Only In America

[Itsme]

Yesterday the guy who started the deadly San Diego fire in October of 1993 was finally sentenced.

He pleaded guilty to setting the fire that ravaged San Diego for weeks, a fire that killed 15 people, and destroyed 2200 homes.

And what did the judge do...he gave the guy 5 years probation, and indicated the fire department should be blamed for not putting the fire out.

This continues the trend of never holding anyone accountable for their actions.

[Mommypooh]

WTF...That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

[MikeD]

This continues the trend of never holding anyone accountable for their actions.

:agree:

Hey, it's the American way! It's always someone else's fault...

[OC]

:agree:

Hey, it's the American way! It's always someone else's fault...:stupid:

[kgsilvas]

...This continues the trend of never holding anyone accountable for their actions.

Unbelievable! Was mental illness considered to be a factor or some orther mitigating circumstance OTHER than that the FD should have put it out? Hmmm, if he hadn't started the fire in the first place... :2far:

[Mommypooh]

Linky!!!!

[angl2b]

wt.....h???
:banghead:

[Itsme]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/fires/20051118-9999-1n18martinez.html

[Mommypooh]

Thank You

[esme]

Yesterday the guy who started the deadly San Diego fire in October of 1993 was finally sentenced.

And what did the judge do...he gave the guy 5 years probation, and indicated the fire department should be blamed for not putting the fire out.



had he been in jail since 1993 or out?

i still think it's ridiculous, though .....this compares good w/the old lady who had sex w/those boys and also provided their booze and drugs ......
:disa:

[zero2dash]

i still think it's ridiculous, though .....this compares good w/the old lady who had sex w/those boys and also provided their booze and drugs ......
:disa:

:agree:

She has consentual sex with underage kids and helps them feel a little better about the world around them being f'd up by giving them alcohol and drugs (probably weed)...and gets 30 years.

This fool starts a fire that causes lots of destruction and kills 15...and he gets PROBATION

:disa: wtf is wrong with the legal/judicial system in this country

[nickel]

Yesterday the guy who started the deadly San Diego fire in October of 1993 was finally sentenced.

He pleaded guilty to setting the fire that ravaged San Diego for weeks, a fire that killed 15 people, and destroyed 2200 homes.

And what did the judge do...he gave the guy 5 years probation, and indicated the fire department should be blamed for not putting the fire out.

This continues the trend of never holding anyone accountable for their actions.
according to the article you linked he got this:

With the option of sending Martinez to prison for up to five years, Benitez instead chose a sentence of six months in a private jail, in which he will have to spend his nights. He will be allowed to continue his job, in construction, during the day and be free on weekends to perform 960 hours of community service rebuilding homes or replanting forests.
in addition to this:

He also placed Martinez on probation for five years and ordered him to pay restitution of $150 a month over that period toward education efforts for outdoors enthusiasts.

i think everyone should read the article you linked before rushing to judgement.
it looks to me like the guy sincerely thought he was lost in the woods and was not going to be found. that is why he started a fire as a distress signal and it did get him rescued.

Martinez was hunting in the Cleveland National Forest south of Pine Hills with Ronald Adkins, a friend from his job, when the two became separated in tall brush Oct. 25, 2003.

Out of water and panicking after being lost for 11 hours, Martinez started a signal fire in hopes of being rescued, he said. A sheriff's helicopter crew, which had been sent to look for Martinez, found him.

Martinez, delirious and unable to walk, had to be dragged and carried to the copter through chaparral more than 8 feet tall.
also, it seems as though the victims generally didn't blame the guy either.

Much of the testimony from victims yesterday centered on the government's response, or lack of one.

Witnesses challenged official accounts of when the fire began, why air crews didn't drop water or fire retardant on it early and how firefighters on the ground acted.

"He started the fire; our firemen let it burn way out of control," said Dona Schneider, who lost her Fernbrook home near Ramona and a friend who was killed in the fire. "I lost my life, but it wasn't because of Sergio."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/fires/20051118-9999-1n18martinez.html

[esme]

Martinez was hunting in the Cleveland National Forest south of Pine Hills with Ronald Adkins, a friend from his job, when the two became separated in tall brush Oct. 25, 2003.

Out of water and panicking after being lost for 11 hours, Martinez started a signal fire in hopes of being rescued, he said. A sheriff's helicopter crew, which had been sent to look for Martinez, found him.

Martinez, delirious and unable to walk, had to be dragged and carried to the copter through chaparral more than 8 feet tall.

Much of the testimony from victims yesterday centered on the government's response, or lack of one.

Witnesses challenged official accounts of when the fire began, why air crews didn't drop water or fire retardant on it early and how firefighters on the ground acted.

"He started the fire; our firemen let it burn way out of control," said Dona Schneider, who lost her Fernbrook home near Ramona and a friend who was killed in the fire. "I lost my life, but it wasn't because of Sergio."

now that's totally different from what i was thinking ........thanks nickel!!

[MikeD]

Out of water and panicking after being lost for 11 hours, Martinez started a signal fire in hopes of being rescued, he said. A sheriff's helicopter crew, which had been sent to look for Martinez, found him.

Martinez, delirious and unable to walk, had to be dragged and carried to the copter through chaparral more than 8 feet tall.

Lost for 11 hours and he panics? No water for 11 hours and he panics?

And when they find him, he's "...delirous and unable to walk"?

Bah, that sounds like a crock to me...

[Itsme]

Lost for 11 hours and he panics? No water for 11 hours and he panics?

And when they find him, he's "...delirous and unable to walk"?

Bah, that sounds like a crock to me...


From the article: Martinez admitted he smoked marijuana the night before but said he didn't smoke any while hunting.

[esme]

From the article: Martinez admitted he smoked marijuana the night before but said he didn't smoke any while hunting.


:umm: .....did they say if they found any evidence of that at the scene ??? b/c that would really change this story

[MikeD]

From the article: Martinez admitted he smoked marijuana the night before but said he didn't smoke any while hunting.

All the more reason to fault the guy, IMO. I'm just not buying what he's selling...

[nickel]

All the more reason to fault the guy, IMO. I'm just not buying what he's selling...
i dunno, if i were lost in the woods for 11 hours and it's dark/cold then starting a fire would definitely top my list if it's going to help me get out of there.

it seems the victims aren't blaming the guy either though.

as far as the pot, the guy was hunting with a buddy. chances are they weren't smoking pot in the woods.

[cheapie]

Lost for 11 hours and he panics? No water for 11 hours and he panics?

And when they find him, he's "...delirous and unable to walk"?

Bah, that sounds like a crock to me...



seriously? 11 hours w/o water crashing through the woods, losing your glasse, and worried you're doing to die? i find that entirely plausible. i've been lost 2-3 hours snowboarding and thought i was going to die for sure because i had no way to climb back up and get back to the resort. i can't imagine trying for an additional 8 hours to save my a$$.

[Prisoner 24601]

That is some really sad crap!!! It was arson and committed murders and gets 5 years probation????

[cheapie]

it was neither arson nor murder. read the article before you start flinging poo. :rolleyes:

[MikeD]

i've been lost 2-3 hours snowboarding and thought i was going to die for sure

We'll be certain to keep the G/A get togethers in the urban setting for ya... ;)

I can see becoming worried after 11 hours (BTW, not 2-3). But delirious? If he did, he shouldn't have. So...I'm still not buying.

[cheapie]

lol. dude...i've done plenty of hiking and biking out in the wild. that's what forms the basis of my opinions. i have had plenty of water and food and still been stumbling and almost out of my mind with exhaustion before. thankfully i've only been lost one time and it's pretty freaky!

[tupacboy]

wow... the link made a huge difference in my judgement...

[Itsme]

Here's another article, from a different newspaper.

Some notes:

1. Investigators looking into the fire later found Martinez's glass marijuana pipe about 30 feet from the spot where the fire had started.

2. There were in fact victims who testified who wanted the maximum sentence.

3. If the judge says he should get off because locking him up would do no good, he should be allowed to go to work each day to make money, etc....couldn't you say that for just about every person who is found guilty of a crime?


========================================================
Hunter gets probation, halfway house term for setting Cedar fire

By: TERI FIGUEROA - Staff Writer

SAN DIEGO ---- The hunter who admitted setting the deadly 2003 Cedar fire will not be spending any time behind bars. But Sergio Martinez will be on probation for the next five years and will spend six months in minimum-security confinement, which he will be allowed to leave for work and other commitments, U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez decided Thursday night.

Martinez's sentence ---- which also includes restitution of $9,000 ---- was handed down for his role in setting what became the largest wildfire in California's history, a blaze that killed 15 people and reduced more than 2,200 homes to ashes.

The novice hunter faced a maximum of five years in prison after pleading guilty in March to setting the Oct. 25, 2003, blaze to signal for help after he got lost in the thick, chest-high grass that once carpeted the Kessler Flats area of the Cleveland National Forest in San Diego county's backcountry.

"If I thought Mr. Martinez set the fire maliciously, five years (in prison) would not have been enough," Benitez said.

"The time that I impose, if any, is not going to bring any loved ones back," the judge added soon after. "It's not going to bring any property back."

Martinez said he was dehydrated and disoriented when he set the fire. Martinez cried while addressing the court before the sentencing.

"I would like to apologize to all the people who lost loved ones, family members, property and animals," Martinez said to a packed courtroom through his tears. "I pray for you every day. I know they are in a better place with God. I wish I was dead instead. This is killing me. I am sorry."

Fire victims also testify
After Martinez left the witness stand Thursday, Judge Benitez heard from 16 fire victims. Some blamed the fire on an allegedly slow response by officials and thus wanted leniency for Martinez; others wanted him to get the five-year maximum sentence.

As she addressed the judge, fire victim Kelly Williams turned to Martinez and said she had come to hear him say he was sorry.

"I was so glad when you said it," Williams, now an El Cajon resident, said. "When you said it, I could hear in your words that you meant it."

Williams, who lost everything when her Wildcat Canyon home burned down, went on to say that she forgave Martinez ---- but still wanted him to spend five years in prison.

"If you spend five years in jail, it's like spending one day for each house you burned down."

Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Lasater, who prosecuted the case, had pushed for Martinez to get the maximum sentence. When asked how he felt about Martinez's sentence, Lasater said little.

"We made our presentation and we believed it was appropriate," Lasater said.

Aside from probation and the six months in minimum-security confinement, Benitez also sentenced Martinez to 900 hours of community service, to be spent with an organization that helped rebuild communities after the fire. And the $9,000 restitution will get funneled to the U.S. Forest Service to help teach outdoor safety for hunters and hikers.

Before handing down the sentence, Judge Benitez said he was struck when he heard that Martinez had taken a course in hunting safety in 2002 and had learned from the course to set a fire if he got lost.

"He did exactly, exactly what he is supposed to do under those circumstances," Benitez said.

The judge went on to explain that Martinez's situation was different than that of a defendant who had been negligent by, say, tossing a cigarette butt out of a window.

The signal fire, fueled by dry vegetation and pushed by Santa Ana winds, tore through hundreds of thousands of acres in San Diego County, destroying parts of Poway, Ramona, Scripps Ranch and East County.

Lost in the brush
In the most complete version Martinez has recounted publicly of the events leading to the fire, he admitted that the night before his foray into the forest, he had smoked marijuana by himself and slipped the pipe and lighter in the pocket of his hunting vest.

He said he had not smoked marijuana on the day of the trip. Investigators looking into the fire later found Martinez's glass marijuana pipe about 30 feet from the spot where the fire had started.

Martinez said that he was following his hunting buddy, Ronald Adkins, but they were separated around 10 a.m. when Adkins was ahead of him in the tall brush.

"I didn't call out because he was all paranoid about my making noise (that might disturb the deer)," Martinez said. "I should have said something, but I didn't."

It was then, Martinez said, that he began wandering through the brush, up and down hills.

"To this day, I don't know which direction I went," Martinez said, adding later: "Little did I know I was going in the wrong direction."

Martinez said he took along a canteen of water, but had failed to fill it entirely. He said he wandered a bit, the day got hotter, and fear of dehydration set in.

"The more I tried to find my way, the deeper I was getting," Martinez said. "I was going in circles. Everything was looking the same."

He said he started falling down hills and, at some point, lost his prescription sunglasses. His thirst was getting worse, he said, and was "sucking the life out of me."

He fell many times, he said, and claimed he sprained his ankle when it got caught in rock.

Finally, he said, he gathered sticks and set them on fire. "I hated to do it," he said, adding that he put that first fire out, then shortly thereafter decided to set another signal fire.

"That wasn't Sergio up there," Martinez said. "That was a man who was dying."

San Diego County Sheriff's Department deputies, in a helicopter searching the forest for Martinez, soon rescued him.

Sending a message
After Martinez testified, fire victims got their time before the judge.

Donna Mulholland, who lived in an East County community devastated by the fires, tossed a whistle ---- the kind used by hunters to signal for help if they get lost ---- on the desk in front of Martinez.

"It's a gift to Mr. Martinez from the community," Mulholland said. "Next time you get lost, head west. When your feet are wet, then start fires."

Benitez rejected requests by some fire victims who spoke in court Thursday to give Martinez the maximum five-year sentence in order to "send a message."

"I'd like to send a message that ... the law doesn't lack compassion and understanding," Benitez said.

Benitez said he had "struggled with the case for several months now" and wondered aloud if it would be just to send the West Covina man to prison for five years, and see him lose his longtime job.

After learning he would be avoiding jail time, Martinez told the throng of reporters gathered outside of the courthouse that, "God has given me a second chance."

Later, as Martinez crossed the street to leave, an extremely agitated stranger confronted him. Martinez and his family sought refuge back at the courthouse. The stranger followed, cursing and yelling, apparently upset that Martinez had received probation.

[doolittle]

The Guy Panicked and Did something really stupid that indirectly hurt allot of people, including myself and my neighbors and most of residents of the sixth largest city in the states. Should he do jail time? probably not. I do think that he should do allot more community service than 995 hours too help payback losses, some of witch can never be repaid.
Comparing his crime to the Party Mom however, I think if their sentences were reversed “the time would fit the crime” 30 years is quite a severe sentence for premeditated stupidity that probably psychologically changed and possibly damaged those boys forever. I doubt most of them lost any sleep over it, before it went to trial.
"Only in america" is the perfect topic for these unexplainable verdicts

[nickel]

Here's another article, from a different newspaper.

Some notes:

1. Investigators looking into the fire later found Martinez's glass marijuana pipe about 30 feet from the spot where the fire had started.

2. There were in fact victims who testified who wanted the maximum sentence.

3. If the judge says he should get off because locking him up would do no good, he should be allowed to go to work each day to make money, etc....couldn't you say that for just about every person who is found guilty of a crime?


========================================================
1. Are you saying he smoked pot which made him start the fire or that his discarded pot pipe started the fire?
Sounds to me like he had the pipe on him and ditched it before he got rescued because he didn't want to get caught with it.
I don't see where this comes into play as far as his guilt in this case.

2. Sounds like there were more victims who didn't put the blame for the fire getting out of control on him.

However, most of the 16 people who testified blamed government agencies for the spread of the fire, saying they did not react quickly enough.

3. Judge Benitez said ""I see no point in him losing his job and becoming a burden on society."
I have to agree with him.
Also:

Benitez noted that a hunting safety class Martinez, of West Covina, attended in 2002 recommended setting a signal fire as a last resort when lost. He contrasted Martinez's case with those involving arson, playing with fireworks or throwing cigarettes out of a car window.

You can't compare this case to "every person who is found guilty of a crime."
Crimes differ, and punishments differ.

[MikeD]

So we have a guy who:


Admittedly smoked pot the night before the trip. Says he didn't the day of, but can't be conclusively proven. He just as easily could have.

Got lost (could happen to anyone), but decided to set a fire in a state notorious for killer wildfires.

Started the largest wildfire in the history of the state.

Killed 15 people, destroyed 2,200 (2,200!!!) homes. Think of the impact on those lives.


I understand that he's remorseful. Bottom line, he made some poor decisions that cost peoples lives and inflicted unmeasureable pain and suffering against many, many surviving friends and family members.

It's a bad situation. The guy seems decent. But I'm sure those families would love to have their 15 family members spending the holidays with them this year, too.

[nickel]

So we have a guy who:


Admittedly smoked pot the night before the trip. Says he didn't the day of, but can't be conclusively proven. He just as easily could have.

Got lost (could happen to anyone), but decided to set a fire in a state notorious for killer wildfires.

Started the largest wildfire in the history of the state.

Killed 15 people, destroyed 2,200 (2,200!!!) homes. Think of the impact on those lives.


I understand that he's remorseful. Bottom line, he made some poor decisions that cost peoples lives and inflicted unmeasureable pain and suffering against many, many surviving friends and family members.

It's a bad situation. The guy seems decent. But I'm sure those families would love to have their 15 family members spending the holidays with them this year, too.
what does the pot have to do with it? i can't seem to get an answer.

[Thesifer]

From the article: Martinez admitted he smoked marijuana the night before but said he didn't smoke any while hunting.


First off, whether he smoked it the night before or even during that time, that would not cause anything to happen differently. Except maybe make him a bit more paranoid that he wasn't going to get found and was going to die in the woods.

[MikeD]

what does the pot have to do with it? i can't seem to get an answer.

If he's smoking pot during the hunt it may add to why he got lost. If he doesn't get lost, he doesn't burn down half of California...

He can't prove he wasn't smoking pot that day. Odds are he was. Why would he take it along for a hunt if he wasn' planning on using it?

[ufcrusher]

The guy admits that he was stupid and a bad hunter, but he did not do this intentionally. For those people who dont live in San Diego, its not a lush tropical paradise. San Diego is basically reclaimed desert, with only the areas that are watered by the inhabitants really being green. Once you go anywhere inland, it becomes either thick semi-arid scrub land, full on desert, or in the mountain areas where they get more rain, some pine forest.

It is extremely easy to get dehyrdrated out here and many people have died, come close to dying, or been severely injured in little more than a day without water. If you have ever gone hiking in this area, you will realize how much water you lose and how much you drink to prevent yourself from being dehydrated.

We were having near Santa Ana winds at the time, meaning that it was coming from the east over the mountains, which generally are faster and much drier as the result fo coming in over the deserts.

The guys condition was not good when he was found. The problem that they had was that with Santa Ana winds even a spark from a cigarette can create a wild fire. The land is extremely dried out and once its started, the winds power it...making it not only spread exceptionally fast, but also causing it to jump all over the palce.

Had it not been Santa Ana conditions, he still screwed up by not creating a proper fire ring or worrying about clearing areas from the surrounding area.

I know that according to several sources, it says that they found a glass pipe in proximity to where he was found when they went back after the fact. Our local news stated that there was no mention of the pipe during the trial, which makes that claim that one was found seem suspect.

The other aspects were that the fire department did not respond to certain reports of the fire within a timely manner. Had they responded to the first reports about the fire, there is speculation that they could have stopped all the damage that happened in Scripps Ranch and Poway areas. I dont recall the time line as its been many years since this happened, but there was I believe a 25 minute gap between the first calls of smoke spotted to the first response to additional calls about a fire in that area. The fire investigators also said that the SD fire departments inability to combat fires at night from the air severely hampered their effort and allowed the fire to grow many orders of magnitude.

While there is no question that the hunter made a disasterous choice to set a signal fire, BUT he HONESTLY felt that his life was in danger AND it would have been the correct step in different conditions. He would have been guilty of negligence in starting the fire, but the fire departments lack of response was so bad that it helps mitigate the circumstances.

It also appeared that MANY of those people who would have stated that the hunter should not be charged were not informed of the trial. (Another gem from the local news report last night.)

[nickel]

If he's smoking pot during the hunt it may add to why he got lost. If he doesn't get lost, he doesn't burn down half of California...

He can't prove he wasn't smoking pot that day. Odds are he was. Why would he take it along for a hunt if he wasn' planning on using it?
maybe, but why someone would hunt and smoke pot at the same time is beyond me.
the two activities really aren't compatible.

[MikeD]

maybe, but why someone would hunt and smoke pot at the same time is beyond me.
the two activities really aren't compatible.

Maybe we should ask those 15 people...oh wait, they're dead. :(

Ehhh, we just see it from different views. No biggie...

In a sense, I'm glad the guy can move because he seems remorseful. On the other hand, that's alot of pain inflicted. Hope those folks have been able to move on.

[nickel]

Maybe we should ask those 15 people...oh wait, they're dead. :(

Ehhh, we just see it from different views. No biggie...

In a sense, I'm glad the guy can move because he seems remorseful. On the other hand, that's alot of pain inflicted. Hope those folks have been able to move on.
yes, we do have different views on this, but we can celebrate our differences. :laugh:

seriously though, i am still falling back on these people, who were most likely relatives of the dead, not blaming the guy.

However, most of the 16 people who testified blamed government agencies for the spread of the fire, saying they did not react quickly enough.

[MikeD]

seriously though, i am still falling back on these people, who were most likely relatives of the dead, not blaming the guy.

And I still say death penalty.

(J/K)

[esme]

i do think that they should've given him more hours of community service .....