Hospital Holds Baby For Payment

[KIISQueen]

Israel's justice ministry is investigating a hospital that allegedly held a newborn baby as a "guarantee" until a bill was paid.
The ministry intervened last week following reports that East Jerusalem's al-Muqassad hospital held the girl, Israeli press reports say.

The mother, an Israeli citizen, gave birth to triplets two months ago.

The hospital denies keeping the baby and says the triplets were released at different times for medical reasons.

The births were premature and the babies required extensive hospital treatment.

The al-Muqassad hospital is an charitable Arab-run hospital in East Jerusalem.

'Normal procedure'

Because the children's father was a Palestinian resident of the West Bank, the hospital demanded payment of the bill as it was not certain of recovering the costs from the National Insurance Institute (NII), it is alleged.

When the woman said she was unable to pay, the hospital released only two of the babies, keeping the third as a "guarantee", newspaper reports said.

The mother left with just two babies and last week approached the justice ministry.

"We looked into the matter with the hospital," the ministry's head of legal aid, Eyal Globus, told Haaretz newspaper.

"And it turned out that things were exactly as the mother said they were - the third baby was being held there."

Mr Globus was told by the hospital director that this was the normal procedure for ensuring payment.

The ministry ordered the release of the child and said it would ensure the insurance fund reimbursed the hospital, newspaper reports said.

The woman's family told Haaretz that two other Israeli hospitals had turned her away because she could not pay a deposit of $72,500 (£40,000) before being admitted.

[Jenny]

link please...

[brainsmile]

link please...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4816152.stm

[ShawnLee]

This is so horrible. Imagine all the "cheap Jewish doctor" jokes that are going to come out of this one.

[bachviet]

Damn that's just horrible.

[Thesifer]

Ha. Figured this couldn't be something from the U.S. and it wasn't :)

[InfiniteNothing]

This is so horrible. Imagine all the "cheap Jewish doctor" jokes that are going to come out of this one.
Huh, I didn't think of that. But now that you mention it... ;)

[ufcrusher]

This is so horrible. Imagine all the "cheap Jewish doctor" jokes that are going to come out of this one.


The al-Muqassad hospital is an charitable Arab-run hospital in East Jerusalem

Reading comprehension is key here. Its an ARAB run hospital with a lovely ARAB name, yet somehow you come out with a stereotypical joke about "cheap Jewish doctor".

I am sure you didnt mean anything offensive by your comment and were just trying to be funny, but if you are going to try and make an off color joke...at least make sure that the facts support it. Otherwise its just sad.


Huh, I didn't think of that. But now that you mention it... ;)
Enough said.

[ShawnLee]

Touche, sorry. My bad. Not trying to be funny, apparently just failing miserably.

[welfareloser]

Ha. Figured this couldn't be something from the U.S. and it wasn't :)

yeah, in the US they just pull the plug and let your ill baby die when you can't pay :|

[BigJon]

Did they actually hold the babies for payment? Or was this just the claims of a pannicky new mother?

[guiseppewv]

From this quote, I would think that it actually happened. :shrug:


"And it turned out that things were exactly as the mother said they were - the third baby was being held there."

[clutchy]

yeah, in the US they just pull the plug and let your ill baby die when you can't pay :|

BS :bash:

[welfareloser]

BS :bash:

in the US, the plug can get pulled on babies who can't pay: i am right. it is not BS: you are wrong.

http://www.click2houston.com/health/4286333/detail.html

to recap: bush signed a texas law that allows hospitals to pull the plug on patients who can't pay, against their/their family's wishes.

discussed in these threads:

http://forums.gotapex.com/showthread.php?t=85965

http://forums.gotapex.com/showthread.php?t=86284

[clutchy]

in the US, the plug can get pulled on babies who can't pay: i am right. it is not BS: you are wrong.

http://www.click2houston.com/health/4286333/detail.html

to recap: bush signed a texas law that allows hospitals to pull the plug on patients who can't pay, against their/their family's wishes.

discussed in these threads:

http://forums.gotapex.com/showthread.php?t=85965

http://forums.gotapex.com/showthread.php?t=86284


It's a state law, and it's in TX, home of personal responsibility.


If illegals can go into an emergency room and wait around till all the triage stuff is out of the way so they can get regular checkups for their kids, there is no way they're going to "pull the plug" on kids.

except in TX and i applaud that decision. Law is good and all, but has it actually happened? I doubt, it once or twice at the most.


EDIT: what exactly does the word "futile" mean to you?

[LPMiller]

actually, it has happened. And I'm curious how personal responsibility involves someone who is unable to claim any.

[clutchy]

actually, it has happened. And I'm curious how personal responsibility involves someone who is unable to claim any.


doesn't have anything to do with the kid, tx is a state that values personal responsibility. that's the only thing i was saying


In the particular case cited by Welfareloser, the child was going to die anyways

[welfareloser]

doesn't have anything to do with the kid, tx is a state that values personal responsibility. that's the only thing i was saying


In the particular case cited by Welfareloser, the child was going to die anyways

we're all going to die anyway. doesn't make our last moments less valuable. i'm having trouble applauding a law that connects your right to live with the size of your pocketbook.

doesn't have anything to do with the kid? you mean the one who was given an early death sentence to save money? yeah. the kid was totally irrelevant :rolleyes:


there is no way they're going to "pull the plug" on kids.

except in TX and i applaud that decision. Law is good and all, but has it actually happened? I doubt, it once or twice at the most.

a guy who is against abortion applauds the penny-pinching murder of a born child. how morally consistent.

i'll hold my applause until we *fund* hospitals that are mandated to provide health care to the uninsured, and maybe even *gasp* raise medicare and medicaid payments to physicians and hospitals to ABOVE cost, rather than below, making such decisions unnecessary for hospitals to stay afloat.

and if you'd follow links, you'd know it has happened. but hey, only once or twice, so it's all cool?

personal responsibility? you're poor... so we'll off your kid. your fault for having a sick kid when you're poor? explain the personal responsibility for me. the child's, especially. i'm missing it.




Now, seriously. look at the tortuous path your arguments have taken. first you say i'm lying. so i provide proof. but instead of simply conceding that it was not BS, your next argument is to not look at the proof, say you "don't think" it's actually happened, and throw in that, oh yeah, you applaud it, anyway (a viewpoint which your religion might not be real happy with; you may want to check into that.) where are you going next?

[clutchy]

we're all going to die anyway. doesn't make our last moments less valuable. i'm having trouble applauding a law that connects your right to live with the size of your pocketbook.

doesn't have anything to do with the kid? you mean the one who was given an early death sentence to save money? yeah. the kid was totally irrelevant :rolleyes:


There is no guarantee of life. With the advances in technology, society has somehow developed an entitlement attitude. There is guarantee of life. If you can't pay for the advanced care to keep you alive, well then you're going to meet your maker sooner than you thought.

The infant going to die anyway. Do you remember anything just after being born? no, that's right nobody does. there is no quality of life at that point just life.



a guy who is against abortion applauds the penny-pinching murder of a born child. how morally consistent.

i'll hold my applause until we *fund* hospitals that are mandated to provide health care to the uninsured, and maybe even *gasp* raise medicare and medicaid payments to physicians and hospitals to ABOVE cost, rather than below, making such decisions unnecessary for hospitals to stay afloat.

and if you'd follow links, you'd know it has happened. but hey, only once or twice, so it's all cool?

personal responsibility? you're poor... so we'll off your kid. your fault for having a sick kid when you're poor? explain the personal responsibility for me. the child's, especially. i'm missing it.

again, there is no "right" to care. There shouldn't be, although in this country anyone can turn up in the ER and receive the care they need.

If you want to come up with the billions of dollars to overfund hospitals be my guest. Where is it going to come from? You?

again, the kid terminally ill, there is no quality of life at that point.

personal responsibility applies to those who are able to make decisions for themselves, nothing to do with the kid. Although in this case the mothers irresponsibility has affected her child.



Now, seriously. look at the tortuous path your arguments have taken. first you say i'm lying. so i provide proof. but instead of simply conceding that it was not BS, your next argument is to not look at the proof, say you "don't think" it's actually happened, and throw in that, oh yeah, you applaud it, anyway (a viewpoint which your religion might not be real happy with; you may want to check into that.) where are you going next?

Can you provide me an example besides this single case? I wrote that above statement prior to reading your evidence, but I also added that it might have happened once or twice. You make it sound that this is a regular occurrence in this country and yet you fail to mention it's only one state law, and it's probably only happened a handful of times.

for me it comes down to entitlements. I don't think anyone is entitled to anything in this country except life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The doctors didn't "kill" this baby the baby died because it was unable to support itself.

I don't know why you keep bringing up my religion it has nothing to do with that.

[welfareloser]

again, there is no "right" to care.

actually, the laws of this country say that there is.


There shouldn't be,

perfectly valid opinion of how it ought to be. but that's not how it is. the laws of this country say otherwise.


although in this country anyone can turn up in the ER and receive the care they need.

right. because it's mandated. by law.


If you want to come up with the billions of dollars to overfund hospitals be my guest. Where is it going to come from? You?.

i've donated my time providing health care to indigent children, as has my husband. we will continue to do so. i can't come up with billions, obviously. the country as a whole can, and i wouldn't mind seeing it do so. just my opinion :shrug:

and you're missing my point, anyway. my beef is that the law mandates that care be given to the indigent, and then does nothing to fund it. in fact, it cuts funding to medicare and medicaid, such that fewer people can get it, and those that do can't find doctors willing to take them as patients because the government pays them less than their overhead to do so - the doctors are forced into providing the charity. hospitals everywhere go into the red and close because the government says they have to provide ER treatment to people whether or not they can pay, but then does not help them pay for it. unfunded mandates = hypocrisy. i'd like to see the inherent hypocrisy resolved. no other profession is forced to provide services for free, and it's not cool that fewer and fewer people have a hospital in their area because their local hospital was small, couldn't absorb the blows, and closed.


Although in this case the mothers irresponsibility has affected her child...

poverty, and being uninsured, are hardly perfectly correlated with irresponsibility.


Can you provide me an example besides this single case? I wrote that above statement prior to reading your evidence, but I also added that it might have happened once or twice. You make it sound that this is a regular occurrence in this country and yet you fail to mention it's only one state law, and it's probably only happened a handful of times..

it happened once. the law leaves it wide open to happen again and again. i don't think it should happen at all :shrug:

i did not make it sound like it was a regular occurence. i said it's something we do in this country, which is absolutely true. everything else you're talking about are your own assumptions that did not come from anything i said. so... it's kind of silly for you to direct your nitpicking... of stuff you came up with... at me. go discuss it amongst yourself :P


for me it comes down to entitlements. I don't think anyone is entitled to anything in this country except life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

okay. that's your opinion. note that i never took issue with that opinion.


again, the kid terminally ill, there is no quality of life at that point.

The doctors didn't "kill" this baby the baby died because it was unable to support itself.

I don't know why you keep bringing up my religion it has nothing to do with that.

i bring it up because your views are completely inconsistent with the religion you claim. what you're doing is the equivalent of saying "me and my homosexual lover are devout mormons." you can say it, but that doesn't make it true... some things really are mutually exclusive. you have to pick one or the other; you can't have both.

i'd humbly suggest changing either your mind or your denomination, unless you like internal disagreement...


There is no guarantee of life. ... There is guarantee of life.

which i guess you do. ;) you're anti-abortion, but pro-pulling-the-plug-on-poor-babies. i see a conflict there. if you don't... that's fascinating.


The infant going to die anyway. Do you remember anything just after being born? no, that's right nobody does. there is no quality of life at that point just life.

that's a very minority opinion. my opinion is quite different... quite a bit more christian, actually :P

anyway, again... i can't say your opinion is wrong, and i'm not trying to. i'm simply saying that "he was going to die anyway" and "it was okay becuase he's a baby, and babies don't count because they're all little and stupid and stuff" are horrendously, massively, screamingly, acid-trip-technicoloredly incompatible with so many other things you've said.