Oakland Approves Fast Food Litter Tax

[Itsme]

Oakland Approves Fast Food Litter Tax

OAKLAND -- Fast-food restaurants in Oakland will now have to help pay for the cleanup of litter left behind from their wrappings and packages.

The Oakland City Council approved a measure last night that will tax fast-food restaurants, convenience stores and liquor stores to help pay for the removal of trash caused by their products.

The city of Chicago passed a similar measure in 2000 that sought to impose a half-percent tax on restaurants that serve carry-out food and sparked a two-year legal battle with the state restaurant association.

But an appellate court voided the city's measure in 2002.

Businesses will be assessed between $230 and a little more than $3,800 annually, depending on their size.

The tax is expected to raise about $237,000 a year. The money will go to hiring crews to pick up litter.

http://www.nbc11.com/news/6836713/detail.html?treets=bay&tid=26517943813&tml=bay_12pm&tmi=bay_12pm_1_02050302082006&ts=H

[ProMinx]

I've often wondered why this law isn't more popular in other cities. Without fast food, litter would be dramatically less (though I think they should add the same % to cigarettes because they're the other most popular piece of litter, in my mind). Unless McDonald's considers the McFish wrapper blowing down the road to be advertising...they shouldn't fight a few hundred or a few thousand dollars per location too hard.

[Burzhui]

i like it!

[Thesifer]

Without people throwing litter on the ground there would be a Lot less of it also. It will just be added into the price people pay for fast food to cover their litter Fee anyways. So it's not like it will hurt their pocket books at all. Just ours.

[cheapie]

does anyone believe that it will actually go towards paying people to pick up the trash? $240k? that's only enough money to pay for 3-6 people to go around picking up trash.

[MikeD]

does anyone believe that it will actually go towards paying people to pick up the trash? $240k? that's only enough money to pay for 3-6 people to go around picking up trash.

:agree:

I don't see where this is a big help. Another business tax that gets passed on to the consumer.

[speedracer120]

They might be going about it the wrong way. Just like CA does with the CRV for cans and bottles, there should be a nickel or dime surcharge that you can get refunded if you return the cups to be recycled at the stores or at certain locations.

Disclaimer: This is in force in Korea, just so I don't sound like I'm taking credit for something other people have thought up.

[Merlin]

Taxing companies because their customers are slobs seems a bit wrong to me.

If they really want to get the litter up have more prison workers out doing clean ups. Lord knows Oakland has plenty of prisoners. Put them to use.

[ialsohaveadream]

Taxing companies because their customers are slobs seems a bit wrong to me.
:stupid: I don't see how fast food places encourage you to litter. They wrap your food up to keep it warm and separate from the other food, so that somehow makes them responsible for jackasses tossing those wrappers out their car windows?

If they really want to get the litter up have more prison workers out doing clean ups. Lord knows Oakland has plenty of prisoners. Put them to use.
And they'll have more soon, once Randy Moss decides to try and run over another cop. :)

[Kim]

My town has the juvenile offenders clean garbage.

[Itsme]

This is just a way a city has come up with a unique way for a new tax, nothing more. The idea of it paying for fast food trash pickup is just a smoke-screen.

[DarkFury]

And guess what... don't think that the company is gonna shoulder the burden alone. It surely will get passed down to the customer in higher prices and whatnot. :shrug:

So in the end, you still are gonna pay for it.

[welfareloser]

is this really legal? i mean, damn... why be hatin on alcohol and fast food, when people are just as likely to litter gum wrappers, street-corner-ministry handouts, gas station pay-at-the-pump receipts...

it's just another sin tax... whatever, but i wish they'd just call it what it is.

[gwilks98]

And guess what... don't think that the company is gonna shoulder the burden alone. It surely will get passed down to the customer in higher prices and whatnot. :shrug:

So in the end, you still are gonna pay for it.

:stupid:
People are sheep. It's a shame no one really thinks about the trickle down affect when they see "good" government coming down on "evil" businesses.

[welfareloser]

i dunno... i think if you asked the average person if this was a good idea, they'd say no.

[Grimm]

i dunno... i think if you asked the average person if this was a good idea, they'd say no.
Yes, but average people are generaly idiots (I don't consider most of the people here to be "average").
It hink it's a good step. Identify a source of polution and build in the corrective measures needed to remove the polution in the cost of the item. No free ride for those that are willing to damage our enviornment for a profit, or even for their convienence.
It's just like taxing cigarettes to defray the cost in medical coverage.

[Thesifer]

And guess what... don't think that the company is gonna shoulder the burden alone. It surely will get passed down to the customer in higher prices and whatnot. :shrug:

So in the end, you still are gonna pay for it.

uhh yeah.. just about exactly what I posted.. but hey.. thinking the same things not a crime I suppose :P:thud:

[guiseppewv]

does anyone believe that it will actually go towards paying people to pick up the trash? $240k? that's only enough money to pay for 3-6 people to go around picking up trash.

When I first saw the title to this thread I thought "that sounds good" until I found out that it will bring in $240k. That is nothing.

I agree with the person who said to have inmates clean-up. I am all for making them earn their keep.

[welfareloser]

Yes, but average people are generaly idiots (I don't consider most of the people here to be "average").
It hink it's a good step. Identify a source of polution and build in the corrective measures needed to remove the polution in the cost of the item. No free ride for those that are willing to damage our enviornment for a profit, or even for their convienence.
It's just like taxing cigarettes to defray the cost in medical coverage.

okay, yes, i think cost of cleanup should be built in... i just think it should be built in to EVERYTHING. it's the fact that only fast food and, strangely, alcohol, are getting hit with this one. that, i find asinine.

[Merlin]

... and, strangely, alcohol, ...
I guess they have a lot of empty beer cans and bottles thrown about.

[DarkFury]

uhh yeah.. just about exactly what I posted.. but hey.. thinking the same things not a crime I suppose :P:thud:
You gotta realize...

Sometimes we reply to the thread before reading all the replies first.

But hey... that's a good thing (Great minds and all... :heh: )

[dbax791]

The next time I go to Oakland, I am going to throw my taco wrapper on the street, because, hey, I am paying for it.

Why should I accept responsibility for my actions when it is the evil businesses that encourage it?

[DarkFury]

:agree:

Why bother with litter cans now there?

I guess they don't have enough folks to fine the people who actually toss stuff on the street instead of punishing everyone.

[DaFunkyUnit]

... and in other news, fast food companies are cutting costs by wrapping their greasy foods in old newspapers...

[cheapie]

i wish there was a way to get around using all of those disposable bags. the europeans don't package every single thing in its own package and we could really learn something from them. esp groceries. i think more stores should encourage their customers to bring their own bags. of course, americans buy a lot more groceries at a time.

[DarkFury]

i wish there was a way to get around using all of those disposable bags. the europeans don't package every single thing in its own package and we could really learn something from them. esp groceries. i think more stores should encourage their customers to bring their own bags. of course, americans buy a lot more groceries at a time.
Go grocery shoppin' in "da hood" (stores like Auldi's), they charge like $ .15 per shopping bag so many folks either bring their own.

They also have a $ .25 "rental/unlock fee for the shopping carts as well. Downside is... they only accept cash and debit cards. :heh:

[zippyjuan]

Did you know that a shopping cart costs a store about $200 a piece? The store near me has put up a sort of "invisible doggie fence" to keep carts from leaving the lot. One of the wheels locks up when they reach the line around the property. A bagger has to use a remote control device to unlock them again. They spend thousands on new carts every year. I use my own bags when I shop for groceries. Besides the environmental concerns, I find them easier to carry over the plastic ones. Some stores pay you say $.35 to use your own since it saves them the cost of buying bags for you.

[welfareloser]

Aldi's rocks. except that it's full of cheap old people. tehy smell funny and move slow.

[Itsme]

Did you know that a shopping cart costs a store about $200 a piece? The store near me has put up a sort of "invisible doggie fence" to keep carts from leaving the lot. One of the wheels locks up when they reach the line around the property. A bagger has to use a remote control device to unlock them again. They spend thousands on new carts every year. I use my own bags when I shop for groceries. Besides the environmental concerns, I find them easier to carry over the plastic ones. Some stores pay you say $.35 to use your own since it saves them the cost of buying bags for you.

I think we are going to see a renewed campaign to reduce the number of plastic bags because they are finding a high percentage of them in the ocean and rivers, and they are causing all kinds of problems for the sea creatures.

[guiseppewv]

I like Aldi's too. I think they rock!!! I like the fact that they charge you for bags and they charge you a "deposit" on the carts.

I personally like what they started in MI back in 80s. Charge a quarter for each (actually on .10 in MI now) can or bottle as a deposit. You get the money back when you return the can/bottle. This promotes a clean environment in 2 ways; 1) no bottles/cans as litter and 2) All bottles and cans are recycled. If you throw your can/bottle down on the ground someone else will pick it up b/c they want the money. That way nobody has to get taxed if they are good stewards of the environment, relative to disposing of and recycling cans and bottles.

[welfareloser]

I like Aldi's too. I think they rock!!! I like the fact that they charge you for bags and they charge you a "deposit" on the carts.

I personally like what they started in MI back in 80s. Charge a quarter for each (actually on .10 in MI now) can or bottle as a deposit. You get the money back when you return the can/bottle. This promotes a clean environment in 2 ways; 1) no bottles/cans as litter and 2) All bottles and cans are recycled. If you throw your can/bottle down on the ground someone else will pick it up b/c they want the money. That way nobody has to get taxed if they are good stewards of the environment, relative to disposing of and recycling cans and bottles.

also, homeless people can pay for thier booze that way. a dozen or so empties = 1 full tallboy :P

[clutchy]

My town has the juvenile offenders clean garbage.


I used to work with social retards, I caught them throwing trash out of the car once and made them walk along the road for 4 hours picking up trash... I don't think they've done it again.


yes, we need more chain gangs(good deterrent).


Grimm: don't fall into the everyone is stupid category. You'll have to include me and about 68% of the people on the board if you do that. People are alot smarter than you give them credit for...


again california leads the way in imposing government on the people... People need to be more responsible they don't need more government.

[welfareloser]

People need to be more responsible they don't need more government.

IF people were more responsible, they wouldn't need more government. i don't seeing us collectively getting more responsible anytime this century... next century not lookin too good either. sooooo...

[molecularfire]

Yes, but average people are generaly idiots (I don't consider most of the people here to be "average").
It hink it's a good step. Identify a source of polution and build in the corrective measures needed to remove the polution in the cost of the item. No free ride for those that are willing to damage our enviornment for a profit, or even for their convienence.
It's just like taxing cigarettes to defray the cost in medical coverage.
Yes becuase people have no choice but to litter. You give me hamburger and I go nuts and have to throw the paper wrapper into the street instead of the garbage bin. If you wanna punish people who litter, how about we do this... we punish people who litter. We have littering laws in the books, how about we actually enforce them. Right now what we are doing is essentially nutritional stereotyping. There are plenty of people who go to a fast food chain, eat the food and actually throw the garbage into the garbage can. Big difference between this and cigarette taxes. Cigarettes affect your health when you smoke them, nothing you can do about it other than to quit smoking. Fast food does NOT automatically make someone litter. People still have to make the conscious choice to litter. Now, if you wanna say to tax fast food places because they increase health care costs you would have more of a leg to stand on (not saying that I agree with it, just that it makes more sense from an analogy perspective).

[clutchy]

IF people were more responsible, they wouldn't need more government. i don't seeing us collectively getting more responsible anytime this century... next century not lookin too good either. sooooo...



...I'm sorry but more government is usually not the best solution. I'll leave it at that since this isn't the PF.

[InfiniteNothing]

Propose something better. I don't eat fast food so tax away! Maybe it can offset the increased heath care impact of fast food places.

[clutchy]

Propose something better. I don't eat fast food so tax away! Maybe it can offset the increased heath care impact of fast food places.


I typically don't eat fast food either... it's bad for you.


as for a proposal, well. I guess my best idea would be to transport a criminal population out there and make them clean up trash. Debt to society and such, not to mention the embarassment factor.

maybe enforce some of the litter laws a little more strictly, not that it's easy catching someone littering. I've probably only seen it happen twice in my life(25yrs).


When you try to legislate to control a population you just end up with a bunch of ridiculous laws, such as speed limits in california. Yes, some things need to be legislated such as crimal conduct. Littering just doesn't fit well into that schema. What's next swearing? spitting? smoking is already getting it.

i think that whole slippery slope thing applies here.

[verve247]

:agree:

I don't see where this is a big help. Another business tax that gets passed on to the consumer.

Good. You should pay more if you are willing to eat that unhealthy fast food crap.

[Merlin]

I use my own bags when I shop for groceries. Besides the environmental concerns, I find them easier to carry over the plastic ones. Some stores pay you say $.35 to use your own since it saves them the cost of buying bags for you.


Where I shop the places have plastic bag recycling bins set up. I just dump my old bags there. :shrug:

[DarkFury]

I like Aldi's too. I think they rock!!! I like the fact that they charge you for bags and they charge you a "deposit" on the carts.

I personally like what they started in MI back in 80s. Charge a quarter for each (actually on .10 in MI now) can or bottle as a deposit. You get the money back when you return the can/bottle. This promotes a clean environment in 2 ways; 1) no bottles/cans as litter and 2) All bottles and cans are recycled. If you throw your can/bottle down on the ground someone else will pick it up b/c they want the money. That way nobody has to get taxed if they are good stewards of the environment, relative to disposing of and recycling cans and bottles.
I agree... that kind of tax would work. :thumb:

I remember buying Faygo Redpop soda (super cheap) in Detroit and hording my bottles so that I could return them for deposit when I was an intern workin' in Michigan.

[guiseppewv]

also, homeless people can pay for thier booze that way. a dozen or so empties = 1 full tallboy :P

That wasn't exactly how I was planning on having the clean-up take place but......ok. :)


If you wanna punish people who litter, how about we do this... we punish people who litter. We have littering laws in the books, how about we actually enforce them.

:stupid:

I think maybe raising the fines and actually enforcing the law would be great but I think the deposits on cans and bottles takes it a step further. This not only dissuades people from littering but it encourages recycling too. :)


I agree... that kind of tax would work. :thumb:

I remember buying Faygo Redpop soda (super cheap) in Detroit and hording my bottles so that I could return them for deposit when I was an intern workin' in Michigan.

It definitely works when the deposit is somewhat substantial. Just look in MI for a can or bottle on the side of the road. You aren't very likely to find one. There is all kinds of other trash (at least around Motown) but no cans or bottles.

[welfareloser]

...I'm sorry but more government is usually not the best solution. I'll leave it at that since this isn't the PF.

i agree... i was just pointing out that your two statements didn't really work together logically ;) carry on.