and he said he didn't know what I was talking about ....so I let it go. Another time he left w/his cousin and got home after 7am ....I kept calling him ...worried. He said that he was w/his cousin in his hotel room because his cousin didn't want to be alone .....by this point I'm thinking ..."is he gay?" ....no joke! I'm actually thinking that. He apologized and said that it would never happen again, he would get home early. But now I was starting to be paranoid. Another voicemail was left on his phone it said "I tried to call your cousin so he could call you, but he's not answering ...call me!" by this point I am extremely upset and tired of the lies ....I ask him to leave.

He leaves and moves in with another cousin (he's married but he's a perv!) We don't talk for about 1-2 weeks ...don't quite remember ....after that he starts calling me, saying how much he misses me, loves me ....blah blah blah! So there I go again and take him back because I honestly loved him so much. I wanted to give him a second chance and be there for him because in his words "he needs me" .....By that time I'm in debt, close to $1000 for my cell phone bill, which more than half of that was his alone. He doesn't want to help me pay because he says that I turned off the phone and kicked him out.

I let that go .....we're engaged! ....He bought me a beautiful ring but after some time we start fighting about everything, I no longer trust him. If he went to the store and took forever to get back I would start calling his cell phone. He then tried to turn things on me and say that I was cheating on him w/the guys from work ....my friends from high school ....anyone he could think of I was cheating w/them! So now I'm the liar and the cheater. All this happened within a few months. And approx 6 months after we're engaged I find out that I'm pregnant ....we were both excited. (BTW, the pregnancy wasn't planned ....when I was younger I was told I wouldn't be able to have kids because of an accident ...so it's totally unexpected)

Down the road we have an argument, he calls someone on the phone and leaves. I'm sitting in my living room and heard a car stop right in front of our house ....it was him w/his ex .....he hugged her and at that point I stepped away from the window so I'm not sure if they kissed or whatnot .....I told myself that that was it! ....no more. I can't let somebody walk on me to this point and be "ok" with it! I told him it was over and to please find somewhere else to live. I felt bad because of our daughter and he told me that we should stay together because of her ....but I couldn't .....I'd rather her see us separate than see us fighting and hurting each other.

it's hard/sometimes impossible to change somebody no matter how hard you try! ....don't think that you can do it overnight ....don't fool yourself. I gave him some of the best years of my life and he didn't appreciate it! I'm sure he loved me but he just didn't know how to treat me or respect me. I loved him so much that I gave him so many opportunities .....but I no longer love him. I see him as the father of my beautiful little girl and I have respect for him but he made sure that any love I had for him disappeared w/his lies.

So even if you do take her back ....TRUST ME ....things will not be the same. Love is NOT all you need to make a relationship work ....you need respect, loyalty .....and much more.

[Jihforce]

Wow...i actually took the time to read your story, my sympathy goes out to you my friend. Here's my thought tho...

Chronic lying is not something someone wakes up one day and decides they won't lie anymore. Lying only snowballs into cheating and who knows what else. Playing detective will take a lot out of you. You will be a wreck emotionally because knowing someone you love lies to you, hurts.
You can't sit and wait for her calls, its depressing. You can't burn your day waiting for her calls. Each day you waste waiting for her calls, is a day lost in your life. Is this how you plan on spending your existance? The best advice I have for you is Fix Yourself. Don't site around waiting for someone else to correct their mistakes. Your love for her has blinded you, you chose not to take the hard way because hoping she will turn around is more gratifying. It is not. Gotta stop hoping, gotta stop calling, the only that can change at this point, its you. This will only make you stronger, and help you deal with other hurdles in life.
Good luck, and if you feel down, come back and post. Plenty of good folks out here offer great advice.

[angl2b]

My story is similar to yours ....on some levels

I met my ex when I was in high school. We started dating and moved in together when I was about 20, he was 24. Everything was amazing the first 2 yrs and at that point I had known him for about 5yrs. He was romantic, a great friend, my family loved him ....he was an all around amazing person!

BUT things started changing after that 2nd year ....I once heard his voicemails and there was one w/a girl saying "I know you can't talk right now, but call me later" the message was left at about 12:15-30 which is when I go home for lunch. The reason I listened to that voicemail was because we had gotten new phones and he wanted me to set it up for him. I've never been the type to go through his stuff and check his phone for calls or anything like that. I asked him about it and he said he didn't know what I was talking about ....so I let it go. Another time he left w/his cousin and got home after 7am ....I kept calling him ...worried. He said that he was w/his cousin in his hotel room because his cousin didn't want to be alone .....by this point I'm thinking ..."is he gay?" ....no joke! I'm actually thinking that. He apologized and said that it would never happen again, he would get home early. But now I was starting to be paranoid. Another voicemail was left on his phone it said "I tried to call your cousin so he could call you, but he's not answering ...call me!" by this point I am extremely upset and tired of the lies ....I ask him to leave.

He leaves and moves in with another cousin (he's married but he's a perv!) We don't talk for about 1-2 weeks ...don't quite remember ....after that he starts calling me, saying how much he misses me, loves me ....blah blah blah! So there I go again and take him back because I honestly loved him so much. I wanted to give him a second chance and be there for him because in his words "he needs me" .....By that time I'm in debt, close to $1000 for my cell phone bill, which more than half of that was his alone. He doesn't want to help me pay because he says that I turned off the phone and kicked him out.

I let that go .....we're engaged! ....He bought me a beautiful ring but after some time we start fighting about everything, I no longer trust him. If he went to the store and took forever to get back I would start calling his cell phone. He then tried to turn things on me and say that I was cheating on him w/the guys from work ....my friends from high school ....anyone he could think of I was cheating w/them! So now I'm the liar and the cheater. All this happened within a few months. And approx 6 months after we're engaged I find out that I'm pregnant ....we were both excited. (BTW, the pregnancy wasn't planned ....when I was younger I was told I wouldn't be able to have kids because of an accident ...so it's totally unexpected)

Down the road we have an argument, he calls someone on the phone and leaves. I'm sitting in my living room and heard a car stop right in front of our house ....it was him w/his ex .....he hugged her and at that point I stepped away from the window so I'm not sure if they kissed or whatnot .....I told myself that that was it! ....no more. I can't let somebody walk on me to this point and be "ok" with it! I told him it was over and to please find somewhere else to live. I felt bad because of our daughter and he told me that we should stay together because of her ....but I couldn't .....I'd rather her see us separate than see us fighting and hurting each other.

it's hard/sometimes impossible to change somebody no matter how hard you try! ....don't think that you can do it overnight ....don't fool yourself. I gave him some of the best years of my life and he didn't appreciate it! I'm sure he loved me but he just didn't know how to treat me or respect me. I loved him so much that I gave him so many opportunities .....but I no longer love him. I see him as the father of my beautiful little girl and I have respect for him but he made sure that any love I had for him disappeared w/his lies.

So even if you do take her back ....TRUST ME ....things will not be the same. Love is NOT all you need to make a relationship work ....you need respect, loyalty .....and much more.

:agree:
true - so true - don't want to share my heartache with everyone - but I do understand completely.

[zero2dash]

:hug: hugs all around :hug:
As a self-proclaimed "good guy" (but then again my wife humors me and agrees :)) I wish I could clone myself and give my clones out to the broken hearted women of this world. :D

One of the mottos of my life stays true in this whole thread & in the experiences many of us have had...what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. I hated going through some of the rough times in my life in the past (and I'm sure there will be some down the road especially when my daughter grows up and tries to 'rebel') - but those moments are what shaped me to be the person I am today...and I wouldn't want to be any other way.

...another round of hugs please :hug: :)

[esme]

One of the mottos of my life stays true in this whole thread & in the experiences many of us have had...what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.


so true! ....that saying is so true! ....i still have faith in guys ....but now I will be much more careful when choosing! .....ADJAW ...i recommend the same! (that is if you do decide to "step away")

i see now that i am a much better person w/out him .....love should not blind you .....

[Burzhui]

:hug: hugs all around :hug:
As a self-proclaimed "good guy" (but then again my wife humors me and agrees :)) I wish I could clone myself and give my clones out to the broken hearted women of this world. :D

One of the mottos of my life stays true in this whole thread & in the experiences many of us have had...what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. I hated going through some of the rough times in my life in the past (and I'm sure there will be some down the road especially when my daughter grows up and tries to 'rebel') - but those moments are what shaped me to be the person I am today...and I wouldn't want to be any other way.

...another round of hugs please :hug: :)

No it's What doesn't kill us makes our back hurt! :)

[angl2b]

if I didn't step away i wouldn't have met mcs - mcs definitely helped restore my faith in men.
:hug: all around and :cheers: to all those that have loved deeply lost and grew stronger from it. We would not be who we are today if we didn't learn to love with all our beings, lost, walk away from what wasn't right for us and relearn to Love again :love2:

[cheapie]

No it's What doesn't kill us makes our back hurt! :)


:stupid: :heh:



my little piece of advice?

you are looking to become contingency guy. the ONLY chance this relationship has is if she realized she screwed up, apologizes, and changes her ways. and she's not going to if you're a puddle of goo that is going to take anything and everything she dishes out without whimpering.

cut her loose. if she comes back....sweet.


oh, and the bad back bed thing had my bull**** detector going off like crazy.

[esme]

oh, and the bad back bed thing had my bull**** detector going off like crazy.


i think she just wanted you (adjaw) to offer yours to her ..... :shrug:

[cheapie]

me? :confused:

[Grimm]

Cut her loose. Move on. She cheated on you and is not worth having.

[oblongmelon]

20 year difference? You're asking for trouble. Find someone your own age and move on...seriously. IMHO this thread has "sucker" written all over it.

[adjaw]

oh, and the bad back bed thing had my bull**** detector going off like crazy.

esme: "i think she just wanted you (adjaw) to offer yours to her .."



actually she does have back problems......and yes, I did offer her the chance to use it while I was out.........and no, she did not take me up on my offer.

[brainsmile]

I say you go find someone that looks just like her :P

[esme]

esme: "i think she just wanted you (adjaw) to offer yours to her .."



actually she does have back problems......and yes, I did offer her the chance to use it while I was out.........and no, she did not take me up on my offer.


i think she wanted you to offer yours for her to take not just use :shrug:

[adjaw]

i think she wanted you to offer yours for her to take not just use :shrug:

It would not even fit in her bedroom.

[FlyByPoster]

I'm so sorry for you situation and horrible pain, adjaw. I hope things are getting better?

Look, whatever you decide, please just remember that you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT go into a relationship expecting someone to change because you are only dooming yourself and the relationship to failure. You MUST go in accepting everything as-is. You can hope, but don't believe. You cannot change someone. Your love cannot change someone. Only that person can change him/herself and no one else. If the problems the other person presents are things that you honestly feel that you can live with for the rest of your life and will not regret on your deathbed, then go on. BUT if you know that you cannot -- and be honest with yourself! -- then you will only suffer far more than you do now.

I worry that even though you needed her friendship, she refused to be there for you, but when she needed emotional support, she immediately turned to you and expected you to be there. I'm sorry if this pains you, but while you sound very giving and caring, she sounds very selfish to me. That's never an emotionally healthy combination.

Adjaw, I spent 13+ years in a relationship with a guy who was otherwise wonderful, but ultimately we just didn't want the same things out of life. In the end, I realized that this was never going to change and we split. I had hung on for so long, hoping that things would change -- either myself or him -- but they didn't and I finally admitted that they weren't going to. I am now with another wonderful man, but with him, I see a happy and convergent future. I do not regret my decision, even though I am still very good friends with my ex.

Life is too short. Don't do anything that you will regret on your deathbed, because then, it is only you and your God. Not a single other soul will be there to help take the blame, including her.

Good luck, I wish you all the best!

[adjaw]

I'm so sorry for you situation and horrible pain, adjaw. I hope things are getting better?

Things are very slow at work this week, which isn't good because my mind just keeps thinking about what's happened. Alot of the time I have to go to a vacant room and let the tears roll. It sucks. I can't believe this has happened.

[esme]

Things are very slow at work this week, which isn't good because my mind just keeps thinking about what's happened. Alot of the time I have to go to a vacant room and let the tears roll. It sucks. I can't believe this has happened.


has she said anything else? are you guys going to date again?

[adjaw]

has she said anything else? are you guys going to date again?

I haven't heard a word from her since Wednesday, the day she failed that class.

[esme]

I haven't heard a word from her since Wednesday, the day she failed that class.


sorry to hear that .....

if you knew that she was dating this other guy and decided that she wanted to date you again, would you??

[Jihforce]

20 year age gap should tell you a lot tho. seriously. She's definitely not at the same level as you, and probably looking for a cheap thrill instead of someone more committed. Do your best to not let it get to you. Why shed tears for someone that more than likely isn't shedding any tears for you? Not worth it in my opinion. You have to try to live your life to the fullest, enjoy it, have fun. Do not hang out alone of course. Surround yourself with good people, go out, hand out with friends. Not everything you do with friends costs money.
Girlfriends come and go, but true friends never leave you. I think you know she stopped being your friend the day she left the ring on your counter and moved out of that door. I don't think you should be doing her any special favors. It would only rip a bigger whole in your heart.
Friend of mine would always tell this when I was heart broken...."Out of sight, out of mind". It works.

[adjaw]

Friday my company announced it's closing and I will be let go early next month.
My life just gets better and better.

[booger73]

sorry to hear that.. :(

but.. maybe it honestly means time for a new start, somewhere new.. concentrate on yourself and make changes.

I know from personal experience that it isn't easy when you're in that position (having been in it myself).. the only thing i remember is just taking it day by day.. "this too shall pass" so they say.

[angl2b]

Friday my company announced it's closing and I will be let go early next month.
My life just gets better and better.


sorry to hear - but it may be a good fresh start for you.

[kgsilvas]

Maybe you'll meet someone new when you get your new job.

[zero2dash]

Maybe you'll meet someone new when you get your new job.

So true :)
Never say never, adjaw...could definitely happen.
And again...keep in mind...what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. :faint:
Maybe the big man upstairs is setting you up for a new job/new woman 2-in-1 combo. :D
Keep your head up...things'll get better. :hug:

[esme]

Friday my company announced it's closing and I will be let go early next month.
My life just gets better and better.


so sorry to hear that ......but do you think you'll have a hard time fiding a new job?

if not, then i would agree w/everyone else and say that this is your chance to start over

[Jihforce]

Yeah. something else to keep you busy. Probably will help you keep your mind off her and more on you.

[adjaw]

so sorry to hear that ......but do you think you'll have a hard time fiding a new job?

if not, then i would agree w/everyone else and say that this is your chance to start over

Well it took me 10 months to find the job I have now. And for the 3+ years I've been here I have been looking for something else but haven't found anything. I'm kind of in a small niche job market. I do not foresee finding a quick replacement for this job. And I cannot afford any kind of pay cut currently, actually I need a pay raise.

[kgsilvas]

Time for you to move to sunny So Cal!

[Markel]

What kind of field do you work in?

[JackHammer]

I am currently in the same boat as you albeit we're not as serious that we are engaged. My girl has been away for over a month and recently I felt that something was amissed. I confronted her over the phone and needless to say she doesn't want to discuss it over the phone. She won't be back for another 1.5 weeks and I know for the next week or so I'll be in hell. Right now I'm riding this emotional roller coaters with ups and downs. I am expecting the worst and I am realizing that if she wants to break up with me, I'll just let her go. SHe knows how I feel and how I am willing to work at this relationship in order to make everything ok. However, if despite that she wants to end it, I realize that there is no sense in trying to convince, beg or cry my way to change her mind. It'll be an unhealthy relationship if it's going to be onesided. You don't want to be in a relationship where one party has the upperhand. It'll be just delaying the inevitable. You are probably thinking that I can make her love me like the way she use to but honetly, that'll never be. I realize that no matter what you say, it can't make her do anything. That's something she has to realize herself. I know it's hard to believe (trust me I know what I'm talking about) but the feeling will pass and there will be other girls. You just have to get over this hump. I'm in the thick of things and that's what I'm telling myself. I have good friends and they are doing a bang up job at keeping my spirit up during my lows. I think you should do that. Hang with family and friends and only through the passing of time will you feel better.

[fabfore1]

This site might help for a little support & more advice. :hug:

www.soyouvebeendumped.com

[adjaw]

I had vacation scheduled for this week. So I could spend time with her on her birthday yesterday, and all week. Also so we could enjoy Thanksgiving together.
Instead I sit at home and cry and watch television. And yes visit the library to check email once a day now that I have no computer.

[zero2dash]

Things could be worse; be thankful for what you do have. Look at all the people who lost their homes or loved ones in the recent hurricanes. I'm not trying to add more rain to your rained-out parade but things could be a lot worse. You still have a roof over your head, clothes on your back, and food in the fridge, correct? That makes you better off than a whole lot of people in this world.

You'll get over this girl. It's just a girl, man; not the end of the world. May feel like it, but trust me - life goes on.

[adjaw]

I have squat right now and it's only going to get worse when I lose my job next month.

[sixpac shakur]

Things could be worse; be thankful for what you do have. Look at all the people who lost their homes or loved ones in the recent hurricanes. I'm not trying to add more rain to your rained-out parade but things could be a lot worse. You still have a roof over your head, clothes on your back, and food in the fridge, correct? That makes you better off than a whole lot of people in this world.

You'll get over this girl. It's just a girl, man; not the end of the world. May feel like it, but trust me - life goes on.

zero, you've got some excellent points here. Keep in mind you cannot help those who don't want to be helped.

[angl2b]

Keep in mind you cannot help those who don't want to be helped.
:agree:

[Cubsfan]

Ok, I'll say it. Dude, life sucks sometimes. Sitting around feeling depressed doesn't exactly make it better. Instead of spending all your time feeling sorry for yourself, start working. Get a part time job. Start looking for a replacement job. Do SOMETHING productive! YOU are responsible for making your life better.

[esme]

you can't expect for things to fix themselves or for everything to be put in place and served to you in a silver plate just b/c you're going through a rough patch w/this girl ........you need to lift up your head, get out and try hard at making things better.

[Jihforce]

Its one thing to feel sad, but to let depression consume you, that's just plain wrong. Self-pity will get you no where, start picking up the pieces and give your self a big kick in the @$$ and start looking for a new job or something. Do something with your time instead of sulk. I refuse to believe you're just going to let a girl that is a chronic lier (maybe even a cheater by now) ruin your life.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I've been there and dug myself out of it, and I fail to believe you can't do the same. It is obvious this woman is not worth what you're going thru. You just have to see it.

[Butch]

Alright dude, I'm not going to pretend to be an authority on the **** you're going through . . . happily, I can say that I've never lost something as painfully . . . but then again, I've never had something I COULD lose that painfully . . . THAT is disappointing . . . but I have no doubt that will change . . .

Anywho, I will share a bit of wisdom that that stems from a very strange place - economics.

It's strange to think of economics as a sort of brilliant strategy for personal situations in life, but here goes . . .

Economics teaches you that you cannot change what has happened in the past. You can, however, change things in the long-term. Look to the past only as a lesson to learn for the future. Do not dwell on the past unless it is so that you learn to make sure you do not repeat the same mistakes - otherwise your reflections will only hinder you.

Keep in mind that full opportunity for change can only come in the long-run. In the short-term, however, there are things you can do to make yourself feel better and put yourself in a position to realize the best results in the long run.

In a case like this? Short-term . . . take good care of yourself. Watch what you eat . . . exercise . . . read . . . be healthier and invigorate your mind and body. It's incredible the kind of stress-relieving and positive feelings that can come from a run or from doing anything that makes you feel as though you are doing something truly GOOD for yourself . . . it's all very inexpensive, as well . . . you're not costing yourself anything to do it . . .

Every moment you spend doing this stuff that is good for you is a moment you aren't doing something destructive . . . thinking about her, etc. . . . and each moment you are doing stuff that is good for you now is leading towards the long-term goal, whatever your long-term goal may be . . .

In setting expectations for the long-term goal, I would suggest making sure that it does NOT involve HER . . . she's in the past . . . learn from the experience and don't repeat it . . .

Oh yeah . . . the economics also teaches that by virtue of the fact that you live in Chicago, USA and have a roof over your head . . . in many ways, no matter what happens to you . . . losing love or losing a job . . . you are still luckier than 95-99% of the population of the world. It's hard to feel bad for yourself when you realize you are still luckier than 19 of 20 or even 99 of 100 people in the world . . .

Just a few thoughts . . .

[adjaw]

As of last night we are completely done.

[mcs328]

As of last night we are completely done.

hooray? Don't dwell on it too long. Start looking for a new job ASAP. You're romantic/social life you can put on hold but you need to get financially stable and have a roof over your head PRONTO!

Good luck and I hope things turn up for ya :smash:

[esme]

As of last night we are completely done.


How are you holding up? Any luck w/your job hunting?

[Jihforce]

at least you're not floating on limbo anymore. it hurts now, but it will start hurting less as time goes by.
Let us know how your job thing is going.

[adjaw]

I found a pros/cons list that she wrote. It has me and her "friend" on it and the lists below. Funny, she still insists they're just friends and nothing more. The list proves otherwise. Also it turns out that she got him a job at her place of work in September.
One time about a month ago I was talking to her on the phone while she was at work, I heard his name mentioned in the background, I asked her if it was him, she said "No! it's just someone with the same name."
Lies, lies and lies......right up to the end when we talked for the last time Sunday night. I feel sorry for her, she just didn't get it through her skull that I was totally and completely in love with her and would do absolutely anything for her. She is only interested in what pleasures her for the moment. No forethought at all. She's done these things throughout the time we've been together. She cares only for herself and no one else.
I still have love for her, I know you all think I'm stupid, but she came into my life and actually made me feel like I've never felt before. I feel lost without her. Even after all the terrible things she's done and the way she's treated me, I still love her.
All the things that have happened in my life recently make me very depressed. I know you all say "pick yourself up and start over!"..... easier said than done. I've heard all the cliches already, new start, better off without her, it wasn't meant to be etc. etc. I wish the hurt would go away, but it wont. I still cry, at home, at work, in the car. Thoughts of my own conclusion have been with me for a few weeks and don't want to leave. My good buddy is trying to help me with those thoughts. He's been a good friend. I don't know what's going to happen in my future, but I can't handle these feelings and thoughts constantly. I can't just turn them off, I wish I could. She really doesn't realize what she had, maybe it's my own fault, maybe just hers, maybe ours.
I still love her.

[nickel]

if you have thoughts of suicide you should be seeing someone professionally for counseling.
no one is worth killing yourself over.

give yourself time to go through the grieving process of this loss. you will see progression - there is light at the end of the tunnel.

i'm not going to discount the fact that you still love her even after all she's done, because love is that strong. do realize though that you should be the first person in your life, and don't forget to love and care about yourself.

[angl2b]

if you have thoughts of suicide you should be seeing someone professionally for counseling.
no one is worth killing yourself over.

give yourself time to go through the grieving process of this loss. you will see progression - there is light at the end of the tunnel.

i'm not going to discount the fact that you still love her even after all she's done, because love is that strong. do realize though that you should be the first person in your life, and don't forget to love and care about yourself.


:agree:

[kgsilvas]

adjaw: RUN, do not walk, to the nearest phone and call at least one of these numbers.

If you need assistance (24 hrs/day), call:
1-630-482-9699 - Suicide Prevention Service hotline
1-630-482-9696 - Depression Hotline
1-800-SUICIDE (1-800-784-2433) - National Crisis Help Line or
1-800-273-TALK (1-800-273-8255) - Lifeline

These numbers are listed by Suicide Prevention Services in Batavia, IL. They are the primary suicide prevention service for the greater Chicago area.

[zero2dash]

I found a pros/cons list that she wrote. It has me and her "friend" on it and the lists below.

:disa:
What a...<insert derogatory slang anti-woman word>
She's not worth one iota of your time. You spent all of that time with her and this is what she thinks of you...just enough to make a "pros/cons" list on you, a human being whom she (claims) to have once loved.
Again...not worth another second...you are far better off, my friend...FAR better off. Wow...I already thought she was (pretty much) a piece of crap for doing what she did to you, but the fact that this "list" existed makes her even more repulsive to me. I know you still have feelings for her (and it's hard to hear other people badmouth someone you care about...and I apologize)...but...just be glad you're not together and you've started the process of a 'clean' break.


Funny, she still insists they're just friends and nothing more. The list proves otherwise.

Total lie.
:agree: with your point.


Also it turns out that she got him a job at her place of work in September.

I'm sure she probably lives with him too...even if part time. Wow what a piece of work she is...:shake:


One time about a month ago I was talking to her on the phone while she was at work, I heard his name mentioned in the background, I asked her if it was him, she said "No! it's just someone with the same name."
Lies, lies and lies......right up to the end when we talked for the last time Sunday night.

:agree:
Yep...all correct. As the-collective-lot-of-us :) has already said...she can't tell the truth whatsoever.


I feel sorry for her,

I hate to be cruel but I wouldn't feel sorry for her in the least. She deserves everything she gets. You make that bed, you sleep in it (her I mean). Karma will get you your payback...I guarantee it. It worked for me in my case...my ex did me wrong ten times over (figuratively). After the last time I wrote her off/went off on her for hurting me, she wrecked her car and was then hit by a car & had a broken leg a few months later. In addition to that, the only guys that want anything to do with my ex are the few guys that she's slept with that only want her as a piece of tail and even in that case it's disgusting because one of the guys that she still sleeps with is the one that gave her genital warts. (To this day I still thank god that I never slept with her, both before & after she got 'it'.)

Eventually this girl will get hurt herself when someone makes her feel like crap just like she did to you...it'll happen.


she just didn't get it through her skull that I was totally and completely in love with her and would do absolutely anything for her. She is only interested in what pleasures her for the moment. No forethought at all. She's done these things throughout the time we've been together. She cares only for herself and no one else.

She'll learn. Eventually she'll decide that "playing games" isn't all that fun and sleeping around isn't the way to go, and she'll probably come crawling back to you...and at that point it is your ultimate decision to take her back or tell her "no thanks" just like she did to you...(hopefully, you do tell her "no"). It'll happen...she'll settle down and realize she threw away the best thing that ever happened to her.

And yes...I agree...she's 100% selfish. Tack on another reason why you should be glad you're not with her anymore.


I still have love for her, I know you all think I'm stupid, but she came into my life and actually made me feel like I've never felt before. I feel lost without her. Even after all the terrible things she's done and the way she's treated me, I still love her.

You'll find another person that makes these feelings pale in comparison - trust me. Her heart & soul wasn't in it...wait 'til you meet someone who puts their entire 'self' into a relationship with you and then you will realize what love really is.

(Again...worked for me.)


All the things that have happened in my life recently make me very depressed. I know you all say "pick yourself up and start over!"..... easier said than done. I've heard all the cliches already, new start, better off without her, it wasn't meant to be etc. etc. I wish the hurt would go away, but it wont. I still cry, at home, at work, in the car. Thoughts of my own conclusion have been with me for a few weeks and don't want to leave. My good buddy is trying to help me with those thoughts. He's been a good friend. I don't know what's going to happen in my future, but I can't handle these feelings and thoughts constantly. I can't just turn them off, I wish I could. She really doesn't realize what she had, maybe it's my own fault, maybe just hers, maybe ours. I still love her.

Keep on truckin'...you'll make it out ok and it'll make you better because of it. Keep your head up...

And don't blame yourself; none of this was your fault. The only thing that you could ever be faulted on in regards to this girl is if you didn't leave her or you went back to her...and in either case, then you are supplying yourself with your own heartache and emotional pain.

Again...I wish you the best of luck. I'm glad you did what you had to do before more problems sprung up (and caused more pain). Like I said, this initial pain you go through will be over quickly...and at the same time it's much easier to swallow than staying put with her and giving yourself a lifetime's worth of problems.

Things will get better. :)

[mcs328]

reminds me of an epsiode of Friends where Ross comes up with a list of good points/bad points of Rachel.

[Grimm]

'Tis better to have loved and lost than to love and get hitched to a totaly sellfish b**ch that will make you miserable for your entire life.

(Appologies to Alfred Lord Tennyson)

While you think it's the end of the world that your "true love" left you, that's not the case. She was just an infatuation. A chemical reaction in your brain that you will get over. Yes, you feel horrible. Just do your best to buck up and get on with life.
Save that list. Put it in a envilope and look at it a year from now. you will be able to get a better idea of what kind of berson she is by looking at what she values and what she values first. Eventialy you will realise that she wasn't worth it.

[adjaw]

I received an email from her this morning:

"XXXX,
Hi there. I have almost called you many times in the last couple of days, but
the last time I talked to you, it didn't seem like you wanted me to talk to you
anymore so I left you alone. I am emailing because I wanted to know if you would
like me to bring the monitor by sometime today or tomorrow. I'm not sure about
today, since it took me an entire hour just to get to work this morning. The
roads were terrible! I also wanted to make sure you had the components you
needed for a computer. If not, I'd be happy to try to piece our old one together
for you. There are also a couple things I've been meaning to pick up from the
apartment (my mom's book and a Smallville dvd is still in the player I think).
I miss talking to you, but I understand completely if you don't want to talk
to me anymore. I have lied to you far too much, and I hurt you very badly. I am
sorry for hurting you, and I think of you every day. In fact, I had a moment the
other night that I just sat and cried over us for a while.
Anyway, please let me know what you would like me to do about the monitor. I
don't mind dropping it off in the least bit.

Sincerely,
XXXX"



This is the first time she has somewhat said she was sorry.

Also she has said a couple times in the past that she would help somewhat with the financial obligations I now have because of us living together.(new larger more expensive apartment, all new furniture for all the rooms, new electronics, many misc. purchases like dishes, pots, plants etc., we bought everything new------and racked up alot of debt because of it) But she makes no mention of that in the email.
Before gas goes in my car or food in my mouth, I am about $400 short every month. And at the end of this month I lose my job. I had hoped she would keep her word, but I guess it's the same as always.

I know I shouldn't hear it --- but I wish she would come out and write an email containing the TRUTH about all she has done in our relationship in the past. It shouldn't matter to her now, she should just come clean about everything.

[angl2b]

email her back telling her bring the monitor by. Please stop the excuses and the lies - you don't want to hear it.. tell her to stop trying to make herself feel better for what's she's done by trying to tell you that she thought of you and cried over your relationship. Tell her that instead of lying and emailing you B.S - bring by a check or just send a check every month for the expenses she helped acrew (sp?) for the both of you. Better yet when she comes by to drop off teh monitor tell her to bring cash first - just in case the check bounces.
No shame at all for what's she's done and the pain she has caused. what goes around comes around - you reap what you sow and she will get hers. ugh. Just makes me mad.

[esme]

**snip snip**

she misses talking to you ....seems as though she wants YOU to be there for her at all times ....doesn't matter that she did you wrong SHE just needs YOU to be there for her ......this sounds so selfish!!

she wants to make herself feel better by making you feel bad that she's "down"



Also she has said a couple times in the past that she would help somewhat with the financial obligations I now have because of us living together.(new larger more expensive apartment, all new furniture for all the rooms, new electronics, many misc. purchases like dishes, pots, plants etc., we bought everything new------and racked up alot of debt because of it) But she makes no mention of that in the email.
Before gas goes in my car or food in my mouth, I am about $400 short every month. And at the end of this month I lose my job. I had hoped she would keep her word, but I guess it's the same as always.

I know I shouldn't hear it --- but I wish she would come out and write an email containing the TRUTH about all she has done in our relationship in the past. It shouldn't matter to her now, she should just come clean about everything.

she might have been saying it just to be nice .....maybe she didn't mean it! ....i think it's only fair that she help you .....if it wouldn't have been for her then you probably wouldn't have purchased all of your new stuff, right???

[zero2dash]

Well well look who's throwing a pity party...the one who's guilty. :shake:
Take the monitor + whatever cash you can get & slam the door in her face. *BYE* :wavey2: I wouldn't waste one quarter of one tenth of one second listening to her BS. :nono:

[tupacboy]

if she comes... just take the things she owes u... don't be all sobby over it... she's not worth it... screw this lady... she's an idiot in my opinion that couldn't decide what she wanted... move on my friend... once a cheating heart... always a cheating heart..... but if i were you... i would tell her to stick that monitor up her *must remain pg*......

[kgsilvas]

If you're still feeling suicidal, I sure hope you've called the Suicide Prevention Service hotline. We want you around here posting for a long time!

[nickel]

If you're still feeling suicidal, I sure hope you've called the Suicide Prevention Service hotline. We want you around here posting for a long time!
:agree:

[esme]

how's everything going adjaw?? feeling a little better?

[TofuNinja]

I still have love for her, I know you all think I'm stupid,

no not stupid, human. I finely got around to reading this thread in length. All I can say from my own past is that you will never ever stop loving her. And that is not a bad thing. Part of me still loves my first love. I still wonder about her and wish I knew more about her life, like what she is doing and what not. However she is not my here and now.

Part of you will love this woman always. She has become a part of you. You are who you are today in some part because of her (and every other person in your life). To deny that (which you haven't) is foolish. However not it is time to look ahead. The pain will be there. But you focus too much on the bad times. Remember the good times and remind yourself that somewhere in your future there will be more times like those... hell better than those. Life is too short. Take care of number one and everything else will fall into place. Remember that you are a good person inside (I know this sounds fake because I don't actually know you). There was something about you that she liked... and you know what... someone else will like it even more.

So if you must, cry your eyes dry. But don't forget to live..... don't ever forget to live. ;)

[adjaw]

Last Sunday the 4th, she called me about giving me the monitor and also asking about the couple things she left behind. I told her my concern was not for the monitor, but for the truth. I asked her if she was dating him, she said no. I asked her if she ever kissed him, she said no. I asked her if they had sex, she said no. Then she said they did kinda go on one date, to the circus, that was all. I told her how I am hurting and my thoughts and concerns, of course I started to cry. She cried a little too, because she is worried about me doing something stupid.. I couldn't stop crying so I said bye and hung up. On Monday I remembered that when we were living together I once saw she was on MySpace.com briefly. So I did a search and found her profile. Shockingly her #1 friend on her profile was "him". Her "status" said single though. So did his on his profile.

A couple blurbs from one of her letters/bulletins: "New guy in the pic..seems to be working out so far", "shrug* It's kinda a long story with the guy, I managed to start liking this other guy during the relationship", "No, my life is pretty boring. Only the boy makes it exciting. And it's rough cuz he's so busy (works three jobs, and only one is with me)".

Here is her response to a bulletin survey "he" sent her on Dec. 2nd.:
"Dec 3, 2005 3:36 PM
Subject: RE: f**kable??
Body: Umm..of course you're "doable"....considering I've "done" you.. ;-)
*SMOOCH* "

"His" response to "her" sending the same bulletin survey:
"Dec 3, 2005 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: Am I "doable"?
Body: again and again and again and...well, you get the point. or at least that's what i'd like to do if i'm not sent to work!! ;-) "


And on December 7th a first entry to her blog:
Wednesday, December 07, 2005
Update!
Current mood: excited
Well, you may have noticed that I changed my "marital status" on my main profile to "in a relationship." No, this is not a mistake, a flimflam, or a joke. He and I finally got together...officially. And if you don't know who I'm talking about, then you may feel free to ask me.

So of course they were together UNofficially for God knows how long.
The pain and hurt from her grows everyday. I wanted to marry this person and spend the rest of my life with her. And she just keeps lying and lying and hurting me.

!!!!!!While writing this post she called me. She said she had a bad dream about me. She was worried. Again we rehashed the same stuff. She said the same things, not dating him, not interested in him, etc. And "if anything ever progresses with him, she will let me know".
I think she is only worried because she doesn't want the guilt of anything happening to me. She should be guilty, she used me, mistreated me, lied to me, broke my heart, ruined me emotionally, and ruined me financially. I hope the guilt weighs so heavy on her that she realizes she cannot treat people like pieces of crap. And I hope she stops being self-centered and non-caring about what her actions can cause.
Today's call just hurts me more. I cry for hours everyday, including right now.

[angl2b]

*snip* *snip*

She should be guilty, she used me, mistreated me, lied to me, broke my heart, ruined me emotionally, and ruined me financially. I hope the guilt weighs so heavy on her that she realizes she cannot treat people like pieces of crap. And I hope she stops being self-centered and non-caring about what her actions can cause.


So if you know this - why is it so hard for you to realize although you love her - this is for the best?

[adjaw]

So if you know this - why is it so hard for you to realize although you love her - this is for the best?

Yes I loved her more than anyone in my life, and I still love her.
But in the end, the best for her, is to learn what her actions can cause to others.
There isn't a best for me.

[angl2b]

There isn't a best for me.


:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

[DarkFury]

This woman needs to be SLAMMED to curb.... she's beyond kicking.

In times like this, maybe you should just cut the rope now and just don't talk to her anymore. Yes, it hurts, but sometimes... its the best way to deal with it since if you talk or see her you'll get all "weepy eyed" and such and fall for more of her tricks and deceit.

Just let it go and move on... you are not the first person something like this has happened to and you most likely won't be the last. At least you can make a clean break knowing that it wasn't your fault and take comfort in that. Ultimately, she'll get what's coming to her...and she doesn't deserve your tears right now.

Just be glad that you found out all of this BEFORE you dug yourself a deep hole (i.e. had gotten married or had a kid with her. Those make it MUCH WORSE!!!!)

[MikeD]

Just let it go and move on... you are not the first person something like this has happened to and you most likely won't be the last...Ultimately, she'll get what's coming to her...and she doesn't deserve your tears right now.

Just be glad that you found out all of this BEFORE you dug yourself a deep hole (i.e. had gotten married or had a kid with her. Those make it MUCH WORSE!!!!)

:stupid: You'll look back at all this one day with a sense of relief...relief that you didn't marry this woman.

Keep your chin up. Brighter days are ahead...

[Jihforce]

Truth hurts my friend, you don't want to hear it. You may THINK you do, but you really don't. Do what DF says and you will be fine. You may have to stop thinking about her and start caring about yourself for a change, it may be hard, but it is certainly doable. Time to change your phone number, email address and perhaps even move. She messed out, not you. She may be doing you a favor leaving, you don't want to be married to a chronic lier anyway. Check in with us every so often so we know how your doing. Stop reading he blog. Its only going to depress you.

[Grimm]

Yes I loved her more than anyone in my life, and I still love her.
But in the end, the best for her, is to learn what her actions can cause to others.
There isn't a best for me.
My best friend married a person like your ex-girlfriend. She thought only of herself and contributed nothing to the marriage except for having two kids.
For seven years worked full time, cleaned the house, cooked the meals, washed the dishes, maintained the yard, laundred the clothes, took care of the kids and shopped for groceries. She sat and watched TV while the kids ran wild when he was at work. She could have gotten a job or went to school, it was allright by him, but she did nothing. After 7 years of this she went out behind his back and divorced him, she wanted to "find herself". He was devastated. He did all these things for years because he loved her and got almost nothing in return.
After a year or so he looked back and said, "What was I thinking?!?". He realised that she wasn't worth it, she was just a leech. He knows he is better off now. She was just a stone around his neck. Nothing he ever did made her happy with him and he never had a clue what a witch she was.
Today he is happy with his two kids in the nice home he has made for them.
She lives in squalor and debit because her allimony ran out.
The squalor is her fault because she never picks up after herslef and no longer has someone ding it for her. The debt is also her fault. She tried to get him to take her back, but he laughed at her. She didn't love him, she's not capable of loveing anyone but herself. She just liked the home he could provide and the person to clean up after her. She still hasn't found herself. If she ever does she definately won't like what she sees, but there is very little danger of that ever happening. She lives in denial, everything that happens is someone elses fault. Must be nice to be perfect.

One day you too will realise what a worthless person your ex is. Then you will get over it and realise how much better off you are without her. And you will see that there are many other women out there who will value you for who you are, not what they can get out of you before discarding you.

[kgsilvas]

...Stop reading he blog. Its only going to depress you.

You need to stop torturing yourself.

[gwilks98]

Yup...had this happen to me before. At least she gave you the closure of admiting it.

I found someone else who's much better for me. I promise you that once you distance yourself from her (do it NOW) you'll start to clear up and realize what you needed in a girl is obviously not what you found.

Give it time...

[adjaw]

Yup...had this happen to me before. At least she gave you the closure of admiting it.

She's admitted nothing.

[angl2b]

she didn't give him closure - she is still lying to him - he just wants that finalization that it is as he suspected and he is right that she is/was cheating/lying to him all a long stringing him a long like a puppet.

[esme]

can you honestly say that you would've rather have married her than to find out all of this beforehand?

yes, it's hard and it will be hard for who knows how long, BUT i personally think that it would be easier for you if you ask her to not call and stay away so that you can get through this. it's not helping you if she calls and goes over to pick up her stuff ....even after all that happened she's still lying to you ...it's not worth it.

it is hard to get over this and it will take time, but it won't happen until YOU make it happen

[zero2dash]

:banghead:

I can't believe you can even speak with this girl after all the $#!t she's put you through.

It's been said a million times already.
You're better off.
Consider this split God's way of telling you likewise. She's no good. She can't tell the truth. She's lied time and time again and continues to lie now.

Let the other sap deal with her. He'll be in the same boat as you soon enough, I guarantee it.

She's worthless.
Move on. :shrug:

[kain9i6]

The best advice I can give is to just let it go.. Find things to take your mind off of her... My love left me back in October and it nearly ended me too.. Couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, all thoughts, feelings everything were on her.. i went into a self destructive rampage ranging from malnutrition (not eating), to alcoholism, eventually leading to a 2nd DUI because of it all.. and in the end I looked back and realize that it's not worth it all. One can love another, completely and with all their heart, but if one doesn't love themself, then the love they claim on another never truly existed..

It takes a strong person to admit their true love for someone, but it takes a stronger person to let them go.. And if i can be quite honest, it seems that, as others have stated, she is being quite selfish. She wants your time when she wants it, but can't give any of hers in return? I know this, as I am going through it too.. And now, since I've pretty much hit the "acceptance" phase of the break-up stage, I just don't care.. and people seem to only truly miss you after they realize you are gone. Let her go through the heartache, and hurt, while you move on. Let her need you and realize that you are no longer there.. no, it's not revenge, but reality. if you truly loved someone, you would never abandon them... True love cannot be shown where it does not truly exist... nor can it be hidden where it truly does (sorry, I'm a quote freak)..

anyways, don't do anything that would hurt yourself as bad as things may seem, no one is worth hurting yourself over. And if all these words are being listened to, but you still feel the hurt and pangs, think of it this way... if you love her completely, then let her go and be happy.. that's how I saw it.. I loved mine and want nothing but her happiness.. if it's not with me, then so be it, if it is, well time is the only thing that will write that chapter.

stay strong man and realize that you do have people that are there to offer any words of advice and good will.. hell, I don't know you but will be there if you need to talk.

Another quote: "You can't control what happens in life, but you can control out you react."

[gwilks98]

She's admitted nothing.
Well, you caught her about as red handed as you can get. She's made it clear she's not worth any more of your time. If she did it to you, she'll do it to him. Let her screw over the next poor sap and move on.

[kain9i6]

Also, don't be too suprised, or read too far into things when she keeps trying to contact you. Most of the time, the dumper will keep fishing for all of the compliments/reassurance of themselves long after the break-up because they get used to it and don't get it any place else.

[TofuNinja]

But you know the truth. What difference does it make if it comes straight from her mouth or from her blog that you've found?

The Truth is that she is a liar and has hurt you.

I am with the rest of the peeps here. GET the F out. You don't need that. Be thankful you got out of that. Your hope blinds your. Kill that hope and open your eyes. I was in a bad relationship once, and now when I look back at it. I am super super super super glad I got out of it. Thank GAWD! Except the pain then let it go young Padawan. The living force is much better :)

hahaha half of me is very curious about her myspace site now..... but this cat does not want to be killed

[angl2b]

I'm curious on her site to - I want to know if she is doable... LOL
But she's not worth the heartache for sure - its like wham bam thank you ma'am - but think of possible diseases...... :dead:
Be happy you are out of it and not in it - married with kids and in pain and making a horrible life for your children (if you and her got married and had some)

[adjaw]

I just learn more and more every day. It sickens me. I didn't think she could be this cruel.

[esme]

how are you holding up?

[adjaw]

how are you holding up?

Not very well at all. She's still hurtful to me, not caring anything about my welfare or well-being. I didn't really think she could be that way, not just to me, but to a human being in general. It hurts so very much. The pain hasn't decreased at all. I don't eat, I pretty much just sit at home. The last time I had solid food was when I took her to lunch on her birthday, November 21st. I've lost about 25 pounds. I've tried to eat, just can't keep it down.
In one of her messages on myspace.com she told someone she spends most of her money on going out and food. Nice to know she's having a good time with her friends and her boyfriend. She's still never sent me a dime to help pay some of the bills we both incurred by living together. I guess I never really expected it anyway. She's just smoothly transitioned herself from me to him without even a blink.
No cares or thoughts of me.....oh well.

[nickel]

Not very well at all. She's still hurtful to me, not caring anything about my welfare or well-being. I didn't really think she could be that way, not just to me, but to a human being in general. It hurts so very much. The pain hasn't decreased at all. I don't eat, I pretty much just sit at home. The last time I had solid food was when I took her to lunch on her birthday, November 21st. I've lost about 25 pounds. I've tried to eat, just can't keep it down.
In one of her messages on myspace.com she told someone she spends most of her money on going out and food. Nice to know she's having a good time with her friends and her boyfriend. She's still never sent me a dime to help pay some of the bills we both incurred by living together. I guess I never really expected it anyway. She's just smoothly transitioned herself from me to him without even a blink.
No cares or thoughts of me.....oh well.
you should care about yourself adjaw. it doesn't sound like you do.
stop reading her myspace for one thing.

go out with your friends, meet some new people. you need to put this chapter behind you.

[cheapie]

no offense dude...you need someone to give you a swift kick in the ass.

[esme]

you need to eat, nobody's worth you getting sick (your well being)

[Grimm]

I just learn more and more every day. It sickens me. I didn't think she could be this cruel.
You should be ok when you realize that even if she wanted to come back, you wouldn't want her back.
The idealized person you lived with never reall existed. It was a facade. You can't have what doesn't exist. So get off your ass and get out there. Concentrate on resolving on your financial situation.
Get a roommate if you can. Return or sell the things you can't afford and look for additional work. Don't sit at home, it's killing you.

[angl2b]

:bonk: *KICKS ADJAW*

all because we care.

:D

[Daedalus]

:bonk: *KICKS ADJAW*


It had to be said and done. You are a man. Act like one for jeebuses sake!

[zero2dash]

Not very well at all. She's still hurtful to me, not caring anything about my welfare or well-being. I didn't really think she could be that way, not just to me, but to a human being in general. It hurts so very much. The pain hasn't decreased at all. I don't eat, I pretty much just sit at home. The last time I had solid food was when I took her to lunch on her birthday, November 21st. I've lost about 25 pounds. I've tried to eat, just can't keep it down.
In one of her messages on myspace.com she told someone she spends most of her money on going out and food. Nice to know she's having a good time with her friends and her boyfriend. She's still never sent me a dime to help pay some of the bills we both incurred by living together. I guess I never really expected it anyway. She's just smoothly transitioned herself from me to him without even a blink.
No cares or thoughts of me.....oh well.

I say this with the utmost respect and care for your well being...
Your continued self-hurt/mutilation with this :nuts: psycho stalker thing you've got going on is disgusting. You do need a kick in your ass...a seriously large kick in your ass. Why do you continue to act like this girl is god's gift to the world? She's a lying cheating hoe. And don't even lie - you'd take her ass back in a heartbeat if you could...I bet you would.

*sigh*
Some people you just can't help. :shrug: :disa:

[TofuNinja]

someone needs a beat down. Snap out of it dude. LIVE LIVE YOUR LIFE.

Or are you that sick and desparate that you think if you hurt yourself she will come running back.... she's proven she won't and doesn't care. She's moved on, you need to too. She ain't coming back. You ain't taking her back. Get that through your head.... No girl is worth that. No guy either (just to be fair to the ladies).

[adjaw]

.. she's proven she won't and doesn't care. She's moved on, you need to too. She ain't coming back. You ain't taking her back.


I know she isn't coming back. Everything I've learned since she's left has hurt me tremendously. I know she doesn't care about me or my welfare. I still feel empty and lost. I'm trying to forget, but it's hard. I still do love her. I cannot hate her. I will do what is right for me, I just need time.

[TofuNinja]

I know it's hard. But man you need to get your mind off of her. Hang out with Friends, eat, play games, knit, workout.... etc. Sitting around wallowing in self pity isn't gonna do you any good. :) We all here are all cheering for you adjaw.

[Jihforce]

losing someone you shared your life with is like losing a piece of yourself. what is important is that you find a way to fill that empy/lost feeling in your heart with something else. as it was repetitively suggested to you, STOP seeking out info about her or anything relating to her. You need to take control of your feelings, if not, you'll be digging yourself a bigger hole to climb out of, not fun, trust me. Self-pity is NOT a good thing. She has obviously moved on, I suggest you do the same.

[booger73]

I'm sure this is a tough time of the year.. so I hope you're holding up ok.. you can always come talk to us here, you know.

[adjaw]

I want to thank everyone for all their help during this very trying time for me. I especially want to thank angl2b for all her thoughts and words, we even spoke on the phone one day. She is a special lady and I wish her only the best.

One year ago this night I proposed to Mary, and she accepted. The memories of that night are vivid in my mind. I've given everything much thought, and I've made my decision. Sadly I will not be posting any more. I hope none of you ever go through the pain I have felt for the past seven weeks.


Again, thank you all.

[zero2dash]

One year ago this night I proposed to Mary, and she accepted. The memories of that night are vivid in my mind. I've given everything much thought, and I've made my decision. Sadly I will not be posting any more. I hope none of you ever go through the pain I have felt for the past seven weeks.


Again, thank you all.

Umm...adjaw...?
Please tell us you're not going to kill yourself. :eek:

If you're not...*and I hope not*...
then...
please tell us you're not going back to her? :eek: :eek:

If you're not wanting to post in this thread, to let it all go, then
:agree: with that...it may help.

Look forward to 2006 as the proverbial clean slate, the year to start things fresh/over/anew.

Good luck to you my friend. :)

[dsuds]

adjaw,

That post has a very scary tone to it. Please don't do anything drastic.

NO WOMAN IS WORTH THROWING YOUR LIFE AWAY FOR.

You've had enough time and seen enough facts to know that she is no good for you. Yet you still pine for her like an addict to a crack pipe. I know this sounds a bit mean spirited but love is partially a chemical addiction.

Get professional help. And good luck.

David

[cheapie]

His friends say stop whining,
they've had enough of that.
His friends would say stop pining,
there's others girls to look at.

They've tried to set him up with Tiffany and Indigo,
but there's something about Mary that they don't know.

Mary, there's just something about Mary.

Well, his friends say, look life's no fairy tale,
that he should have some fun, he's suffered long enough.
Well, they may now about domestic and imported ale,
but they don't know a thing about love.

Well, his friends would say he's dreaming
and living in the past,
but they've never fallen in love,
so his friends need not be asked.

His friends would say be reasonable,
his friends would say just let go,
but there's something about Mary that they don't know.

Mary, there's just something about Mary.

[brainsmile]

we may never know the end to this tale

[nickel]

I want to thank everyone for all their help during this very trying time for me. I especially want to thank angl2b for all her thoughts and words, we even spoke on the phone one day. She is a special lady and I wish her only the best.

One year ago this night I proposed to Mary, and she accepted. The memories of that night are vivid in my mind. I've given everything much thought, and I've made my decision. Sadly I will not be posting any more. I hope none of you ever go through the pain I have felt for the past seven weeks.


Again, thank you all.
:(

you know.... this really pisses me off. what decision did you make?
if i had a big wet trout i'd slap you upsidethehead for leaving us hanging.
and if you did something stupid i will catch up to one day, and i will have the wet trout in hand.

[Hoser]

Not to be mean, but there is NO woman worth putting yourself through a living hell. The only woman that I would give up or do anything for is my Mom (who died 4 years ago). Other than that no other woman is worth that much.

[Jihforce]

it is too sad that he's letting his emotions get the best of him.

[zero2dash]

I sent a PM to angl2b in the hopes that she's talked to him recently (or can call him and check up on him)...hopefully he didn't do something stupid.

***

God what I wouldn't give to have 5 minutes alone with this woman (and I use that term figuratively)...
I hope he wasn't dumb enough to end his life over this piece of trash. :disa:

[angl2b]

I haven't been on G|A for a few days - got zero's PM today and did call. After a few tries - someone did pick up and hang up without saying a word. I did however receive an email this evening and called a co worker of adjaw's. With great regret and sadness - adjaw took his own life after his last post on G|A. :neartears
I do not know the details or anything like that.

R.I.P adjaw
I hope that you finally have the peace you needed and I am sorry that I couldn't have done more to help.
:sad:




God what I wouldn't give to have 5 minutes alone with this woman


Yes - I would like to give her a piece of my mind too.

[esme]

omg!!! ....no way

[angl2b]

yeah
it's true
:cry: :(

[brainsmile]

woah... any newspaper stories on this?

[esme]

yeah
it's true
:cry: :(


oh my .....:eek: ....:disa: why is it so hard for some people to get through these situations ......why resort to something so so drastic :sad:

[Markel]

So sad....


woah... any newspaper stories on this?
If he had lived in a small town, you might expect to find something. However, being in Chicago, I doubt that you'll find anything.

[Antonietta6]

Hello everyone. I am a friend and coworker of adjaw. We have been very close friends for the past year. We took our smoke & lunch breaks together & I bought his car from him almost a year ago. He would listen to me bitch, moan & nag about everyday crap. He was a great listener. I only wish he would have listened to everyone when they were trying to get him to get help. I found out today, at 11:30am, what Johns last decision was. Needless to say I have been crying all day. I wish you could have seen him, how he changed throughout the past couple months. There have been so many people, here at work, that have tried to help him. John is greatly missed by many. I love him and I wish I had the chance to tell him that. Now, I guess, I never will. I partly feel responsible for not being able to help or not seeing the signs, tho everyone tells me I shouldn't feel this way. He pushed so many people away, including me. He called me Wednesday, to wish me a Happy New Year because he was going to be off for the rest of the week. I should have caught on. I should have told someone how bad he had gotten. You just never think it would happen.
So far we haven't heard anything from the police as to what exactly happened. We may not find out for a few days yet, or we may not find out at all. The police officer who called John's supervisor was not in today. If I hear any new information, I will post again.
As for the girl who ruined his life, I hope she rots you know where. I hope she feels so guilty that it eats her alive and haunts her dreams.

[MikeD]

oh my .....:eek: ....:disa: why is it so hard for some people to get through these situations ......why resort to something so so drastic :sad:

For some people, the demons are simply too strong. Looks like our friend just couldn't overcome them.

Sad, sad events...I hate to see this happen, but at least the man is free from his pain. RIP, and I truly hope he found what he was searching for.

[Grimm]

When someone decides to kill themselves there is not really much you can do. Some send out cries for help. Those are people who want help and don't really want to kill themselves.
Others pick a time and place where they will not be disturbed and just do it.

Really, if you tried to intervene any time you thought there was a hint that someone was going to kill themselves you would spend every minute running from friend to friend. It simply can not be done.There are just too many sad people in the world. A bit of tragedy here, a touch of depression there, and a few just wanting a few minutes of quitet time over there. Really, unless someone makes some obvious signs there is nothing you can do.

He was a grown man. He made his decision. While it would be nice if someone could go back and change things, they can't. You can't. It's between him and God now. It might seem callous, but that's the way it is. Worry about the living. Support the people close to him that he left behind. It is going to be hard on them. His family will be the ones hurting. But don't feel guilty about not stopping him. It's just not something you could have done.

[ShawnLee]

Dude, not cool. It's certainly not anyone's fault, I'm with Grimm on this, no one can blame themselves for someone else's actions.

While it's sad, it's done.

What a bummer.

[Markel]

Antonietta6,

Thanks for the information you shared. I was concerned about what the meaning of adjaw's last post might have been. I tried emailing via the forum, but he didn't have it enabled, so I worked thru GAM (the Got Apex Moderator) to get an email sent out to check if he was ok. Unfortunately, we now know the answer.

[brainsmile]

major suckage... honestly there's more to live for than what he went through but it's too late now.

Antonietta6 how old was he?

[Antonietta6]

Brainsmile
From what he would tell me jokingly.... 35..... but I knew he was in his early 40's. I eventually got the truth out of him.

He had such georgeous eyes. I miss him

[nickel]

:(

did he think this was a way to get even with the chick who messed him up and screwed him over? it wasn't. he further screwed himself over and even worse, his family and friends who care.

dammit adjaw... dammit. :(


thank you angl2b and Antonietta6 for your posts and being there for him.

[angl2b]

John (adjaw) was 40 -
he really felt that everything was at an end. No matter how much I talked to him- he just wasn't ready to move on - he did try though to let go - but to love and to get screwed over like that - hurts. It was what he thought a second time around for love regardless of age. This has happened to him before and he bounced back (with his first marriage) but given that he loved again and was going to start a new life with someone and for it to happen again - he couldn't take it.
He really was a sweet guy. I am just sorry that I never got to know him other than these circumstances.
:(

[zero2dash]

Truly truly truly a sad day. :(
I knew he was upset but I never thought he'd let this get the best of him...not after having lived for 40 yrs and probably knowning in the back of his head things would eventually get better.
I just hope he's happy wherever he is and he finds peace.
As for that whore, well I hope she's happy too. I hope she can live with herself knowing that her cruel ass led a man to kill himself. F'n b :angry:

[sixpac shakur]

Oh sh/t. :(

As weird and dysfunctional as we are, we are still a family. We've lost one of our own.

[zero2dash]

Oh sh/t. :(

As weird and dysfunctional as we are, we are still a family. We've lost one of our own.

Yeah...:( I agree.

I've been looking (through Google) on news sites for the Chicago area (papers and tv stations) but I haven't found anything yet; if I do, I'll post it here.

God this is so sad. :bawl:

[angl2b]

I have been looking also but I came up with nothing.
:sad:

[Markel]

I checked the Chicago Tribune and Chicago Sun Times (the 2 major newspapers) and didn't see anything. The Sun Times (http://www.suntimes.com/pwrsearch/) search includes several other local news sources. Other major papers I know of (covering suburbs) are the Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/) and Pioneer Press (www.pioneerlocal.com/).

[zero2dash]

I've went through pretty much every link on this site and found nothing (and it looks like they link to everything that is published or coming out of Chicago).
http://www.headlinespot.com/local/chicago.htm

*sigh*
I...dunno really what to say, everyone...just...sad. :disa: :neartears :sad:
I didn't know him all that much but I still feel like I just lost a relative...
really puts into perspective how fragile life is... :(

[Antonietta6]

It's very tough. I'm sitting here, at work, just thinking. Knowing that someone who I was so close to will no longer be emailing me thoughout the day and will no longer be outside smoking at breaks. It's very hard to walk over to that side of the building and not see him sitting at his desk. It's also hard because people here know that I was very close to him. I have been questioned by at least 4 people in the last hour and I have no new news to share. I wish I knew so all these questions, that I also have, can be answered.

[angl2b]

It's very tough. I'm sitting here, at work, just thinking. Knowing that someone who I was so close to will no longer be emailing me thoughout the day and will no longer be outside smoking at breaks. It's very hard to walk over to that side of the building and not see him sitting at his desk. It's also hard because people here know that I was very close to him. I have been questioned by at least 4 people in the last hour and I have no new news to share. I wish I knew so all these questions, that I also have, can be answered.

I can't imagine your pain, anguish and shock you feel. :( I am sure that above all else when people ask you questions when you have your own set you would like answers to it doesn't make it any easier. If you need to talk to us - feel free to keep posting we are all here.

I will keep John's family and friends in my prayers tonight. I hope that he can see that he was truly cared for and loved by those that knew him.

[zero2dash]

I will keep John's family and friends in my prayers tonight. I hope that he can see that he was truly cared for and loved by those that knew him.

Yes...I hope that he realizes that we all care about him. No matter how much or how little we really knew him, the fact remains...like sixpac said, we're all a family and obviously we all look out for one another. I think this goes without saying, but - Antonietta - if you need anything (whether it's a listening ear or a shoulder to cry on) - we're here for you. :hug:

[DarkFury]

This became a "self fulfilled prophecy" here:

http://forums.gotapex.com/showpost.php?p=950225&postcount=94



All the things that have happened in my life recently make me very depressed. I know you all say "pick yourself up and start over!"..... easier said than done. I've heard all the cliches already, new start, better off without her, it wasn't meant to be etc. etc. I wish the hurt would go away, but it wont. I still cry, at home, at work, in the car. Thoughts of my own conclusion have been with me for a few weeks and don't want to leave. My good buddy is trying to help me with those thoughts. He's been a good friend. I don't know what's going to happen in my future, but I can't handle these feelings and thoughts constantly. I can't just turn them off, I wish I could. She really doesn't realize what she had, maybe it's my own fault, maybe just hers, maybe ours.
I still love her.

Nickel was the first here to try to persude him NOT to go the suicide route, but yet if even his close friend couldn't stop him, then we absolutely made no difference in changing his mind about the situation.

I could say that I felt sorry for Adjaw (John), however another side of me says that suicide is still the cowardly way of dealing with life's problems. To think that you have NOTHING more to live for... your family, your friends... YOURSELF!!! Well dayuum... :2far:

My heart goes out to John's family and friends who actually cared about him... and are now in pain all because he got caught up in the "black hole of a woman" who didn't really care about him. By reading the multitude of posts and now the reportings of his friend, John could have chosen another route but he instead gave up on himself. Tis quite a shame... I wonder if that girl will even notice if he is gone. (anyone got a link to her blog to see?)

Anyways... wherever you are John, I hope you found all of the answers that you couldn't find on this plane of existance. To act so drastically with such finality... is just INEXCUSABLE. Oh well...your fate is no longer in your hands now... guess it never was. :2far:

To John's family and friends... hopefully the pain of your loss will subside in time. Our hearts go out to you. :sad:

[zero2dash]

Even if we didn't change his final decision - the fact that we were there to try and help him during his time of need is all that matters. Most likely he made his mind up a long time ago about going through with this, and I'm sure if that's the case, then no one could've changed his mind. That still doesn't negate the fact that we tried and we had to do something to try and help him.

Whether his decision was cowardly or not - well you're entitled to your opinion. I disagree for the simple fact that it's easy for someone on the outside to say "cowardly" but the fact is that no one knows how truly down he was and how desperate he was, grabbing at anything he could find to try and stay afloat in the ocean of sadness and depression that had become his life.

The decision was his to make, DF...it's a shame that he made the decision that he did, but nevertheless it was his to make. We can't effectively get inside his head or even begin to try to imagine how he felt when his life started falling apart (in his mind). All we could do is offer our advice and hope that he took it; I don't think any of us at any point in time thought that suicide was an option that he was considering. Everyone obviously takes situations in life differently - some run away, some stand and fight...ie "fight or flight response".

John apparently found himself in a dark tunnel with no light, no map, and (in his mind) no way out and no other choice to make. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's had troubling times in their lives, and as a side effect of those times - contemplated the "what ifs" of suicide...I'm not afraid to admit that I have. It's a sad moment for us all, not only because we lose a friend...but also because we thought that we were helping him find that light, that map...and that way out.

[angl2b]

It is hard when you feel so alone and not be able to have someone there to help you climb out - some make it and some don't.:sad:
I myself have been there and have contemplated that option as well at one point - it is a dark and bleak path. It is hard when it is something you want so desperately and not have. For those that do try and talk to someone when they are down that path - very rarely do the person respond positively - it is something that the person has to decide that they want to do then the suggestions given would be taken somewhat in a positive light.
When a person feels that there is nobody and is completely alone regardless of who is around them - it is something like an outsider window shopping at the world but feel nothing but emptiness. I don't know how many people have been down the dark, blake path and are fortunate enough to find their way out. For those that couldn't they did what they thought was best to end the pain they felt lke John did. In some eyes it is cowardly - but at that moment when you are in it - you find it to be a blessing - cause all you can think about is - if you are not here anymore - you won't hurt anyone and nobody can hurt you. You can finally be at peace with this inner struggle you feel. I still say that I wish that John was able to climb out of it. Even though he has made the decision he made - I can also understand it. It is truly a sad, sad feeling for all those that have lost him and wished they could do more - but at the same time I am sure they (we) recognize that he is at peace now.
As for the girl that drove him to this - what goes around comes around - she'll get hers.

[zero2dash]

:agree: with everything you said, angl2b, especially...


As for the girl that drove him to this - what goes around comes around - she'll get hers.

My life is a testament to this...my ex tore me up and karma came back and got her for me. This girl will get hers...if she can live with herself after finding out how depressed she made John in the end.

Again, it's a sad day for all of us...but on the flipside of the coin...when the sun comes up again, we'll all know that wherever he is, John has finally found peace within himself and gotten closure for all of his pain and suffering.

Everyone be sure to hug your loved ones and significant others extra tight tonight. :hug:

[brainsmile]

Does anyone know the blog of his ex?

[eSDee]

I hope this turns out to be a hoax. If it's not I am very sorry to hear it. But I have heard before about someone faking their death on a message board in order to get a "fresh start". I certainly hope this is the case. If not, I hope we can find an article on it. Please post it if you find it.

I'm sorry if that seems insensitive.

[Daedalus]

I feel compelled to play devil's advocate for a bit. I'm sure the young lady feels terrible. One of the reasons people commit suicide, besides ending their misery, is to make a final, resolute and emotional strike at those who hurt them. They relish the thought of their tormentors feeling as much regret and guilt as possible. The fact that others get hurt too makes it such a selfish thing to do.
The young lady is about 20 years old? Maybe a teenager when they met or got engaged? Folks, most people that age still have some changes ahead in finding out who they are and what they want. Such a large age difference must create a weird dynamic in the relationship. Maybe she was too intimidated or embarrassed to say no at the proposal. Or maybe she changed her mind months later (it does happen). She may have lied and lied, but perhaps only to spare his feelings.
I can't help but to think that the way the relationship ended was a risk that was greatly magnified by the age difference, and he, being much older, should not have been blind to that risk.
This is a real tragedy, but think twice before directing your anger at someone who's probably more affected by this than you are.
I too am sorry for all those who were close to him.

[zero2dash]

Reread over some of the older posts, Daedalus.

She tore his heart out and ripped it in two.
She lied to him all the time and (all signs point to) her having a relationship behind his back while they were still engaged. She strung him along and took advantage of him having feelings for her.

I'm sure she'll suffer.
Sorry...she deserves it. She made that bed...she sleeps in it.
She gets ZERO sympathy from me. :2far: :shifty:

[Daedalus]

Ok. I read it all as it unfolded. And I just read it all again. I came away with a couple things. She left him for someone else and lied about it repeatedly. She lied about helping him out financially. I'm not saying she didn't do any wrong, just that she shouldn't be judged harsher because of what he ended up doing. Who hasn't had their hearts broken? Who hasn't had a nasty break-up? Lying exes can't be that rare, can they? Most people get over it, don't they? The first post was over 6 weeks ago. The big common theme among responses was that he should move on. Everyone knew it. Most people said it. You said his self hurt/mutilation was disgusting (I totally agreed). He admitted that he should move on. But he couldn't. He chose to hang on. He chose to let his emotions carry him over the edge. I'm probably coming off as callous, and I don't mean to. I felt sorry for him, but I couldn't understand how and why he chose to handle things the way he did. And of course I shake my head at what he did--I know people who have faced similar or worse trials and come through them. I just posted because I don't think the girl deserves the full wrath of the world because of youthful indiscretions that are not all that uncommon. I think it's unfair to imply her actions were so horrible that she drove him to do it.

[DarkFury]

Even if we didn't change his final decision - the fact that we were there to try and help him during his time of need is all that matters. Most likely he made his mind up a long time ago about going through with this, and I'm sure if that's the case, then no one could've changed his mind. That still doesn't negate the fact that we tried and we had to do something to try and help him.

Whether his decision was cowardly or not - well you're entitled to your opinion. I disagree for the simple fact that it's easy for someone on the outside to say "cowardly" but the fact is that no one knows how truly down he was and how desperate he was, grabbing at anything he could find to try and stay afloat in the ocean of sadness and depression that had become his life.

The decision was his to make, DF...it's a shame that he made the decision that he did, but nevertheless it was his to make. We can't effectively get inside his head or even begin to try to imagine how he felt when his life started falling apart (in his mind). All we could do is offer our advice and hope that he took it; I don't think any of us at any point in time thought that suicide was an option that he was considering. Everyone obviously takes situations in life differently - some run away, some stand and fight...ie "fight or flight response".

John apparently found himself in a dark tunnel with no light, no map, and (in his mind) no way out and no other choice to make. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's had troubling times in their lives, and as a side effect of those times - contemplated the "what ifs" of suicide...I'm not afraid to admit that I have. It's a sad moment for us all, not only because we lose a friend...but also because we thought that we were helping him find that light, that map...and that way out.
I respect everyone's opinions... however I do disagree with your assessment.

No matter how bad things are... there are much better ways of dealing with problems. There are entire agencies devoted to giving people in these situatons help. Did he avail himself of those avenues? Didn't seem like it to me. All he did (from what I could see) is come here and cry on our collective shoulders about not being able to have his way in his relationship with that woman. Many of us tried to dissuade him from pursuing it further and as evidenced by my post above, Nickel recommended counseling before making such a decision.

I stand firm by my previous statements. It IS a cowardly act in my opinion... has anything been gained by it? I do feel sorry for his family and friends for being put through this. You can feel differently if you like, but that's my take on it.

I'm not trying to disrespect John... but I'm calling a spade a spade here. He can now R.I.P. if he ever can.

[nickel]

my thoughts after thinking about this quite a bit last night are totally agreeing with DF. it sounds blunt to call someone that commits suicide a coward or selfish, but i've always felt that way.

i was close to a guy who killed himself over a girl just the same, and to this day i still carry guilt that if i could've been there at that time i could have somehow stopped him. for someone who was suffering he didn't seem to care if those that loved him suffered the rest of their lives for his actions.

bottom line is adjaw was wrong to take his own life.

also, i don't wish death/suffering on his ex girlfriend. many people survive break ups worse than theirs. she didn't kill him. he killed himself.


I hope this turns out to be a hoax. If it's not I am very sorry to hear it. But I have heard before about someone faking their death on a message board in order to get a "fresh start". I certainly hope this is the case. If not, I hope we can find an article on it. Please post it if you find it.

I'm sorry if that seems insensitive.
darn you and your seeds of doubt, but i did wonder who picked up the phone and then hung up when angl2b called.

[cheapie]

i'm with grimm, df, and nickel. it's hard to man up and just deal with it. suicide is the easy way out. i feel terrible for him but he took the easy way out.

kinda like dungy's son.

[Kim]

I agree with DF.

My uncle committed suicide last year. He left behind a wife and 3 kids to mourn him everyday. His problems didn't end when he did, they just got transferred to my aunt and cousins and all of us who loved him. My other uncle goes to bed every night with the image of holding his brother while he bleeds to death in his arms. My aunt remembers daily the site of the room in her house where she found him. My cousin as well. My girl cousins will never have their father to walk them down the aisle when they marry, nor will their children know what a great man their grandpa used to be. My mom was too weak from her own cancer to walk, yet she had to bury her brother. I'm convinced the grief of this ended her life earlier than it would have. My Grandma buried two of her children in one year, she still mourns. My kids ask me often about Uncle Mark, because they knew he took me in when I was a teenager and having trouble at home, and how special he was to me. Ashley often remembers the jokes he saved just for her, and the books he sent her because he and she were so much alike.

I guess my point is that suicide does nothing to end your problems. It is a selfish way to get out of dealing with them, and I get so angry when I hear someone has chosen this route. Having a pretty rough year myself, I feel bad for adjaw for his hurt, but I wonder if he thought at all for the pain he would cause for those he left behind.

[ialsohaveadream]

also, i don't wish death/suffering on his ex girlfriend. many people survive break ups worse than theirs. she didn't kill him. he killed himself.

Thank God, I was staying silent reading this and wondering if you were all insane. :) So a 20 year old girl got a 40+ year old man to spend a lot of money on her, but then cheated on him? That's so stupid and immature, it sounds like something a 20 year old girl would do. Oh, wait. :rolleyes:

My fiance and I split up a while ago. It was depressing, but I don't wish any ill will to her, and I'm sure as hell not going to kill myself over it.

darn you and your seeds of doubt, but i did wonder who picked up the phone and then hung up when angl2b called.
eSDee said it, but he sure wasn't the only one thinking it.

[LPMiller]

nobody wins with a suicide. All involved deserve sympathy.

[zero2dash]

I will say that I wish he would've gotten more help...therapy, meds, shrink...he obviously needed something but (it appears) he decided to clam up and try and work things out on his own, in his own mind. That decision didn't stray him from his downfall, but you've gotta at least give him credit for reaching out instead of bottling it up inside. It's still a damn shame that he didn't get further help...I guess if there's anything to learn about this, it's the stigma that depression is something you can just "think yourself out of" or something that will just pass with time. If you're down in the dumps, etc. stuff like that sometimes passes just as you get over it. With a deeper rooted problem (like it seems John might have had, especially with the likelihood of codependency) - more help is necessary. For whatever reason - John didn't seek that extra (professional) help.

Is suicide an easy way out? Sure, for the person who commits it. But obviously (as many of you have commented), the problems from that person transfer onto the problems of everyone else around that person - whether it be mental anguish, bills, etc. But the fact remains...well, no, wait, I'll say...IMO....when you're at the end of your rope and you feel like there's no way out, I'm sure committing suicide seems like an ideal choice because the dogs stop barking in your head and the pain doesn't hurt anymore. That being said - do I agree with it? No. One of the few things that has always kept me going along (in my worst of times) was my friends & family and not wanting my niece to grow up not being able to see her uncle anymore.

As for his ex fiancee - after a lot of thinking about this whole situation last night, in some ways I'm a little more sympathetic towards her for the simple fact that she'll have this on her conscience the rest of her life (and a lot of questions about it). I still think she was overly insensitive to him, but there's two sides to every story (and in all fairness - we've only heard one). I do also agree though that he is the primary person responsible for this, only because he could've gotten help if he tried, and he could've made it through this.

I hate to be critical of this topic or any decisions surrounding John & his family and friends surrounding this decision...so I guess I'll just close with this thought and say that this is obviously a no-win situation and the real losers are his friends & family (especially if he has any kids). :(

[Antonietta6]

First, I want to thank all of you for caring about John. Though you may have not known him the way I do, I know you all meant a great deal to him. He shared this website with me in the beginning of December because it was too hard for him to come out and talk about it with me. His exact words, written in email to me on Dec 2 were:

"Toni,

Here is the forum I was posting in. Maybe it will help you understand a little better. Sorry it's kind of long, I think the posts and replies are up to 4 pages now.
Sorry I couldn't explain it all when we were talking, it's hard to talk and cry and keep my thoughts together. Please keep this between you and me.

My forum name is 'adjaw' "

I came into work today and found out the details about Johns death.

From what I was told, John decided the best way for him was to asphyxiate himself, which he did by purchasing a helium tank. He inhaled it and went to sleep, to never wake up again. He wrote his exfiance an email before ending it all. She made a courtesy call to the police to have them check on him. That is how he was found.

He also wrote his brother a letter stating that he wants to be cremated and does not want a wake/funeral. I found this out through a coworker of mine who called and spoke to his brother. Once again, the more I find out, the more I will post.

I respect everyones opinions and feelings as to what Johns decision was. I am no one to judge John. He chose what he felt was best for him. I miss him greatly. Some think that this is a hoax, trust me, it is not. My tears and feelings of pain are real, as well as the feelings from family and his other friends. At this point, no one knows who has his cell phone. I would think either the police or his brother may have it.

As far as his ex goes, I would love to kick her extremely hard in the head. I know she will live with this guilt for the rest of her life. Do I feel bad for her? No, but I also don't blame her for the decisoin John made.

Toni

[esme]

:shake:

i'm just speechless. i've been reading what others have been posting, but haven't been able to say anything ....i just feel for his family & friends. i know how it feels to loose somebody so close, but not like this (suicide)

:(

[booger73]

Not that there's a lot left to say but..

1) Christmas/New Year's time is always a terrible time of the year (i.e. not to say I 'know anything', but I did have a 'feeling', right prior to his 1/1 post.. i.e, see my 12/24 post) Could any of us, what we would all consider his online family do anything, who knows.. but i think we all tried and did the best we can from all the experience, support and thoughts we tried to give him. He thanked us, and that if you think about it, was probably a bright spot, considering all his misery he told us about.

2) If you read his post, 1/1 was definetly an emotional day for him anyways - so, whether the day just got the most of him, or he planned it on that day, or what not, we won't know.. people who may have experienced things similar and been in the same position could probably relate some to the emotion, despair, and understand why he made the decision he did, regardless of if you believe it's right or not..

I feel for him, his family and friends, but what has been done can not be undone.. so instead, i think we can only mourn, talk, and share.. i think this thread (the longest one i've seen, btw).. serves all those purposes, and even though time may pass or this thread may pass/end, this thread is certainly quite a memory for me... and i think adjaw would like that (in a good way)

rest in peace..

[Burzhui]

First, I want to thank all of you for caring about John. Though you may have not known him the way I do, I know you all meant a great deal to him. He shared this website with me in the beginning of December because it was too hard for him to come out and talk about it with me. His exact words, written in email to me on Dec 2 were:

"Toni,

Here is the forum I was posting in. Maybe it will help you understand a little better. Sorry it's kind of long, I think the posts and replies are up to 4 pages now.
Sorry I couldn't explain it all when we were talking, it's hard to talk and cry and keep my thoughts together. Please keep this between you and me.

My forum name is 'adjaw' "

I came into work today and found out the details about Johns death.

From what I was told, John decided the best way for him was to asphyxiate himself, which he did by purchasing a helium tank. He inhaled it and went to sleep, to never wake up again. He wrote his exfiance an email before ending it all. She made a courtesy call to the police to have them check on him. That is how he was found.

He also wrote his brother a letter stating that he wants to be cremated and does not want a wake/funeral. I found this out through a coworker of mine who called and spoke to his brother. Once again, the more I find out, the more I will post.

I respect everyones opinions and feelings as to what Johns decision was. I am no one to judge John. He chose what he felt was best for him. I miss him greatly. Some think that this is a hoax, trust me, it is not. My tears and feelings of pain are real, as well as the feelings from family and his other friends. At this point, no one knows who has his cell phone. I would think either the police or his brother may have it.

As far as his ex goes, I would love to kick her extremely hard in the head. I know she will live with this guilt for the rest of her life. Do I feel bad for her? No, but I also don't blame her for the decisoin John made.

Toni


Indeed it sucks, adjaw and i shared a couple of private messages, way before this has happened although related to the issue.

His ex, didn't do anything wrong, adjaw just couldn't handle a breakup. He did not have to kill himself, he chose to do it and his ex is not to blame for his death. People break up all the time, boyfriends and girlfriends, fiances, and those whom are already married. Reasons as to why these break ups occur are also vast, although only a tiny percentage will go as far as commiting suicide. Yes it hurt, yes it was a terrible series of events, but his ex found someone who she was more happy with, and instead of moving on adjaw took his own life, it was no fault but his own

[guiseppewv]

Wow....I am not sure what to say. I cannot beleive this happened. :( I really do not know what to say. :(

[eSDee]

I sincerely hope it is not true. If he has family they must be devestated.

[Antonietta6]

Here is the link for John's obituary

http://www.legacy.com/DailyHerald/Obituaries.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=16217314

[nickel]

Here is the link for John's obituary

http://www.legacy.com/DailyHerald/Obituaries.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=16217314
it doesn't get any truer than that. :(

thanks for the link Antonietta6. my heart goes out to his brothers, nephews, and friends.

[angl2b]

if there was ever any doubt - it is now certain
:cry::neartears :sad: :(

[zero2dash]

Well I guess now we all know why his nickname was 'adjaw'. :( :bawl:
My thoughts & prayers are with his family & friends. Toni, if you need anything, let us know. Hang in there...things will get better.

[Loss4words]

I knew John on a personal level, and was devestated when I found out yesterday. We've been dear friends since 2002, and I have some wonderful memories of time spent together.

He sent me a letter and a couple personal effects, and said goodbye, which I received yesterday. I called 911, but after being patched through to various departments, my worst fear was confirmed. I am still in a state of shock.

I saw him just last week, he came over to wish me a Happy New Year, and let me tell you I didn't see it coming. I knew he'd been devestated when Mary left, and then with the loss of his job, even the happiest person out there would experience some level of depression. I don't know if anything any of us would have said or done could have changed this outcome, but I really wish I could have one more chance. I miss him...and pray that he's found peace.

John had shared this site with me, but I never thought I'd be coming here under these circumstances.

Bec

[eSDee]

Crap. I'm very sorry to hear that it is true. My sympathy to you loss4words, antonietta6, and all of the G|A community who lent their hearts to this anguished soul. He has found peace. I wonder if we ever will.

RIP John. P Wajda

[guiseppewv]

Rest in peace John P. Wajda :(

[Kevster]

I sincerely hope he has finally found peace. I just started reading this thread a couple days ago and was rather shocked when I got to page 5. Rest in Peace, John.

[Loss4words]

Thank you eSDeeloco for your thoughts. I have spoken to John's closest and dearest friend today, and it's clear John had made this decision weeks ago. It's apparent now that he made every effort to touch those of us important in his life over the past few weeks.


I know he came here, and sought comfort, advice and even confided privately with some of you. We can't dwell on what we could have or should have done, nor can we feel any guilt. He made this choice, and for most of you once this thread closes will never give it another thought. I on the otherhand will never forget John.


We couldn't have prevented this, as much as I wish that wasn't true. It's in all of us, the longing and desire to love someone, but even more importantly the want and desire to BE loved I think is greater. No one wants to think of themselves as "unlovable". But that was a great part of John's pain, and what he feared.

It's not this young woman fault, it's not anyone's fault. She will have to make peace with all of this soon enough.

His friend told John that if he think's that ending his life it will end the pain, he's wrong. That pain lives on in his family, his best friend and anyone he's touched. I'm not sure it will ever completely go away.

I imagine at somepoint this thread will end. I plan on printing it out, and placing it with the rest of my mementos.

I wish all of you health and happiness this coming New Year, and hope you all find love.

Bec

[gwilks98]

This is probably the most depressing end to any thread I've seen in the 5 years I've been here.

RIP John. I'm sorry I couldn't offer you the help you needed.

Thank you Bec and Toni for letting us know what happened. The only thing left is to pray we all take something positive from this...some lesson or some experience that makes can help put some higher purpose into what he did.

[PoorAvatar]

loss4words,

I do not agree that when this thread closes, most of us will never give it another thought. I think it has touched everyone's heart who has read this thread and even if, in time, we do not remember John's name, we will remember his soul and spirit. My heart is with everyone whose life he touched.

How did Apex attract such a great group of people who post here... amazing :)

[Yossarian]

Poor is right. there is no possible way to easily forget when someone that we have accepted as our own, and grown to accept as a friend. i never intervened in this thread before, but for some reason, i happened to today. tho i never managed to talk with John, i do know that in the 4+ years i've been here, i have grown to know the men and women(and the kids that i've 'grown up with') very well. not through face to face interaction, but but sharing a part of my life with them that i'm too chicken to put in words to someone I 'know'. we will never forget someone who touched many of us on a personal level, such as John did with some of us.

R.I.P. John, you WILL NOT be forgotten

[angl2b]

Loss - I don't think I will ever forget John either - although I will never feel the deep sense of hurt you, Toni, Dave, and everyone else that knew him in real life - I do feel a sense of hurt - cause I did talk to him - I talked to him - the way I would to any friend - although it is the world wide web - life of the internet - there are those that do care more than just a passing screen name on our monitors.
I think on some level this thread has hit home with some of us - either to relate the sense of loss - his despair - the thoughts that fluttered through his head (those that have tried and wasn't successful) - his great need to be loved and to love - his sense of need for just a friend - and obviously he was a great friend or else you and the rest of his friends wouldn't be on here sharing this with all of us.
John I hope has found the peace of mind he needed and tried finding in the past months. I hope that he can see that he was greatly loved/cared for.

I hope that you, Toni, Dave and the rest of his friends and family find the closure you all need and that you all don't hold this guilt of what if's and if you all did something or noticed something or should of known. Just cherish the great memories you all had with him. He will never be forgotten that way, In our hearts & memories he will always live on.

[Grimm]

I just wanted to say thank you to John's friends who took the time to come let a bunch of strangers know what happened.
It must hurt a lot to talk about this. It's something you didn't have to do.
An excelent indicator of the character of a man is the company he keeps. You two are showing that he was a man of good character.

God bless and keep you.

Grimm

[Guitarman]

I feel terrible about what happened. I read the topic of the post and I was going to give some advice to John, being a 26 year old that is a survivor of a terrible divorce myself. I had actually posted it, but then it asked for my password to login and it was lost.... that's when I noticed the posts at the end. This is probably the most tragic thing that I've ever read online, as it has personally effected so many people's lives, no matter to what degree.....

My uncle recently ended his life, so I can completely empathize with those of you who were close to John. I had a rough few years of sporadic employment and my grandmother was gracious enough to let me live with her for quite a long time. My aunt and uncle (siblings, not married) also lived there. It was the halfway house for lost souls, I guess you could say. After the first few weeks of living there, I knew that there was no talking to him about doing anything to improve his situation in life. He was "too old".... a thought that I believe he probably had convinced himself was true when he was 20, as in my darkest moments, I feel the very same way at only 26. Even 5 1/2 years ago I knew there would be a tragic end for my favorite uncle, and I also knew there was nothing that I, or anybody else, could do about it. I don't think anybody lived with any illusions that he would grow to be an old man. So brilliant he was, and he always had many witty and insightful things to say when you brought him a 30 pack and spent a few hours playing cards or Chess with him. Even my mother who hated him, based only on the fact that he tried to commit suicide 20 years earlier, (as far as I know) said that he could have been the President of the United States. I'm not so naive to belive that were true as all the presidents are predetermined and kids one step up from trailer trash would never make president, but it just speaks of his wasted abilities and talents. She called him "The Mole Man" which, though a very insipid remark, would probably be a very accurate term to describe his everyday behavior.

He was a great man... but a very tortured soul. His straight teeth started to fall out, he'd put on the beer weight.... we all thought he was in pain, though he'd never complain about it... and I think in the end, the money ran out, along with his will to go on. But I've finally been able to put to rest the thoughts in my head regarding his salvation. I don't know what's on the other side, but if we are to be saved, I don't believe he will be denied salvation. He's suffered so long, and though a part of me hates him for having done it, I am happy for him at the same time. Perhaps he isn't suffering anymore on the other side. What horrible, vengeful god would make him suffer for eternity for ending what for him was a excrusiatingly hopeless situation?

As for the girl.... well I don't know her, and it is not my place to judge anyone. There is no doubt that she played a large role in John's tragic death. Is she to blame? I don't believe so... at least, she isn't the only factor in the equation. And did she really act any differently than TV is telling us is ok to act? There seems to be a loss of decency in this country. I suppose maybe it never really was there.... who's to say? I don't have a great deal of faith myself if any, so I hope I'm not comming off as preachy at all. What I can say is that a world without religion is a very scary place for me. No matter what I may be doing at any given time, I take solace in the fact that there are people like my grandparents and some of my aunts and uncles and all of the other people who go to church and at least try to be good. When we all live without, which is what I fear is the global trend.... what is our incentive to be good to each other? What is our incentive not to follow John's footsteps, or my uncles when things look abysmal? Maybe we get a pedicure, or a big screen TV, or a new XBox game to temporarily take away the pain of how much life sucks... I don't know. I've just done 2 out of 3 of those things myself.

Religion or not, I think the one thing we need to take from these losses is that we really need to start thinking about the repurcussions of our actions to those around us again. There's this concept that if we live within the scope of the rules that society has deemed "appropriate", then all is fair game. Well... John was a casualty of this way of selfish thinking. It's human to be indulgant, and it's human to be weak.... but human characteristics also include virtue and love and selflessness too. If we keep blaming our shortcommings on genetics or our parents, then I fear that there will be a rising trend to this tragic ending of life nationwide.... and maybe then, when it's staring us in the face, will we start to think about somebody besides ourselves.

I wish you well, everyone. Friends, family, and even the girl. I know, regardless of what anybody in here or in the real world close to John thinks, that this must be the hardest on her. It was pretty heartless what sh did to him, but if you look in judgement of her actions, than you also put yourself on trial. What makes any of us so virtuous as to be able to judge her and hate her for her choices. Obvoiusly at one point he meant very much to her, and anybody that's human wouldn't be able to put this behind them without a period of greiving and asking themselves "Is this my fault?" or "What could I have done to prevent this." I'm sure more than anybody else, she is the one putting the most blame on herself. But nobody can say that it's her fault this happened... life is far to random, and there are way too many factors. There were probably hundreds or thousands of things running around in his mind that would make him do this. I don't think there are many idiots that take their life. He was undoubtedly brilliant. He had so many thougths running around in his mind that nobody was aware of.... not his ex-fiance, not his friends, not even his own mother. And this is nobodies fault. We all have our own private thoughts, and sometimes they are dangerous. Do not blame yourselves. There is NO one thing that somebody did to him to make him do this. There was nothing anybody could have done for him. He made his choice long ago. If anything, before her betrayal, she may have kept him alive much longer than he would have made it.

In honor of John, and my uncle, and all of those close to us we've lost tragically, let us not wallow in our sorrowful thoughts... Let us not point fingers in hatered and blame... Let us instead rememember the good things about them. The things that would make us smile... The things that made them smile.... and hopefully, one day, we will all be reunited with them. And when we smile to ourselves, remembering all the good things, we can ask ourselves "What could I do today to make somebody else smile". And that will make all the difference.

Best wishes to you all.

[nickel]

i wonder if it would be too much to ask to see a picture of John?
what do you think? was there a picture of him in the paper?

forgive me if my request is out of line.

[gwilks98]

i wonder if it would be too much to ask to see a picture of John?
what do you think? was there a picture of him in the paper?



I agree nickel. I'd like to see a photo just so we could put a face with the name.

I confess to scouring the net to find a (blog, webpage, anything) somewhere...

[Antonietta6]

I have only one picture of John. When I go to my parents house, since my printer is not hooked up, I will scan from her computer and post it for all to see. It's a black and white picture copied from my coworker, so it may not turn out too great online. John looks great in the picture, it's my copy that does not. I'm asking around for more pictures of him. I, unfortunatly, never had the chance to take any pictures with him.

[angl2b]

I confess I looked for it as well - through every person by the name of John on myspace - and that was over 300+ :eek:

[johnsfriend]

I've been John's closest friend for the last 20+years. First I want to thank all of you who listened to John and offered advice. The group here is truly remarkable. As I read over the posts, and speak to many who knew him in life I find that many tried to help him. He was definitely not alone. But he had made his decision. Although I was maybe the closest to him and spent many hours with him over the last couple months, through emails, on the phone, and in person, I was also unable to help. His pain and hopelessness for the future was too much for him to bear. I actually had called 911 when this first happened because I got a 'final' sounding call and email from him. He had just recently moved and I didn't even know his address. So I called the police from that town and gave them all the information I could about him. They found him using his driver's license and went to his apartment, and found him okay. Even though he and I spent much time communicating since then, I think he made his decision and kept it from me and all who knew him. He contacted many people who had been in his life and made a short visit or a small gesture or offered a momento of times they had shared together. Those people were a bit surprised to hear from him after so long, but were glad to see him. His spirit and demeanor showed little or nothing of sadness, or of suicide. But he was saying goodbye to all of us in his own way. I've been with John through many times good and bad, and I didn't see it. I really thought he was getting better. There was still sadness but the occasional smile and laughter seemed genuine. But he was saying goodbye to me too. Over the years John had a series of failed relationships, and jobs, and I think this built up in him a hoplessness for success in either. We all do have a deep need to love and be loved, and to feel successful in life whatever our own definition of success might be. He felt like a loser in love and a loser in life. There was nothing I, or any of us could say or do to change his mind. I don't blame myself, nor do I blame Mary. I only know John's side of the story and I don't think she handled the break up right. But, as I told John, relationships end everyday and very few of them end pleasantly. I also told him, as Loss said, that if he made this choice he would not be ending his pain, he would be assuring that it would live forever in each of the lives he touched. I feel his loss very deeply. His friendship was a very important part of my life, and truly a part of the person I am. I have lost a part of me that can never be replaced. As in many times of tragedy however, people rally together. The efforts, comments and advice of this group have reminded me that the world is filled with good people who are ready and willing to do anything to help especially in difficult times. I thank you all for everything. John and I spent the evening together last Friday. We met at a bar at 5:00pm and stayed until after midnight. He had suggested it a couple weeks earlier as our own little new year's toast. We had a good time. Though there were occasional moments of sadness, that was to be expected. But our conversation didn't center on his lost relationship and his pain. We talked about good times past, and good times to come. He gave little indication of what he was going to do. Only hindsight tells me different. At one point, he described in detail the events of the previous new year, the planning, the engagement, the joy. I really thought he was cleansing himself of the memory. The next night I worked but talked with him on the phone. Again we spoke of the future. There was no sign of finality. This was new year's eve at about 9:00pm. I got off work at 10:30 and headed home for a small celebration with my wife and children. If only I had seen the signs I would have gone to his apartment and gotten him through the hardest time, new year's eve. But I didn't see. I knew him well and he fooled me. If only I could have.....................................................
Many of us who he was in contact with those last couple weeks have said the same thing. Now we can see he was saying goodbye, wanting to leave each of us with a happy memory of his presence in our lives. I have mine, our happy evening together. There is a link a few posts back to his obituary. It has a guestboook and a place for photographs. I signed the guestbook there and invite any who are so inclined to do so as well. I also posted a picture of John and I. He's the dark haired one on the left. He had our waitress take it just after midnight last Friday. His smile seems genuine, yet it is new year's eve 2005. The last day of his life.

[TofuNinja]

I confess I looked for it as well - through every person by the name of John on myspace - and that was over 300+ :eek:

Wow I am still in shock. I hope John is at peace.

I too looked on myspace.... but not for John's profile... for Mary's........
nothing..... too many Mary's in Chicago....not many that have pictures, and that had updated their profile on or after Dec 7th. And none with the blog that John quoted. And none in that 20-23 age range as she was 20 years younger.

I just wanted to put faces with names. but it was not meant to be on that end.

I think John's memory will live on here on this site for some time.

[nickel]

Many of us who he was in contact with those last couple weeks have said the same thing. Now we can see he was saying goodbye, wanting to leave each of us with a happy memory of his presence in our lives. I have mine, our happy evening together. There is a link a few posts back to his obituary. It has a guestboook and a place for photographs. I signed the guestbook there and invite any who are so inclined to do so as well. I also posted a picture of John and I. He's the dark haired one on the left. He had our waitress take it just after midnight last Friday. His smile seems genuine, yet it is new year's eve 2005. The last day of his life.
you do indeed sound like you were a good friend to John. :hug:
and you did all that you could.

i looked on the page you mentioned and see no picture.
http://www.legacy.com/DailyHerald/Guestbook.asp?Page=GuestBook&PersonID=16217314

[DarkFury]

i looked on the page you mentioned and see no picture.
http://www.legacy.com/DailyHerald/Guestbook.asp?Page=GuestBook&PersonID=16217314
She beat me to it... as I was just about to ask the same question.

[zero2dash]

I signed the guestbook; I still can't believe this happened. :disa:
It's gonna take a long time for me to get over this, everyone. :(
I'll never forget you, John. :neartears I hope you're well wherever you may be.

[johnsfriend]

Sorry about the pic not being there yet. I added an entry to the guestbook along with the picture but they review the entries for potentially hurtful comments. My entry was refused because of the sentence "He sure had me fooled". I removed it and resubmitted my entry along with the picture. It should be available later today. I have the 'my space' info on Mary including a picture of both of them, but I'm not sure at this time if I should share it. It includes personal information about her that doesn't really apply here. Also, as I and many have said, it is not her fault. I agree with the poster above who also lost his uncle and said, let's all try to carry some positive memory of this situation throughout our lives. It's what I'm going to do. Thanks again to all who contributed and cared.

[Memo]

Well, I had avoided this thread like I do most really long threads but spent my afternoon at work reading this. I must say, this is some crazy ****. Sucks for the guy and having been through some similar stuff before I can sympathize with how he felt. At least now he is at peace.

And for those interested, Mary's myspace:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=46396818

[kgsilvas]

...i looked on the page you mentioned and see no picture.
http://www.legacy.com/DailyHerald/Guestbook.asp?Page=GuestBook&PersonID=16217314

Did you click the "View the Photo Gallery" tab? That brought me to the picture.

This is so sad. I referred John to a couple of suicide prevention sources, but apparently he wasn't interested. Such a waste...

[angl2b]

Wow I am still in shock. I hope John is at peace.

I too looked on myspace.... but not for John's profile... for Mary's........
nothing..... too many Mary's in Chicago....not many that have pictures, and that had updated their profile on or after Dec 7th. And none with the blog that John quoted. And none in that 20-23 age range as she was 20 years younger.

I just wanted to put faces with names. but it was not meant to be on that end.

I think John's memory will live on here on this site for some time.


yeah I did too - there's a lot of them to go through - but I wasn't successful in finding it.

[booger73]

Nothing against females, or even 21 year olds, or the female in this case, but it's my observation that 21 year old females

1) aren't at a point in their life where they really know what they want from a man, from life, or from a career..
2) i sincerely doubt, and would bet the farm, that she will be with the same current 'boyfriend', marry this person, years from now..

there's something different about being a teenager, versus a college aged person, vs someone in their 30's, and on.. i don't think many people become really responsible until late 20's/early 30's, or if you happen to have to because of marriage or kids.. even though she's not here to 'defend herself' against those points, i would sware to you they're valid..

maybe i feel this way because i hope someone in my past life 'changed' or actually feels some remorse for the same thing she did.. but you can only wonder how "mary" will see this when she grows up.. that in itself should be in my mind, a 'punishment' enough.. and lord, if she doesn't even see it as being such, that really goes to show how much she may have really cared in my mind

[zero2dash]

Mary's Blurbs
About me:
Okay, so I'm really nothing special at all. Let's just say that...I'm the ugly duckling trying to find's its calling. I don't go to school, and I'm not exactly in a solid job. But I do have an amazing boyfriend Brandon, who makes it all worth living through. I will always be thankful to him for always being here for me. As my friends would have noticed, my last profile was used as a suicide note, so this is now my new myspace page. R.I.P. John...you will forever be in my heart.

Who I'd like to meet:
I'm actually mostly just looking for people I already know. I'm not particularly good at making new friends, and I'm already taken. So that leaves me to my old friends...



What a piece of crap. :yell: :pfft:

Yeah...she really cared about John, didn't she. :rolleyes:

It's really sad that he fell for her...really, really sad. :sad:

You know, I know she didn't kill him firsthand, and I'm not even talking about that anymore; I'm just saying that as a human being and as someone who claims to have cared about someone else (at one point in their life), she seems like a certified lying piece of crap to me. No offense, Mary... :rolleyes:

[Grafalgar]

I would suggest exercising caution with Mary's myspace link. Last thing she needs is random strangers coming up to her and giving her angry looks. Threads like this have a nasty habit of spreading, so please be careful.. :(

[zero2dash]

I would suggest exercising caution with Mary's myspace link. Last thing she needs is random strangers coming up to her and giving her angry looks. Threads like this have a nasty habit of spreading, so please be careful.. :(

Oh, don't worry...I won't bother to send her any messages that she'll never be able to comprehend or understand; that would be a waste of time. I don't really think that anyone will send her messages because I think everyone else wouldn't want to waste their time either.

I just generally do not like this person. :2far: Sorry if I come off to anyone as being a "hate monger" or something; I'm not trying to. :heh:

[DarkFury]

Did you click the "View the Photo Gallery" tab? That brought me to the picture.

Please see Johnsfriend's explaination of the situation here:

http://forums.gotapex.com/showpost.php?p=965033&postcount=223

The picture posting had been delayed by the website's editors.

[gwilks98]

I would suggest exercising caution with Mary's myspace link. Last thing she needs is random strangers coming up to her and giving her angry looks. Threads like this have a nasty habit of spreading, so please be careful.. :(
:stupid: Call her what you want on this board, but remember that we only heard John's side of things. I guess he took this avenue to give himself the only closure he could find on the matter.

I think this will be my last post in this thread. Let's let John rest.

[TofuNinja]

I agree. Infact if I would have been savy enouh to find her myspace page I would have offered it up throuhg PMs. Givin Mary the benefit of the doubt, yes she probably feels bad. Many lives have been hurt enough already. And besides, this is John's cyber home court. We were all supporters and fans of his. Of course we will take his side ;)

I also agree that a 21 year old does not know what they want in life. I had my heart beat down in High School by a younger chick.... it sucks because we (due to the age differnce) were not on the same wave length. I will say this, she did come off as a little bit ditsy. They matter of fact way she spoke of the suicide makes me sick and almost makes me not want to hear her side of the story....perhaps John was completely right in his observations of her prior to the new year.

This may be wrong but I just have to say it..... Somebody's got Jungle Fever
;) And there ain't nothing wrong with that. :)

Oh one more thing that I noticed..... I checked out "His" page....very little references to his "girlfriend". And ZERO pictures of her.....I think he is in a few of hers.... Dude is getting action on the side... I think.....maybe not... just seems strange no pics of the GF....

[nickel]

i just looked at the picture. gosh, he was a handsome guy, a very handsome guy, and what a smile. :)

so unfortunate that he didn't listen to family and friends. i'll bet a lot of the same people told him not to get involved with someone half his age either.
i know i would tell someone i cared about that no good would come of it.

as for Mary's myspace link - it's public. i don't see an issue with linking it here. she seems immature from what i've read/seen, and hardly the type to be engaged. the writing was on the wall.

as far as this thread staying open, why not? it's good therapy to put things into words. unfortunately though, that therapy doesn't work for some.

[johnnymk]

so unfortunate that he didn't listen to family and friends. i'll bet a lot of the same people told him not to get involved with someone half his age either.


Ok, since we're getting a little off topic, what do you think is an acceptable maximum age difference? I have often thought about 5 or 6 years older or younger.

[PoorAvatar]

Depends on your age. If your 20, 5 years is too much.

I believe, even not knowing him, that John would want us to celebrate his life and be happy so I'm all for some humor on this thread. Also, until you've walked in someone's shoes, you can't judge them. Everyone has had horrible things happen to them, some worse than others and we are the lucky ones, b/c we survived those things. I think posting here and mostly for me, reading these posts have helped me as well.

But let's also celebrate his life and ours!

[TofuNinja]

When I first saw John's pic I was floored. Not what I pictured at all. He looks like a stud. ANd from what we have heard he was also a super nice guy too.... I think in SUnny So Cal he would have been taken sooooo quick.

[Antonietta6]

John was beautiful inside and out.

I'm having a hard time sleeping at night. I toss and turn for about an hour and still cry everyday because I miss him, sometimes crying myself to sleep. I know in time it will get easier but right now, this is how I will handle his loss. I go smoke outside where we would go everyday just to feel him still near me. When I'm out there, I can hear him laughing at me for always making an ass out of myself or him telling me to shut my yapper because I was always talking, bitching or nagging about something. (hey, I'm female) John and I had a special relationship. I regret taking it for granted and being so distant these past couple of months, when he needed his friends most... (especially because I quit smoking on Nov 13th so I wouldn't go outside being tempted to "bum a smoke"... though I did try to get a puff off his cigarette one day and he refused to let me. He put out his ciagrette so I couldn't smoke. What a great guy! Always looking out for others) I regret not going on vacation with him when he needed to get away most. (right after Mary had moved out, he asked me if I wanted to go on a cruise with him because he needed to get away. I would have gone if I had the funds and vacation time available) The day he did open up to me and tell me everything that was going on, I felt his pain. Just talking to him and seeing how he was no longer this happy guy I had known for so many months, made me cry along with him. What pains me most is that I didn't get to give him a hug or a kiss before he had left work for good on Wednesday. He left at 2:30 and I went into work at 3:30. If I would have made it into work on time at 2:30, at least I would have had a chance to see him one last time. These past 2 weeks we have been working opposite schedules. I had not seen John since probably before Christmas. I wish I had the chance to say goodbye to my wonderful friend.

[PoorAvatar]

My heart is with you!

[Jihforce]

RIP John. Hope you are in a better place now.

[Grimm]

Ok, since we're getting a little off topic, what do you think is an acceptable maximum age difference? I have often thought about 5 or 6 years older or younger.
Statisticaly, 1/2 +7 of the man's age is the optimal age for a sucessful marriage.
So, a couple including a 40 year old man would have the best chances for a happy marriage if she was 27 years old.

I tried to date a much younger woman. It sucked. She was a legal adult, but she seemed so childish. Relationships that disparate are doomed for failure. There is no real communcation. Only the mistaken belief that there is communication.
Mentaly, a 25 year old woman is going to be able to communicate with a 40 year old. A 20 year old will not understand a 40 year old.
At 25 a woman is a distinct individual. She is confident and able to think independantly. At 20 she's still a girl. She is still very much controlled by her enviornment and can not interact with an older adult as a peer.

[ialsohaveadream]

Statisticaly, 1/2 +7 of the man's age is the optimal age for a sucessful marriage.
Hmmm, works for me!

At 25 a woman is a distinct individual. She is confident and able to think independantly. At 20 she's still a girl. She is still very much controlled by her enviornment and can not interact with an older adult as a peer.
Also, they use myspace, which further proves your point.

[nickel]

Statisticaly, 1/2 +7 of the man's age is the optimal age for a sucessful marriage.
So, a couple including a 40 year old man would have the best chances for a happy marriage if she was 27 years old.

I tried to date a much younger woman. It sucked. She was a legal adult, but she seemed so childish. Relationships that disparate are doomed for failure. There is no real communcation. Only the mistaken belief that there is communication.
Mentaly, a 25 year old woman is going to be able to communicate with a 40 year old. A 20 year old will not understand a 40 year old.
At 25 a woman is a distinct individual. She is confident and able to think independantly. At 20 she's still a girl. She is still very much controlled by her enviornment and can not interact with an older adult as a peer.
a 27 y/o woman and a 40 y/o man, i think that's pushing the age gap. i don't know if as the years go on he could keep up with her physically.
he's 50 and she's 37. he's 60 and she's 47. he's 70 and she's 57.

did you read those age difference statistics somewhere?

i'm not saying it couldn't work out, but i wonder if a 13 year age difference is really optimal.

[johnnymk]

a 27 y/o woman and a 40 y/o man, i think that's pushing the age gap. i don't know if as the years go on he could keep up with her physically.
he's 50 and she's 37. he's 60 and she's 47. he's 70 and she's 57.

did you read those age difference statistics somewhere?

i'm not saying it couldn't work out, but i wonder if a 13 year age difference is really optimal.

I agree with you, nickel. In this society where looks are everything, that big of a spread doesn't work. I have often said that you have to accept your own wrinkles before you can accept other's wrinkles or expect others to accept yours. Shallow?.....yes, but that's modern day society.

Plus many men are going impotent around 60 nowadays. If a woman is 47, she is reaching her peak sexually. Result...dissatisfaction in bed.

[Loss4words]

loss4words,

I do not agree that when this thread closes, most of us will never give it another thought. I think it has touched everyone's heart who has read this thread and even if, in time, we do not remember John's name, we will remember his soul and spirit. My heart is with everyone whose life he touched.

How did Apex attract such a great group of people who post here... amazing :)

I apologize for saying that...I know that none of you will ever forget John. I was upset that day, and did not mean to insult any of you.

Bec

[Loss4words]

Toni I hope you have spoken with someone close to you, about how you feel and what has happened. You can't get through this on your own. I know you are hurting.
John had his closure, when he called you, just as he had closure with me when he visited me. But we however were not given that chance, and that's why this is difficult. I can't bring myself to delete his phone number, or his emails.
Focus on a happy memory, and each day will get easier.

[justbeachin]

Bummer, sorry to hear about it... he leaves behind a lot of pain....