Duke Lacrosse Team - Rape Allegation

[DarkFury]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ESPNSports/story?id=1770656&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312



Duke Lacrosse Rape Claim Spurs Outrage

Police Have Taken DNA From 46 Players

March 26, 2006 — Following accusations that several Duke University lacrosse team members raped a dancer, a group of concerned Durham, N.C., residents staged a "wake-up call" today against sexual assault.

Standing in front of the house where the alleged assault occurred, the group beat and banged on pots and pans early this morning to protest the attack.

Last week, DNA samples were taken from 46 members of thelacrosse team. Investigators are trying to identify at least three men suspected of raping and beating the woman, who was hired to dance at a party.

"We're not saying that all 46 were involved," Durham Police Cpl. David Addison said recently. "But we do know that some of the players inside that house on that evening knew what transpired and we need them to come forward."

So far, no charges have been filed against any of the players. The team, which is currently ranked No. 2 and has been considered a favorite to win this year's national championship, forfeited two games — one yesterday and one that would have been played on this coming Tuesday — because of the allegations.

'Totally Deplorable'

"If what is alleged is in fact true, it's totally deplorable," Duke spokesman John Burness told ABC station WTVD-TV in Duhram this past week. "That is not what this institution stands for nor do we believe it's what our students stand for."

According to a search warrant, the victim and another woman went to a university-owned house on March 13, where three members of the team live. When the men became aggressive, the women left but another player apologized and convinced them to return.

The women returned to the house, but were separated. The victim alleges she was forced into a bathroom and assaulted. The men also allegedly yelled racial slurs at the women.

The victim, who is black, later contacted police from a grocery store and reported the attack.

"That brutal assault, that brutal rape that occurred within that house, cannot be explained by anyone," Addison said.

Duke Provost Peter Lang seemed unwilling to speculate on the allegations.

"Do I know that those crimes happened in a way that would allow me to take a position on that? No," he said. "That's why we have the police. That's why the police have the means to undertake steps to investigate the crime that Duke could never have."



Wow... WTF were they thinking? Probably too much beer and partying and whatnot, however even if you hire dancers to party with you, that doesn't give ya the right to do whatever you want with them nor utter the racial slurs and whatnot.

But then again... we're talkin' the LACROSSE team here... big whoop right? :heh: (<--- me not laughin' at the crime that is alleged here :2far: )

[nickel]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ESPNSports/story?id=1770656&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312



Wow... WTF were they thinking? Probably too much beer and partying and whatnot, however even if you hire dancers to party with you, that doesn't give ya the right to do whatever you want with them nor utter the racial slurs and whatnot.

But then again... we're talkin' the LACROSSE team here... big whoop right? :heh: (<--- me not laughin' at the crime that is alleged here :2far: )
i heard that one player was exempt from the DNA testing because he was the only black player on the team and the victim claimed her assailant(s) weren't black.

well DNA tells no lies, and with the team/coaches coming out so strongly that this event didn't happen, and if that is so, i wonder what happens to the girl caught lying? we all know what will happen to those involved if the event did happen, and i hope it's a swift and just punishment.

[blueindian]

this is big news around here, what with dook being right up the road. i've not yet seen any reports as to whether any of the lacrosse team indicate having consensual sex with the stripper.

[coleslaw]

Minnesota Vikings unavailable for comment. :|

[DarkFury]

Minnesota Vikings unavailable for comment. :|
Bwaaa haa haa... :bigmouth: :laugh: (Sorry bout that... I had to laugh)

"the party boat theory" eh?


But seriously... this is not a good thing. :2far: :hehehmm:

[MikeD]

Key word here is alleged. Be interesting to see how things shake out...

[nickel]

Lawyer: Woman Came to Duke Party Injured

DURHAM, N.C. - Time-stamped photographs will show an exotic dancer was already injured and "very impaired" when she arrived at a party where she claims she was raped by members of Duke University's men's lacrosse team, an attorney for one of the players said Sunday.

Durham attorney Bill Thomas said some of the photographs, taken when she arrived at the house, indicate the woman was injured before getting to the party March 13. They show extensive bruises and scrapes on her legs, especially around the knees, he said.

"This young lady was substantially impaired. She had fallen several times during the course of the evening," Thomas said.

He declined to identify the player he represents and said he would not release the photos, taken by at least two cameras, until pending DNA tests are completed.

He also wouldn't say whether the photos were taken by a lacrosse team member or someone else; court documents have indicated that only team members were present at the party.

No one has been charged in the case, but the allegations that members of the nearly all-white team raped the woman, a black student at a nearby university, have rocked both Duke and Durham.

The allegations have led to the resignation of coach Mike Pressler, the cancellation of the lacrosse season and the suspension of one player from school.

Several dozen people gathered Sunday outside the house where the party took place, and pledged to return each Sunday until the case is resolved.

"Whether I want to believe it, or whether you want to believe it, something took place in there," said Johnny Williamson, 36, of Durham. "Something indecent took place."

District Attorney Mike Nifong, who was expected to return this week from an out-of-town conference and has not commented on the case in the past several days, has said previously he is confident a rape occurred. Court documents said a medical exam of the alleged victim found injuries consistent with sexual assault.

The victim has not returned repeated messages seeking comment, but her father said Sunday she hasn't changed her story.

"I expect them to say that," he said of the lawyers' contentions his daughter is lying.

The woman and the other dancer arrived separately, Thomas said, and performed briefly before leaving. The victim told police she and the other dancer left because they feared for their safety, but were later convinced to come back inside.

Thomas said the photos contradict the alleged victim's assertion she was scared, as they show her standing at the door of the off-campus house with "a major grin on her face" as she tried to get back inside.

"People inside the house have stated she was banging on the door, attempting to regain entry," Thomas said.

The woman told police she was pulled into a bathroom and assaulted after coming back into the house. But Thomas said the woman locked herself in the bathroom, where police later found her purse, cell phone, and several artificial fingernails she claimed to have lost during a struggle with her attackers.

Thomas said one of the attorneys representing team members had interviewed the other dancer extensively, and she said the alleged victim never told her about a rape.

"All of these statements you've heard ... about this brutal assault, rape, kidnapping and robbery which occurred, I believe that the public will soon be able to learn the truth, and that these allegations are totally false and without merit," Thomas said.

Both the team's captains and attorneys for team members have said the DNA tests, which may be completed this week, will prove the allegation are false. The players' attorneys also have raised other questions about the allegations, saying e-mails written in the hours after the alleged attack will help prove the players' claims that nothing happened that night.

Attorneys also have raised suspicions about a 911 call, made shortly after the alleged attack would have occurred, from a black woman who claimed someone at the party shouted racial slurs at her and a friend. The caller alternatively told police the pair were driving and walking past the house. Thomas said Sunday he and other attorneys believe the second dancer at the party made the call.

"These young men have been absolutely vilified in the press," Thomas said. "I think this week we will go a long ways toward clearing these young men's names. I can assure you that this has been a nightmare for each and every one of them."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060410/ap_on_re_us/duke_lacrosse_investigation;_ylt=ApEAZin5k6TQOOF1D30rkVWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

[zippyjuan]

This is starting to sound a bit like the "sex recruiting scandal" at my alma matter, the University Of Colorado just a few years ago. A woman claimed she was raped at a party for football recruits where alcohol and sex were allegedly provided for the players. It was national headlines which said that CU was using sex and alcohol to recruit players. But it was only after a long time that the real details came out. The woman and a couple of friends were drinking starting in the middle of the afternoon. They met a few guys who happened to be in town on a recruiting visit to the university and invited them over. Meanwhile the girls went out and bought more alcohol. After a while the guys showed up. Somebody had some pot that was smoked. Around the living room the girls had dishes with condoms in them - like candy would have been set out for the party. People got drunk. Some may have had sex. It was after midnight that the alleged attack took place- so they had been drinking for about eight hours Young kids away from home on a college campus. Alcohol. Condoms. What was the poor boy to think? The University was blamed for it and the rape charge was eventually thrown out. The coach eventually lost his job.

[jstreet]

Interesting op ed: http://www.slate.com/id/2139536/

[nickel]

well this case just took a big Tawana Brawley turn. :2far:

the DNA test results were just read to the public and not one of the 46 players tested had any DNA on or in this vindictive lying biotch. :mad:

SHE needs to be charged with a crime now.


Lawyer: No DNA Match in Duke Gang Rape Case
Monday, April 10, 2006

DURHAM, N.C. — There is no DNA match between members of Duke University's men's lacrosse team and an exotic dancer who told police she was raped at a team party, attorneys for the team said Monday.

"No DNA material from any young man was present on the body of this complaining woman," said Raleigh attorney Wade Smith.

Citing DNA test results delivered by the state crime lab to police and prosecutors a few hours earlier, the attorneys said the test results prove their clients did not sexually assault and beat a stripper hired to perform at a March 13 team party.

No charged have been filed in the case. The alleged victim, a 27-year-old student at nearby North Carolina Central University, told police she and another woman were hired to dance at the party. The woman told police that three men at the party dragged her into a bathroom, choked her, raped her and sodomized her.

Authorities ordered 46 of the 47 players on Duke's lacrosse team to submit DNA samples to investigators. Because the woman said her attackers were white, the team's sole black player was not tested.

District Attorney Mike Nifong stopped speaking with reporters last week after initially talking openly about the case, including stating publicly that he was confident a crime occurred. He went on to say he will have other evidence to make his case should the DNA analysis prove inconclusive or fail to match a member of the team.

Smith said Nifong now has the evidence needed to change his mind.

"He doesn't have to do it," Smith said of filing charges. "He is a man with discretion. He doesn't have to do it, and we hope that he won't."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191232,00.html

[gwilks98]

15 years ago, this would have been shushed and handled internally by the university system. In general, Universities come a LONG way (thanks to the fed govt) in stepping up their responses to sexual assault.

The old school track record makes me hope this is not a case of tampering with evidence to keep it quiet.

She's going to be dragged over the coals for this if she made it up. Did they find ANY DNA on/in her person?

[clutchy]

well well well...DF it looks like you owe the men an apology.

[zenbooty]

well well well...DF it looks like you owe the men an apology.
What did DF say that warrants apology? I don't see anything here :shrug:

[welfareloser]

well well well...DF it looks like you owe the men an apology.

uhhh... 2 problems there. lack of dna doesn't prove that they didn't do anything. not by a longshot. nor does the fact that she was previously injured and altered. secondly, darkfury specifically acknowledged that it was an ALLEGED crime.





it's freakin scary how many times high-profile rape charges have turned out to be false (i was givin this one a 50-50, myself) and yet still, to this day, things can go down such that there is a suspension, a cancelled season, and a resigned coach ... before any of the evidence is even analyzed.


"Whether I want to believe it, or whether you want to believe it, something took place in there," said Johnny Williamson, 36, of Durham. "Something indecent took place."

i mean, whoa. if they didn't rape, forcibly restrain, or otherwise hurt the women... nothing bad should happen to them. exotic dancers and booze? big deal. i mean, go ahead and punish any underage drinking, same way you would any other underage drinking, but... absent a rape/kidnapping/beating/theft, this ain't no scandal.

[nickel]

15 years ago, this would have been shushed and handled internally by the university system. In general, Universities come a LONG way (thanks to the fed govt) in stepping up their responses to sexual assault.

The old school track record makes me hope this is not a case of tampering with evidence to keep it quiet.

She's going to be dragged over the coals for this if she made it up. Did they find ANY DNA on/in her person?
no. i heard one of the lawyers announcing the results and he said that it was determined she hadn't had sex with anyone in at least the past 2 days prior to the test.

also, the bathroom where she said the attack occurred contained none of her DNA. read: she hadn't even been there at all.

and... there are photos taken of her showing that she was injured even before she arrived at the party.

this is no cover up. it is a dancer seeking revenge for being thrown out, maybe not paid what she felt she was worth, and possibly being racially slurred. all of which i don't condone, but what she did is still unjustifiable.

[gwilks98]

lack of dna doesn't prove that they didn't do anything. not by a longshot.

Agreed...that's why I want to know if they found any DNA, or no DNA. I'd be more likely to believe the lacrosse players if they found (Multiple) DNA samples and it didn't match any of them.

..but then again, did the lacrosse players have anyone else with them that weren't mentioned?

This one's a tough one. My heart goes out to the girl if she really was raped. Next time, take a body guard if you're going to do a house call. If anything else, he's a witness.

[nickel]

Agreed...that's why I want to know if they found any DNA, or no DNA. I'd be more likely to believe the lacrosse players if they found (Multiple) DNA samples and it didn't match any of them.

..but then again, did the lacrosse players have anyone else with them that weren't mentioned?

This one's a tough one. My heart goes out to the girl if she really was raped. Next time, take a body guard if you're going to do a house call. If anything else, he's a witness.
i answered your question above. they found no DNA on her at all. one of the reporters did ask that question.

gwilks, she wasn't raped. there would have been some DNA evidence.

also, they claim to have photographic evidence that she showed up at the party already drunk/impaired and that is the reason she was shown the door.

[welfareloser]

gwilks, she wasn't raped. there would have been some DNA evidence.


it's unlikely that she was raped, not certain that she was not. a condom, restraining her such that she was unable to struggle, etc... there are all kinds of things that could result in no dna being found on her.

abner louima probly didn't have any dna on him. doesn't mean three cops didn't shove a broomstick up his butt.

but, yeah, all in all, i'd be pretty confident in placing my bets on it being a hoax.

[nickel]

it's unlikely that she was raped, not certain that she was not. a condom, restraining her such that she was unable to struggle, etc... there are all kinds of things that could result in no dna being found on her.

abner louima probly didn't have any dna on him. doesn't mean three cops didn't shove a broomstick up his butt.

but, yeah, all in all, i'd be pretty confident in placing my bets on it being a hoax.
the reporters also asked about a condom being used and it was stated that there still would be DNA evidence present on her.

and even if she were restrained there would be her DNA present in the bathroom where she said the rape took place. there was none.

[DarkFury]

well well well...DF it looks like you owe the men an apology.
An apology for what? Reporting the news of that day that I posted the topic?

Get real... :pfft:

[Ladogaboy]

My coaches always told us to be weary of what we did, because no matter what it was or where we did it, it would always reflect on the team. It sucks that their season was cut short and the coach lost his job, all based on an allegation. Even if she was raped, these guys should have been innocent until proven guilty.

[gwilks98]

i answered your question above. they found no DNA on her at all. one of the reporters did ask that question.

gwilks, she wasn't raped. there would have been some DNA evidence.

also, they claim to have photographic evidence that she showed up at the party already drunk/impaired and that is the reason she was shown the door.
I didn't see your post until after I drafted mine and checked back a few hrs later. I can't post 'em as fast as you can respond, apparently.

[welfareloser]

the reporters also asked about a condom being used and it was stated that there still would be DNA evidence present on her.

and even if she were restrained there would be her DNA present in the bathroom where she said the rape took place. there was none.

it was stated by whom? the defense lawyer? i ask only because that simply isn't a 100% certainty. there would most likely be dna on her, but not necessarily. same with the bathroom, especially if anyone decided to clean it after the woman split.

[Wizard]

I'd like to see what the black lacrosse player has to say about this. Or better yet, why not ask each and every player. Hmm it might be too late now they would have had their stories all figured out.

DNA evidence is only part of the evidence, never all of it. There is a reason people have vacated positions and lacrosse has been canceled. Something foul went down and the truth is still not fully out.

[nickel]

it was stated by whom? the defense lawyer? i ask only because that simply isn't a 100% certainty. there would most likely be dna on her, but not necessarily. same with the bathroom, especially if anyone decided to clean it after the woman split.
i'm not a CSI expert, but i am going on what i hear on the tv and in articles i've read. so far i haven't heard anyone say that there would not be any DNA evidence on her if a condom was used as this wasn't consensual sex, but a rape in which she would have struggled and therefore used her fingernails for example in the struggle. i am sure they swabbed everywhere on her body trying hard to get duke lacrosse player DNA.

as far as cleaning the bathroom to remove her DNA i don't think investigators are that dumb. they can tell if some place is freshly cleaned or detect cleaning products. also, 2 of the player's DNA *was* found in said bathroom, but it was consistent with the two players who normally use that bathroom.

i know some will try to cast shadows of doubt, but i think it will come out that this woman blantantly lied and hopefully she will admit to it.

[MikeD]

There is still a lot left to be said here. By no means is this even close to completion.

A few things that do stand out:

1. It was a lawyer discussing these results. Not exactly a neutral third party. Anything said should be taken with a grain of salt.

2. We're talking DNA evidence here. Pretty huge turn in this case. If things had gone as she said they had, in such a brutal fashion, something would have turned up. Yes, DNA evidence isn't everything...but it's a whole lotta sumthin'. Absolutely no denying that, and that if this evidence is in fact true (i.e., no DNA), then the prosecution just got dealt a pretty big setback.

This is going to wind up being more about race than about rape...:disa:


well well well...DF it looks like you owe the men an apology.

:heh:

Good luck with that my friend...

[welfareloser]

i'm not a CSI expert, but i am going on what i hear on the tv and in articles i've read. so far i haven't heard anyone say that there would not be any DNA evidence on her if a condom was used as this wasn't consensual sex, but a rape in which she would have struggled and therefore used her fingernails for example in the struggle. i am sure they swabbed everywhere on her body trying hard to get duke lacrosse player DNA.

i've actually taken a class on dna evidence :P so, i'm no expert either, but there were quite a few of them, so they may well have been able to hold her so effectively that she could barely move. if they were able to grab the womans wrists, bend her over, etc (etc = "i don't wanna get too graphic") and she was unable to bite or scratch, - likely enough if she was under the influence at the time - and they assaulted her with a condom and didn't go too deep (reasonable enough, given that rape is generally about a power game, not a high-quality sexual experience for the assailant), or assaulted her with an object instead of a body part, it just isn't a foregone conclusion that dna would be found. there have been cases where the guilt of a rapist was later proven by other means, though not a speck of dna was to be found.


as far as cleaning the bathroom to remove her DNA i don't think investigators are that dumb. they can tell if some place is freshly cleaned or detect cleaning products. also, 2 of the player's DNA *was* found in said bathroom, but it was consistent with the two players who normally use that bathroom.

of course; sorry, didn't mean to imply that the investigators couldn't tell. i was just going with if i didn't hear about it, it's unknown... and i don't know much since i haven't gotten my newsweek this week yet. but yeah, if it reeked of bleach in there, of course they woulda mentioned that.


i know some will try to cast shadows of doubt, but i think it will come out that this woman blantantly lied and hopefully she will admit to it.

i'm not trying to cast shadows of doubt... just the facts, ma'am. and lack of dna is not a fact of innocence, thassall ;) anyway, i totally agree that we're probably about to see a headline where the idiot finally realizes it's time to recant.

[nickel]

i've actually taken a class on dna evidence :P so, i'm no expert either, but there were quite a few of them, so they may well have been able to hold her so effectively that she could barely move. if they were able to grab the womans wrists, bend her over, etc (etc = "i don't wanna get too graphic") and she was unable to bite or scratch, - likely enough if she was under the influence at the time - and they assaulted her with a condom and didn't go too deep (reasonable enough, given that rape is generally about a power game, not a high-quality sexual experience for the assailant), or assaulted her with an object instead of a body part, it just isn't a foregone conclusion that dna would be found. there have been cases where the guilt of a rapist was later proven by other means, though not a speck of dna was to be found.
this is what is being said about a condom use in this case:

Cheshire said even if the alleged attackers used a condom, it's likely there would have been some DNA evidence found suggesting an assault took place. He said in this case, the report states there was no DNA on her to indicate that she had sex of any type recently.

"The experts will tell you that if there was a condom used they would still be able to pick up DNA, latex, lubricant and all other types of things to show that — and that's not here," Cheshire said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191232,00.html




of course; sorry, didn't mean to imply that the investigators couldn't tell. i was just going with if i didn't hear about it, it's unknown... and i don't know much since i haven't gotten my newsweek this week yet. but yeah, if it reeked of bleach in there, of course they woulda mentioned that.

i'm not trying to cast shadows of doubt... just the facts, ma'am. and lack of dna is not a fact of innocence, thassall ;) anyway, i totally agree that we're probably about to see a headline where the idiot finally realizes it's time to recant.

from what i've read this morning i don't think that these guys will ever be totally exonerated despite any amount of evidence to the contrary.
evidence tampering, lab report coverups, and the like are already being thrown out there by those who don't want to believe that a rape actually may not have occurred. i wonder if the woman came out and said she lied if that would make 100% of the people believe. probably not - there would still be people who say she was coerced into admitting that. :2far:

[welfareloser]

from what i've read this morning i don't think that these guys will ever be totally exonerated despite any amount of evidence to the contrary.
evidence tampering, lab report coverups, and the like are already being thrown out there by those who don't want to believe that a rape actually may not have occurred. i wonder if the woman came out and said she lied if that would make 100% of the people believe. probably not - there would still be people who say she was coerced into admitting that. :2far:

pretty damned scary. i don't understand what gets people so attached to their ideas that they can't just say "oops" and move on...

y'know, my husband was saying the other night (we were watching the movie "havoc" ) that he was glad we didn't have girls, worrying about them sexually, blah, blah... i say fiddlesticks. i'm more worried about my boys getting screwed like this than i'd ever be about my daughter being raped.

[MikeD]

Hmmm...someone is starting to look a bit :shifty:


Police: Duke accuser 'passed-out drunk'

DURHAM, N.C. -- A woman who claims she was sexually assaulted by members of Duke University's lacrosse team was described as "just passed-out drunk" by one of the first police officers to see her, according to a recording of radio traffic released by Durham police on Thursday and obtained by The Associated Press.

The conversation between the officer and a police dispatcher took place about 1:30 a.m. March 14, about five minutes after a grocery store security guard called 911 to report a woman in the parking lot who would not get out of someone else's car.

The officer gave the dispatcher the police code for an intoxicated person and said the woman was unconscious. When asked whether she needed medical help, the officer said: "She's breathing and appears to be fine. She's not in distress. She's just passed-out drunk."

The black woman, a 27-year-old dancer and college student, told police she was sexually assaulted and beaten by three white men around midnight at an off-campus party thrown by Duke's lacrosse team. The racially charged allegations have led Duke to cancel the highly ranked team's season and accept the resignation of its coach.

No charges have been filed, but district attorney Mike Nifong has said he believes a crime was committed. Attorneys for the players have said DNA tests failed to connect any players to the alleged attack, and they have urged Nifong to drop his investigation.

The radio recordings, obtained by the AP through a records request, are the first instance in which police or anyone connected with the investigation has said the woman appeared to be intoxicated.

Defense lawyers, however, have said time-stamped photographs taken by the players show that the accuser was drunk and had already suffered some injuries when she arrived at the house for the party.

The recording is consistent with "what I have seen of the photo evidence before," attorney Kerry Sutton said. Those photos, she said, showed that she was "way beyond where you would put somebody behind the wheel of a car."

The description of the woman's medical exam -- which Nifong has said is his basis for believing a rape occurred -- does not mention her being drunk. It states only that the woman's injuries and behavior were consistent with having been raped, sexually assaulted and having suffered a traumatic experience.

The woman has told police she and another dancer hired to dance at the party arrived at 11:30 p.m. March 13. The pair reportedly left the house a short time later, fearing for their safety. The accuser told police the two were coaxed back into the house with an apology, at which point they were separated. That's when she said she was dragged into a bathroom and sexually assaulted, beaten and choked for a half-hour.

At 12:53 a.m., police received a 911 call from a woman complaining that she had been called racial slurs by white men gathered outside the home where the party took place.

The defense has said it believes the second dancer at the party made that call. The 911 call from the grocery store security guard was placed at 1:22 a.m.

In it, the caller says, "Um, the problem is ... it's a lady in somebody else's car and she will not get out of their car. She's like, she's like intoxicated, drunk or something. She's, I mean, she won't get out of the car, period."

A police spokeswoman did not immediately return a call seeking comment on the radio traffic.

The case has focused intense national scrutiny on Duke and the lacrosse players and has sparked protests on the elite private university's campus and elsewhere in Durham. The school last week canceled the highly ranked team's season and coach Mike Pressler resigned after the release of a vulgar and graphic e-mail sent by a team member shortly after the alleged assault.

Several of the defense attorneys say they expect the district attorney to ask a grand jury on Monday to issue charges in connection with allegations.
"Rest up on Sunday," Sutton said.

There has been no official word, however, on whether Nifong intends to present the allegations Monday. His next opportunity would come two weeks later.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2407782

[faither]

"Exclusive: Guard Who Saw Alleged Duke Victim Says No Sign or Mention of Rape"

By CHRIS CUOMO and LARA SETRAKIAN

April 17, 2006 — ABC News has obtained a tape in which a security guard — who may have been the first person to see the alleged victim of a Duke lacrosse gang rape after the alleged attack — says there were no signs or mention of rape or sexual assault.

ABC News has obtained an audio recording of what is purported to be a private investigator interviewing a security guard at a Kroger grocery store. It was this security guard whose call to 911 brought police to the Kroger parking lot, where they found the woman who claims she was raped by lacrosse team members.


The guard was on duty at the store on the night of March 13, when the two women pulled into the store's parking lot in a dark sedan. The alleged victim, who says three men held her down in a bathroom and kicked, strangled and raped her, was in the passenger seat.

On the tape, which was recorded April 3, three weeks after the lacrosse party, the guard can be heard saying, "There ain't no way she was raped — ain't no way, no way that happened."

The security guard says she smelled alcohol on the driver, but not on the alleged victim. She says that the alleged victim "couldn't talk at all. … She was out of it." The security guard also suggests the alleged victim may have been high on drugs. She had a series of conversations with the woman who was driving the car, but did not speak with the alleged victim.

The guard says the woman behind the wheel entered the grocery store at approximately 1 a.m. and told her that she needed help, saying there was a girl in her car who refused to get out.

A voice on the tape asks the guard whether there was anything mentioned about stolen items or sexual assault. The guard says that there was no mention of theft nor assault from either woman, adding that the alleged victim didn't act the way she'd expect someone to act after being assaulted or raped.

On the tape, the guard recounts the conversation she had with the the dancer who came into the store: The woman told the guard she was driving down the street and heard people yelling racial slurs at a woman she had never met before, then, out of sympathy, she picked up the woman and brought her to the Kroger parking lot.

This contradicts the scenario that the two women were dancing together for lacrosse players earlier that night. ABC News has seen photos of both women dancing in the house at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd.


The security guard says on the recording that she wondered why the driver didn't take the alleged victim to the hospital or to the police station, both of which are closer to the scene of the party than the Kroger store. She mentions calling 911 and recalls that three officers arrived to the scene. Police documents verify that the 911 call took place at 1:22 am.

When the police came, the alleged victim was still in the car. They tried removing her from the sedan, but she resisted, gripping the brake shaft and holding on tight as they tried to pull her out.



The security guard left the scene as police were questioning the alleged victim. According to police affidavits, the woman told police while she was in the Kroger parking lot that she had been sexually assaulted at a party.



To date, the full context of the alleged victim's story is unknown. The prosecutor, Mike Nifong, believes a crime was committed.



At the end of the recording, the guard says that police had not returned to talk with her since the night of the incident.



A grand jury in Durham, N.C., will consider today whether there is probable cause that a crime took place. If 12 out of 18 grand jurors think there is, an indictment will be returned. The crimes in question include first-degree forcible rape, a class B1 felony.



ABC News has learned that the prosecutor has told defense attorneys the alleged victim has identified two lacrosse players from photos with 100 percent certainty and is 90 percent sure on a third.
-------------------------------------------

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCenter/story?id=1849938&page=1

[clutchy]

the word is that 2 indictments have come down...

elections 2 weeks away. lawyers say they will bring clients to court, DA says no we're going out and making arrests. ridiculous.


this case is so proposterous. I started out bad, now it's going to worse. This kind of pandering is just ridiculous... A good percentage of Durham is black, alleged raped woman: black. Lacrosse team: white - 1. Political game being played in order to curry favor with black vote: absurd.

[zenbooty]

So now a security guard is a forensic expert? How is he going to know if a girl had been raped?

As for her state of intoxcation, one theory put out is that she could have been slipped rohypnol or some other drug, hardly an unheard of thing at college parties these days, unfortunately. Now this isn't established fact, but it would explain much.

Fact is, we don't know just what happened. How bout we all just settle down, let the cops and lawyers and judges do their jobs, and we'll see what happens.

[Wizard]

the word is that 2 indictments have come down...

elections 2 weeks away. lawyers say they will bring clients to court, DA says no we're going out and making arrests. ridiculous.


this case is so proposterous. I started out bad, now it's going to worse. This kind of pandering is just ridiculous... A good percentage of Durham is black, alleged raped woman: black. Lacrosse team: white - 1. Political game being played in order to curry favor with black vote: absurd.

zomg you must be right, i mean who in their right mind would actually expect a DA to do his job and investigate a rape allegation?

comeon man, leave that kind of theorycraft for the far out wackos. yeah there's weird stuff going on, but it is the duty to find out what happened.

[cheapie]

man...i just don't know. i'll wait until all the evidence is in. i hope we find out if it's true or not. not like the whole kobe thing.

[clutchy]

zomg you must be right, i mean who in their right mind would actually expect a DA to do his job and investigate a rape allegation?

comeon man, leave that kind of theorycraft for the far out wackos. yeah there's weird stuff going on, but it is the duty to find out what happened.


i was just talking about the arrests. Of course i want to find out what's going on, but it's a DA's job to not indict unless he has a reasonable assurance that they'll get a conviction, and that the evidence is good.

today he went in and didn't even bring any exculpatory evidence, only brought in the one side. Now, i may be crazy but it's a DA's job to be fair and bring all the evidence to the grand jury not just stuff to start a trial. They're there to make some decisions, and he only gave them half of the story. He also has an obligation to the guys he's about to torch... I'd be pissed.

on the other side it's been theorized that the indictments are sealed because the lawyers are working out some kind of plea...

[Wizard]

i was just talking about the arrests. Of course i want to find out what's going on, but it's a DA's job to not indict unless he has a reasonable assurance that they'll get a conviction, and that the evidence is good.

today he went in and didn't even bring any exculpatory evidence, only brought in the one side. Now, i may be crazy but it's a DA's job to be fair and bring all the evidence to the grand jury not just stuff to start a trial. They're there to make some decisions, and he only gave them half of the story. He also has an obligation to the guys he's about to torch... I'd be pissed.

on the other side it's been theorized that the indictments are sealed because the lawyers are working out some kind of plea...

my understanding is that the indictments are sealed, ie not open to the public, so honestly you don't know. you're just going off of what the defense is saying which is a wee bit tailored towards making the defendants seem innocent.

all i know is that a young lady that strips for a living claims she was drugged and raped. also i know that no dna evidence was attributed to any of the defendants, so claims the defense lawyers. i'll just wait and see.

don't unjustly turn this into a race discussion, this is already the problem with this case. we don't have to go there though

[clutchy]

my understanding is that the indictments are sealed, ie not open to the public, so honestly you don't know. you're just going off of what the defense is saying which is a wee bit tailored towards making the defendants seem innocent.

all i know is that a young lady that strips for a living claims she was drugged and raped. also i know that no dna evidence was attributed to any of the defendants, so claims the defense lawyers. i'll just wait and see.

don't unjustly turn this into a race discussion, this is already the problem with this case. we don't have to go there though


uhhh, our whole system is tailored to give the defense the presumption of innocence...


unjustly? that's one of the major factor's. You know who's down there? Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton... This case is going to pivot solely on race. Hopefully some facts will be thrown in as well... prepare to witness the climate of victimization get hot!!

[Wizard]

my understanding is that the indictments are sealed, ie not open to the public, so honestly you don't know. you're just going off of what the defense is saying which is a wee bit tailored towards making the defendants seem innocent.

all i know is that a young lady that strips for a living claims she was drugged and raped. also i know that no dna evidence was attributed to any of the defendants, so claims the defense lawyers. i'll just wait and see.

don't unjustly turn this into a race discussion, this is already the problem with this case. we don't have to go there though

true it is innocent until proven guilty, but in rape cases it works differently. always has. realize she didn't accuse anyone directly, the da came up with that through investigation. protecting the victim is very important.

yes i know it's already been turned into a race thing, what i'm asking is that we (GA) as an unbiased group look past that.

[ialsohaveadream]

So now a security guard is a forensic expert? How is he going to know if a girl had been raped?
I was thinking the exact same thing. Did he watch an episode of CSI and suddenly become an expert analyst?

As for her state of intoxcation, one theory put out is that she could have been slipped rohypnol or some other drug, hardly an unheard of thing at college parties these days, unfortunately. Now this isn't established fact, but it would explain much.
Agreed again.

I'm still inclined to presume innocence of the lacrosse players, but we'll see.

[cheapie]

wasn't the security guard a she?


The security guard says she smelled alcohol on the driver, but not on the alleged victim. She says that the alleged victim "couldn't talk at all. … She was out of it."

[ialsohaveadream]

wasn't the security guard a she?
Hey look, nobody ever accused me of being a CSI. :)

[cheapie]

you knew it was going to happen

http://www.wral.com/news/8729102/detail.html

[faither]

all i know is that a young lady that strips for a living claims she was drugged and raped.

I'm not in Durham but this is the first I've heard of her being drugged by anyone (other than by herself -- possibly).

Asking folks to remain unbiased while injecting your own reality is pretty slick. :nono:

Why don't we just stick to the facts.



For my two cents, anyone who commits such an act should be punished. Clutchy's right, the stars are aligning in such a way that this can't help to have the deep stench of a political act. If so, the DA should be prosecuted.

And not for nothing, by it's been said for years and you needn't be a lawyer to understand that the way the grand jury system works, a DA could have a ham sandwich indicted. It's a one-sided argument.

[thresher]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5348321

[blueindian]

man, i'm sooooooooooooooo glad i don't work in durham anymore. i wouldn't want to be around this stuff all day.

[clutchy]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5348321


HAR!! it gets even better.

Ok, so DA gets elected to position last year. He's been working in DA's office for 30 YEARS!! before getting the top job.

and you think he's going to let some stupid little case stop him from continuing a job he worked for 30 YEARS to get. No sir.


He's going to try his hardest to make sure the black voters know he's doing everything he can... Does anyone know the percentage makeup of the town?

If i was black i'd be insulted, this guy is basically saying that just because this girl is black that they(black people) believe her story and want these guys prosecuted... solely based on race. I'm having a really hard time with this case... It's going to turn out very poorly for someone here.

hopefully it will give people some insight on how rape cases are handled and maybe people will realize that an accusation isn't an automatic conviction. I suppose we'll have to wait a year to find out... but in the meantime, alleged rape victim: gets free tuition/ Duke lacrosse players: season cancelled: indicted on rape charges... reputations destroyed, feel free to tack anything else on...

just seems a little unfair based almost completely on an accusation. I hope someone considered the presumption of innocence clause...

[Wizard]

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/425722.html

or you could consider that one of those accused is a bit more of a veteran with the law.

come on, please stop making this a political thing. you're excuse of "but they did it first" is lame and childish. Let's just argue the case itself.

My memory tells me that she did claim she was drugged, but somehow i can't find any article that says that now. It could be my memory isn't serving me as it should on this point.

[eSDee]

HAR!! it gets even better.

Ok, so DA gets elected to position last year. He's been working in DA's office for 30 YEARS!! before getting the top job.

and you think he's going to let some stupid little case stop him from continuing a job he worked for 30 YEARS to get. No sir.


He's going to try his hardest to make sure the black voters know he's doing everything he can... Does anyone know the percentage makeup of the town?

If i was black i'd be insulted, this guy is basically saying that just because this girl is black that they(black people) believe her story and want these guys prosecuted... solely based on race. I'm having a really hard time with this case... It's going to turn out very poorly for someone here.

hopefully it will give people some insight on how rape cases are handled and maybe people will realize that an accusation isn't an automatic conviction. I suppose we'll have to wait a year to find out... but in the meantime, alleged rape victim: gets free tuition/ Duke lacrosse players: season cancelled: indicted on rape charges... reputations destroyed, feel free to tack anything else on...

just seems a little unfair based almost completely on an accusation. I hope someone considered the presumption of innocence clause...

It seems like you are playing the race card more than anyone else clutchy. Aren't you interested in facts rather than conspiracy theories? If they are innocent then they'll hopefully be found innocent, at which point they can sue the hell out of everyone involved who slandered their names.

[cheapie]

i don't believe you can sue a prosecutor for arresting you unless there's clear evidence of gross negligence on his/her part.

with the story as sketchy as it seems, i'm hoping the prosecutor has his ducks in a row.

and the race card was whipped out right away. and jackson is making sure it stays out.

[clutchy]

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/425722.html

or you could consider that one of those accused is a bit more of a veteran with the law.

come on, please stop making this a political thing. you're excuse of "but they did it first" is lame and childish. Let's just argue the case itself.

My memory tells me that she did claim she was drugged, but somehow i can't find any article that says that now. It could be my memory isn't serving me as it should on this point.


I'm not going to get into a flame fest here with you J, but this case does have a political side. That's about all we know so far.

facts: woman "says" she was raped
lacrosse players deny it
security guard "says" she was falling down drunk and wouldn't get out of someone else's car.

that's all i know.

besides the political aspects...

[MikeD]

you knew it was going to happen

http://www.wral.com/news/8729102/detail.html

:heh:

I'm sure they had a hard time finding a better way to spend their $$$ than to fund a 27 year old stripper / mother of two. Nice job guys! :thumbup:

[clutchy]

It seems like you are playing the race card more than anyone else clutchy. Aren't you interested in facts rather than conspiracy theories? If they are innocent then they'll hopefully be found innocent, at which point they can sue the hell out of everyone involved who slandered their names.


When Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton show up, it stops being about facts and starts being about race. And while that may sound conspiratorial to you I assure you it's not, do some digging. Especially Rev. Jackson.

The problem here is you too aren't acknowledging the presumption of innocence. They are innocent right now, standing accused or otherwise they are still innocent.

When you're a DA it's not your "job" to get "convictions" your job to to apply the law equally and fairly to the satisfaction of both parties and the state. When all you look for is convictions that's all you're going to get and that sure isn't equitable or fair.

[DarkFury]

Hey... lets leave the politics out of this... or else the thread might get closed due to your political arguing.

We already know that Apex and company DON'T have a problem with doing that if it gets out of control.

Only time, witnessess, and evidence (or lack of) will tell who is right and wrong in this case. No need to sling the political mud in this thread yet (so put your bait buckets away... Mmmmkay... :2far: )

[cheapie]

exactly why i just provided the link and tried to limit my comments. ;)

[blueindian]

HAR!! it gets even better.

Ok, so DA gets elected to position last year. He's been working in DA's office for 30 YEARS!! before getting the top job.

and you think he's going to let some stupid little case stop him from continuing a job he worked for 30 YEARS to get. No sir.


He's going to try his hardest to make sure the black voters know he's doing everything he can... Does anyone know the percentage makeup of the town?



depending on where you look, the town is roughly 90% black and white split up roughly 45-45.

[ufcrusher]

DA's have a duty to release all exculpatory evidence and cannot allow their own personal aspirations and views to interfere with the pursuit for justice. The main problem here, and what has so many people upset, is the fact that the DNA evidence supposedly excludes all of the Lax players. Yet the DA has stated that he believes cases are more than just the sum of the evidence....that he has won plenty of cases without DNA evidence and he doesnt need it in this case.

Obviously, if you have a direct DNA sample from a woman and it doesnt match your suspects....you have a problem. I am sure he is rationalizing it by saying they wore a condom and were careful, which is why there is no proof. He figures that if he presents A, B, and D, people might overlook the fact that C points to someone else. Without knowing what substances were present in the samples (such as evidnece of latex or lubricant) or what other evidence he thinks he has, I cant really say whether he is just being ridiculously naive or pandering for re-election.

From what I have read about his background...he took over the position for someone else when they were promoted. He did not get voted into the position but rather took it in a temporary situation. However, he has an upcoming election where he will either get removed or officially get the position. As such, there is speculation that he is trying to show a tough stance on everyone to prove he is the right man for the job. His statements that he will do what he thinks is right even if it is not popular seem to be a double edged sword to me.

[cheapie]

you know that's how it works in CA and now FL, but are you really qualified to comment on NC? ;)

[welfareloser]

When Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton show up, it stops being about facts and starts being about race. And while that may sound conspiratorial to you I assure you it's not, do some digging. Especially Rev. Jackson..


we know they are political, and that it is likely a political issue in their minds. what you're not acknowledging is that it isn't political or racial in the mind of anyone here, except you.


The problem here is you too aren't acknowledging the presumption of innocence. They are innocent right now, standing accused or otherwise they are still innocent.

who isn't acknowledging that? they will be treated as innocent men until proven guilty... that doesn't mean that we, who have very little in the way of facts, know for sure that they are, in fact, innocent. lots of things smell fishy, none of them add up to proof that the women are lying. can you acknowledge that?


When you're a DA it's not your "job" to get "convictions" your job to to apply the law equally and fairly to the satisfaction of both parties and the state. When all you look for is convictions that's all you're going to get and that sure isn't equitable or fair.

mmmkay. show me where the da is applying the law improperly. he's applying it properly. there are sides. he's on one side. there's another guy on the other side. they will work against each other til a winner (or a draw) is declared. for better or worse, that's how we work things out. he's doing his job.

[cheapie]

Figgits!!!

[InfiniteNothing]

you know that's how it works in CA and now FL, but are you really qualified to comment on NC? ;)LOL!

[blueindian]

we know they are political, and that it is likely a political issue in their minds. what you're not acknowledging is that it isn't political or racial in the mind of anyone here, except you.

it's durham. everything is racial in durham. although it's not discuss openly (this is the new south, after all) the racial divide in durham is rather sizable.

[clutchy]

we know they are political, and that it is likely a political issue in their minds. what you're not acknowledging is that it isn't political or racial in the mind of anyone here, except you..

Well that's possible, but i doubt it.


who isn't acknowledging that? they will be treated as innocent men until proven guilty... that doesn't mean that we, who have very little in the way of facts, know for sure that they are, in fact, innocent. lots of things smell fishy, none of them add up to proof that the women are lying. can you acknowledge that?

the way people word their responses is key, go back and read them. I know their innocent until proven guilty and that's the way it stands with me. I can acknowledge that the women very well could be telling the truth, but i don't care if they are or not, they have to prove that they aren't. Not the other way around. It doesn't matter if the men are innocent, whether accused or not, they are until proven guilty.


mmmkay. show me where the da is applying the law improperly. he's applying it properly. there are sides. he's on one side. there's another guy on the other side. they will work against each other til a winner (or a draw) is declared. for better or worse, that's how we work things out. he's doing his job.

did you miss the lawyers missive above(ufcrusher)? This isn't about sides here, it's about equitable treatment under the law, the DA has this responsibility, not defense lawyers or prosecution. The DA shoulders this responsibility, and he was negligent to only present one side of the case.

[Wizard]

Duke lacrosse case: No DNA, but old-fashioned sleuthing (http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0419/p02s01-usju.html)

By Patrik Jonsson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

ATLANTA – For days after charges of alleged sexual assault were leveled at Duke University lacrosse players, their supporters pointed to the lack of DNA evidence as a sign that the case would probably be dismissed.

Instead, a 23-member grand jury in Durham, N.C., on Monday indicted two players on rape charges. The players, Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty, both 20, were arrested early Tuesday morning.
Some of the key evidence? A set of plastic fingernails the alleged victim said she lost when she was assaulted.

The case has stirred passions locally because of differences of class and race - the accused are white college students, the accuser is a 27-year-old black exotic dancer. But it is also becoming a public gauge of just how important - or unimportant - DNA evidence really is.

Tests that pinpoint humans' unique genetic fingerprints are often overplayed as a forensic tool, experts say. Especially in violent crimes, old-fashioned gumshoe investigations, convincing witnesses, and believable testimony still rule the jury room, they add.

"Certainly this tale that juries are a lot stricter in terms of the kind of evidence they demand before they convict sounds good, but I'm not sure there's any hard proof of that," says Northeastern University criminologist James Alan Fox, author of "Killer on Campus."

Noting that nurses found evidence that the woman was sexually assaulted, "there is lots of physical evidence in this case, but the question now becomes tying it to those particular [men]," he says.

Two-thirds of homicides are solved without DNA evidence, Mr. Fox says. A similar percentage of rape cases also go forward without DNA evidence, said Durham district attorney Mike Nifong.

Since its use as forensic evidence began two decades ago, DNA tests have been crucial in proving both guilt and innocence in hundreds, if not thousands, of cases.

But even without such evidence, one criminologist says getting the case to a jury is the best way for Mr. Nifong, who is up for re-election in May, to take the pressure off himself.

Grand juries are "a prosecutor's playpen" as 97 percent of cases result in indictments, says Mike Adams, a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina-Wilmington.

"Racial tensions in Durham are so intense that I do believe [Mr. Nifong] is under strong pressure to move forward with the case," he says.

Indeed, with more than a month having passed since the alleged attack, forensic science is competing with politics in Durham, where the jury will be drawn.

The case touched off vigils, protests and even threats as it laid bare issues of race, class, and power around an elite, mostly white school set in the middle of mostly poor, black neighborhoods.

To many, the dancer's broken fake fingernails were in fact evidence that something untoward happened - even though they didn't yield any hard DNA evidence.

Even with indictments and arrests in the case, tensions don't seem to be abating - one reason both white and black city leaders put an ad in the local paper proclaiming unity in the wake of the prosecution.

"Durham is a very divided city, and something like this, especially in an election year, can really work in strange ways," says Bill Massengale, a defense lawyer in nearby Chapel Hill, N.C. "But I hadn't realized that things were going to fracture so badly so quickly."

Dang it Clutchy, why do you keep assuming there is no evidence? Please consider how extremely detrimental to his career it would be if the DA pushed an unfounded case for political reasons. It is my humble opinion that he has much more to lose with this case than to win.

Christian Science Monitor to the rescue again. I need to subscribe to this.



the way people word their responses is key, go back and read them. I know their innocent until proven guilty and that's the way it stands with me. I can acknowledge that the women very well could be telling the truth, but i don't care if they are or not, they have to prove that they aren't. Not the other way around. It doesn't matter if the men are innocent, whether accused or not, they are until proven guilty.


You do realize that all the past statements you made sure don't make it look like you're a benevolent protector of the innocent. You started your first post in this thread by denouncing people pulling the Race Card. Then you spent each and every post trying to say this case is baseless because the race card was pulled. I love you man, slow down and think for a second though. Like you've claimed about Sharpton and Jackson, their past and statements change the validity of their opinions. You're statements in this thread do the same.

[zenbooty]

The DA shoulders this responsibility, and he was negligent to only present one side of the case.
How do you know what he presented? Were you in on the grand jury testimony that led to that jury passing the indictments?

[clutchy]

How do you know what he presented? Were you in on the grand jury testimony that led to that jury passing the indictments?

i watched the news and they said he specifically left out evidence that would make his case weaker. Such as pictures showing bruises previously inflicted. There was something else as well. the guy is just being a little one sided, and I think it's because of politics, that's my whole argument.

[kgsilvas]

DURHAM, N.C. - Two Duke University lacrosse players were arrested on rape charges Tuesday in a scandal that has rocked one of America's elite campuses and raised explosive questions of race, class and the privileged status of college athletes.

The two players — both graduates of Northern prep schools — were promptly booked and released on bail. District Attorney Mike Nifong said a third player could also be arrested but has yet to be firmly identified.

"It is important that we not only bring the assailants to justice, but also that we lift the cloud of suspicion from those team members who were not involved in the assault," Nifong said.

Lawyers for the two men bitterly assailed the district attorney for bringing the charges. Other attorneys for Duke's lacrosse players said the two were not even present at the time the rape is alleged to have occurred.

Reade Seligmann, 20, of Essex Fells, N.J., and Collin Finnerty, 19, of Garden City, N.Y., are accused of attacking a stripper at a team party at an off-campus house on the night of March 13. They were charged with first-degree rape, sexual offense and kidnapping and were released on $400,000 bail each.

The district attorney would not say what evidence led to the charges. But Seligmann's attorney, Kirk Osborn, said: "Apparently it was a photographic identification. And we all know how reliable that is."

Seligmann is "absolutely innocent," Osborn said. "He's doing great." Finnerty's attorney, Bill Cotter, said: "The next jury will hear the entire story, which includes our evidence, and we're confident that these young men will be found to be innocent."

The case has raised racial tensions and heightened the long-standing town-vs.-gown antagonism between Duke students and middle class, racially mixed Durham. The accuser is black, and all but one of the 47 lacrosse team members are white.

Well before the scandal, the nationally ranked team had a reputation for a swaggering sense of entitlement and boorish frat-boy behavior that included public intoxication and public urination. After the scandal broke, the university announced an investigation into whether it put up with such behavior for too long.

The case has led to the resignation of the coach and the cancellation of the rest of the season.

"Many lives have been touched by this case," said Duke President Richard Brodhead in a statement. "It has brought pain and suffering to all involved, and it deeply challenges our ability to balance judgment with compassion. As the legal process unfolds, we must hope that it brings a speedy resolution and that the truth of the events is fully clarified."

The university would not comment specifically on any disciplinary action taken against the two men but said it is Duke practice to suspend students charged with a felony.

Both players are products of wealthy New York City suburbs and all-male Roman Catholic prep schools. Finnerty attended Long Island's Chaminade High School, where 99 percent of the students go on to college. Seligmann went to the exclusive Delbarton School, a lacrosse powerhouse in Morristown, N.J.

"It is our hope and our conviction that the full truth of all that happened that night will vindicate Reade of these charges," Delbarton's headmaster, the Rev. Luke L. Travers, said in a statement.

Neither Seligmann and Finnerty was among the Duke team members arrested in recent years for such offenses as underage drinking and public urination.

Finnerty, however, was charged in Washington with assault after a man told police in November that Finnerty and two friends punched him and called him "gay and other derogatory names." Finnerty agreed to community service.

Seligmann, a 6-foot-1 sophomore, and Finnerty, a 6-foot-3 sophomore, were in handcuffs when they stepped out of a police cruiser at the Durham County Jail early Tuesday. Their early-morning surrenders were arranged as part of a deal with Nifong in which they were bailed out of jail in a matter of hours.

At a brief court appearance, Finnerty stood in jacket and tie as a May 15 date was set for the next hearing in the case. Seligmann waived his right to appear in court and was represented by one of his lawyers.

The district attorney has said that the woman making the allegations, a 27-year-old student and mother of two, was attacked by three men. In a statement, Nifong said he hopes to charge a third person, "but the evidence available to me at this time does not permit that. Investigation into the identity of the third assailant will continue in the hope that he can also be identified with certainty."

Attorneys for the players have demanded Nifong drop the investigation, arguing that DNA tests failed to connect any of the team members to the alleged rape. They have also charged that the accuser was intoxicated and injured when she showed up for the party.

"This is probably the worst miscarriage of justice I've seen in 34 years of practice," said another Seligmann lawyer, Julian Mack.

Bill Thomas, a lawyer for a player who has not been charged, said that one of the two men under indictment did not even attend the party. He would specify which one, saying only that "multiple witnesses and a commercial transaction" would provide an alibi.

According to a filing made by the district attorney's office, the residents of the house where the party took place told police that Seligmann was one of six players who did not attend the party.

Another attorney, Robert Ekstrand, who represents dozens of players, said neither Seligmann nor Finnerty was at the party "at the relevant time."

The indictment represents "a horrible circumstance and a product of a rush to judgment," Ekstrand said.
______
AP National Writer Allen G. Breed in Raleigh, AP Sports Writer Aaron Beard in Durham, and Associated Press Writer Frank Eltman in Garden City, N.Y., contributed to this report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060418/ap_on_sp_co_ne/duke_lacrosse;_ylt=ArnMcEGY8fjKBMY9thbz3uus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cm82NXAwBHNlYwM3NTU-).
Looks like those indictments have resulted in arrests.

[clutchy]

Dang it Clutchy, why do you keep assuming there is no evidence? Please consider how extremely detrimental to his career it would be if the DA pushed an unfounded case for political reasons. It is my humble opinion that he has much more to lose with this case than to win.

I'm not saying the case is unfounded, the only evidence i've seen is circumstantial and proceeding on that basis would be extremely detrimental to the guys involved. I just hope he's being responsible about it, and I also hope he's not partially motivated by political reasons.


You do realize that all the past statements you made sure don't make it look like you're a benevolent protector of the innocent. You started your first post in this thread by denouncing people pulling the Race Card. Then you spent each and every post trying to say this case is baseless because the race card was pulled. I love you man, slow down and think for a second though. Like you've claimed about Sharpton and Jackson, their past and statements change the validity of their opinions. You're statements in this thread do the same.

My whole argument rests on the basis that i think this is being pursued more aggressively than it should be given the stated evidence. I also think race and politics are playing a large role. I hope they aren't but it's very hard to ignore the previously stated factors.

Sharpton and Jackson are not valid. Why did they show up? well because alleged raped woman was black, and her alleged rapists were white.

[Wizard]

You are absolutely wrong. ALL rape cases MUST be pursued aggressively. It is one of the most foul crimes that can be committed.

All rape cases are pursued this aggressively. There is honestly nothing different. The only thing is we're hearing a ton about it because it has unique circumstances. Look at the procedure, a case was reported to the DA. The DA investigated it. Following the investigation it was presented to a Grand Jury. The Grand Jury felt there was sufficient compeling evidence to pursue a case. Indictments were issued.

Like I've been trying to say, ignore the fools screaming loud about race in the case. It's a Rape case and should be, as well as is, being treated as such.

[ufcrusher]

There is a problem when it appears that the police are ignoring facts. If we believe what is being stated is true, then one of the suspects arrested was not even there and has alibi evidence to prove it. I doubt that they would make such a definitive statement if there wasnt something to back it up.

Even those people who are screaming that this is how it is done, has to realize that the police usually investigate alibi's prior to arrest and if they did and the alibi was found to be false, no one would try to raise it.

[ialsohaveadream]

If i was black i'd be insulted, this guy is basically saying that just because this girl is black that they(black people) believe her story and want these guys prosecuted... solely based on race. I'm having a really hard time with this case... It's going to turn out very poorly for someone here.
How is it that you're able to read the thoughts and motivations of the DA so well, yet when people made accusations about Bush's intent, you would defend him so vigorously?

[clutchy]

You are absolutely wrong. ALL rape cases MUST be pursued aggressively. It is one of the most foul crimes that can be committed.



aggressively sure, but unabashadly ignoring evidence? You don't pursue cases to the detriment of the "alleged" defending parties because of the word of a drunken stripper. You don't ignore alibi's just to get the televised arrests. This whole thing is about grandstanding and race and that's what pisses me off. Having the suspects arrested, cuffed and brought in, when they voluntarily said they would come in. It just stinks of grandstanding.

[clutchy]

How is it that you're able to read the thoughts and motivations of the DA so well, yet when people made accusations about Bush's intent, you would defend him so vigorously?

because i defend people who i think are in the right and i condemn those who i think are in the wrong.

Listen i'm an astute observer of human behavior, it's what i'm trained in. It's pretty easy to pick up on motivational forces(demand characteristics) and then see people following through on them. It's pretty easy to sit back here on our little computers and click clack away, but this guy has JJ and AS screaming about race and rape and all kinds of other political grandstanding tactics in this small little town... It must be hard for him and he's trying to cater to his voting block... The DA isn't on trial, he has a reasonable duty to be fair and impartial to the satisfaction of both parties and the state. I don't think he's done that. It's probably not entirely his fault, when you have big names breathing down your neck that hold MASSIVE sway with your voting block, then you're going to be more inclined to "aggressively pursue" a case. I think that's what is happening here.

It makes sense to me... and why are you guys not responding to ufcrusher? He's the one with a good deal of expertise on this subject...

[ialsohaveadream]

because i defend people who i think are in the right and i condemn those who i think are in the wrong.

Listen i'm an astute observer of human behavior, it's what i'm trained in. It's pretty easy to pick up on motivational forces(demand characteristics) and then see people following through on them.
And as a student of psychology, you should know about characteristics like mob mentality and the bystander effect, either of which could have taken place on that night and caused normally unthinkable behavior by a bunch of lacrosse players.

And as someone who might've seen an episode of Law & Order at some point, you should know that a time-stamped cell phone picture might not be the strongest supporting evidence.

Again, I think the Duke kids are probably innocent, but I don't think you can judge the DA's motivation. It's very possible that he honestly believes the victim, and that he's seen evidence that supports her claim. It's also possible that he's doing this for publicity and to gain political clout. You don't know enough about the DA to make that call.

[Wizard]

aggressively sure, but unabashadly ignoring evidence? You don't pursue cases to the detriment of the "alleged" defending parties because of the word of a drunken stripper. You don't ignore alibi's just to get the televised arrests. This whole thing is about grandstanding and race and that's what pisses me off. Having the suspects arrested, cuffed and brought in, when they voluntarily said they would come in. It just stinks of grandstanding.

I believe that if you are unable to remove the race issue, that we ALL agree is reducing likelihood of fairness on either side (defendants or plaintiff), then it is obvious you will only look at those items.

Now if for a second you can remove those issues. It is my humble opinion that there must be some basis for a case, and since there is at least some basis for a case there is a need to pursue the investigation to the fullest.

[clutchy]

And as a student of psychology, you should know about characteristics like mob mentality and the bystander effect, either of which could have taken place on that night and caused normally unthinkable behavior by a bunch of lacrosse players.

sure it's all possible, but I'm not really interested in these guys until their trial. They're innocent for all intents and purposes and i'm not willing to consider otherwise at the moment.


You don't know enough about the DA to make that call.

and yet i did. :pfft: :shifty:


I believe that if you are unable to remove the race issue, that we ALL agree is reducing likelihood of fairness on either side (defendants or plaintiff), then it is obvious you will only look at those items.

Now if for a second you can remove those issues. It is my humble opinion that there must be some basis for a case, and since there is at least some basis for a case there is a need to pursue the investigation to the fullest.


sure. that's reasonable.

[MikeD]

Like I've been trying to say, ignore the fools screaming loud about race in the case. It's a Rape case and should be, as well as is, being treated as such.

Yeah, and make sure that we realize that both sides are. Would Jesse be running fast to NC to help out a white girl in the same situation? I think we know the answer to that one.

It's been about race since Day One. White players, only one black player, black stripper. The racial makeup of Durham.

Let's be real: the people questioning the validity of the girl's claims weren't the ones bringing race to the table. There were other parties all too happy to start banging the drum.

[blueindian]

.

The case has stirred passions locally because of differences of class and race - the accused are white college students, the accuser is a 27-year-old black exotic dancer. But it is also becoming a public gauge of just how important - or unimportant - DNA evidence really is.


see, this is the thing about this case that is pissing me off. and this is why i say that in durham, it's all about race. you'll note that according to the CSM, the white boys are "college students" while the black chick is merely an "exotic dancer".

race is an issue in this case. those that say it isn't may as well bury their head in the sand. race is everywhere in durham. if i may be so bold as to generalize, durham is full of white folks who pretend to like black folk that they really can't stand and durham is full of black folk that don't care too much for the white folk around.

[cheapie]

i watched the news and they said he specifically left out evidence that would make his case weaker. Such as pictures showing bruises previously inflicted. There was something else as well. the guy is just being a little one sided, and I think it's because of politics, that's my whole argument.


he's a prosecutor. they aren't required to talk about the weak points. that's up to the defense att.

[clutchy]

he's a prosecutor. they aren't required to talk about the weak points. that's up to the defense att.


I know in NC, they don't have to bring in any exculpatory evidence before the grand jury... you're right, but i still think it's ridiculous.

[faither]

Eyewitness News Looks at Party Photos By Steve Daniels


(04/18/06 -- DURHAM) - Eyewitness News and the ABC News law-and-justice unit are getting a chance to examine time-stamped photos taken inside the home on the night of the controversial Duke lacrosse party.

-----------------------------------------------------------
The photos are believed to be authentic and taken by one of the students at the March 13 party. The time stamps on the photos appear to be accurate. Pictures of a wristwatch magnified for clarity correspond with the time on the photos. The players are sitting on three couches in a semicircle with the dancers in the middle.

11:02 p.m.: The first picture shows at least 10 students hanging out in a living room, apparently waiting for the dancers to arrive. Most of the students appear to be drinking. By the number of people in this photo, it appears only a fraction of the 47 lacrosse team members are there.

12 a.m.: This is the first picture of the strippers. Students are watching the show, but not grabbing or attempting to touch the women. Bruises are clearly visible on the legs and thighs of the alleged victim.

12:00:40 a.m.: Another picture taken 40 seconds later shows bruises on the accuser's knees. Her right knee appears to have an open cut.

12:03:57 a.m.: About four minutes after arriving, a picture shows the strippers leaving the room. The photo clearly shows that the alleged victim left behind one of her shoes.

Between 12:10 a.m. and 12:30 a.m.: No photos were taken between this time.

12:30:12 a.m.: The next photo shows the alleged victim on the back porch, carrying what appears to be her purse and a makeup bag. Her clothes are intact.

12:30:47 a.m.: A photo taken 30 seconds later shows the alleged victim on the porch and she appears to smile.

12:31:26 a.m.: But 30 seconds after that, a photo shows the alleged victim stumbling down the back steps of the house.

12:37:58 a.m.: A series of photos are taken, all showing the woman lying on her left side on the back porch, seemingly passed out or asleep. She had visible cuts on her legs and buttocks that did not appear in the previous photos.

The cuts may be from falling. The cuts on her buttocks line up with the edge of a screen door she may have hit on the way down.

12:41 a.m.: The final photo shows the accuser and the second dancer in a black car. The accuser is in the passengers seat.

Many of the photos taken on the back porch show pink splotches, which the defense says is undried nail polish. They claim the accuser was polishing her nails in the bathroom between 12:10 a.m. and 12:30 a.m. - - not being raped.


http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4091290

[cheapie]

interesting article on SI.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/lester_munson/04/19/duke.lax/index.html


We caught up with Sports Illustrated legal expert Lester Munson, who is closely following the case involving members of the Duke lacrosse team. On Tuesday, two players were arrested and charged with the rape and kidnapping of a stripper at a party in March. We asked Munson about some of the evidence against the players and how the case will shake out.

SI.com: A report has surfaced that one of the players charged, Reade Seligmann, has an alibi -- including ATM receipts, a statement from a cab driver and evidence he was at his dormitory -- indicating he had left the party before the alleged incident happened. Is this credible evidence?

Munson: It's potentially credible and can be proof of his innocence. But we should remember that the presentation of an alibi can be tricky and dangerous. The police and the prosecutor will scrutinize this evidence in exquisite detail, and if they find something is askew, that something doesn't fit in the alibi evidence, they will not hesitate to charge Seligmann with yet another crime. That would be obstruction of justice. The defense lawyers know they must be very careful in the presentation of an alibi. The disclosure of this evidence so quickly after Seligmann's arrest indicates we must be very careful and slow to evaluate it and its credibility. You don't see many alibis in criminal cases -- it's a very rare thing. Ordinarily, 99 times out of 100, the police have the right guy, and you'll find that most people arrested were involved in something. Getting the wrong guy is very unusual.

SI.com: The other player arrested, Collin Finnerty, was charged with assault for an incident in Washington, D.C., last November and got off with community service. Will this come into play in this case?

Munson: It'll work against him in D.C., where he is no longer eligible for diversion and may now face trial for that assault case. The whole theory is that when you reach a deal with a judge, you must behave yourself. When you don't, you find yourself in double the trouble. The court system gave Finnerty a break, and judges and prosecutors tend to be unforgiving. In the Durham case, that first assault would come into play if he is convicted, and it would be used to extend his sentence for previous predatory behavior. You wouldn't want to be either one of these guys right now.

SI.com: District Attorney Mike Nifong claims he has a third suspect, another team member. What do you know about him?

Munson: We know nothing at the moment. The question we must ask is whether this third player is in the process of negotiating with the prosecutor and is seeking immunity from prosecution or is seeking leniency for his testimony against the other players. Has the prosecution succeeded in driving a wedge into the veneer of solidarity the team has presented so far?

SI.com: Nifong is up for reelection next month. Do you think this has played a role in the case?

Munson: I believe his candidacy is playing a major role in the timing of the charges. He could not go through the election process without having made at least some of the decisions that must be made in this investigation. We have had instances of prosecutors using sports figures for political advancement in the past. In the rape case against former Green Bay Packers tight end Mark Chmura in 2001, the prosecutor, Paul Bucher, charged Chmura with rape and other serious crimes even though Bucher had no evidence. It was clear he wanted to run for statewide office in Wisconsin. The ploy did not work -- Chmura was found not guilty after a trial that was humiliating for Bucher, who had to postpone his political ambitions. He's actually running for attorney general this year. But the political dimension of the Durham situation is very important and it must be recognized.

SI.com: Investigators found no DNA evidence. What does that mean for prosecution's case?

Munson: Its absence is not important. There are hundreds of men in penitentiaries across the United States who were convicted of rape without their DNA being found on the victim. It does help the defense to some extent, but it's not conclusive. The whole idea that DNA evidence was somehow conclusive was the invention of the defense lawyers. Its absence hasn't stopped the grand jury from charging these guys.

SI.com: The grand jury sealed the indictments the night before it announced the charges the next morning. What's the point of sitting on the charges?

Munson: For the sole purpose of humiliating the two boys, of getting them on video in handcuffs. The prosecutor wanted to have what we call a perp walk -- them in handcuffs in front of television crews. It's a fairly common practice in high-profile cases. Take these huge financial cases, for example, like the Enron and Tyco trials: A guy like former Enron CEO Jeff Skilling is worth hundreds of millions; everyone knows he'd be out on bail, but they still needed to go get him at 5 a.m. It's a common practice for prosecutors entering into a situation that makes for good TV. Here, I think Nifong wanted to show he was arresting somebody.

SI.com: Will this case go to trial?

Munson: Yes, probably in February or March 2007. There won't be a settlement. When you're talking about an alibi, you don't have much leeway to negotiate out of case -- 95 percent of criminal cases are negotiated, but this isn't one of those cases. These guys come from wealthy families and have the money to fight it.

[clutchy]

interesting read.


Ok, so i've been watching a little more of the news and i guess that according to the medical report this woman was sexually abused. So I guess something did happen, although i've heard conflicting points about that.

so if something happened, but there isn't any DNA at all and no traces of latex or anything then what happened? I think they abused her with something... maybe a broomstick or something to that effect.

regardless of what happens, i can't imagine them getting a conviction of any sort on this. The one guy's alibi is tightening up, and as that happens the credibility of the alleged victim goes down. I can't really see anything coming out of this case...

Anyone else?

[dougadam]

The last I heard there is no dna evidence. Which with a gang bang you would think there would something .

[clutchy]

The last I heard there is no dna evidence. Which with a gang bang you would think there would something .


you'd think so, but the thing that bothers me the most about this whole thing is that medical report. I haven't personally seen it, but it points out that she had injuries consistent with forced sexual abuse. That's not good.

now if we put that together with the bruises she came in with, is it possible that it was an old injury? I don't know... this whole lack of DNA(after alleged rape) is kinda weirding me out...

[MikeD]

Interesting read. The article is (IMO) a bit pro-stripper / anti-lacrosse, but a good read nonetheless.

From Newsweek.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12442765/site/newsweek/

[g1984]

The second stripper was interviewed, and it sure seems to be about the money.

ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2416623)

Roberts, like the accuser a divorced single mother who is black, took umbrage at the notion that she should not try to make something out of her experience. She's worried that once her name and criminal record are public, no one will want to hire her.

"Why shouldn't I profit from it?" she asked. "I didn't ask to be in this position ... I would like to feed my daughter."

And now changes her story.

At first, an exotic dancer who performed at a Duke University lacrosse team party doubted the story of a colleague who told police she was dragged into a bathroom and raped.

Now, Kim Roberts isn't so sure.

"I was not in the bathroom when it happened, so I can't say a rape occurred -- and I never will," Roberts told The Associated Press on Thursday in her first on-the-record interview.

After watching defense attorneys release photos of the accuser, and upset by the leaking of both dancers' criminal pasts, she said she has to "wonder about their character."

"In all honesty, I think they're guilty," she said. "And I can't say which ones are guilty ... but somebody did something besides underage drinking. That's my honest-to-God impression."

I think the DA is so desperate to find "something" so he wouldn't look like a dumb*ss. But then again, he already is.

[nickel]

sure, we need to investigate this just like Tawana Brawley's allegation was investigated, but just the same this whole story smells fishy and concocted.

hells, one of the guys she finger pointed has alibis up the ying yang to support that he WASN'T EVEN THERE when the alleged gang rape occurred.
i feel bad for these guys if they are innocent for it seems they have had their faces, names, and addresses plastered all over as if they have no rights at all.

[MikeD]

Man, this girl sure has some bad luck. Gang raped twice in 14 years?

Amazing how her own father can forget what happened to his own daughter :eek3:, and then say that he didn't even think anything happened.


DURHAM, N.C. -- A jury might never hear about the rape allegations made to police 10 years ago by the exotic dancer who says she was raped last month by three Duke University lacrosse players, a prosecutor said Friday.

District Attorney Mike Nifong said North Carolina's rape shield law lists "narrowly defined categories" under which evidence of an accuser's past sexual history is allowed as evidence. The court must hold a hearing to determine if the evidence meets those categories and to decide how it can be presented.

"In short, the jury that decides this case may or may not hear the 'evidence,"' Nifong said.

"The media are not bound by the same rules that govern our courts," he said. "Their decisions on what to report and how they report it [can] have a substantial impact on the ability of our system to effectuate justice. That impact is often positive. Unfortunately, it can also be negative."

In the 1996 report, the woman claims she was raped and beaten by three men when she was 14 years old. Authorities said none of the men named in the report was ever charged with sexual assault in nearby Granville County, where the woman said she was attacked.

Nifong's office contacted Creedmoor police Friday morning, seeking information about the incident report, said Mayor Darryl Moss. He and police Chief Ted Pollard said officials there are continuing to look for additional records, but have so far been unable to locate any other paperwork.

Relatives told Essence magazine in an online story this week that the woman declined to pursue the case out of fear for her safety.

A phone number for the accuser has been disconnected, and her father said Thursday night he remembered little about the incident except going with police to a home where he said his daughter was being held "against her will."

The existence of the earlier rape report surprised defense attorneys in the Duke case, who have sought information about the woman's past for use in attacking her credibility.

"That's the very first I've heard of that," said Bill Cotter, the attorney for indicted lacrosse player Collin Finnerty. He declined additional comment.

Finnerty and fellow Duke player Reade Seligmann are charged with first-degree rape, kidnapping and sexual assault and face a hearing May 15.

The accuser is a 27-year-old student at North Carolina Central University in Durham who told police she was hired to dance at a March 13 party.

Seligmann's legal team earlier this week filed a motion seeking her medical, legal and education records. The lawyers also asked for a pretrial hearing to determine if she is credible.

On Friday, Cotter filed a motion seeking all material related to the case, including witness and defendant statements, tests and examination results, investigators' notes and any potentially exculpatory evidence.

According to the Creedmoor police report in August 1996, when the woman was 18, she told officers she was raped and beaten by three men "for a continual time" in 1993. She told police she was attacked at an "unspecified location" on a street in Creedmoor, a town 15 miles northeast of Durham.

Asked Thursday if she was sexually assaulted, her father said, "I can't remember." In an interview with the News & Observer of Raleigh, posted Thursday night on the newspaper's Web site, he said the men "didn't do anything to her."

The report lists the names of the three men, but no other details.
Durham police Officer Brian Bishop, who interviewed the accuser in 1996 while working on the Creedmoor force, said Thursday he had a vague recollection of the report. He said he could not remember any details. Reached Friday, Bishop said he could no longer discuss the case.

Before Seligmann and Finnerty were indicted, attorneys for the players pointed to the accuser's criminal history when answering questions about their clients' legal troubles. The woman pleaded guilty to several misdemeanors in 2002.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2424601

[MikeD]

Nice how this case has unfolded.

Those guys had their names dragged through the mud...yet it looks like nothing truly happened. Too bad their names and faces will be remembered moving forward. If only the two strippers were so lucky. :disa:


In June, a second exotic dancer in the Duke University sexual assault case called the accuser's allegations a "crock." Now, she's going into detail.

In an interview set to air Sunday on "60 Minutes," Kim Roberts, who danced at the same party where the sexual assault allegedly took place and who goes by the stage name Nikki, directly contradicts a statement the accuser gave police.

"In the police statement, [the accuser] describes the rape in this way: 'Three guys grabbed Nikki.' That's you," correspondent Ed Bradley asked Roberts. "'Brett, Adam and Matt grabbed me. They separated us at the master bedroom door while we tried to hold on to each other. Bret, Adam and Matt took me into the bathroom.' Were you holding on to each other? Were you pulled apart?"

"Nope," Roberts replied, who added that she was hearing that account of events for the first time.

Roberts also denied that she had tried to help dress the accuser after the assault and said, "She obviously wasn't hurt ... because she was fine."

On June 8, lawyers for Reade Seligmann, 20, one of three team members charged in the case, filed court papers citing a statement from Roberts calling the accuser's allegations a "crock."

According to a March 20 statement written by a Durham police investigator, Roberts "stated that she heard that [the accuser] was sexually assaulted, which she stated is a 'crock' and she stated that she was with her the whole time until she left."

The defense lawyers argued that prosecutors omitted that statement when they got court permission in March to obtain photographs and DNA samples from team members.

Both women had been hired to perform at the party as exotic dancers.

In an April interview with The Associated Press, Roberts said she initially doubted the accuser's story but had changed her mind.

"I was not in the bathroom when it happened, so I can't say a rape occurred -- and I never will," Roberts said. But she added, "In all honesty, I think they're guilty."

The accuser has told police she was dragged into a bathroom and sexually assaulted, beaten and choked for a half-hour.

Also included in the June 8 filing were 23 pages of sealed medical records regarding a medical examination of the accuser. In their filing, defense lawyers said the examination showed only a small scratch on the accuser's knee, a cut on her heel and vaginal swelling.

The lawyers also said the accuser told a nurse who examined her that she was not choked and that no condoms were used by her attackers. Defense attorneys have said that DNA tests showed material recovered from the victim matched a single male source who was not a member of the lacrosse team.

Seligmann, of Essex Fells, N.J., and two other players -- Dave Evans, 23, of Bethesda, Md., and Collin Finnerty, 19, of Garden City, N.Y. -- have been charged with first-degree rape, sexual offense and kidnapping in the case.

The three men are free on $400,000 bail each. Their trial could begin in spring 2007.

Defense attorneys have said they believe Roberts changed her story to gain favorable treatment in a separate criminal case. She was arrested March 22 on a probation violation stemming from a 2001 conviction for embezzling $25,000 from a Durham employer.

In April, a judge agreed to drop a requirement that Roberts pay a 15 percent fee to a bonding agent to get out of jail, with district attorney Mike Nifong signing a document saying he did not oppose the change.

The papers filed June 8 also raised questions about the accuser's sexual activities in the days leading up to the party. A police statement says the accuser told him "she had not had sex a week prior to the incident" but that she did perform for a couple in a hotel room in which she danced and used a sex toy on herself.

The court papers included a five-page handwritten statement from a man who said he accompanied the accuser to three "appointments" at area hotels during the weekend prior to the team party. The man also told investigators he had sex with the accuser, though he said that took place more than a week before the party.

Defense attorneys have suggested that any evidence of sexual activity on the accuser's part may have resulted from encounters before the party, not an attack by team members.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2622829

[gear02]

I'm wondering of all of you guys thoughts after tonight's 60 minutes reporting on the Duke case.

[eSDee]

Charges dropped:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2706267


DURHAM, N.C. -- Prosecutors dropped rape charges Friday against three Duke University lacrosse players accused of attacking an exotic dancer at a team party, but the three still face kidnapping and sexual offense charges.

According to court papers filed Friday by district attorney Mike Nifong, the accuser told a prosecution investigator on Thursday that she now does not know if she was penetrated during the alleged attack.

Nifong had previously said he could rely on the woman's account because of a lack of DNA evidence against the players.

Lacking any "scientific or other evidence independent of the victim's testimony" to corroborate that aspect of the case, Nifong wrote, "the State is unable to meet its burden of proof with respect to this offense."

Both rape and sexual offense carry the same possible sentence of up to 40 years in prison, while kidnapping is a lesser felony punishable by up to 17½ years behind bars.

Nifong did not immediately return calls seeking comment Friday, and a sign posted on his office door read "No media, please!" The county sheriff's department said no one from Nifong's office would comment Friday.

The DA's office confirmed to ESPN's George Smith that the accuser is aware the charge is being dropped.

The accuser, a 28-year-old student at North Carolina Central University, has said three men sexually assaulted her in a bathroom at a March 13 Duke lacrosse team party where she was hired to perform as a stripper.

The indicted players -- Dave Evans, Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann -- all say they are innocent. Their attorneys have consistently said no sex occurred at the party and cited a lack of DNA evidence as proof of their clients' innocence.

"It's highly coincidental," said defense attorney Joseph Cheshire, that the charges are being dropped a week after the director of a private DNA testing lab acknowledged that he initially, with Nifong's knowledge, withheld from the defense test results showing none of the players' DNA was found on or in the accuser's body.

Testing also showed that genetic material from several males was found on her undergarments and body.

"The reality is, what else could the DA do?" said Stan Goldman, who teaches criminal law, evidence and criminal procedure at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. "Once the DNA evidence came out last week, I can't imagine how they could sustain a rape charge."

But Wendy Murphy, a former prosecutor who now teaches at the New England School of Law, said the decision could actually help Nifong by keeping any discussion about the results of the DNA testing away from the jury.

"It may be that this is a strategic move to insulate the trial itself from a sideshow that certainly would have overwhelmed all the other evidence," Murphy said. "A sideshow about her sex life."

Even so, the changing story hurts Nifong's case on the other charges, Goldman said.

"It strikes me that a case based on this particular complaining witness' credibility appears to be in jeopardy," he said.

Defense attorneys have said for months that the woman has told several different versions of the alleged assault, and Seligmann's attorney has said she has given investigators at least a dozen different versions of the alleged attack.

The defense has also argued that the woman misidentified her alleged attackers in a photo lineup and they have asked the judge to prevent the accuser from identifying the players from the witness stand.

Evans graduated from Duke in May, the day before he was indicted. Sophomores Finnerty and Seligmann were suspended following their April indictments. A Duke spokesman said school president Richard Brodhead would comment later Friday, and the players continued to get support from the university's new lacrosse coach.

"We still believe in the truth and we believe the other charges are false," said John Danowski, who replaced former coach Mike Pressler, who resigned in the wake of the rape allegations. "We'll stand by these kids and their families until the whole thing comes to a conclusion."

I wonder how long until the other charges are dropped.

[Napoleon54]

That woman should be put in jail. Falsely or fraudulently making accusations should subject you to the same penalties that the accused would have suffered if convicted.

Just consider how negatively this has affected the accused players. And Duke itself... since this whole thing began, how many people have said to themselves "no way, I'm not going to Duke, that's where white lacrosse players get drunk and rape black women."

[ShawnLee]

While I don't know about people associating Duke exclusively with racist rapists (that's a great band name right there, "Raping Racists"), I would agree with the irreparable harm. Loss of stature, premature cancelling of the Lacrosse season, these men having their names and faces all over the news for months, etc. Yeah... Horrible.

[MikeD]

Let's hope Jesse finds his way back down to ol' Duke to help those guys clear their names, since he was so quick to jump into the fray initially. :2far:

[eSDee]

Merry Christmas Mike.

[MikeD]

Merry Christmas Mike.

You too old friend. Glad to see you liked the Prince of Persia game. ;)

[zippyjuan]

Nifong should be fired or impeached over this. He only pushed it to help himself politically. He never really did have a case.

[ShawnLee]

Nifong should be fired or impeached over this. He only pushed it to help himself politically. He never really did have a case.
That's what it looks like. So so sad.

[VTGreg]

Are there any laws to protect individuals who report rapes? I would think is something that is in place to get victims to come out with their stories.

I agree that Nifong should lose his job over this fiasco. From the beginning there have been questions about the case and these kids were drug through the mud because of it.

As far as the woman, I don't know how difficult it would be to construct a case against her. However, if it can be proven she falsely accused these kids, she should be in jail.

I doubt we will see Jesse anywhere near Durham anytime soon.

[Houdini]

Let's hope Jesse finds his way back down to ol' Duke to help those guys clear their names, since he was so quick to jump into the fray initially. :2far:

Hah! I think I'll not hold my breath waiting for that one.

I'd hate to be one of the guys who had his name dragged through the mud, his picture displayed on tv, and for now on will have to say, "yeah, I was one of those alleged Duke rapists, but I'm innocent" for the rest of his life.

H <----firmly believes that if racism were to vanish miraculously tomorrow (and hopes it will, but people are stupid), Jesse Jackson would be out of a job. Then again, wtf is his job?

[clutchy]

ridiculous.

Now I have to wonder if it was the media pounding them that made this thing fall apart...he's still trying to hang onto a few charges.

[zippyjuan]

It fell apart because he had no case. Now he is under fire:

N.C. Bar Files Charges Against Duke D.A.
By AARON BEARD (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
December 28, 2006 6:00 PM EST
RALEIGH, N.C. - The North Carolina bar filed ethics charges Thursday against the prosecutor in the Duke lacrosse case, accusing him of saying misleading or inflammatory things to the news media about the athletes under suspicion.

The punishment for ethics violations can range from admonishment to disbarment.

Among the four rules of professional conduct that District Attorney Mike Nifong was accused of violating was a prohibition against making comments "that have a substantial likelihood of heightening public condemnation of the accused."

The charges will be heard by an independent body called the Disciplinary Hearing Commission, made up of both lawyers and non-lawyers.

In a statement, the bar said it opened a case against Nifong in March 30, a little more than two weeks after the party where a 28-year-old student at North Carolina Central University hired to perform as a stripper said she was raped.

Nifong did not immediately return a call for comment.

Another of the rules Nifong was charged with breaking forbids "dishonesty, fraud, deceit and misrepresentation." The bar said that when DNA testing failed to find any evidence a lacrosse player raped the accuser, Nifong told a reporter the players might have used a condom.

According to the bar, Nifong knew that assertion was misleading, because he had received a report from an emergency room nurse in which the accuser said her attackers did not use a condom.

Defense attorney Joseph Cheshire, who represents one of the three lacrosse players charged with sexual offense and kidnapping, declined to comment.

Last week, Nifong dropped the rape charges against the athletes after the stripper wavered in her story.

[Houdini]

It fell apart because he had no case. Now he is under fire:

Good. Sounds like he really was a slimeball with a self-aggrandizing agenda.

[zippyjuan]

San Diego's DA is a media whore too. He pops up on the news all the time and is constantly filing or threatening to file cases. Even against the City Council for things the previous council did. He must be costing the city a lot of money every time he opens his mouth.

[MikeD]

This should have been one of the top news stories of the year. However, most folks probably wouldn't rank it in their top 10.

Thanks, mass media! :thumb:

[MikeD]

:2far:


RALEIGH, N.C. - The state bar has added ethics charges to a complaint filed against the prosecutor who brought sexual assault charges against three Duke lacrosse players, accusing him of withholding DNA evidence and making misleading statements to the court.
The new charges by the North Carolina State Bar against Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong were announced Wednesday and could lead to his removal from the state bar, according to a copy of the updated complaint.

Jesse, you're needed in Durham. Some individuals need help restoring their image.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16786991/

[Napoleon54]

Wow, the Wikipedia article on Nifong is brutal! Good job Wikipedia! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong

[cheapie]

just read back through the thread. ihad and nickle were still posting. and the poli forum was still closed so people were treading lightly. interesting.

[InfiniteNothing]

You know... tread lightly and transport a large bat