War on Brats

[OC]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0511/20/A23-387307.htm

Excerpts:

Bridget Dehl shushed her 21-month-old son Gavin, then clapped a hand over his mouth to squelch his tiny screams amid the Sunday brunch bustle. When Gavin kept yelping "yeah, yeah, yeah," Dehl quickly whisked him from his highchair and out the door.

Right past the sign warning the cafe's customers that "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices when coming to A Taste of Heaven," and right into a nasty spat roiling the stroller set in Chicago's changing Andersonville neighborhood.

The owner of A Taste of Heaven, Dan McCauley, said he posted the sign -- at child level, with playful handprints -- in the hope of quieting his tin-ceilinged cafe, where toddlers have been known to sprawl between tables and hurl themselves at display cases for sport.

But many neighborhood mothers took umbrage at the implied criticism of how they handle their children. Soon, whispers of a boycott passed among the playgroups in this North Side hamlet, once an outpost of edgy artists and hip gay couples but now a hot real estate market for young professional families shunning the suburbs.

"I love people who don't have children who tell you how to parent," said Alison Miller, 35, a psychologist, corporate coach and mother of two. "I'd love for him to be responsible for three children for the next year and see if he can control the volume of their voices every minute of the day."

McCauley, 44, said the protesting parents are "former cheerleaders and beauty queens" who "have a very strong sense of entitlement." In an open letter to the community, he warned of an "epidemic" of anti-social behavior.

"Part of parenting skills is teaching kids they behave differently in a restaurant than they do on the playground," McCauley said. "If you send out positive energy, positive energy returns to you. If you send out energy that says I'm the only one that matters, it's going to be a pretty chaotic world."

**

After a dozen years at one site, McCauley moved A Taste of Heaven six blocks away in May 2004, to a busy corner on Clark Street. The clientele is whiter, wealthier and louder, he said. Teachers and writers seeking afternoon refuge were drowned out not just by children running amok but also by oblivious cell phone chatterers.

Children were climbing the cafe's poles. A couple were blithely reading the newspaper while their daughter lay on the floor blocking the line for coffee. When the family whose children were running across the room to flail themselves against the display cases left after his admonishment, McCauley recalled, the restaurant erupted in applause.

So he put up the sign. Then things really got ugly.

"The looks I would get when I went in there made me so nervous that I would try to buy the food as fast as I could and get out," said Laura Brauer, 40, who has stopped visiting Taste with her two kids.

"I think that the mothers who allow their kids to run around and scream, that's wrong, but kids scream and there is nothing you can do about it. What are we supposed to do, not enjoy ourselves at a cafe?"

Miller said that one day when her son, then 4 months old, was fussing, a staff member rolled her eyes and announced for all to hear, "We've got a screamer!"

Kim Cavitt recalled having coffee and a cookie one afternoon with her boisterous 2-year-old when "someone came over and said you just need to keep her quiet or you need to leave."

"We left, and we haven't been back since," Cavitt said. "You go to a coffee shop or a bakery for a rest, to relax, and that you would have to worry the whole time about your child doing something that children do -- really what they're saying is they don't welcome children, they want the child to behave like an adult."

[chrissy]

a coffee shop isn't the place for children.

This is a prime example of adults focusing on themselves and not what their childrens needs are.

Yes, children act that way. Most of the time when parent's have dragged them shopping through countless stores, shoving suckers and chocolate or whatever the child wants at the checkout lanes to pacify them.

I am not saying that this is the only reason. Patrick is going through the "I discovered I can scream like a heavy metal female rocker" stage and shrills at the top of his lungs when he is upset or angry. Would I take him into a coffee house right now? no. I stopped taking him places where adults go to be adults a while ago.

Maybe there is a niche (sp) for this. One of those discovery zone type play areas with gourmet coffee for the parents.

[Mommypooh]

"We left, and we haven't been back since," Cavitt said. "You go to a coffee shop or a bakery for a rest, to relax, and that you would have to worry the whole time about your child doing something that children do -- really what they're saying is they don't welcome children, they want the child to behave like an adult."

so they get to relax while thier children make is so no one else can? If you are a parent and want to go to a cafe to rest and relax then you need to hire a babysitter. It is my job as a parent to teach my children to behave in public. If they get out of hand we leave. I have left many a meal untouched because of my children. I am sure if a child crys out and then is quieted it would be fine. but to say the you have to worry about what your child is doind the whole time, Ummmm...yeah that is the idea of being parent. you worry and watch and make sure they behave.

[dbax791]

I think a war on brats is appropriate.

Next up: Polish sausage and hot dogs!

[MikeD]

It is my job as a parent to teach my children to behave in public. If they get out of hand we leave. I have left many a meal untouched because of my children...that is the idea of being parent. you worry and watch and make sure they behave.

:agree:

Couldn't have been stated better. It is the parent's responsibility to make sure that their children behave and are well mannered. When your children infringe on the shopping / dining experience of others, that's a problem that must be addressed by the parent and not the establishment they're in.

[cheapie]

but kids scream and there is nothing you can do about it. What are we supposed to do, not enjoy ourselves at a cafe?"

ha! complete and utter nonsense. people compliment us constantly on the behavior of kids at restaurants. but it's not by accident. we work hard on the behaviors at home so that when we're out we can count on them to behave like we want when we take them out.

of course they occasionally misbehave so i'm not saying we or our kids are perfect.

[Markel]

I think a war on brats is appropriate.

Next up: Polish sausage and hot dogs!
And don't forget the war against the Cheeseheads! I LOVE seeing the Packers in the cellar! :D

[gear02]

Unfortunately, there are parents who are not as good or as considerate as you Cheapie and Mommypooh, and that's who the sign is for.

[DarkFury]

Honestly, I don't fault this policy...

DFJ can be a handful sometimes... however he knows to "behave" in a restaurant... or else he gonna "get it" (and he knows what "it" is...) :hmm: :nono:

Pretty much, if people are letting their kids do whatever in a restaurant (like having them throw tantrums in the aisles, laying down in the walkways, and running about the place with no control) then honestly, they should expect rules like this to curb that behavior.

This is no different than a movie theater and crying babies... if they aren't old enough to watch quietly either a) take them outside and take care of the problem, or b) leave them with a sitter or relative, or c) don't take them to those places.

Kids definitely need to learn to respect their environments.... ("Just can't take you nowhere... hmmmph!!! :angry:) :heh: :hihi:

[Markel]

There have been times when I've been in public (such as shopping in a store) when I am amazed to see a parent appear oblivious to their brat screaming his/her head off: I WANT....:bawl::ugh::cry:. I can imagine that in a reastaurant this would really be annoying.

[Mommypooh]

BigJon and I were at a restaurant with some friends when Gabby was a little girl and there was another group of people sitting near us and they had like 3 little kids all of them were running around laying on the floor crawling under tables and just totally acting like fools. Well the parents were just ignoring it and carrieing on a conversation, and Gabby wanted to get down and play too. Well I looked at her and told her NO We don't act like that in public those kids are bad, and need to be spanked. Well she settled down and just watched them everyonce in a while protesting but she knew that was not how you act in public and she was only I think 20-21 months old. I know that becuase I was getting ready to pop with her brother.

[BigJon]

There have been times when I've been in public (such as shopping in a store)....
That reminds me of a time when we were at a grocery store and our oldest was crying because she wanted something. We just laughed and gave in. Of all the things she wanted...it wasn't candy, or toys, or cereal....she just wanted to eat one of the banannas we had in the cart.

One of the people standing in line was chuckling because they found it so funny that she just wanted the healthy food.

She of course quit crying after we gave her the bananna. That's about the only time we've ever had problems with her in the store.

[Freelance Superhero]

well, i dunno if i'm in any place to speak, because i was one of those hyperactive kids, complete with harness/leash and everything, but i couldn't agree more with what you all have said. sure, kids act like that sometimes, but either you teach them not to do that when it's inappropriate, or you just don't go to those kinds of places with them in tow.

freakin yuppies...

[riskykougra]

I am the mother of 3 boisterous boys and I also waitressed for more than 10 years and never once did I allow my children to get up and run around in a restaurant or to be so loud as to disturb other patrons. I think that is inconsiderate not to mention dangerous for the child and the wait staff. I cant tell you how many parents just dont care how their children are behaving as long as the parents get their dinner.I dont know if they think letting their children act like animals will speed things up for them but in my experience it just slowed everything down because we were then always having to watch we didnt trip on brats lying on the floor or bang into them with our coffee pots if they just appeared out of no where. And where I worked it was a "Family Dinner" so we had to tolerate it to a certain point until we thought it might become too dangerous. Some people are just very inconsiderate of others when it comes to their children, they just dont seem to notice how they are behaving or dont seem to care its wrong.

[ArkiStan]

Funny. I just saw this last night.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/car/112264477.html

[Jcranmer]

This is no different than a movie theater and crying babies... if they aren't old enough to watch quietly either a) take them outside and take care of the problem, or b) leave them with a sitter or relative, or c) don't take them to those places.


This is the entire reason I quit going out to see movies. I haven't been to a theater in more then 5 or 6 years. I just wait for the DVD no matter how badly I would like to see the movie sooner.

[mcs328]

Not to mention the potential lawsuits the parents can apply for if god forbid their own children run around and hit a pole or a display falls on them or bumps into a staff person who spills hot coffee on them. I think if it's a private establishment then the store can set whatever policy they want that doesn't violate some constitutional right.

[Mommypooh]

well for clarification I wasn't a brat that got away with everything when I lived with my Grandparents, I was raised to be seen and not heard, well then I moved in with my mom and that was when I became a brat and started to get away with everything, then my brother came along and he was far worse and everything he did was my fault. I have 2 brother's that I am inbarrassed to be seen with in public as they are hethens to run amok and my mom just does the honey don't do that, child ignores her, honey come sit down, child ignores her. and it goes on and on and on. When i take them in public without her, you better believe they behave because if the dont' I have no problems busting their buttt in the middle of a restaurant, or store or where ever we are. I will not tolerate this behavior.

[cheapie]

wow. that paragraph is a mess. :heh:

[Mommypooh]

what do you expect I have two kids whinning and I have only been up for about 15 min. so I am not awake yet. If you wnat to fix it I will repost it.

[cheapie]

it's 10:15!!!! wake up sleepyhead! the day is almost 1/2 over.



/old person

[kgsilvas]

It's not a war on brats, it's a direction to unclear or oblivious parents. I say ditto to all of the posts above about parental obligation. (Except the cheapie Mommypooh exchange, that's between them :winkie:)

[LegendKiller]

Steph and I see this all of the time and we are amazed at how parents let their kids act. To blame it on the store is stupid.

As mentioned before, people who expect society to adapt to them while they disturb society are inconsiderate, rude, and self-centered. We see it in the movies when people talk, use phones (including flipping them open every 15min to text with annoying blue lights), and have babies. We also see it in stores and such.


Some parents suck.

[johnnymk]

:stupid:


There have been times when I've been in public (such as shopping in a store) when I am amazed to see a parent appear oblivious to their brat screaming his/her head off: I WANT....:bawl::ugh::cry:. I can imagine that in a reastaurant this would really be annoying.

Have you ever noticed that those kind of parents have that numb dumba$$ trailer trash look about them?:laugh:

[cheapie]

i don't really think it's relegated to them. there are just as much rich parents that think little johnny is the next nobel laureate and don't want to stifle their creativity by making them stay in their high chair or decide in under 5 minutes whether or not they want sprinkles on their sundae.

[nickel]

mmm, grilled brats :lick:
http://www.connectionsweekly.com/archives/june/06.01.05/images/food2.jpg

[LegendKiller]

i don't really think it's relegated to them. there are just as much rich parents that think little johnny is the next nobel laureate and don't want to stifle their creativity by making them stay in their high chair or decide in under 5 minutes whether or not they want sprinkles on their sundae.


I agree.

Unfortunately I see this behavior in my niece. My brother really doesn't take crap when he's around. She misbehaves and he lays down the law while being patient in a stern way. However, my SIL gets all pissy, upset, and then ultimately concedes since she doesn't want to deal with it anymore.

The double standard is horrible for kids in general. Parent need to be stern but understanding. They also need to establish a public behavior much earlier.

Cheapie is right, many parents don't want to stifle their kids and also want to be best friends rather than people who rear kids to be incorporated into society.

[MikeD]

many parents don't want to stifle their kids and also want to be best friends rather than people who rear kids to be incorporated into society.

I tell my kids all the time: "I'm not your best friend, I'm your father".

:agree: with LK. I'm not here to be your friend. We can be friends, but my job is to be the father.

[Markel]

it's 10:15!!!! wake up sleepyhead! the day is almost 1/2 over.

/old person
Haha - that's about when I got up this morning. I love vacation. :D

[esme]

i know i'm getting closer and closer to this :gle:

i've taken my daughter out to restaurants a few times now. she doesn't scream, cry or any of that. I keep everything out of reach, keep her in her high chair the entire time (she's been walking since 9mo) .....but she likes to bang her zippy cup against anything that will make noise! so i have to be prepared to grab it once she's done drinking ....once she's done she'll hand it to me but if i don't grab it right away she'll start banging it :rolleyes:

she's still young, but i'm trying to make her understand what and where it's acceptable & unacceptable ....we'll see how that turns out later :|

[zero2dash]

I hate parents who physically make a child but don't actually do the rest (ie teach their children to behave, keep an eye on them, discipline them when they don't behave). These are the same parents who come on tv when they don't watch their kids and they run around outside unsupervised and then someone hits them with a car or they are injured otherwise and/or (worse off) killed and then the parent is on the news either complaining or crying wolf "oh my god my poor little johnny". :mad:

It's funny how as a parent myself, I can look at other parents and realize how I should or should not raise my child...it's not rocket science and you don't need a degree...just pay attention to/hang around a couple of idiot parents once or twice and you'll know what not to do. :disa:

[Markel]

What's even more pathetic is when decently raised kids look at you in amazement as the observe brats misbehave with no apparent penalty - it's as if they're wondering, "Hey, how come they get to get away with that? If I behaved that way, I'd be in BIG trouble!"

[cheapie]

my neighbors are like that. they tell her things over and over and over.....

then they tell me, "your kids are so good. i wish our girl obeyed like that."

well...if you disciplined her the same way you see us doing she would be. :rolleyes: she obeys my wife and i without any problem or resentment. she just knows her boundaries around us. and she knows she has barely any w/her parents.

i really think it would benefit parents if they took the child psych class i had in college.

[Grimm]

i really think it would benefit parents if they took the child psych class i had in college.
Unfortunately, most parents buy a book by a "child psychiatrist" that has absolutely no clue in child rearing, just a bunch of book learning and then consider themselves to be the best parents in the world because they read that one book.
Maybe if we started holding parnets responsible for their children's behavior they would start to care more. "Mr. Jones, your son was just arrested for destruction of property. Will you or your wife be coming to jail?"
Think of the quality time they could spend together.

[speedracer120]

One word, boundaries. Some people even as adults have no boundaries. That's why I hated Jackass and Stevo and all that crap. I can't believe Stevo's parents just sat there laughed at all the outlandish crap that went on in their house.

[MikeD]

As it relates to behavior:

The parents of poorly behaving children know they have bad kids.
The parents of well behaved children know they have good kids.

At the end of the day, that's all that really matters. I know I've got well behaved who have been raised in an "old school" environment. Other parents? Hell, if their kids are bad that's their problem. All I can worry about is how my kids turn out, and I do all I can to make sure we raise high quality children.

I'll admit that my kids don't have it easy in our household. Hell, we have our 3 year old clear the table every night. It's his job to do, and we only help if he's got something that's too big for him to carry.

It's how I was raised, it's how they're being raised, and I'll take my chances with what the end result will bring.