NYC girl scores 113 in HS game

[GraingerGuy]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2315990

Ok....I know that this was just a high school game....but still. 113 points? Crazy.

And Lisa Leslie....101 in a HALF? Geez....

[Sirrich3]

Good and cCongrats to her...

[nickel]

she broke Cheryl Miller's record "105 points for Riverside Poly in California against Riverside Norte Vista in 1982."

looks like Rutgers is going to have a super star on their team next season. go Epiphanny! :thumbup:

[VTGreg]

This is high school. There are many players that are completely unstoppable in high school. The difference is most of them don't get to take enough shots to score over 100 points. Also, like in college basketball, the women's game is much more top heavy since you don't have the same type of athletes playing.

[DarkFury]

Also, like in college basketball, the women's game is much more top heavy since you don't have the same type of athletes playing.

Now that's what we likes... :naughty: :wow: :heh: :thumb:

[bachviet]

This is high school. There are many players that are completely unstoppable in high school. The difference is most of them don't get to take enough shots to score over 100 points...
High school or not it's still amazing.

[KIISQueen]

CONGRATS

You go girl

:bow:

[Merlin]

The final score of the game was 137-32. The coach of that team should be shot for that type of sportsmanship. Running up that score was just plain dispicable.

[attgig]

The final score of the game was 137-32. The coach of that team should be shot for that type of sportsmanship. Running up that score was just plain dispicable.

:stupid:

no congrats to the girl at all. the coach taught the girl that it's ok to make the other team feel crappy about themselves.

if they're up 20-30 points, start benching your starters and get other people in the game. if they come back, get that star in the game. just dispicable.

[nickel]

:stupid:

no congrats to the girl at all. the coach taught the girl that it's ok to make the other team feel crappy about themselves.

if they're up 20-30 points, start benching your starters and get other people in the game. if they come back, get that star in the game. just dispicable.
i think we've been down this road before here, but some will say that they wouldn't want the opposing team (player in this case) to feel sorry for them and tone it down.

i used the example of my HS softball coach telling me to purposely strike out to end the inning since we were pulverizing the other team. some people claimed they wouldn't want that kind of mercy if they were playing on the losing team.

i guess this made me think of Kobe's recent 81 point game. at that level it's ok?

[DarkFury]

i guess this made me think of Kobe's recent 81 point game. at that level it's ok?
it kinda applies and it kinda doesn't...

Kobe is a pro.. playing against other pros. They get paid to "destroy each other"... however doing so repeatedly leads to "bad blood" and "rivalries of hatred" amongst opposing teams. In the end, that "bad blood" can come back to haunt ya.

However, in a HS game, you are talking about "developmental kids" here... and something like that can be crushing to morale and spirit of those kids. Therefore at a time like that, temperance might be called for just so the kids can "save face".

When I was playing baseball... we had a "10 run rule" that if you were leading by 10 runs after the 4th innning the game would be called. Of course that would never play out in the pros... but in the early developmental stages of sports it works out.

[Merlin]

i guess this made me think of Kobe's recent 81 point game. at that level it's ok?
Big difference was that Kobe's game was not the same kind of blowout. In close games you go all out. But in a game like this it is not sportsman like at all.



When I was playing baseball... we had a "10 run rule" that if you were leading by 10 runs after the 4th innning the game would be called. Of course that would never play out in the pros...
Not true at all. In MLB if your team is winning by say 5 runs in the 9th inning and you try and steal second base guess what's going to happen....the guy on your team at the plate will get the next pitch in his ear.

Even in pro football if you are winning by a good amount and keep throwing long passes in the 4th qtr instead of just running it there will be trouble.

College ball is different because of that stupid BCS. Most professional teams know the job is to win not to humiliate the other team. Most high school coaches know this.

And DF is right about the bad blood. You humiliate the other team they will hold a grudge and get you back most likely the next time you play.

[nickel]

i guess they had their eyes set on her breaking the record. i don't agree with a team running the score up to 137-32 in pursuit of a record, but i wonder if the other team is outraged or giving her props for getting in the books.

[DarkFury]

Not true at all. In MLB if your team is winning by say 5 runs in the 9th inning and you try and steal second base guess what's going to happen....the guy on your team at the plate will get the next pitch in his ear.
What is "not true" by my statement... I gave you a fact that they would call the game after the "10 run rule"... in the pros, you just have to play it out. I was just giving a statement about how in little league ball, they kept the score from getting way out of hand. This is not "fiction" or "opinion".

Now in the pros.. if that pitcher intentionally head hunts like that, he'll probably get tossed out on his ear by the umpire... if the ump is worth his salt.

[Merlin]

Sorry, I misquoted. I meant to get the part about destroying eachother. Yes, they are paid to win but they all know the unwritten rules.

[molecularfire]

I've gotta agree with Nickel on this. If I was putting my best on the game I feel the other player owes it to me to give me his/her best. Better decimation than pity.

[MikeD]

...even Mike commented on her.


Epiphanny Prince set a national girls’ record last week in a game that was a rout from the start. Some complained her performance in such a one-sided contest was an example of poor sportsmanship.

“I can’t fault the young lady for scoring 113 points when she goes out each and every minute to play the game hard,” Jordan said. “If you’re going to fault anybody, fault the coach for not taking her out of the game.”

The former Chicago Bulls star was in town to announce the players for his high school showcase, the Jordan All-American Classic, set for April 22 at Madison Square Garden.

Jordan was so impressed by Prince — one of the top prep players in the nation — he’s contemplating adding a girls’ event next year.

“I think that she’s going to innovate this game,” he said. “I think we should give women an opportunity to be recognized.”

Jordan, whose NBA career-high was 69, couldn’t remember a specific time when people got on him about scoring too much. But he knows there were probably many occasions like that.

“I imagine you guys were mad at me a lot in New York,” Jordan joked, in a lobby adjacent to the Garden. “People got mad at me for playing hard every minute I was on the basketball court and it so happened that I scored a lot of points on their team.”

Edited out a portion of the article about Kobe...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11225838/

[attgig]

I've gotta agree with Nickel on this. If I was putting my best on the game I feel the other player owes it to me to give me his/her best. Better decimation than pity.

either that or you give your best, you're humiliated. they can sub some girls in who don't get any playing time and also could give you a little 'even' competition. it's one thing to be challenged for you to improve your game. it's another thing to just be outright humiliated.

i was playing a pickup game once. i'm a short asian kid 5'7" - as was most of my team. the other team had 2 huge guys 6'3" 225ish. they could go out and just humiliate my team by always having those 2 post up and score...but instead, they shared the ball and made sure everyone got touches. made for a lot better game. they still whooped us, but it was still a good clean game.


and then on top of that, this is highschool sports. highschool sports isn't about humiliating the other team. i got better sportsmanship in a pickup game. that's what gets me.

anyways, done with this rant. took too many words.

[Pemolis]

It maybe despicable but the coach did something right for the girl. She got noticed.

Now she's guaranteed to go to College, probably with a full scholarship, and she'll make something of herself.

She and the Team Humiliated the competition, and because of that, she now has a future.

[attgig]

she was already guaranteed. scouts were already all over her. this did NOT make her future. she already had a future in collegiate womens basketball. just because this is the first time the national media heard of her doesn't mean that college scouts haven't already been drooling over her since her sophomore year (if this is the first time college scouts are hearing about her, they need better scouts).

[molecularfire]

either that or you give your best, you're humiliated. they can sub some girls in who don't get any playing time and also could give you a little 'even' competition. it's one thing to be challenged for you to improve your game. it's another thing to just be outright humiliated.

i was playing a pickup game once. i'm a short asian kid 5'7" - as was most of my team. the other team had 2 huge guys 6'3" 225ish. they could go out and just humiliate my team by always having those 2 post up and score...but instead, they shared the ball and made sure everyone got touches. made for a lot better game. they still whooped us, but it was still a good clean game.


and then on top of that, this is highschool sports. highschool sports isn't about humiliating the other team. i got better sportsmanship in a pickup game. that's what gets me.

anyways, done with this rant. took too many words.
For me, the real humiliation is knowing that they consider me so pathetic that they felt the need to take it easy on me... I find that downright insulting. They worked hard to be that good, I don't see why they should have to hide their skills to give me a false sense of achievement. IMO, people play to the level of their competition... if I have to face someone or have faced someone who is much better than me, it gives me an idea of how much better I have to be to play on that level. I would rather have that than a false sense of pride because I didn't know how much I truly suck. JMO.

[Merlin]

You know if someone was running up the score like that on me in a blowout I know I pull one of my players aside and thell them to take her out. One good flagarant foul and the whole issue gets resolved.

[Yossarian]

being the student athlete myself, i probably woulda taken it upon myself to throw her ass to the ground as well. the coach is at fault, yes, but so is she. shes the one hwo should be a leader and recoqnize the fact that her team is already up, and that she could be giving one of her other teamates valuable playing time.

[VTGreg]

being the student athlete myself, i probably woulda taken it upon myself to throw her ass to the ground as well. the coach is at fault, yes, but so is she. shes the one hwo should be a leader and recoqnize the fact that her team is already up, and that she could be giving one of her other teamates valuable playing time.

I disagree. I think this falls squarely on the coaches shoulders. I don't expect a high school student to have that sort of mind set, especially if her coach is giving her the green light and encouragement to keep scoring (which is obviously the case or he would have taken her out of the game).

I think she is very fortunate that she didn't get hurt. I don't know how good this high school team is but the coach put their success over the rest of the season at risk by leaving her in the game and leaving her open to retaliation and injury.

[molecularfire]

being the student athlete myself, i probably woulda taken it upon myself to throw her ass to the ground as well. the coach is at fault, yes, but so is she. shes the one hwo should be a leader and recoqnize the fact that her team is already up, and that she could be giving one of her other teamates valuable playing time.
I find it truly sad that this sounds like a reasonable option for some. :disa:

[Yossarian]

put yourself in the other teams position, do you really want to have someone go off on you? ****, i felt horrible when we gave up ANY points, let alone one person scoring more than we EVER did. i'm not saying i would run her down, but if she came into my lane, have fun getting your ass off the ground every time

[bachviet]

put yourself in the other teams position, do you really want to have someone go off on you? ****, i felt horrible when we gave up ANY points, let alone one person scoring more than we EVER did. i'm not saying i would run her down, but if she came into my lane, have fun getting your ass off the ground every time
So you are trying to hurt someone who is playing better than you? That really shows your sportsmanship.

[JackHammer]

:stupid:

no congrats to the girl at all. the coach taught the girl that it's ok to make the other team feel crappy about themselves.

if they're up 20-30 points, start benching your starters and get other people in the game. if they come back, get that star in the game. just dispicable.


I disagree. I don't feel the girl nor the coach should get any flack for what happened. This is a competitive sport. All parties involved understood that before partaking in the event so all agreed that they will play to their utmost ability. I don't beleive neither the coach or the girl did anything to be deemed unsportsmanship-like. If they had yelled 'you suck' or taunted the other team by doing some dance under the basket then yes. However this was not the case. The girl just did extremely well and the coach left her in to do so. I believe nowadays mediocrity is celebreated too much in American society.

[attgig]

This is a competitive sport.


and there was absolutely no competition in this game. absolutely none.

[nickel]

i tried to find an article which could give us some insight into how the opposing team felt about having Epiphanny score 113 points against them and the most i could find was in this article:


Epiphanny Prince: History Maker
by Richard Kent,
published on Feb 8, 2006

NEW JERSEY---Is it really about her? Did she do anything wrong? She’s just a kid. An athlete in high school who answers to her coach and to a lesser extent to her teammates.

Sure Prince scored 113 points for Coach Ed Grezinsky and in the process broke Cheryl Miller’s 24 year old high school girls’ basketball record in a 137-32 win over Brandeis.

Prince is a 5-9 senior guard who is headed to Rutgers next season. She made 54 out of 60 shots from the field while playing the entire game and had 58 points by halftime.

She now personally has regrets about breaking the record but she never asked her coach to stay in the game for the entire 32 minutes. Her coach kept her in.

Brandeis played very little defense in the second half and she is such a talent that she couldn’t just hold the ball. After all there is a shot clock, the girl has some pride and she is an offensive scoring machine.

It isn’t like Prince doesn’t have her defenders. Her jersey from the game was requested by the Women’s Basketball Hall of Fame. Some people know that she didn’t force her shots at all. The other team didn’t seem overly upset about the scoring outburst and some players actually laughed about it.

What are records anyway. They are either individual or team marks that are made to be broken at some time in the future. When Kobe Bryant recently scored 81 points he knew full well about Wilt Chamberlain’s record of 100 points. Certainly if he got closer to it, that is in the 90s he would have gone for it.

Rutgers Coach Vivien Stringer equivocated about the record. She is a very defensive minded mentor and seemed more confused about why Brandeis didn’t play better defense than Epiphanny scoring all of those points. One thing is for sure. She will never score over 100 at Rutgers. The Rutgers team usually scores in the 50s so that is less than half of her outing against Brandeis.

You’ve heard the expression fifteen minutes of fame. Epiphanny Prince may some day be a first team All American or she could get hurt in her first season of college basketball and never play again. As she said after the game, “In ten years I don’t know if I’ll be in the WNBA or famous but I made history so it will feel good in the long run.” She is right. She has made a name for herself. People won’t forget her no matter what her basketball future holds and while she wasn’t thinking this on the court against Brandeis when she applies for a job in five, ten or fifteen years the name Epiphanny Prince will resonate to the future employer. Is that such a bad thing. Probably not.
http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_01531.shtml

[Yossarian]

So you are trying to hurt someone who is playing better than you? That really shows your sportsmanship.

when someone is running up the score on me, i take that as a show of poor sportsmanship. if you're going to compete with me, i'll compete with me, disrespect me, i'll react in kind even if it means getting physical.

if this had been a close game, even if they had won by like ~30 points, i'd not be against this, at least at that poitn they had somewhat of a chance, but winning by that margin? sorry, that team shows me that they have no sportsmanship.

[nickel]

when someone is running up the score on me, i take that as a show of poor sportsmanship. if you're going to compete with me, i'll compete with me, disrespect me, i'll react in kind even if it means getting physical.

if this had been a close game, even if they had won by like ~30 points, i'd not be against this, at least at that poitn they had somewhat of a chance, but winning by that margin? sorry, that team shows me that they have no sportsmanship.
read the article i just posted Yoss. i don't think you can blame the girl, blame the coach maybe, but not her. frankly, i was taught to do what the coach told me to do, and i don't mean jump off a bridge if he/she told me, but i didn't talk back or refuse when they told me i was in or out of the game. i just did what the coach said as Epiphanny did.

[Merlin]

Nickel, You're right. You don't blame her you blame the coach. He should know better.

[molecularfire]

when someone is running up the score on me, i take that as a show of poor sportsmanship. if you're going to compete with me, i'll compete with me, disrespect me, i'll react in kind even if it means getting physical.

if this had been a close game, even if they had won by like ~30 points, i'd not be against this, at least at that poitn they had somewhat of a chance, but winning by that margin? sorry, that team shows me that they have no sportsmanship.
She is competing, you're (and I know you didn't play with her) the one who is not competing. You're putting her in a no win situation. If she doesn't play her best then she is not competing with you. If she plays her hardest she is somehow disrespecting you? How is she disrespecting you? She is playing her best. If you want her to quit scoring on you, play better defense. The person who is disrespecting for you in this case is you, not her. You have so little respect for your abilities that you are expecting her to take pity on you? I have heard so many little punks (I'm not calling you a little punk, I am just drawing an analogy) who come in all banged up because they got into a fight because someone "disrespected" them. Respect is earned... if the other team tried to hurt her because she is better than them then IMO they deserve no respect.

[bachviet]

She is competing, you're (and I know you didn't play with her) the one who is not competing. You're putting her in a no win situation. If she doesn't play her best then she is not competing with you. If she plays her hardest she is somehow disrespecting you? How is she disrespecting you? She is playing her best. If you want her to quit scoring on you, play better defense. The person who is disrespecting for you in this case is you, not her. You have so little respect for your abilities that you are expecting her to take pity on you? I have heard so many little punks (I'm not calling you a little punk, I am just drawing an analogy) who come in all banged up because they got into a fight because someone "disrespected" them. Respect is earned... if the other team tried to hurt her because she is better than them then IMO they deserve no respect.
:stupid:

[zenbooty]

If its after halftime and you've doubled the opponents score, you put in the reserves. Crushing a team without mercy isn't the same as playing your best game. There are a lot of options a coach has to keep his team playing hard without running up the score.

[molecularfire]

I would take the other team putting in their reserves as an insult... now if I was losing that badly, I probably deserve that insult but it's still an insult. Pity is insulting.

[DarkFury]

I would take the other team putting in their reserves as an insult... now if I was losing that badly, I probably deserve that insult but it's still an insult. Pity is insulting.
Not everyone wants to die with their guns in the air... :shrug:

Showing mercy is not a form of weakness.

[Merlin]

I think most folks who have participated in competitive sports know the rules of conduct - both written and unwritten.

[zenbooty]

I would take the other team putting in their reserves as an insult.Many years of playing and coaching sports tells me that your opinion is a rare minority. Most people don't like having their noses rubbed in it. And I find you're attitude kinda conceited. If someone has outclassed you to that degree, its conceited of you to demand they put in their best players and play their hardest if you can't support your end of the competition. You gotta earn the right to compete with people who've dedicated themselves enough to be that much better than you. You don't belong on the same floor as them, so to speak, so its a waste of their time blowing you out. I mean, would Larry Bird accept a challenge to one-on-one or horse from just ANYBODY?

[SpikeDig]

i tried to find an article which could give us some insight into how the opposing team felt about having Epiphanny score 113 points against them and the most i could find was in this article:
http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_01531.shtml

Go for the Gold, Epiphanny! :blite:

Let kids be kids, adults be adults, and pros be pros. All of a sudden Epi is on every women's basketball recruiter's mind. Rutgers is lucky to have her committed there. 113 will take notice, put her in the record book, and possible pave her way to a super-bright future in college & the WNBA (if it is still around in a few years).

So much for sportswomanship. I'm sure it was a sight to see live! :thumbup: Kudos to her. Play a little more D on the other side. Triple, quadruple, quintuple team her next time. The rest of the team had to settle for a handful of points, eh?

[molecularfire]

Not everyone wants to die with their guns in the air... :shrug:

Showing mercy is not a form of weakness.
I agree with you, showing mercy is not a form of weakness. Demanding it is.


Many years of playing and coaching sports tells me that your opinion is a rare minority. Most people don't like having their noses rubbed in it. And I find you're attitude kinda conceited. If someone has outclassed you to that degree, its conceited of you to demand they put in their best players and play their hardest if you can't support your end of the competition. You gotta earn the right to compete with people who've dedicated themselves enough to be that much better than you. You don't belong on the same floor as them, so to speak, so its a waste of their time blowing you out. I mean, would Larry Bird accept a challenge to one-on-one or horse from just ANYBODY?
I agree with you. If someone has outclassed me, I don't have any right to demand that they put their best players in. I have not earned that right. It is insulting but I have earned that insult IMO. That said, I am NOT going to criticize them for continuing to play competitively. I am not going to demand pity from them and I am not going to try to hurt them just because they are better.

[DarkFury]

I agree with you, showing mercy is not a form of weakness. Demanding it is.
Well since you agreed with that... then maybe you'd agree that they should have just "shown mercy" then.

Obviously the other team didn't "demand" it... and they sure didn't get it. :shrug:


Good sportsmanship is always appreciated.

[molecularfire]

My disagreement was never with the other team, it was with the opinions of some on this board. I didn't read anything that said that the other team demanded mercy from her. It was just some on this board who seemed to demand it and was what I was arguing against... especially those who seem to think it is ok to hurt her for it.

[DarkFury]

My disagreement was never with the other team, it was with the opinions of some on this board. I didn't read anything that said that the other team demanded mercy from her. It was just some on this board who seemed to demand it and was what I was arguing against... especially those who seem to think it is ok to hurt her for it.
I guess we kinda get confused of your arguments... since in most debates you play "devils advocate" anyways. :shrug:

[VTGreg]

My disagreement was never with the other team, it was with the opinions of some on this board. I didn't read anything that said that the other team demanded mercy from her. It was just some on this board who seemed to demand it and was what I was arguing against... especially those who seem to think it is ok to hurt her for it.


The coach exhibited poor sportsmanship by not pulling out his starters when the game was completely out of hand. He then put Prince at risk by leaving her and letting her continue to take all of the shots.

There's a difference between going out and intentionally trying to hurt someone and sending someone a message with a hard foul. If a team is running up the score like that then you send a message, it applies at all levels of competition. Kobe's 81 point outburst is a different scenario because his team was actually down by double digits in the second half.

[bachviet]

The coach exhibited poor sportsmanship by not pulling out his starters when the game was completely out of hand. He then put Prince at risk by leaving her and letting her continue to take all of the shots.

There's a difference between going out and intentionally trying to hurt someone and sending someone a message with a hard foul. If a team is running up the score like that then you send a message, it applies at all levels of competition. Kobe's 81 point outburst is a different scenario because his team was actually down by double digits in the second half.
It doesn't matter since you shouldn't try to hurt pple just because they score a bunch on you. It's retaliating and it shouldn't have a place in competition. :shrug:

[nickel]

It doesn't matter since you shouldn't try to hurt pple just because they score a bunch on you. It's retaliating and it shouldn't have a place in competition. :shrug:
:agree:

[DarkFury]

It doesn't matter since you shouldn't try to hurt pple just because they score a bunch on you. It's retaliating and it shouldn't have a place in competition. :shrug:
Basically, it's a "two way" street...

Sportsmanship works both ways.

[bachviet]

Basically, it's a "two way" street...

Sportsmanship works both ways.
There is absolutely no reason to hurt another person regardless of how poor the sportsmanship is unless the other person is doing something to hurt you. Getting pple hurt is assault not poor sportsmanship.

[DarkFury]

There is absolutely no reason to hurt another person regardless of how poor the sportsmanship is unless the other person is doing something to hurt you. Getting pple hurt is assault not poor sportsmanship.
It's the motivation of why the hurt was inflicted.

Though not justified... emotional people (typically angry people) do things that they might later regret in the heat of their emotions.

Good sportmanship generally tries to reduce this kind of emotional outburst/reaction.


In all things, you can't "justify" it being right... but you can only acknowlege what possibly could happen and try to avoid the uglyness that can be generated by it.

Like I said before... it is a "2 way street". Both sides are responsible for thier actions/reactions.

[VTGreg]

It doesn't matter since you shouldn't try to hurt pple just because they score a bunch on you. It's retaliating and it shouldn't have a place in competition. :shrug:

Who said hurt the person? A hard foul does not necessarily mean you hurt the other person, it is simply to send a message. A hard foul when someone is coming through the lane can get into the other player's head so he/she is thinking about something else next time they come down the lane.

[nickel]

Who said hurt the person? A hard foul does not necessarily mean you hurt the other person, it is simply to send a message. A hard foul when someone is coming through the lane can get into the other player's head so he/she is thinking about something else next time they come down the lane.
i think he was referring to these statements which go beyond, "hard foul"


being the student athlete myself, i probably woulda taken it upon myself to throw her ass to the ground as well.

the coach is at fault, yes, but so is she. shes the one hwo should be a leader and recoqnize the fact that but if she came into my lane, have fun getting your ass off the ground every time.

[Yossarian]

i think he was referring to these statements which go beyond, "hard foul"
i never said i'd hurt the girl, just remind her that there are no freebies, and that i don't like what you're doing

[bachviet]

Who said hurt the person? A hard foul does not necessarily mean you hurt the other person, it is simply to send a message. A hard foul when someone is coming through the lane can get into the other player's head so he/she is thinking about something else next time they come down the lane.
So what if the "hard foul" hurts her? How do you know for sure that the "hard foul" is not going to hurt someone? Don't even say that it's just an accident. That's so ridiculous when pple come up with excuses for hurting other pple.

[VTGreg]

So what if the "hard foul" hurts her? How do you know for sure that the "hard foul" is not going to hurt someone? Don't even say that it's just an accident. That's so ridiculous when pple come up with excuses for hurting other pple.

Just as it is ridiculous how people make up excuses for showing a complete lack of sportsmanship.

What if she turns her ankle driving to the bucket when they are up by 100 points and she has 90 points and there is a few minutes left in a game that was decided in the first half?

Once again, there is a difference between a hard foul and intentionally hurting someone. If the other team is up by 50 and she has 60 or 70 and they are just running up the score you foul her hard coming down the lane. You don't take a cheap shot and undercut her or something to that affect, you just make sure that she realizes that you are not happy about the blatant disregard for sportsmanship that her coach and she are exhibiting.

If she gets hurt as a result, then you are on the hook and should take full responsibility for committing the hard foul that hurt her, as is the coach for keeping her in the game and showing zero sportsmanship.

[molecularfire]

Just as it is ridiculous how people make up excuses for showing a complete lack of sportsmanship.

What if she turns her ankle driving to the bucket when they are up by 100 points and she has 90 points and there is a few minutes left in a game that was decided in the first half?

Once again, there is a difference between a hard foul and intentionally hurting someone. If the other team is up by 50 and she has 60 or 70 and they are just running up the score you foul her hard coming down the lane. You don't take a cheap shot and undercut her or something to that affect, you just make sure that she realizes that you are not happy about the blatant disregard for sportsmanship that her coach and she are exhibiting.

If she gets hurt as a result, then you are on the hook and should take full responsibility for committing the hard foul that hurt her, as is the coach for keeping her in the game and showing zero sportsmanship.
When it comes down to it, I just disagree with your definition of poor sportsmanship. I don't think trying your best despite the situation is poor sportsmanship. I do think that intentionally hurting someone either in retaliation or to play with their mind is poor sportsmanship. If she slips and twists her ankle, that is a risk that everybody is taking when they play. Nobody said that playing, that competing is without it's risks. I just don't think that it's right that an acceptable risk should be people trying to hurt you because you're better than them. A hard foul is intentionally hurting someone, what do you think the "message" you're sending is? It isn't intentionally injuring someone, that's different than not intentionally hurting someone. When someone pushes you down to the ground or hits you, that does hurt. Whether it injures you is a separate issue. I understand that neither of you guys are supporting injuring her but to say that hitting her hard and/or pushing her to the ground isn't trying to hurt her is just inaccurate rationalizations. Correct me if I'm wrong but the "message" that you are trying to send her is if she is going to continue to play better than you, to not take pity on you guys and back off with the intensity, the ability that you guys are going to hurt her.


It's the motivation of why the hurt was inflicted.

Though not justified... emotional people (typically angry people) do things that they might later regret in the heat of their emotions.

Good sportmanship generally tries to reduce this kind of emotional outburst/reaction.


In all things, you can't "justify" it being right... but you can only acknowlege what possibly could happen and try to avoid the uglyness that can be generated by it.

Like I said before... it is a "2 way street". Both sides are responsible for thier actions/reactions.
And so our response is to criticize those who are getting hurt by those emotional people? Should you trade in your hemi for a crappy car so that those people driving crappy cars won't get emotional and try to damage your car? What's the difference?

[DarkFury]

And so our response is to criticize those who are getting hurt by those emotional people? Should you trade in your hemi for a crappy car so that those people driving crappy cars won't get emotional and try to damage your car? What's the difference?
Your comment is totally out of context here. Looks to me like you are arguing for the sake of arguing now. :shrug:

I just tried to give you some "reasoning" on the topic... being jealous of someone else's possessions is totally different than "sportsmanship" and is irrelavent to the topic at hand.

[molecularfire]

Sorry, I didn't mean that last post as an out of context response or a critique of you in any way. I was replying to the rationale that you were giving. Correct me if I'm wrong but your argument is that there are rules to "sportsmanship" and that she and/or her coach broke the rules of sportmanship... that it is important because emotions run high during competition and that because of such we need to do certain things so that we don't get the wrath of said emotions. I simply disagree with our acceptance of the poor behavior that we blame on those emotions. Do they exist, sure they do. Are there people who can't control their emotions, sure there are. Should be just accept it and say well, that's just how the game is and if she got hurt she brought it on herself because she didn't do what those people expect of her? That is what I disagree with. I don't see why we should expect differently of someone in a game than we expect in real life. I don't see how those two situations are different. If someone is better than me in real life and they aren't humble about it I don't have a right to try to hurt them in real life, why should I be allowed to do so in a game?

[DarkFury]

Sorry, I didn't mean that last post as an out of context response or a critique of you in any way. I was replying to the rationale that you were giving. Correct me if I'm wrong but your argument is that there are rules to "sportsmanship" and that she and/or her coach broke the rules of sportmanship... that it is important because emotions run high during competition and that because of such we need to do certain things so that we don't get the wrath of said emotions. I simply disagree with our acceptance of the poor behavior that we blame on those emotions. Do they exist, sure they do. Are there people who can't control their emotions, sure there are. Should be just accept it and say well, that's just how the game is and if she got hurt she brought it on herself because she didn't do what those people expect of her? That is what I disagree with. I don't see why we should expect differently of someone in a game than we expect in real life. I don't see how those two situations are different. If someone is better than me in real life and they aren't humble about it I don't have a right to try to hurt them in real life, why should I be allowed to do so in a game?

Once again... I still say that it is a "two way street". People most likey don't want to really hurt folks however due to "poor sportsmanship" then "stuff happens" and peolple do get hurt. Someone has to take some kind of responsibility or preventative.. yet in many cases, people do neither of the two.

But hey.. both of our points are our "opinions" and neither is wrong from our perspectives. Honestly, nothing more can be gained from beating this dead horse now...

[molecularfire]

Yeah, you're right. We've both pretty much said what we wanted to say. Guess we just see things differently. :shakehand