Any opinions on these models

[Grubbie]

So I was driving home last night and the engine just turned off at 40mph. I found out today that the timing belt broke and I believe ended up bending the valves so car is going to be scrapped ( 86 Honda accord with 172k on it).

So now I am looking for a new car, still working the numbers if I can afford it but wanted to get peoples opinions on three of the cars I believe I will be looking at. First is the 2006 Civic LX, the second is the Mazda3, and the third is the Corolla LE. I’m figuring all three will come out between 17.5-19k plus WA sales tax (8.6 I believe).

So what are everybody’s opinions on them? I really like the look and style of the Mazda3 (and the little extra hp it has). But if I had to say it would be really between the Mazda3 and Civic.

Any help/insight is appreciated, thanks in advance.

[Bires]

I test drove a Mazda3. They are certainly nice, but it felt like the center of gravity was a bit high-it rolled a lot in the turns
If I had to replace my 02 civic, it would be with a 06 civic EX. I get 37 mpg, and the ride is great. I would get the EX over the LX because of the standard extras and the better resale value.
Corollas are nice cars too and will last forever, if you don't mind a more classical look. For Toyota, the scions are better.

Read up on www.edmunds.com about each. The 3 was their best pick for 05, and the civic for 06.

[Daedalus]

Yeah, that 1.5L I-4 is an interference engine. Are you set on brand new? How about a couple years old, still under warranty? Kind of a hard question to answer without knowing more about which characteristics of a car you value most. Without any data in hand to back it up, my perception is that Hondas and Toyotas are more reliable than Mazdas, and probably cheaper to own long-term. I would think they also have better resale values. Not that a used RX-8 wouldn't be a lot of fun and close to your budget!

[Grubbie]

Yeah, that 1.5L I-4 is an interference engine. Are you set on brand new? How about a couple years old, still under warranty? Kind of a hard question to answer without knowing more about which characteristics of a car you value most. Without any data in hand to back it up, my perception is that Hondas and Toyotas are more reliable than Mazdas, and probably cheaper to own long-term. I would think they also have better resale values. Not that a used RX-8 wouldn't be a lot of fun and close to your budget!

Not set on a new one yet. I'm just starting to think about it as I was hoping to drive my old beater for another month or two before it died(damn thing died early on me). I'm most looking for a car that will last without a lot of repairs, hold a good value and is a decent price. Also I will add I will be taken this up skiing probably since it will be better then my GF's car. Probably have to pick up a set of snow tires and chains/cables and so forth(we are having a great snow season in the NW). Also add that it is probably going to be an automatic :( since my GF will be driving the car as well (might be able to convince her to learn a stick). I might look at the EX of the civic but I'm not 100% if I could afford it. A lot of this also might depend on if I start playing poker part time again to pay the new bills.

Ya, I know what you mean about the corolla Bires. It is that plain Toyota look without a lot of style. I'm not sure if I am really intesreted in it but not rulilng it out yet.

[bachviet]

The new Civic is pretty nice (I'm Honda-bias though).

[CornMonkey]

even tho the 2006 civic has been getting rave reviews, the mazda3 still beats it (according to edmunds):

2006 civic vs. 2006 mazda3
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=108601

[ramazank2]

[QUOTE=Grubbie]So I was driving home last night and the engine just turned off at 40mph. I found out today that the timing belt broke and I believe ended up bending the valves so car is going to be scrapped ( 86 Honda accord with 172k on it).
QUOTE]

I thought japanese cars were supposed to run for ever. 172k is nothing. I sold my my 1985 GMC Jimmy with 192k and it was running strong. My current Chevy Blazer has 162k and also running strong.

[LPMiller]

I test drove a Mazda3. They are certainly nice, but it felt like the center of gravity was a bit high-it rolled a lot in the turns


I feel the exact same way on mazda3's. They just feel kinda wobbly on the turns.

I'd go with the civic over the toyota. tho with the skiing and all, I'd also consider a subaru impreza or legacy. Then you can skip the chains and snow tires.

[LegendKiller]

[QUOTE=Grubbie]So I was driving home last night and the engine just turned off at 40mph. I found out today that the timing belt broke and I believe ended up bending the valves so car is going to be scrapped ( 86 Honda accord with 172k on it).
QUOTE]

I thought japanese cars were supposed to run for ever. 172k is nothing. I sold my my 1985 GMC Jimmy with 192k and it was running strong. My current Chevy Blazer has 162k and also running strong.


As with anything else you have to take care of it. The timing belts on Hondas are usually 100k.

[Grubbie]

[QUOTE=ramazank2]


As with anything else you have to take care of it. The timing belts on Hondas are usually 100k.


DING DING DING

My brother and I drove it when we were in HS and then when we would come back from college for breaks. So as told my brother, we drove the car like a cheap whore. We only bought it for 3k I believe and we got a good 8yrs out of it.

[Cheesypuff]

go with the civic! I own a 04 honda civic lx and I can't have a bigger smile on my face!

if anything, I would stick with either a honda or toyota. If you like the sporty look, either go with the toyota corolla type S, or go with the scion (which looks freaking nice)

[Daedalus]

Back in '86 the belts on the Accord were good for only 60k (or x years, like stated), as were most cars. It's possible future replacement belts were made of better materials, but that was the original scheule. They do last a lot longer typically, but the rating is conservative enough to ensure that 99.xxxx% of all vehicles last at least that long.
A lot of domestic machines and some Japanese V8s have timing chains, not belts.

[Jabberwocky]

Maybe you can consider a lightly used Subaru outback. You go skiing, awd means you are less likely to be stuck in the snow and the resale value will hold better than a new car since it has already taken that first big hit.

[Grubbie]

Maybe you can consider a lightly used Subaru outback. You go skiing, awd means you are less likely to be stuck in the snow and the resale value will hold better than a new car since it has already taken that first big hit.

Ya I might be looking at a Subaru legacy. I'm still just researching cars right now, but I am going to start looking at Subarus as well.

[bachviet]

I bought the 87 Accord LX sedan in 1994 with 110K miles, drove it until 2000, and sold it for $1K at 230K miles. Those old Accords and Camrys last forever.

[JLemonjello]

Personally, I feel that the styling of the Mazda3 (especially the interior) is light-years ahead of both of the other cars, especially in the s package. It also has good performance for the class and decent fuel economy. I felt like it was a pretty safe and solid car when I was in it unlike the Honda Civic which felt cheap to me. I also didn't like the weird interior of the Civic.
Also, edmunds.com still hallows the Mazda3 as the best compact car (beating, most recently, the new Civic)
IMO, the Mazda3 is the way to go but if you are terribly concerned about reliability, go with the Civic because it will run forever.

(I really don't like Corollas... tiny little tin-cans with no engine and plastic all around)

[LegendKiller]

If you can wait till march you could go for the redesigned Camry. It looks *much* better than the current one. I am probably going to wait and get one.

[Grubbie]

I bought the 87 Accord LX sedan in 1994 with 110K miles, drove it until 2000, and sold it for $1K at 230K miles. Those old Accords and Camrys last forever.

That was my plan... I was hoping to drive it for another couple months, then sell it for a couple hundred bucks as it had some problems. Oh well.


If you can wait till march you could go for the redesigned Camry. It looks *much* better than the current one. I am probably going to wait and get one.

I might be able to wait till march, but I'm not sure how much more the camry would run me vs say a mazda3. I will agree that it looks much better then then current ones.


Personally, I feel that the styling of the Mazda3 (especially the interior) is light-years ahead of both of the other cars, especially in the s package. It also has good performance for the class and decent fuel economy. I felt like it was a pretty safe and solid car when I was in it unlike the Honda Civic which felt cheap to me. I also didn't like the weird interior of the Civic.
Also, edmunds.com still hallows the Mazda3 as the best compact car (beating, most recently, the new Civic)
IMO, the Mazda3 is the way to go but if you are terribly concerned about reliability, go with the Civic because it will run forever.

(I really don't like Corollas... tiny little tin-cans with no engine and plastic all around)

Ya I love the style of the mazda3 and can't wait to test drive it(probably going do be doing that next sat). After reading doing a bit more research and reading edmunds.com comparison I'm leaning more towards the mazda3 then the civic. I tossed the corolla in there since it is will go from A to B without breaking down and lost. However I don't like the tiny hp it has compared to the mazda3 or even the civic.

[Bires]

I forgot to mention: one of the other things that turned me off from the Mazda3 was the integrated audio cluster. Eventually, all cars will have them, but I'm fighting it.

There was (is?) no DIN or ISO audio bank and wiring harness to install an aftermarket deck.

So, basically to install a new deck, you have to leave the factory system in a non-working-but-still-in-your-dashboard state.

[irwin]

I forgot to mention: one of the other things that turned me off from the Mazda3 was the integrated audio cluster. Eventually, all cars will have them, but I'm fighting it.

There was (is?) no DIN or ISO audio bank and wiring harness to install an aftermarket deck.

So, basically to install a new deck, you have to leave the factory system in a non-working-but-still-in-your-dashboard state.

Or just buy a dashkit...

http://www.audiooutfitter.com/store/99-7504.html

[Bires]

The climate controls are on the same cluster as the radio. You can add an aftermarket head unit, but the factory deck has to stay. And, unless they changed it, you have to wire the new deck by hand.

[Grubbie]

I forgot to mention: one of the other things that turned me off from the Mazda3 was the integrated audio cluster. Eventually, all cars will have them, but I'm fighting it.

There was (is?) no DIN or ISO audio bank and wiring harness to install an aftermarket deck.

So, basically to install a new deck, you have to leave the factory system in a non-working-but-still-in-your-dashboard state.


Does this mean it is harder to steal then? I will have to remember to take a look at this when I check out the mazda3.

[speedracer120]

I'm with Bires's conclusions on the Mazda3. I had it for a few days when my transmission went out. That little thing reminded me of how fun it is to drive a small car with some kick. The roll does seem excessive and the environmental/audio controls, instrument panel and center console seemed just tacky and not well thought out. The interior space was pretty small compared to a '03 Civic (no experience in the new Civics) and the trunk deck seemed high. But if you're out for the zoom cubed experience, go for the 3.

[guiseppewv]

So I was driving home last night and the engine just turned off at 40mph. I found out today that the timing belt broke and I believe ended up bending the valves so car is going to be scrapped ( 86 Honda accord with 172k on it).


I thought japanese cars were supposed to run for ever. 172k is nothing. I sold my my 1985 GMC Jimmy with 192k and it was running strong. My current Chevy Blazer has 162k and also running strong.

On most cars if the timing belt snaps it will not damage the engine but b/c the Hondas have interference engines then if the belt breaks then you slam the pistons into the valves which is bad, very bad. Hondas, in general, are way better than any GM vehicle. I have a 94 accord with 166k on it and it runs like a champ. I know people who easily got 300k on their Hondas but in order to do that you have to do maintainance on your Honda.

[Grubbie]

So I test drove the civic and the Mazda3 today and I’m loving the Mazda3. I will probably test drive the corolla just to compare and maybe check out some Subaru’s. I do think I will be getting a 06 Mazda3 though.

So now with looking to actually buy, how should I go about the negotiation with the dealer? I'm figuring I will go through online and request a quote from a couple of dealers on the S touring with the options I want. Then go through and compare those with the TMV from Edmunds or the target price from carsdirect an see how they compare. But when I go to the dealer how should I try to negotiate with them? Should I give them my target price (off the TMV from Edmunds and target price from cars direct) and see if they will go under the quotes from other dealers or what? Most likely I will either have a good interest rate setup on a loan through my credit union or a 0% loan through my girlfriends parents. I don’t have a trade in so I will only be negotiating on the total price of the car.

For example the S touring will come in with an automatic for an MSRP around 19,165 or so with no other real options. Edmunds has the TMV at $18,428 and carsdirect has a target price of $18,236. So should I bet shooting for around 18,300 and willing to give 200$ or so? That is my real question, I guess it helps once I get the quotes from the dealers around but what do you guys think?

Thanks for all the help so far and any future help.

[Houdini]

I feel the exact same way on mazda3's. They just feel kinda wobbly on the turns.

I'd go with the civic over the toyota. tho with the skiing and all, I'd also consider a subaru impreza or legacy. Then you can skip the chains and snow tires.

I'm with you there. Then again, I have a strong bias against FWD cars. I tend to stick to RWD or AWD. FWD cars always feel strange to me, and skid like crazy in the rain, for example when coming to a stop and planning to turn (wheel slightly turned.) It's just physics and weight distribution, of course - light tail and all. Also, I've found they are more of a PITA with respect to repairs, as everything is crammed in sideways. :shrug: