No clemency for Tookie [Archive] - HP Deals, Computer Coupons And Bargains

esme

12-12-2005, 03:14 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10355657/

http://media.msnbc.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/sourceAP.gif SAN FRANCISCO - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Monday refused to spare the life of Stanley Tookie Williams, the founder of the murderous Crips gang who awaited execution after midnight in a case that set off a debate over the possibility of redemption on death row.

Schwarzenegger said he was unconvinced that Williams had had a change of heart, and he was unswayed by pleas from Hollywood stars and capital punishment foes who said the inmate had made amends by writing children’s books about the dangers of gangs.

“Is Williams’ redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?” Schwarzenegger wrote less than 12 hours before the execution. “Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption.”

He added: “The facts do not justify overturning the jury’s verdict or the decisions of the courts in this case.”

With a reprieve from the courts considered unlikely, Williams, 51, was set to die by injection at San Quentin State Prison early Tuesday for murdering four people during two 1979 holdups

cadetevon

12-12-2005, 03:27 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10355657/

Hum. I wonder if there will be riots in SD.

esme

12-12-2005, 03:35 PM

i think it might cause some chaos when he's actually executed .....hopefully people don't get out of control, though

Prisoner 24601

12-12-2005, 04:08 PM

SD?? How about SF and especially LA?!!!!

cadetevon

12-12-2005, 04:12 PM

SD?? How about SF and especially LA?!!!!
Ca'mon now.... no yelling, eh? :) :cheers:

See, the thing is, I don't live in SF or LA. I live in SD and we do, indeed, have both Crips and Bloods.

esme

12-12-2005, 04:13 PM

i think LA would be the worst, that is if there are any riots

gear02

12-12-2005, 04:24 PM

Itsme

12-12-2005, 04:33 PM

Interesting take on a monring talk radio show.

Tookie wants credit for all the people he influenced to take the correct path in their lives. Well, how about all the people Tookie influenced to take the wrong path...to join the gangs and kill thousands of people in Southern California. If he wants credit, it swings both ways.

eSDee

12-12-2005, 04:33 PM

Gear, that's not accurate because he didn't just do charity work. He won the Nobel Peace Prize, which is pretty significant. I understand your point, I just wanted to clarify that it is a lot more than just some charity work.

I also don't think there will be any riots. The people that are fighting for his clemency are not gang-bangers, but rather peaceful citizens.

LPMiller

12-12-2005, 04:35 PM

i really don't understand how he should even be considered clemency. He founded one of the most notorious gangs in the US. I don't care what he has done since. Letting him out would be like letting out Osama (if he's caught) because he's done charity work in prison.

clemancy is just a revoking of the death penalty, it is not letting him get out of jail.

Gear, that's not accurate because he didn't just do charity work. He won the Nobel Peace Prize, which is pretty significant. I understand your point, I just wanted to clarify that it is a lot more than just some charity work.

I also don't think there will be any riots. The people that are fighting for his clemency are not gang-bangers, but rather peaceful citizens.

tookie did not win the Nobel prize, he was nominated, which isn't near as big a deal.

Sirrich3

12-12-2005, 04:38 PM

We'll just have to see what the night brings...What time is this supposed to happen anyways? 12:01?

esme

12-12-2005, 04:38 PM

We'll just have to see what the night brings...What time is this supposed to happen anyways? 12:01?

yup!! :thumbup:

Interesting take on a monring talk radio show.

Tookie wants credit for all the people he influenced to take the correct path in their lives. Well, how about all the people Tookie influenced to take the wrong path...to join the gangs and kill thousands of people in Southern California. If he wants credit, it swings both ways.

i agree w/the statement above. EVERYTHING he's done has to be taken into consideration .....regardless of how long ago, how good he's been and all that

Houdini

12-12-2005, 05:57 PM

Gear, that's not accurate because he didn't just do charity work. He won the Nobel Peace Prize, which is pretty significant. I understand your point, I just wanted to clarify that it is a lot more than just some charity work.

He never won the prize. He was only nominated for it by some fanatics. I could nominate my dog if I wanted to.

eSDee

12-12-2005, 06:03 PM

Hmm I thought he had won it. Thanks for pointing that out.

RIVERWIDOW

12-12-2005, 06:37 PM

I say good job by Arnold to not let all the Hollywood bleeding hearts sway his decision. He was right when he said "Tookie has never shown remorse or admitted guilt". No matter how many feel good books he wrote all those people are still dead. I will say once again, DO THE CRIME_ DO THE TIME
or in this case pay the ultimate price. As it should be. Burn in Hell Tookie, you deserve it. :angry:

MikeD

12-12-2005, 06:53 PM

Hum. I wonder if there will be riots in SD.

Heh, that makes sense. We don't get what we want so we'll burn everything down...better yet, do it where we live! :thumbup:

Let's hope that type of stuff doesn't go down. The man was tried, convicted, and has lost a spate of appeals. The decision of the court is final. Let's allow justice to be served.

zenbooty

12-12-2005, 06:56 PM

zippyjuan

12-12-2005, 06:57 PM

Glad I do not have to decide if a man should live or die. Should a person's past be weighed egually, more heavily, or less than his present? Can a person change? If you stole gum from the store when you were little should you list that on all your job applications- saying you are a thief? Or did you learn not to do that anymore? Killing him will not bring back any of his victims. Granting clemency does not set him free nor absolve him of his crimes. Is it more valuable to society to have him dead as an example to gang members to not get caught if you do anything or is it more valuable that he spread the word that that lifestyle is wrong? I cannot make that call.

eSDee

12-12-2005, 07:24 PM

you're killing me today zen.

brainsmile

12-12-2005, 07:37 PM

eSDee

12-12-2005, 07:56 PM

Brainsmile, you're proving again that you don't read the threads you just post ;)

He never won the prize. He was only nominated for it by some fanatics. I could nominate my dog if I wanted to.

Hmm I thought he had won it. Thanks for pointing that out.

:D

TofuNinja

12-12-2005, 08:40 PM

Well like it matters he's gonna die...

But I believe what you do later in life when you are older and wiser far out weights what you did when you were young. But then again most of the crap that the average person did when he or she was young was, Pot, shop lift, fight, lie, etc... not kill people or found a gang.

oh well..... let the riots start.... hell if people will riot for the Lakers winning a championship they will riot for this....

nickel

12-12-2005, 08:44 PM

"The death penalty of Williams, 51, should proceed as planned at 3:01 a.m. EST (12:01 PST) at San Quentin State Prison. Williams will be executed for murdering four people in two 1979 holdups."

LegendKiller

12-12-2005, 09:03 PM

I just don't understand what the big deal is about this. He comitted a crime, was convicted by peers, didn't do anything until the last decade, never apologized, and yet people are all up in arms.

MikeD

12-12-2005, 09:33 PM

I just don't understand what the big deal is about this. He comitted a crime, was convicted by peers, didn't do anything until the last decade, never apologized, and yet people are all up in arms.

:agree:

He's got the important people fighting the good fight for him, though: the NAACP and Hollywood.

“Too often I hear the governor and many who are around him talk about his values system,” said NAACP President Bruce S. Gordon. “In this particular case, those values seem to be cast aside. There is absolutely no recognition given to redemption.”

Maybe now Mr. Gordon can take his group and fight for some whites or other minorities on Death Row. :hmm:

“The governor’s 96-hour wait to give an answer was a cowardly act and was tortuous,” said former “M..A..S..H” star Mike Farrell, a death penalty opponent. “I would suggest that had he the courage of his convictions he could have gone over to San Quentin and met with Stanley Williams himself and made a determination rather than letting his staff legal adviser write this garbage."

This is so typical of Hollywood that it doesn't even deserve a response...:disa:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10355657/

RIVERWIDOW

12-12-2005, 09:48 PM

Y'know, you may want to rethink that Winnie The Pooh avatar...

Why whatever do you mean ??? I am just a sweet little ole grandma. :halo:

LPMiller

12-13-2005, 04:54 AM

well, can't say that I feel bad for the man.

Freelance Superhero

12-13-2005, 07:38 AM

people were protesting at the federal building last night here in LA, right near where Cornmonkey and i work, and i was thinking what a waste of time it was. what did they think they could accomplish by making a ruckus on the very night of his execution? i dunno, i can't really make sense of the whole thing yet...

TruckStuff

12-13-2005, 08:28 AM

Not posted yet... Williams Executed this AM (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/ap_on_re_us/williams_execution)

cheapie

12-13-2005, 09:55 AM

i know you're going to wonder who stole my s/n and password but this execution kind of bothers me for only one reason. is he guilty? i assume he is but after reading some of the details on the web of how a lot of the evidence was based on testimony by people that were potentially fed the details or had an incentive to see him conviction i'm sort of worried.

if someone has links as to why it's pretty much a given he's guilty i would appreciate it.

as for how he ran the gang and committed violence in prison...that's not what he was executed for. try him for those things but it shouldn't have been a factor in whether or not he was convicted.

my opinion of the death penalty is different that most conservatives. i believe that it's not wrong to do it, but that as a society we might want to refrain from doing so. unless there's a guarantee that everyone on death row is 100% guilty, i'm very uncomfortable with the idea.

esme

12-13-2005, 09:58 AM

actually ....(correct me if i'm wrong) BUT all of the witnesses were either his accomplice or friends (gang members) of his

:shrug:

cheapie

12-13-2005, 10:01 AM

i know. i just...dunno.

also, i think the attention snoop, foxx, etc. gave to the case kind of backed ahnold into a corner. he couldn't grant clemency w/o people on the right claiming he was doing it because it was a popular case.

nickel

12-13-2005, 10:09 AM

-shells at the crime scene matched his gun
-he was outed as the killer by his partner in the burglary
-he bragged about the killings afterwards

i dunno cheapie, i don't like the idea of killing another human being either, but you have to be careful where you get your facts on his case before you buy into that this guy was innocent.

something can also be said about the fact that he had the power still, even though he was in prison, to influence people strongly. such power that even though he was blatantly guilty Hollywood still defended him.

cheapie

12-13-2005, 10:15 AM

i believe he's guilty. i just want to be sure.

the only problems with your second two items is that the statements were likely were given to the cops in exchange for something. :shrug:

nickel

12-13-2005, 10:18 AM

i believe he's guilty. i just want to be sure.

the only problems with your second two items is that the statements were likely were given to the cops in exchange for something. :shrug:
well, then explain the first one. how could that not show guilt?
someone else used his gun? then how can we explain his fingerprints all over it?

cheapie

12-13-2005, 10:22 AM

nickel

12-13-2005, 10:26 AM

i believe he's guilty. i am just worried about the conviction being based on the testimony of people that have an incentive to convict him. i have not read much about the case and was asking exactly the type of thing you posted.

i didn't know about it and am thankful you posted it. we're not arguing here :kiss:
nope, this is discussing. :shakehand

i don't think an innocent man was killed in this case, but like you i am leery of the death penalty because what a tragedy it would be if an innocent person was killed.

and yet, i still don't advocate the death penalty, but he knew when he committed the crime that was the law.

eSDee

12-13-2005, 11:17 AM

Just curious but are there only 9 commandments now? Or 9 1/2? I am a little confused.

/sarcasm

le_stick

12-13-2005, 11:27 AM

This is his ticket to go to heaven :abduct: ..........:hehehmm:

cheapie

12-13-2005, 11:32 AM

Just curious but are there only 9 commandments now? Or 9 1/2? I am a little confused.

/sarcasm

it's a tough one esdee. i believe that God has ordained armies, cops, governers, presidents, etc to protect countries. part of that could be putting people to death, shooting people in self-defense, etc.

but "i" could not kill anyone because of that commandment.

i don't really have a good handle on the discrepancy. a friend of mine carries a gun around and we go to the same church. i don't believe i could shoot someone for trying to carjack me but he has no problem with the idea. :shrug: i guess it's a personal issue.

nickel

12-13-2005, 12:35 PM

Just curious but are there only 9 commandments now? Or 9 1/2? I am a little confused.

/sarcasm
i see your point. i don't think you are being sarcastic at all by bringing that up.

"Thou shalt not kill" is the reason i have trouble accepting the death penalty.

InfiniteNothing

12-13-2005, 12:43 PM

The more accepted translation is "do not murder". :shrug: Not that I'm for the DP.

InfiniteNothing

12-13-2005, 12:50 PM

well, then explain the first one. how could that not show guilt?
someone else used his gun? then how can we explain his fingerprints all over it?

A fellow gang member set him up? (transfer prints, used gloves, Tookie used the gun afterwards, etc.)

I just don't understand what the big deal is about this. He comitted a crime, was convicted by peers, didn't do anything until the last decade, never apologized, and yet people are all up in arms.

Two simple facts: Juries can be wrong and death is irreversable.

Prisoner 24601

12-13-2005, 12:56 PM

This is his ticket to go to heaven :abduct: ..........:hehehmm:

That was going to be my reply if
a) He's innocent
b) he really repented all of his sins and was forgiven

Otherwise, St Peter would have been laughing at him at the gate!

nickel

12-13-2005, 01:00 PM

A fellow gang member set him up? (transfer prints, used gloves, Tookie used the gun afterwards, etc.)

Two simple facts: Juries can be wrong and death is irreversable.
i haven't read anything anywhere stating that this was a conspiracy by a fellow gang member to set him up.

and you would think after being on death row for 24 years that if he were really innocent it would come out.

DarkFury

12-13-2005, 01:13 PM

and you would think after being on death row for 24 years that if he were really innocent it would come out.
Depends on who is actively looking for that kind of evidence and how committed they are to finding it.

Plus... if you already got judges denying various appeals based on "new evidence" then that kinda makes it tougher to plead your "innocence" in a case like that.

MikeD

12-13-2005, 01:16 PM

It's a moot point now...the issue has been settled.

Time to move on.

nickel

12-13-2005, 01:20 PM

Depends on who is actively looking for that kind of evidence and how committed they are to finding it.

Plus... if you already got judges denying various appeals based on "new evidence" then that kinda makes it tougher to plead your "innocence" in a case like that.
true.
but in this case his lawyers were asking for clemency based on the good work he has done and the good work he would continue to do, not based on his innocence. sounds like they couldn't even go with the "possiblity" that he didn't do it route. the evidence against him must be pretty solid.

cadetevon

12-13-2005, 01:22 PM

It's a moot point now...the issue has been settled.

Time to move on.
:agree: This is begining to be one of those threads that used to live on the PF. :(

LegendKiller

12-13-2005, 01:25 PM

It's a moot point now...the issue has been settled.

Time to move on.

No, we must argue about a topic ad nausium after it is done and nothing can be done to prevent the same issue later.

Showtime

12-13-2005, 01:34 PM

My friend is a sheriff and showed me some pics from the crime scenes.
I usually never look at this kind of stuff, but he really insisted that I see it.
It was pretty gruesome, shot guns are very very messy. What happened to those victims was wrong and I can see why someone needed to die for it.
There is a chance that he was set up for those particular murders. But, he was going to eventually get caught for killing someone. A leader leads by example and if his "soldiers" we're killing, he was repsonsible to a certain degree.

esme

12-13-2005, 01:38 PM

i wonder how many other people he killed and nobody ever knew about them

KIISQueen

12-13-2005, 01:58 PM

Justice???

Since when is killing someone innocent? Arnold Schwartzenneger has no right to say that someone should die!! Stanley Williams is far from being the only person who has murdered people. Look at Scott Peterson! He killed both his wife and his unborn child. Is he being lethally injected? I don't think so! It is quite obvious that this is an issue of color. Had Tookie Williams been white, he would have never gotten the death penalty in the first place. Who is Schwartzenneger to say that he had not changed? He has only been governor for two years. What is this world coming to? Now we have foreigners being able to determine whether or not an American should live.

Showtime

12-13-2005, 02:02 PM

More whites on death row than blacks...

kimchicowboy

12-13-2005, 02:07 PM

What is this world coming to? Now we have foreigners being able to determine whether or not an American should live.
whoa, whoa, whoa.

how is arnie NOT an american? as far as i know, he's as american as my parents (who are immigrants as well).

esme

12-13-2005, 02:12 PM

wasn't it a jury who declared him guilty to begin with? the governator was merely a last resort for the defense

Butch

12-13-2005, 02:13 PM

More whites on death row than blacks...

The percentage of blacks on deathrow is far higher than the percentage of the american population represented by blacks.

Blacks are vastly over-represented on death row . . . many issues for that, of course . . . but simply stating that there are more whites than blacks on death row is completely misleading.

Anyway . . . my feeling on things . . . life is precious . . . people make mistakes . . . criminals are people . . . juries are comprised of people . . . cops are people . . . judges are people . . . we shouldn't allow a punishment that makes it impossible to try to make amends for the mistakes these people can make.

cadetevon

12-13-2005, 02:14 PM

whoa, whoa, whoa.

how is arnie NOT an american? as far as i know, he's as american as my parents (who are immigrants as well).

:agree:

And besides that, it was Williams that decided his own fate. The jury found Williams guilty and imposed a sentence.

Arnold had nothing to do with it outside of allowing the decision to stand. He didn't met out the punishment the jury did.

esme

12-13-2005, 02:15 PM

does it matter what color/race/ethnicity they are? if they're on death row it must be for something they did .....if they all had a trial than it was based on a decision by a jury (their own peers)

nickel

12-13-2005, 02:16 PM

MikeD

12-13-2005, 02:18 PM

Since when is killing someone innocent? Arnold Schwartzenneger has no right to say that someone should die!!

Convicting Williams and applying the death penalty was not Arnold's decision. He simply upheld what numerous courts had already decided.

Stanley Williams is far from being the only person who has murdered people. Look at Scott Peterson! He killed both his wife and his unborn child. Is he being lethally injected? I don't think so!

You're right, let's line up Peterson too. We could avoid the 24 year time period that Williams enjoyed on Death Row.

It is quite obvious that this is an issue of color. Had Tookie Williams been white, he would have never gotten the death penalty in the first place.

Ahhh, I can do you one better here. Had he not killed anyone, let alone 4 people, he wouldn't have received the death penalty. His color didn't kill him, his actions did.

Who is Schwartzenneger to say that he had not changed? He has only been governor for two years. What is this world coming to? Now we have foreigners being able to determine whether or not an American should live.

This last part of your rant speaks for itself...don't even need to comment on it.

Edit: beaten to the punch a few points by the previous quick-fingered posters. ;)

InfiniteNothing

12-13-2005, 02:19 PM

But, he was going to eventually get caught for killing someone.
Thought crime? Who are you Tom Cruise in Minority Report

A leader leads by example and if his "soldiers" we're killing, he was repsonsible to a certain degree.

Not "capitally" responsible.

It's a moot point now...the issue has been settled.

Time to move on.

No one is forcing you to read :shrug:

InfiniteNothing

12-13-2005, 02:26 PM

true.
but in this case his lawyers were asking for clemency based on the good work he has done and the good work he would continue to do, not based on his innocence. sounds like they couldn't even go with the "possibility" that he didn't do it route. the evidence against him must be pretty solid.

They may not have been able to "go with that" because of legal restrictions, not necessarily evidence restrictions. It may also have been that they wanted to roll the dice with a more snazzy appeal rather than boring facts to garner public support. Or it may have been that there was evidence but they knew no court would listen.

kimchicowboy

12-13-2005, 02:27 PM

Not "capitally" responsible.

hm, what about someone like saddam or milosavec (sp?)

btw, i'm not pro-death penalty. just making an argument

MikeD

12-13-2005, 03:05 PM

No, we must argue about a topic ad nausium after it is done and nothing can be done to prevent the same issue later.

No one is forcing you to read :shrug:

You're right...I guess you prefer what LK describes, which is bleeding an issue to death (no pun intended, BTW) ;) Hell, let's go ahead and make it a sticky...

Prisoner 24601

12-13-2005, 03:08 PM

simmah down :P

i believe Scott Peterson did indeed get the death penalty. remember Tookie was on death row for 24 years before the death penalty was carried out.
who knows when Peterson will actually be put to death.

:agree: People get the death sentence but the way things are, its pretty much life in prison and I dont mean because they kill you, because you die of natural causes first before they do it for you!

doolittle

12-13-2005, 03:26 PM

How rappers lost thier chance to stand up agianst gang violence
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2005/12/13/from_rappers_only_silence/

As for Tookie Williams
:angel: or :angry: only the maker can decide now

[Ezekiel 25:17 among others]
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

my favorite Pulp Fiction quote

gear02

12-13-2005, 03:28 PM

simmah down :P

i believe Scott Peterson did indeed get the death penalty. remember Tookie was on death row for 24 years before the death penalty was carried out.
who knows when Peterson will actually be put to death.

and he wasn't just sitting there...the prolonged time is always due to appeal after appeal after appeal.

InfiniteNothing

12-13-2005, 03:49 PM

hm, what about someone like saddam or milosavec (sp?)

btw, i'm not pro-death penalty. just making an argument

Sure. My requirements for the death penalty are: cheap including the preceding legal fees vs life in prison, solid case, and heinous crime.

Saddam qualifies mostly because of how many he killed (read: genocide)
Tookie on Murder meets only the last
Tookie on "soldier" hits meet none

ShawnLee

12-13-2005, 04:10 PM

He's dead now. It sucks that we have to kill people, but I still believe we're better for it.

I don't get KIIS queen's rant, but whatever. He killed people, he paid the price. I'm actually glad for the media roar over this. At least this reminds people that murderers die.

molecularfire

12-13-2005, 04:19 PM

my opinion of the death penalty is different that most conservatives. i believe that it's not wrong to do it, but that as a society we might want to refrain from doing so. unless there's a guarantee that everyone on death row is 100% guilty, i'm very uncomfortable with the idea.
I don't mean any sarcasm or insult with this statement but what you are asking for is an impossible requirement and if by some random luck that this requirement is met it is impossible to know that it was met (although I would be greatly shocked if that is the case). That would be like Shania saying she would date me if I could jump to the moon without any equipment. It's just a tease.

Hiro

12-13-2005, 05:21 PM

The actions you take are your own. Any negative repurcussions due to those actions taken are your responsibility to answer for.

If I walk in to Best Buy and run out with an X-Box, I have possible jail time, community service and any fees the city puts on me.

If I walk in to Best Buy and kill the first 20 people I see...I will get the death penalty no matter how many children's books I write or how many times I find Jesus while on death row.

He commited a heinous crime, brought people into gangs which are world renowned for the level of violence they are known to use in certain situations...and he started it all.

I don't care how many children's books he wrote...he deserved what he got.

zippyjuan

12-13-2005, 07:06 PM

As I said earlier, the comuting of his death sentence would not have released him or absolved him of his crimes or removed him from being punished for them. His death did not bring back any of his victims. Families of victims in Death Penalty cases rarely feel relief from their suffering after the criminal is put to death. They still have to deal with their own issues. It does not bring closure.

blueindian

12-13-2005, 07:20 PM

You're right, let's line up Peterson too. We could avoid the 24 year time period that Williams enjoyed on Death Row.

But there is a problem with that, since 1973 our governments have executed ~1000 people and exonorated around 120. That means that roughly 12% of the folks put on death row were later released from dealth row for one reason or another. While it is quite probable that we've executed innocents before, if we reduce the time one sits on death row we're almost certain to to kill an innocent.

I simply cannot support a system whereby there is the possiblity of putting an innocent person to death. In my mind, there is just no good argument for the death penalty when life in prison without parol is equally effective, less expensive, and has the possiblity for some form of restitution in the case of a false conviction.

Jane83

12-13-2005, 07:32 PM

why do people keep thinking hes an innoscent man??
you people who think that are crazy and jaded.
hes a murderer.
no matter what he does

zippyjuan

12-13-2005, 07:40 PM

I don't think anyone here has said Mr. Williams was innocent. They are discussing the hypotherical case of IF an innocent person is given the death penalty.

ShawnLee

12-13-2005, 08:05 PM

I don't think anyone here has said Mr. Williams was innocent. They are discussing the hypotherical case of IF an innocent person is given the death penalty.I beg to differ. Methinks Jane was referring to this.

Since when is killing someone innocent? Arnold Schwartzenneger has no right to say that someone should die!! I think this makes Jane's comment appropriate. Still, you're right, I think KIISqueen was the only one to go the innocent route and everyone else seems to be discussing hypothetical innocents.

Jane83

12-14-2005, 01:23 AM

thanks shawn...exactly what i was saying

cheapie

12-14-2005, 05:29 AM

why do people keep thinking hes an innoscent man??
you people who think that are crazy and jaded.
hes a murderer.
no matter what he does

i don't think he was innocent. just wanted to be sure he was guilty. :shrug:

nickel

12-14-2005, 05:47 AM

i don't think he was innocent. just wanted to be sure he was guilty. :shrug:
yeh, but... you are still crazy and jaded. :P

cheapie

12-14-2005, 05:48 AM

:shifty:

molecularfire

12-14-2005, 04:04 PM

yeh, but... you are still crazy and jaded. :P
Cheapie is not jaded, quit insulting us jaded people. Cheapie wants to make sure that the guy was not innocent... a truly jaded person knows that Tookie is guilty... heck, you put mister rogers in the same position and we would think that he was guilty... we think everybody's guilty. Heck, everytime I go out to eat and someone doesn't bust through the door with both guns blazing, I am pleasantly suprised. I get pleasently surprised a lot...

Hiro

12-14-2005, 04:21 PM

a truly jaded person knows that Tookie is guilty
Look at the evidence and the things he's done in the past. I don't believe that everyone on Death Row is 100% guilty, but in this case it's true.

molecularfire

12-14-2005, 04:53 PM

Oh, I wasn't actually making a statement on Tookie's guilt or lack thereof either ways. I don't know enough about the case and personally don't care enough to go through the trouble of finding out. If it makes you feel better, feel free to replace the name Tookie with any name of anyone on death row, of anyone in jail not on death row, or heck of anybody at your work place. I replaced it with Mr. Rogers and really... he hasn't done anything to me. Now that elmo dude... I can't stand him... the way he looks down on big bird all the time...

blueindian

12-14-2005, 05:02 PM

[QUOTE=CorsecLook at the evidence and the things he's done in the past. I don't believe that everyone on Death Row is 100% guiltytrue.[/QUOTE]

then how can you support the death penalty?

nickel

12-14-2005, 05:09 PM

Cheapie is not jaded, quit insulting us jaded people. Cheapie wants to make sure that the guy was not innocent... a truly jaded person knows that Tookie is guilty... heck, you put mister rogers in the same position and we would think that he was guilty... we think everybody's guilty. Heck, everytime I go out to eat and someone doesn't bust through the door with both guns blazing, I am pleasantly suprised. I get pleasently surprised a lot...
i hope you aren't being frickin serious telling me "Cheapie is not jaded", and "quit insulting us jaded people" cause i was kidding ferchrissakes.
i didn't use the word orginally either. someone else used it before i posted it and i was playing off that.

Q: can we joke around here anymore? :hmm:

eSDee

12-14-2005, 05:13 PM

Q: can we joke around here anymore? :hmm:

apparently not. since molecularfire was joking and you are taking him seriously.

nickel

12-14-2005, 05:15 PM

apparently not. since molecularfire was joking and you are taking him seriously.
yeh, and you know that for sure.

anyways, it's like walking on eggshells here lately.

zippyjuan

12-14-2005, 05:15 PM

And yet another topic has died.

nickel

12-14-2005, 05:17 PM

And yet another topic has died.
as did the subject of the thread :shrug:

LPMiller

12-14-2005, 05:18 PM

then how can you support the death penalty?

Well, I don't really like people.

yeh, and you know that for sure.

anyways, it's like walking on eggshells here lately.

It was a joke.

nickel

12-14-2005, 05:19 PM

Well, I don't really like people.

It was a joke.
yeh, so was mine.

jokes on the house for everyone.

Grimm

12-14-2005, 05:45 PM

Arnold Schwartzenneger has no right to say that someone should die!!
Actualy, as the duely elected Govenor of the great State of California, he not only has the right, but the authority and responsability of determining which California death row inmates die.

Grimm

12-14-2005, 05:45 PM

blueindian

12-14-2005, 05:57 PM

Actualy, as the duely elected Govenor of the great State of California, he not only has the right, but the authority and responsability of determining which California death row inmates die.

Actualy, as the duely elected Govenor of the great State of California, he not only has the right, but the authority and responsability of determining which California death row inmates die.

stop neffing!

Grimm

12-14-2005, 06:08 PM

stop neffing!
neffing is posting non-contributing comments in order to up a post count. That is a double post. It is from a server or transmittion error. I clicked the submit button once and moved on.

Please, if you are going to criticise someone, use the correct term. :nono:

blueindian

12-14-2005, 06:20 PM

neffing is posting non-contributing comments in order to up a post count. That is a double post. It is from a server or transmittion error. I clicked the submit button once and moved on.

Please, if you are going to criticise someone, use the correct term. :nono:

sure bud, once. just once. that's what they all say.

Jane83

12-14-2005, 11:42 PM

geez, relax people...for all you meanies who want to start fights on this forum...
Relax don't do it
When you want to go to it
Relax don't do it
When you want to come
Relax don't do it
When you want to come
When you want to come

i love this song

eSDee

12-15-2005, 12:18 AM

geez, relax people...for all you meanies who want to start fights

you people who think that are crazy and jaded.
hes a murderer.
no matter what he does

:hmm: ;) You're right. Time to relax.

dougadam

12-15-2005, 08:01 AM

If there is rioting they will be shot.

:woo:

InfiniteNothing

12-15-2005, 12:16 PM

:nuts: I think you are a little late.

doolittle

12-15-2005, 03:23 PM

I thought his books were inspiring millions of children to stay away from gang violence. It was reported yesterday that his first book sold 130 somthing copys and his 2nd book sold only 2 copys.... soo much for repeat customers

InfiniteNothing

12-15-2005, 03:47 PM

A)I haven't heard that he was inspiring millions of children. Who's saying this?

B)How is how many people he helps relevant? From what I've seen, it isn't a big factor for people. (at least people here)

molecularfire

12-15-2005, 10:34 PM

i hope you aren't being frickin serious telling me "Cheapie is not jaded", and "quit insulting us jaded people" cause i was kidding ferchrissakes.
i didn't use the word orginally either. someone else used it before i posted it and i was playing off that.

Q: can we joke around here anymore? :hmm:
Actually, I was joking. Come on... how many people on this board take me seriously even those few times when I'm serious. I've really gotta quit deadpanning jokes... :(

nickel

12-16-2005, 05:35 AM

Actually, I was joking. Come on... how many people on this board take me seriously even those few times when I'm serious. I've really gotta quit deadpanning jokes... :(
i couldn't tell that you were... sorry.

molecularfire

12-16-2005, 12:54 PM

Nah, no prob. Some of my posts can be kinda confusing. :hug:

Grimm

12-16-2005, 01:53 PM

It was reported yesterday that his first book sold 130 somthing copys and his 2nd book sold only 2 copys.... soo much for repeat customers
Anyone else feel that the anti-death penalty crowd was trying to take us all for a ride?

Anyway, I would like to nominate LPM for some really nice forum posts... so could we all refer to LPM as "LP Miller, Nobel Prize Nominee" from now on? K, thx bye.

ShawnLee

12-16-2005, 06:01 PM

Anyone else feel that the anti-death penalty crowd was trying to take us all for a ride?

Anyway, I would like to nominate LPM for some really nice forum posts... so could we all refer to LPM as "LP Miller, Nobel Prize Nominee" from now on? K, thx bye.I second this nomination. I too will proudly shout this from the rooftops if he is ever arrested, "He's innocent, look! He's been nominated for a Nobel Prize."