100k bmw vs. 60k camry, which is likely to be mechanically better?

blueindian · 06-12-2006, 06:40 AM

thinking of getting a new car. when i started looking around at ~12,000 cars i realized that if i wanted I could get an older bmw. i've never had a bmw, so i don't really know if higher mileage should be a concern. i've found a couple 3 and 5 series 2-3 owner cars in my range. there are lots of camrys in that range.

DarkFury · 06-12-2006, 06:55 AM

Whew... you talkin' mileage versus cost.

I was finna say... $100K BMW versus a $60K Camry.... where did you find a $60K Camry at and what bridge did they sell you with it.

galager · 06-12-2006, 06:57 AM

The question is, do you want a better performing car that you are willing to sink money into (Bimmer)? The BMW is gonna be more of a headache. Or do you want a reliable car that will most likely not need any repairs for a long time (Camry)?

SmokeyDP · 06-12-2006, 07:28 AM

If you get a 92-99 3 series or M3 they are actually very reliable and cheap to maintain if you can do most of your work. Parts are actually cheap from the dealership since they made tons of these cars. I am sure the Camry would be cheaper though since you can't get much cheaper than that. I have a 97 M3 with 158K miles on it and I beat the crap out of it on a daily basis. The BMW will go 250K+ miles if cared for. So far I had to replace my oil, coolant, thermostat, a relay, and a few minor bushings in the last 15K miles. I also replaced my original valve cover gasket as a preventive maintenance due to auto crossing. Still get 21/29mpg and everything in the car that is electronic works great.

bachviet · 06-12-2006, 07:31 AM

Camry will last longer and cheaper to maintain.

MikeD · 06-12-2006, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bachviet

Camry will last longer and cheaper to maintain.

Never had a BMW, but have owned a Camry and it was exceptional. Very low maintenance costs and reliable.

Sounds like you should be OK with either choice, though.

thresher · 06-12-2006, 08:45 AM

A non-rental car Camry will do better. Make sure you know the car's history. There are more Camrys every year being dumped by the rental chains and, well, you know how much they are to abuse.

"Drive it like you stole it" "No, man, drive it like you rented it"

Scorpio006 · 06-12-2006, 10:01 AM

The Camry, by far, is the more trustworthy vehicle. With regular maintenance both cars will last, but the Camry (being a Toyota) will give you at least 10 more years of car. Sure you may run into the regular items to be repaired/replaced being a front wheel drive.
The money saved in the purchase price will highly over-balance the repairs that become necessary (if necessary)!

ray · 06-12-2006, 10:32 AM

Sheesh! Where did you price a $60,000 Camry?

In terms of driving performance, a BMW will slap any Toyota around every day of the week. But in terms of quality and longevity of the vehicle I would say Toyota is the better brand for the long run.

Toyota (Toyota & Lexus brands) dominated the JD Power and Associates Initial Quality Survey conducted this year. Though overall Porsche actually won the lowest problems per 100 vehicles, Toyota had the top ranking vehicles in more than 10 car categories.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/06/07/...iqs/index.html

DarkFury · 06-12-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray

Sheesh! Where did you price a $60,000 Camry?

Hee hee... (Please refer to my first post above).

rollhard · 06-12-2006, 11:27 AM

We just got a camry owner in for transmission service. I looked at his odometer and was shocked. There must have been a mistake. It was a 93 camry with 430k miles on it. Original owner that has really driven the piss out of this thing. I am surprised that this is the original tranny. Not taking away anything from BMW, but its hard to get more reliable than a taken care of toyota. If you want a fun car though, you dont want a toyota, aside from the supra and mr2.

SmokeyDP · 06-12-2006, 11:33 AM

I owned a 93 Camry before I had the BMW and I ended up with the BMW because the Camry was gutless and boring to drive. I guess it really comes down to them both being good choices depending on what you want to do with it. If you want an economy car to get from point a to point b get the Camry. If you want a loaded luxury car that is fun to drive but still somewhat reliable then you want the BMW, but it will cost a bit more in the end.

Showtime · 06-12-2006, 12:46 PM

BMW's are built better lately, but are still expensive to maintain and don't hold up as well as other cars.
2 of my friends complain about maintenance/cost of ownership of their 5 year old 5 and 3 series. One with low mileage the other with a lot.
Grab that camry or find a used accord. If you have to have a BMW, save up and buy a brand new one. 5 years no maintenance and you don't have to wonder about the history of the car.

Airencracken · 06-12-2006, 01:11 PM

Camry. No question.

clutchy · 06-12-2006, 02:19 PM

camry seats SUCK!!

SecretIkon · 06-12-2006, 02:24 PM

Agree with all of the above who voted for the Camry. You will have a more reliable car cause maintanance wouldn't cost as much. But again it your preference.

Houdini · 06-12-2006, 06:24 PM

While there is some merit to the "Camry-no question" argument, I have a few things to point out.

BMWs aren't necessarily expensive to maintain. If you bring ANY car to the dealership, you're going to get screwed financially. BMWs, however, ARE easier to work on, as the engine is facing the right way, and the Germans built it so that even changing an oil filter is an unscrew-cap-remove-replace ting near the front of the engine. I've heard the "expensive to maintain" argument for years, but the parts aren't any more expensive than any Japanese car parts, especially Toyotas.

As far as things w/potential to break? Front wheel drive cars will leave you stranded much moreso than RWD or AWD. That's why race cars, rally cars, $$$ sports cars, etc., use those systems. FWD is simply cheaper. No expensive metal driveshaft running under the car. Is that a good thing? Well, I guess if you REALLY need all your weight over your driving wheels it's ok, but with most BMWs and similar, you get a near 50/50 split, greatly enhancing performance.

Next, safety. BMW wins. Almost always. They've taken the lead over the years in passive and active safety features. Sure, 2-3 years later, the American and Japanese cars implement the same features, but you just can't beat the structural rigidity, comfort, intended crumple zones, and, well, solid mass of a BMW. These cars, even the lowly 3 series, are made to cruise at 140+. So 70-80 is a crawl. Taking that into consideration and the STRICT German safety standards (you can't even drive your car in Germany if you're missing a light - redundant lights in BMWs - or if your car has more than an inch or two of rust), the cars have to be safe. So the front ends and wheel linkages (not encumbered by driving anything) are very, very solid.

Drive one of each. I think you'll be very impressed by the BMW - any model, from an ancient 2002 from the 1970's to a modern 3 or 5 series (e46-e90 for the free...stick with the e46 if you get one though, as they already have the bugs worked out.) I disagree with the people who plug BMW M3s here. They are built for pure performance. I love the cars, but I really wouldn't want to worry about the performance-enhancing stuff that may decrease the car's durability. As it is, my 325 is damn near bulletproof. Stops like a Porsche, turns like it's on rails, will NOT skid unless I turn all the traction stuff off, and has airbags from every surface ready to blast my head around in an impact.

So yeah, b/w those, I'd go for the BMW. There are usually independently or family-owned BMW service centers in cities that are run by enthusiasts and have the BMW CCA certification. If you don't want to work on your car, they will do it for a fraction of the dealer's cost. And believe me, the parts are pretty damn cheap. I'm having a body shop order a door shell for me now, and Id be very surprised if the Camry's costs less.

And I hate sideways engines. Ever change a water filter on one? Hell, ever change a belt? Real PITA. With a RWD, things are just, well, accessible.

rollhard · 06-12-2006, 07:43 PM

Im sorry but I have to disagree with everyone who thinks that BMWs are not any more expensive to maintain (parts and service wise) when compared to Toyota. We call for parts for customers all the time. The same part, the same discount %, the European car parts are almost 100% of the time more expensive. If you have too much time on your hands, call around dealerships and ask them for parts prices. Not saying that the BMWs are not reliable, etc. simply stating a fact coming from someone that does this for a living.

You can see the price hike trend even in the aftermarket industry. Companies and individual shops assume that since you are driving a BMW, you will have no problem paying for the higher priced product. Why do you think some places claim to specialize in "high end" cars like BMW?

I completely agree with H on the easier to work with because the engine is facing the "right" way. Thats true for any work that needs to be done on the engine, but not true on some other things as well. The fact is, any V6 FWD car is a pain to work on. The rear 3 cyl will make you cry and youll need to buy Salonpas from Costco in bulk to ease your back aches after working on the car.

SmokeyDP · 06-12-2006, 11:39 PM

I only have parts experience with the E36 body style. When I needed a new quarter panel it was $171 from the BMW dealership. Water pump was $90. Plus I get a 20% discount for being part of the BMWCCA. That's pretty cheap for the average car. Service is going to be expensive anywhere you go and you can find some good european mechanics. Plus these cars are really easy to work on. The waterpump takes less than 3 hours to swap out and thats with a full coolant flush. Everything makes sense and you don't have to take half the engine apart because stuff is in the way of doing something simple. You can't get parts for a BMW from places like Pepboys or Autozone because with what the dealership charges there is no aftermarket for cheaper parts. The E36 model ran for 8 years and most parts between the M3 and 3 series are interchangeable depending on the engine.

Houdini · 06-13-2006, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyDP

I only have parts experience with the E36 body style. When I needed a new quarter panel it was $171 from the BMW dealership. Water pump was $90. Plus I get a 20% discount for being part of the BMWCCA. That's pretty cheap for the average car. Service is going to be expensive anywhere you go and you can find some good european mechanics. Plus these cars are really easy to work on. The waterpump takes less than 3 hours to swap out and thats with a full coolant flush. Everything makes sense and you don't have to take half the engine apart because stuff is in the way of doing something simple. You can't get parts for a BMW from places like Pepboys or Autozone because with what the dealership charges there is no aftermarket for cheaper parts. The E36 model ran for 8 years and most parts between the M3 and 3 series are interchangeable depending on the engine.

There are some other reputable companies online that specialize in BMW stuff - apparel to replacement parts, upgrades, etc.

Jeffbx · 06-13-2006, 06:37 AM

60K Camry will be cheaper & possibly last longer. But it has no soul.

SmokeyDP · 06-13-2006, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houdini

There are some other reputable companies online that specialize in BMW stuff - apparel to replacement parts, upgrades, etc.

Yeah I know, but I was talking about retail OEM replacment parts. I should have made this clear. You can get BMW OEM parts a bit cheaper online too if you can wait the few days for them to arrive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffbx

60K Camry will be cheaper & possibly last longer. But it has no soul.

BMW = Ultimate Driving Machine
Camry = Ultimate Economy Machine

ramazank2 · 06-13-2006, 12:29 PM

Go buy a new 2007 4 cyl camry LE. I just negotiated a new one (base) for about $500 below invoice (~$17800) for my parents and they love it. It is a really nice car.

06-12-2006, 06:40 AM	#1
blueindian Vice Admiral Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: down in the ghetto Posts: 4,142	100k bmw vs. 60k camry, which is likely to be mechanically better? thinking of getting a new car. when i started looking around at ~12,000 cars i realized that if i wanted I could get an older bmw. i've never had a bmw, so i don't really know if higher mileage should be a concern. i've found a couple 3 and 5 series 2-3 owner cars in my range. there are lots of camrys in that range. __________________ yeah, pretty much we missed the boat on that one. but it's still here. get you some.

06-12-2006, 06:55 AM	#2
DarkFury Secretary of the Navy Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Chillin' N Da 'Hood Posts: 33,584	Whew... you talkin' mileage versus cost. I was finna say... $100K BMW versus a $60K Camry.... where did you find a $60K Camry at and what bridge did they sell you with it. __________________ DarkFury's Pimptopia - Don't Hate the Playa, Hate the Game! Home of the Original OG Pimp (accept NO imitations)

06-12-2006, 07:31 AM	#5
bachviet What's Da Pho*? Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SoCal (714) Posts: 13,133	Camry will last longer and cheaper to maintain. __________________ Dell Dimension 9200 \| Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4Ghz) \| 3x1GB DDR2 \| 256MB nVidia GeForce 8800GT Dell Inspiron 640m \| Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 (2.0GHz) \| 2x1GB DDR2 PC2-4200 \| Intel GMA 950 Intel P4-C 3.0GHz \| ECS 865PE-A \| 3x512MB PC3200 \| 128MB PNY GeForce 6600GT

06-12-2006, 08:45 AM	#7
thresher Commander Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: St.Augustine FL. Plymouth Rock is a newbie! Posts: 1,196	A non-rental car Camry will do better. Make sure you know the car's history. There are more Camrys every year being dumped by the rental chains and, well, you know how much they are to abuse. "Drive it like you stole it" "No, man, drive it like you rented it" __________________ Wait a second... you're telling me Sixpac Shakur is a CHICK?

06-12-2006, 10:01 AM	#8
Scorpio006 Captain Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: IN A ROUND RUBBER ROOM Posts: 1,565	The Camry, by far, is the more trustworthy vehicle. With regular maintenance both cars will last, but the Camry (being a Toyota) will give you at least 10 more years of car. Sure you may run into the regular items to be repaired/replaced being a front wheel drive. The money saved in the purchase price will highly over-balance the repairs that become necessary (if necessary)! __________________ At Least I Wake Up Every Day, Right ??

06-12-2006, 06:57 AM	#3
galager Plebe Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2	The question is, do you want a better performing car that you are willing to sink money into (Bimmer)? The BMW is gonna be more of a headache. Or do you want a reliable car that will most likely not need any repairs for a long time (Camry)?

06-12-2006, 07:28 AM	#4
SmokeyDP Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Middlesex, NJ Posts: 541	If you get a 92-99 3 series or M3 they are actually very reliable and cheap to maintain if you can do most of your work. Parts are actually cheap from the dealership since they made tons of these cars. I am sure the Camry would be cheaper though since you can't get much cheaper than that. I have a 97 M3 with 158K miles on it and I beat the crap out of it on a daily basis. The BMW will go 250K+ miles if cared for. So far I had to replace my oil, coolant, thermostat, a relay, and a few minor bushings in the last 15K miles. I also replaced my original valve cover gasket as a preventive maintenance due to auto crossing. Still get 21/29mpg and everything in the car that is electronic works great.

06-12-2006, 10:32 AM	#9
ray lilbigblue Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,631	Sheesh! Where did you price a $60,000 Camry? In terms of driving performance, a BMW will slap any Toyota around every day of the week. But in terms of quality and longevity of the vehicle I would say Toyota is the better brand for the long run. Toyota (Toyota & Lexus brands) dominated the JD Power and Associates Initial Quality Survey conducted this year. Though overall Porsche actually won the lowest problems per 100 vehicles, Toyota had the top ranking vehicles in more than 10 car categories. http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/06/07/...iqs/index.html __________________ new uploader My World

06-12-2006, 11:27 AM	#11
rollhard Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So Cal Posts: 370	We just got a camry owner in for transmission service. I looked at his odometer and was shocked. There must have been a mistake. It was a 93 camry with 430k miles on it. Original owner that has really driven the piss out of this thing. I am surprised that this is the original tranny. Not taking away anything from BMW, but its hard to get more reliable than a taken care of toyota. If you want a fun car though, you dont want a toyota, aside from the supra and mr2. __________________ Eloy '07 RPI 2.4GTS Race Precision Inc. Performance without Compromise

06-12-2006, 11:33 AM	#12
SmokeyDP Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Middlesex, NJ Posts: 541	I owned a 93 Camry before I had the BMW and I ended up with the BMW because the Camry was gutless and boring to drive. I guess it really comes down to them both being good choices depending on what you want to do with it. If you want an economy car to get from point a to point b get the Camry. If you want a loaded luxury car that is fun to drive but still somewhat reliable then you want the BMW, but it will cost a bit more in the end.

06-12-2006, 12:46 PM	#13
Showtime Lakers fanatic Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: L.A. ->SoCal<- O.C. Posts: 7,090	BMW's are built better lately, but are still expensive to maintain and don't hold up as well as other cars. 2 of my friends complain about maintenance/cost of ownership of their 5 year old 5 and 3 series. One with low mileage the other with a lot. Grab that camry or find a used accord. If you have to have a BMW, save up and buy a brand new one. 5 years no maintenance and you don't have to wonder about the history of the car. __________________ LAKERS Report 08-09: NBA FINALS: Your LOS ANGELES LAKERS report. Last edited by Showtime : 06-13-2006 at 12:34 AM.

06-12-2006, 01:11 PM	#14
Airencracken Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Upland, Ca. Posts: 6,349	Camry. No question. __________________ "I remember my first orgasm, I just wish someone was there to share it with me..."11-05-2003 05:33 AM - Topane They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, & the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opiate of the masses. - Karl Marx Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre

06-12-2006, 02:19 PM	#15
clutchy Rear Admiral Lower Half Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 2,441	camry seats SUCK!! __________________ LK was treated unfairly thanks X

06-12-2006, 02:24 PM	#16
SecretIkon Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 364	Agree with all of the above who voted for the Camry. You will have a more reliable car cause maintanance wouldn't cost as much. But again it your preference. __________________ "Life is like a race. You are running so quickly that you don’t seem to enjoy or pay attention to the people or objects around you."

06-12-2006, 06:24 PM	#17
Houdini Vice Admiral Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: New Orleans Posts: 4,912	While there is some merit to the "Camry-no question" argument, I have a few things to point out. BMWs aren't necessarily expensive to maintain. If you bring ANY car to the dealership, you're going to get screwed financially. BMWs, however, ARE easier to work on, as the engine is facing the right way, and the Germans built it so that even changing an oil filter is an unscrew-cap-remove-replace ting near the front of the engine. I've heard the "expensive to maintain" argument for years, but the parts aren't any more expensive than any Japanese car parts, especially Toyotas. As far as things w/potential to break? Front wheel drive cars will leave you stranded much moreso than RWD or AWD. That's why race cars, rally cars, $$$ sports cars, etc., use those systems. FWD is simply cheaper. No expensive metal driveshaft running under the car. Is that a good thing? Well, I guess if you REALLY need all your weight over your driving wheels it's ok, but with most BMWs and similar, you get a near 50/50 split, greatly enhancing performance. Next, safety. BMW wins. Almost always. They've taken the lead over the years in passive and active safety features. Sure, 2-3 years later, the American and Japanese cars implement the same features, but you just can't beat the structural rigidity, comfort, intended crumple zones, and, well, solid mass of a BMW. These cars, even the lowly 3 series, are made to cruise at 140+. So 70-80 is a crawl. Taking that into consideration and the STRICT German safety standards (you can't even drive your car in Germany if you're missing a light - redundant lights in BMWs - or if your car has more than an inch or two of rust), the cars have to be safe. So the front ends and wheel linkages (not encumbered by driving anything) are very, very solid. Drive one of each. I think you'll be very impressed by the BMW - any model, from an ancient 2002 from the 1970's to a modern 3 or 5 series (e46-e90 for the free...stick with the e46 if you get one though, as they already have the bugs worked out.) I disagree with the people who plug BMW M3s here. They are built for pure performance. I love the cars, but I really wouldn't want to worry about the performance-enhancing stuff that may decrease the car's durability. As it is, my 325 is damn near bulletproof. Stops like a Porsche, turns like it's on rails, will NOT skid unless I turn all the traction stuff off, and has airbags from every surface ready to blast my head around in an impact. So yeah, b/w those, I'd go for the BMW. There are usually independently or family-owned BMW service centers in cities that are run by enthusiasts and have the BMW CCA certification. If you don't want to work on your car, they will do it for a fraction of the dealer's cost. And believe me, the parts are pretty damn cheap. I'm having a body shop order a door shell for me now, and Id be very surprised if the Camry's costs less. And I hate sideways engines. Ever change a water filter on one? Hell, ever change a belt? Real PITA. With a RWD, things are just, well, accessible. Last edited by Houdini : 06-12-2006 at 06:27 PM.

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06-12-2006, 07:43 PM	#18
rollhard Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So Cal Posts: 370	Im sorry but I have to disagree with everyone who thinks that BMWs are not any more expensive to maintain (parts and service wise) when compared to Toyota. We call for parts for customers all the time. The same part, the same discount %, the European car parts are almost 100% of the time more expensive. If you have too much time on your hands, call around dealerships and ask them for parts prices. Not saying that the BMWs are not reliable, etc. simply stating a fact coming from someone that does this for a living. You can see the price hike trend even in the aftermarket industry. Companies and individual shops assume that since you are driving a BMW, you will have no problem paying for the higher priced product. Why do you think some places claim to specialize in "high end" cars like BMW? I completely agree with H on the easier to work with because the engine is facing the "right" way. Thats true for any work that needs to be done on the engine, but not true on some other things as well. The fact is, any V6 FWD car is a pain to work on. The rear 3 cyl will make you cry and youll need to buy Salonpas from Costco in bulk to ease your back aches after working on the car.

06-12-2006, 11:39 PM	#19
SmokeyDP Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Middlesex, NJ Posts: 541	I only have parts experience with the E36 body style. When I needed a new quarter panel it was $171 from the BMW dealership. Water pump was $90. Plus I get a 20% discount for being part of the BMWCCA. That's pretty cheap for the average car. Service is going to be expensive anywhere you go and you can find some good european mechanics. Plus these cars are really easy to work on. The waterpump takes less than 3 hours to swap out and thats with a full coolant flush. Everything makes sense and you don't have to take half the engine apart because stuff is in the way of doing something simple. You can't get parts for a BMW from places like Pepboys or Autozone because with what the dealership charges there is no aftermarket for cheaper parts. The E36 model ran for 8 years and most parts between the M3 and 3 series are interchangeable depending on the engine.

06-13-2006, 06:37 AM	#21
Jeffbx Fleet Admiral Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Michigan Posts: 8,576	60K Camry will be cheaper & possibly last longer. But it has no soul.

06-13-2006, 12:29 PM	#23
ramazank2 Commander Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Costa Mesa, CA -> San Jose, CA -> Costa Mesa, CA - WOO HOO!!! Posts: 1,225	Go buy a new 2007 4 cyl camry LE. I just negotiated a new one (base) for about $500 below invoice (~$17800) for my parents and they love it. It is a really nice car.