Blind Student Sues Target Over Web Site

[Itsme]

Only in a place like Berkeley would a judge even allow such a lawsuit.....unbelieveable.

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Blind Student Sues Target Over Web Site

Oakland, Calif. - February 9 - Target Corp. has been slammed with a class-action lawsuit by a blind UC Berkeley student alleging the retailer is committing civil-rights violations because its Web site is inaccessible to those who cannot see. The lawsuit claims target.com denies the blind equal access available to those who can see.

"Target thus excludes the blind from full and equal participation in the growing Internet economy that is increasingly a fundamental part of daily life," the suit states. The lawsuit, which was filed Tuesday in Alameda County Superior Court, alleges the violations fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act and various state statutes.

http://www.chainstoreage.com/story.cfm?ID=43699YZW&RefPage=Homepage

[DarkFury]

Only in a place like Berkeley would a judge even allow such a lawsuit.....unbelieveable.

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Blind Student Sues Target Over Web Site

Oakland, Calif. - February 9 - Target Corp. has been slammed with a class-action lawsuit by a blind UC Berkeley student alleging the retailer is committing civil-rights violations because its Web site is inaccessible to those who cannot see. The lawsuit claims target.com denies the blind equal access available to those who can see.

"Target thus excludes the blind from full and equal participation in the growing Internet economy that is increasingly a fundamental part of daily life," the suit states. The lawsuit, which was filed Tuesday in Alameda County Superior Court, alleges the violations fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act and various state statutes.

http://www.chainstoreage.com/story.cfm?ID=43699YZW&RefPage=Homepage

No... it is NOT unbelievable. The Private sector probably will eventually be getting some of the rules and regulations that the Public sector (i.e. Gubment webpages) has had to adhere to for the past few years.

Ever heard of the "Americans with Disabilities Act, Section 508? If not, there here is some info for ya:

http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Content&ID=3

http://www.access-board.gov/508.htm

http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/guide/act.htm

[nickel]

this shouldn't be too hard to do. just make everything possible audible - are there websites like that out there already? it seems like it would just be a software application.

[Jcranmer]

To me this is like going after GE for making a light bulb blind people can't see. The web is a visual thing. (At least for the most part)

I wonder if the same person would have considered sueing the webmaster of Goa*se. :puke:

[DarkFury]

this shouldn't be too hard to do. just make everything possible audible - are there websites like that out there already? it seems like it would just be a software application.
Screen readers are one way that make some pages accessible to the visually impaired.

The only problem is... the readers can't always interpret the coding that is in the page and that there are so many ways to actually code a page. In the gubment, they try to enforce "standards" however it has been a long hard road getting everything to work right.

Personally, I'll be happy to see the day when there is a "screen reader" that actually can read the screen just as you and I do visually... and interpret what it reads to the disabled user. That would make my job alot easier. :D


To me this is like going after GE for making a light bulb blind people can't see. The web is a visual thing.

I wonder if the same person would have considered sueing the webmaster of Goa*se. :puke:
that's the problem... folks want to exclude the disabled (who are people too that want information) from the benefits that you enjoy freely.

Pretty much we know that the web is "visual"... however these folks are only asking for some concessions not to be excluded from this information. Kinda like wheelchair ramps... they allow access to the building to someone who can't climb stairs, however they don't get rid of the stairs if you should choose to use that instead. Ultimately, the disabled are just asking for "equal access" to this info via the web.



BTW... blind people have lightbulbs in their houses so that the sighted can see where they are going when they visit in the dark of night. :heh:

[johnnymk]

What about porn for the blind?

[Cheesypuff]

what are other websites doing to remedy this problem? I'm VERY sure target is not the only retailer that doesn't cater to blind people.

[Cubsfan]

Just out of curiosity, are book publishers also required to make available braile or audio copies of their books? How about magazines? Do JCPenny catalogs have to be braile?

[blueindian]

what are other websites doing to remedy this problem? I'm VERY sure target is not the only retailer that doesn't cater to blind people.


like DF said, they make the section 508 compatiable. some of the things you can do are provide all-text versions of web pages with a bit of code at the top that directs screen-reading browsers to that page. you provide alt text for all images. stuff like that, it's a bit difficult now but in 10 years it will be seamless and commonplace.

a lawsuit in the private sector was just a matter of time. this will probably lead to the govt. setting a date by which all commercial and government sites must comply with ADA section 508.

[Jcranmer]

that's the problem... folks want to exclude the disabled (who are people too that want information) from the benefits that you enjoy freely.

Pretty much we know that the web is "visual"... however these folks are only asking for some concessions not to be excluded from this information. Kinda like wheelchair ramps... they allow access to the building to someone who can't climb stairs, however they don't get rid of the stairs if you should choose to use that instead. Ultimately, the disabled are just asking for "equal access" to this info via the web.



BTW... blind people have lightbulbs in their houses so that the sighted can see where they are going when they visit in the dark of night. :heh:

I don't disagree that blind people want (and need) the same benefits that the sighted have. I just don't think these kind of lawsuits do anyone any real good. My lightbulb idea was more of a joke then anything, but someone could just as likely decide to try and sue for that very reason. (And you never know, might just win)

My uncle (who passed away a few years ago) was blind almost all of his life, and was actually somewhat famous in the "blind communitity". As much of an advocate for the blind as he was, I just can't see him sueing a website because it didn't work with his screen reader.

Man, I never did a google search on my uncle before, aparently he really was famous and a very heavy internet user. (Only 17,300 google hits for him!)



Anyway just my 2 cents worth.

[gear02]

Btw the other problem with text to speech software is that I don't think they can read flash, and a lot of pages use flash now.

[Itsme]

Not really related, but it reminds me of a situation in the Times Square area of NYC some years ago. The mayor was looking for ways to get rid of the seedy theaters and showplaces. They found one place where the show had a phonebooth size shower on stage where a gal would undress in the shower in front of the audience. They got the place closed down because it didn't comply with the ADA requirements....the door to the shower wasn't big enough for showgirls who were in wheel chairs.

[Burzhui]

What about porn for the blind?


all you need to do is lower the temperature and you got nipples in brail

[welfareloser]

Not really related, but it reminds me of a situation in the Times Square area of NYC some years ago. The mayor was looking for ways to get rid of the seedy theaters and showplaces. They found one place where the show had a phonebooth size shower on stage where a gal would undress in the shower in front of the audience. They got the place closed down because it didn't comply with the ADA requirements....the door to the shower wasn't big enough for showgirls who were in wheel chairs.

funniest... story... ever :heh:


and this is basically a test case. of course target didn't do anything evil or malicious, and of course they're nto alone. but suing one company is simply the best, if not only, way a private citizen can deliver a wake up the private sector as a whole and get them to voluntarily make their stuff available to the disabled.

yeah, it still seems a bit silly now, but the web is becoming more and more important. in a few more years, it'll be more "necessity" than "luxury." it'll be like cars and telephones... you simply cannot be a productive member of society without cars and telephones these days. ditto the internet, soon enough.

[WhiskeyPapa]

what are other websites doing to remedy this problem? I'm VERY sure target is not the only retailer that doesn't cater to blind people.No, they're not the only one, but they do have some of the deepest pockets.

[zero2dash]

all you need to do is lower the temperature and you got nipples in brail

:lmfao:
...and you get the little bumps around the nipple that tell you the size of the breast :heh:

[Markel]

Why should she stop with just suing Target - she should be suing Al Gore (after all, he invented the whole mess).

[LPMiller]

slicing that bread more won't make it less stale, man.

[Markel]

slicing that bread more won't make it less stale, man.
I guess I needed some sort of smilie? It was a way of saying "Why doesn't she sue the whole internet?"

[Thesifer]

I'm willing to bet this lawsuit isn't won. I can't say I totally disagree with the Spirit of the Lawsuit. It is being gone about the wrong way though. For one you shouldn't sue one company for something that EVERY Website (including G|A ) is 100% "guilty" of.

There has to be another way to get around it. Like maybe starting a company for creating the software for the blind.

[Markel]

The next thing you know, someone will sue to have all traffic signs readable by the blind.... :rolleyes:

[LPMiller]

don't take me too seriously, just my way of saying, old joke.

[molecularfire]

Just out of curiosity, are book publishers also required to make available braile or audio copies of their books? How about magazines? Do JCPenny catalogs have to be braile?
I don't know but if Maxim comes out with a braille version, I will go buy a copy.

[Bires]

Don't forget the overkill clause in those government orders:

The net result will be that Federal agencies will have to purchase electronic and information technology that is accessible except where it would cause an "undue burden."

[Markel]

don't take me too seriously, just my way of saying, old joke.
No problem. I'm probably a bit on the touchy side - the problems for me this week make the worst other weeks seem like a walk in the park.

[Jcranmer]

The next thing you know, someone will sue to have all traffic signs readable by the blind.... :rolleyes:

Why not? Drive up ATMs already are. :)

[Itsme]

Will this person sue GM because their cars are not drivable by the blind?

[LPMiller]

yes, yes they will, because that is a logical progression from accessing information avaliable to everyone, and driving.

[nickel]

Will this person sue GM because their cars are not drivable by the blind?
cars that drive themselves are a work in progress.

[DarkFury]

Will this person sue GM because their cars are not drivable by the blind?
No because the blind have other means of using the road to go where they need to go... and they have equal access to ride in a GM car (as long as they aren't driving).

If they had someone to sit with them and read what is on the screen on the internet... then maybe it would be the same thing. However the "information highway" is still largely inaccessible to many people based on their physical limitations.

Trust me, I understand both sides of this issue as a sighted person who has to work with regulations that tell me to think in terms of the "non sighted" when building or updating gubment web pages.


cars that drive themselves are a work in progress.
This is currently called... "the bus". :D

[nickel]

This is currently called... "the bus". :D
you have a point, but if this invention actually debuts i can see blind people benefitting.


GM to Launch Self-driving System
Posted Aug 26th 2005 4:00PM by Lu Zhou
Filed under: Gadgets, Trends


Welcome to the future! Well, it's almost here…in a couple of years, GM will be launching a self-driving system on the 2008 Opel Vectra. Known as the Traffic Assist, the system is said to be able to drive the car on its own in heavy traffic at up to 60 mph. Using lasers, video camera and controlled by an advanced computer, the system can recognize signs and detect obstacles, controls the car via a complete drive-by-wire set up that covers throttle, steering and braking. While we've seen various manufacturers putting bits and pieces of these technologies on their cars, this would be the first example that combines them all and enabling your car to truly "think" for itself. A bit scary, if you think about it…I sure hope the computer doesn't run on Windows OS and requiring frequent reboots, especially at 60 mph. I think I'd prefer to do what Will Smith did in iRobot – deactivate the computer and take the wheel. But that's just me.
http://autoblog.com/2005/08/26/gm-to-launch-self-driving-system/