Political Forum?

[clutchy]

So what happened to the PF? I get back from a banning and it's closed? what's going on?

looks like they've managed to stifle positive debate and alienate some of their users, i'm not seeing any of the usual suspects posting much. Grimm? Ben? Where are you guys?

[Markel]

Read all about it. (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94772)

[LegendKiller]

Clutchy, apparently you didn't learn from your timeout...


Nobody has alienated anybody and nothing has been stifled. It has been decided that everybody who posts in PF needs some perspective on how to behave correctly on a PRIVATE forum.

If you do not like the rules, dont come around. If you don't like the moderating, don't come around. If you don't like the punishments, don't come around. GAM, nor anybody else, is holding a gun to your head.

Furthermore, there are hundreds of users that don't even go near PF or OT, but are merely here for the deals (See deals forum, overstock threads...etc) or for simple discussion. They see overruns in the forums, such as this, and are driven away by them.

PF takes up a massive amount of GAM time, it also causes the majority of whiney threads and emails that GAM and the rest of the staff gets from people who can't follow Apex (and the rest) rules.

This is not a free country. Free speech doesn't apply. It is not a democracy, a parliamentary system, or a electoral college. It is the GotApex message board and it belongs to the owners. They *INVITE* you to be guests at their house and enjoy it. They *INVITE* you to have fun and love the people you discuss with. At any time they enjoy your company and love the fact that you come around.


Just don't pee in their pool.

So please, enjoy great threads such as wishing people happy birthdays, soft spot, and finance threads. However, stop this tendancy to be some sort of victim.

[clutchy]

Read all about it. (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94772)


the things you miss...

[clutchy]

Clutchy, apparently you didn't learn from your timeout...


Nobody has alienated anybody and nothing has been stifled. It has been decided that everybody who posts in PF needs some perspective on how to behave correctly on a PRIVATE forum.

If you do not like the rules, dont come around. If you don't like the moderating, don't come around. If you don't like the punishments, don't come around. GAM, nor anybody else, is holding a gun to your head.

Furthermore, there are hundreds of users that don't even go near PF or OT, but are merely here for the deals (See deals forum, overstock threads...etc) or for simple discussion. They see overruns in the forums, such as this, and are driven away by them.

PF takes up a massive amount of GAM time, it also causes the majority of whiney threads and emails that GAM and the rest of the staff gets from people who can't follow Apex (and the rest) rules.

This is not a free country. Free speech doesn't apply. It is not a democracy, a parliamentary system, or a electoral college. It is the GotApex message board and it belongs to the owners. They *INVITE* you to be guests at their house and enjoy it. They *INVITE* you to have fun and love the people you discuss with. At any time they enjoy your company and love the fact that you come around.


Just don't pee in their pool.

So please, enjoy great threads such as wishing people happy birthdays, soft spot, and finance threads. However, stop this tendancy to be some sort of victim.


yes yes, i read all about it... i guess i missed that thread during my banning. I also understand that you as an employee of this business have a substantial interest in seeing it continue, thankyou for your perspective. You also forget that i've been here longer than you, have referred countless people to this site, and still recommend it. You don't have to be so condescending.

EDIT: added for your edit.

victim huh? I don't PM mods or email them about any problems i have. If i have a problem with someone i tell them, same goes for mods although on this forum they get deleted. Victim hardly, I just have an interest in having open discourse on a forum i've dedicated 5 years to. I believe in this site and the people it helps. You shouldn't accuse people of things... they might take it the wrong way.

[LegendKiller]

I am not being condescending, I am merely stating fact.

I have an interest in helping people stick around. Many are tired of seeing the arguing and it should stop. Many older posters have been driven away because of it and we should hope they come back.

[Cheesypuff]

clutchy...you had a timeout? tsk tsk tsk...I miss you!

[sbp]

yes yes, i read all about it... i guess i missed that thread during my banning. I also understand that you as an employee of this business have a substantial interest in seeing it continue, thankyou for your perspective. You also forget that i've been here longer than you, have referred countless people to this site, and still recommend it. You don't have to be so condescending.

EDIT: added for your edit.

victim huh? I don't PM mods or email them about any problems i have. If i have a problem with someone i tell them, same goes for mods although on this forum they get deleted. Victim hardly, I just have an interest in having open discourse on a forum i've dedicated 5 years to. I believe in this site and the people it helps. You shouldn't accuse people of things... they might take it the wrong way.Some dedication. One post made during 2003. 4 posts done in 2004. 2 posts made between 02-12-2005 and 08-29-2005.

[nickel]

I am not being condescending, I am merely stating fact.

I have an interest in helping people stick around. Many are tired of seeing the arguing and it should stop. Many older posters have been driven away because of it and we should hope they come back.
what you posted to him was condescending, and that is your tone with me also a lot of time. that is what conditions people to react to you and to generally react the way they do in the PF.

you could have told clutchy what was going on without saying things like, "GAM, nor anybody else, is holding a gun to your head."

[ialsohaveadream]

Just don't pee in their pool.
http://www.mm2-nfs4.freeservers.com/images/special_ed.jpg
"Hey lady, I peed in your pool!"

I think this thread needed that.

[clutchy]

clutchy...you had a timeout? tsk tsk tsk...I miss you!


I actually got banned... then for some reason they changed it... I think LPM had something to do with that, but i could be wrong.

[clutchy]

Some dedication. One post made during 2003. 4 posts done in 2004. 2 posts made between 02-12-2005 and 08-29-2005.


I always visited the forums, just because i didn't say anything doesn't mean i wasn't here every once in awhile. I suppose i should have said site not forum. I lost interest in the hardware forum, there weren't many people asking questions or the amount of people posting was low. The only reason i came back is because i found the political forum with a decent percentage of people having some great discussions.

I've continually recommended this site to people ever since i got involved. I think it's a great resource if only for the deals on dell monitors. I was acquainted with one of the deals posters; GraingerGuy and Cheesypuff were the ones who turned me on to the site.

[LegendKiller]

what you posted to him was condescending, and that is your tone with me also a lot of time. that is what conditions people to react to you and to generally react the way they do in the PF.

you could have told clutchy what was going on without saying things like, "GAM, nor anybody else, is holding a gun to your head."


His comments of censurship in the past, along with accusations of favortism, directly challenging GAM (which is what earned him a timeout), and claims of stifling and alienation by GAM are what earns him the posts above.

You can nitpick all you want on this one Nickle, but the fact is, I am right. What I have said in this post and the one in the other post is exactly what GAM has said in the past, what Apex has said, and what is posted. Some cannot deal with that fact, others take offense that I am saying it. However, people (as I) need to learn and let it go.

You were never banned, just TO'd.

Anyway....


Nice post ihad ;)

[InfiniteNothing]

what you posted to him was condescending,

I'd be careful of calling people condescending. I've seen someone get a TO for it.

Just a friendly very unofficial reminder.

[nickel]

I'd be careful of calling people condescending. I've seen someone get a TO for it.

Just a friendly very unofficial reminder.
i didn't call him condescending i said what he posted was.
as per the rules you can say a statement/post is "insert-a word here", just not the person.


1) Name calling, such as dumbass or idiot, just because someone has an opinion that is different than yours. You can think an idea is stupid and say, "I think that idea is stupid because..." and then go on and explain WHY. But, if you resort to saying, "You are so stupid for thinking that", there will be consequences.

anyways. . . i pretty much give up on speaking my mind before i do get banned.

[eSDee]

The only reason i came back is because i found the political forum with a decent percentage of people having some great discussions.


If you thought there were such great discussions taking place in Political, why did you come in there, guns a blazin', and tearing everyone who didn't agree with you a new one? You weren't the only one going postal in there but from what I read of your posts you certainly didn't appear to be giving anyone respect. Obviously the GAM's vauled your presense enough to un-ban you, and instead give the whole forum a time out. I am looking forward to it opening it again, but not if you are going to go back with the same disposition. People rattle eachothers cages in there and I'm certainly not innocent of that. But ultimately a respectful disagreement must be come to, or else the forum starts to melt down. If you can't have a respectful disagreement with someone, then do us all a favor and stop posting in there.

[clutchy]

If you thought there were such great discussions taking place in Political, why did you come in there, guns a blazin', and tearing everyone who didn't agree with you a new one? You weren't the only one going postal in there but from what I read of your posts you certainly didn't appear to be giving anyone respect. Obviously the GAM's vauled your presense enough to un-ban you, and instead give the whole forum a time out. I am looking forward to it opening it again, but not if you are going to go back with the same disposition. People rattle eachothers cages in there and I'm certainly not innocent of that. But ultimately a respectful disagreement must be come to, or else the forum starts to melt down. If you can't have a respectful disagreement with someone, then do us all a favor and stop posting in there.


Will you PM me with what you found offensive and i'll see what i can do about correcting it. I like fervent arguments, and yes i happen to have strong opinions, but it's not my intention to alienate anyone nor drive anyone away. If my presence there is going to make you leave then it'll probably be me who fades back into the shadows... .. . you kinda have to have thick skin if you're going to argue politics...

[eSDee]

I understand what you are saying and you're right, you do have to have a thick skin when in there. But the way that the Political Forum was working as of late was counter productive to its' purpose. There are a lot of things that I feel strongly about and so it's going to be difficult for someone to persuade me another way, however I am willing to hear their opinion so I cannot claim ignorance. Knowing both sides seems to work well for me, so that even if I don't agree with a point of view at least I can understand the motives behind it. For instance, as most people know I am not very fond of President Bush and his administration, however I do know that a lot of supporters are supporting him for reasons that I can appreciate. They believe that he is a good man trying his best to make this a better country. They believe in his methods, which I don't, and this is where we differ. However the common ground that we have is that we want this to be a better country and better world. I can appreciate that belief.

You don't have to fade into the shadows bro. If you post in Political I am not going to leave. I enjoy OT, Entertainment, and Software enough to stick around. But I won't be posting should Political come back, and the same trends continue. However if we can get back to mutual respect then we can get Political back to what it used to be. Good, informative, and sometimes heated debates. But everyone walks out of a thread at the very least a little bit more informed.

[LPMiller]

I actually got banned... then for some reason they changed it... I think LPM had something to do with that, but i could be wrong.

yep, you're wrong. Wasn't me.

Looking at the logs, it was an accident. It's actually pretty easy to ban instead of T/O, so I'm guessing it was a slip of the mouse that was corrected.

[Got Apex Moderator]

OK, let's clear the air:

1. Clutchy, you were timed out, not banned. If you saw a ban icon, that was an error. If you were banned you would not be allowed back.

2. The post you made addressed to GAM was accidentally deleted - we would normally keep it up as a wanrning to others on what will get you a time out. It was simply a case of too many browser windows & a misplaced mouse click or two. If you'd like to re-write it, we'll be happy to time you out again & leave it up this time.

The timeout of the political forum was a long time coming and was not due to any single poster. There were too many people coming too close to violating too many rules way too often. This timeout will give everyone a chance to cool down & re-think their posting methods.

If there are any questions about how this forum is moderated we're happy to answer them, but it's pretty simple: read, understand, and follow the rules. (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/announcement.php?f=9)

- GAM

[cheapie]

I am not being condescending, I am merely stating fact.



umm...it was a bit condescending.


but who cares? :heh: it's a freakin' forum. it's not a church picnic. people argue in forums, especially in ones set aside for especially divisive topics like politics. while i completely understand the right of GAM to moderate as he/she sees fit, i didn't notice anything amiss lately. perhaps i haven't noticed because i haven't been active in the forum as of late, with the notable exception of the tookie williams thread i misspoke in.

[faither]

I am not being condescending, I am merely stating fact.

I have an interest in helping people stick around. Many are tired of seeing the arguing and it should stop. Many older posters have been driven away because of it and we should hope they come back.

Like anything else, facts can be communicated in various means (constructive and otherwise). From Tampa it looked like your fact was stated in a condescending manner.

Arguments are good and can be constructive. Personal attacks are bad and are not usually productive. Again, this is another example of rules needing to be promulgated to control and appease the lowest common denominator. Participating in a political discourse almost necessitates a thick skin. Maybe there could be a disclaimer that the thin-skinned should not enter.

That said, maybe if those who were driven away just stayed out of the PF, we wouldn't have a problem and they'd still be here.

[faither]

Why can't I edit my post? If I could I'd mention that the peeing in the pool analogy is a bad one because doing so pollutes the entire pool; I can't think of many recent posts that were uniformly decried in such a manner. Typically, reaction depended upon which side of the political spectrum one falls.

Unpopular posts -- even distasteful ones -- are not tantamount to pissing in a pool.

Lastly, threads aren't whiny, people are.

[LegendKiller]

From Tampa it looked like your fact was stated in a condescending manner.


Must be somethin in the water in Tampa, those West Coast people are a bit odd. Although I did have fun with my bachelor party in your city.

[TruckStuff]

umm...it was a bit condescending. :stupid: ...FWIW... :shrug:
as per the rules you can say a statement/post is "insert-a word here", just not the person. Nah, that rule isn't applied as the rule would seem to indicate it is. I've been TO'ed for calling a post "insert-word-here," even though I never called the poster an "insert-word-here." :shrug:

[faither]

Must be somethin in the water in Tampa, those West Coast people are a bit odd. Although I did have fun with my bachelor party in your city.

Nah, rather I think it's the crystal clear sky that allows an unobstructed view of the mumbo jumbo. :D

[Markel]

Must be somethin in the water in Tampa....
OH NOES! I'll be in Tampa (well, actually Valrico) with my family next week! :eek:

[eSDee]

Must be somethin in the water in Tampa, those West Coast people are a bit odd. Although I did have fun with my bachelor party in your city.

Tampa's on the West Coast? :confused:

[LegendKiller]

Tampa's on the West Coast? :confused:


The west coast of florida, yes. FL does have an east and west coast you know :)

[cheapie]

The west coast of florida, yes. FL does have an east and west coast you know :)



don't mind him LK. i get the feeling californians think there's california and new york. the rest is just one big ohio. :hihi:

[cadetevon]

don't mind him LK. i get the feeling californians think there's california and new york. the rest is just one big ohio. :hihi:
Um. :confused: You mean it's not like that?

:P

[eSDee]

The west coast of florida, yes. FL does have an east and west coast you know :)

I did look on the map before I posted this, but I wasn't sure if that's what you meant. Learn something new every day.

[clutchy]

OK, let's clear the air:

1. Clutchy, you were timed out, not banned. If you saw a ban icon, that was an error. If you were banned you would not be allowed back.

2. The post you made addressed to GAM was accidentally deleted - we would normally keep it up as a wanrning to others on what will get you a time out. It was simply a case of too many browser windows & a misplaced mouse click or two. If you'd like to re-write it, we'll be happy to time you out again & leave it up this time.

The timeout of the political forum was a long time coming and was not due to any single poster. There were too many people coming too close to violating too many rules way too often. This timeout will give everyone a chance to cool down & re-think their posting methods.



If there are any questions about how this forum is moderated we're happy to answer them, but it's pretty simple: read, understand, and follow the rules. (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/announcement.php?f=9)
- GAM

1. noted thanks
2. It was a good one, and i felt smug for awhile noting that i had called you a fascist and lo' and behold the post was suppressed out of existence. Not worth a retype and i doubt i could summon the fervor in which it was originally written.


I am particularly interested in who you are, or who the account is. Is it a roving account which any of the gotapex owner/operators can log into and use at their discretion? or is GAM a singular entity?

[cheapie]

let it go or wave good-bye.

[ShawnLee]

don't mind him LK. i get the feeling californians think there's california and new york. the rest is just one big ohio. :hihi:What's Ohio? :heh:

[Leon]

don't mind him LK. i get the feeling californians think there's california and new york. the rest is just one big ohio. :hihi:

http://www.etherfarm.com/images/entry_images/ca-continental-us.gif

Legend:

California. Unsurprisingly, California remains intact.

This is the state of Reno, which is easy to spot because it’s just outside the “Tahoe Region”.

The state of Vegas.

All Californians know that their neighbor to the north is Oregon. They know this because Oregon is where Chai was invented.

This is the state of Seattle unless you’re really wealthy, in which case it’s the state of Puget Sound. This is where Starbucks comes from. You’ll note that both Oregon and Seattle span the space between the west coastline and the I-5 corridor.

This is Death Valley. It’s hot here. Except in the winter, when it’s cold.

This is the state of Aspen. From the state of Aspen, you can ski straight into state #9

This state has two names for Californians. If you’re from Northern California, it’s known as “That Bastard of a President’s Ranch”. If you’re from Southern California, it’s called “The Alamo”.

The Midwest. It’s a huge state, as you can see, and for Californians, Midwest inhabitants on both sides of the Mississippi live on a strict diet of iceberg lettuce and Budweiser, which is why they have such big hair.
The blue vertical line is the Mississippi River. Californians don’t actually know where it is, they just know it’s in the middle of the country and that it runs “up and down”.

11 points to the state of Chicago, which is a convenient home to the city of Chicago. [I can’t begin to tell you how many Californians think Chicago is a state].

This is Florida. It’s home to Disney World (which is just like Disneyland) and a lot of Cubans, like that Ricky Martin.

This is Back East, colloquially known as New England. It contains most of the 50 states because the Pilgrims thought small. That’s why they’re so rude Back East, you know. They don’t have room enough to spread out their yoga mats and become one with the universe.

New York, where the official state animal is the bagel.

http://www.etherfarm.com/synapse/archives/whither_whatever

[cheapie]

they need to remember the midwest is also where their food comes from. :wavey:

[cadetevon]

they need to remember the midwest is also where their food comes from. :wavey:
LOL, true, but personally, I can live off of avacados alone. Mmmmm. :lick:


let it go or wave good-bye.
:stupid:

[Got Apex Moderator]

I am particularly interested in who you are, or who the account is. Is it a roving account which any of the gotapex owner/operators can log into and use at their discretion? or is GAM a singular entity?

GAM is not a single entity, but rather a collection of moderators comprised of the site owners/operators as well as unpaid volunteers.

[cheapie]

unpaid volunteers.

can you be a paid volunteer? i guess can you can volunteer to get paid but once the money comes you're not really a volunteer are you? so unpaid volunteers is redunant isn't it? :|





:lmfao: jk. we appreciate it.

[johnnymk]

unpaid volunteers is redunant isn't it? :|


Well maybe, if that were a word :bonk:

[cheapie]

crap. redundant

[InfiniteNothing]

I am particularly interested in who you are, or who the account is. Is it a roving account which any of the gotapex owner/operators can log into and use at their discretion? or is GAM a singular entity?

The real question is who are the breads: frenchbread and sourdough?

[LegendKiller]

Simply awesome Leon...

[nickel]

The real question is who are the breads: frenchbread and sourdough?
i have a hunch. . .
but then again maybe i haven't a clue. :P

[cadetevon]

The real question is who are the breads: frenchbread and sourdough?
Well, I sure don't know, but they need to blog more often. :nono:

[Apex]

GAM is not a single entity, but rather a collection of moderators comprised of the site owners/operators as well as unpaid volunteers.

It's like a Borg collective, but with marginally superior personal hygene.

[Kevster]

they need to remember the midwest is also where their food comes from. :wavey:

Food? California is the single largest agricultural producer of any state in the nation. We have plenty of food here. So much, in fact, that we export it all over the world. :D

[Markel]

Food? California is the single largest agricultural producer of any state in the nation. We have plenty of food here.
I guess bread doesn't mean much to those Californians. :heh:

[TruckStuff]

It's like a Borg collective, but with marginally superior personal hygene. :lmfao:

[Grimm]

I guess bread doesn't mean much to those Californians. :heh:
We grow enough wheat to make our bagels and that's all we need.

[zenbooty]

We grow enough wheat to make our bagels and that's all we need.The only states that couldn't support themselves agriculturally if they absolutely had to are maybe Nevada and maaaaybe North Dakota. Jersey might have a tough time due to sheer population density.

[InfiniteNothing]

Lots of snow peas for the northern states? ;)

[Kevster]

We grow enough wheat to make our bagels and that's all we need.

Yes we do! To further derail this topic, here's some more facts about California agriculture:

California owes it agricultural superiority to a moderate, Mediterranean climate, fertile soil, diverse land resources and progressive farmers. California farmers produce more than 250 commodities – alphabetically from almonds to walnuts, and they lead the nation in 75 commodities. California produces all of the nation’s commercially grown almonds, artichokes, dates, figs, kiwifruit, nectarines, olives, persimmons, pistachios, prunes, raisins and walnuts.

California's top performing commodities in gross sales are dairy products, grapes, nursery products, lettuce, and cattle and calves.

Compared with the rest of the nation, California's agricultural output still surpasses that of the next three states combined (Texas, Iowa and Nebraska).

[Markel]

alphabetically from almonds to walnuts
What? No yams?

[Kevster]

What? No yams?

They may be classified under 'sweet potatoes'. Potatoes and other root-crops are grown in the upper northern part of the state.

[Markel]

They may be classified under 'sweet potatoes'.
I was just trying to buy you an X and Y. ;)

[ialsohaveadream]

can you be a paid volunteer? i guess can you can volunteer to get paid but once the money comes you're not really a volunteer are you? so unpaid volunteers is redunant isn't it? :|
You volunteer for the Army, don't you? :P


The real question is who are the breads: frenchbread and sourdough?
:stupid: That's much more fascinating to me. I love the complete randomness of the bread postings.