guiseppewv

Does anyone know if a plastic (at least I think it is plastic except for the fins) radiator can be repaired? It seems that I have a small leak where the cooling fins are on the radiator. I have a 1994 Honda Accord EX. I looked up the price for a new radiator and it is $290+ just for the parts. If it was a metal radiator I would just try to JB weld it.

Second question - I have a leak in my exhaust system just in front of the muffler. Just to be clear, the leak is on the pipe connecting the muffler to the rest of the exhaust system. The muffler is in great condition but the two places I have taken it to have told me that the muffler and the pipe need to be replaced. The muffler looks like it is in mint condition and from looking at the diagrams of the exhaust system it looks like the pipe and the muffler are two different parts. Why won't the repair shops replace just the pipe? I asked that question to both of the shops and they gave me answers like "the pipe and muffler are one piece" and "there is no way to replace just the pipe".

It isn't that I do not want to spend the money to get these two things replaced because I am willing to do that if that is the only course of action. Considering the age of the vehicle, I would like to keep my repair expenses to a minimum since the value of the car is < $3000.

Any insight/input is greatly appreciated.

mechmike0034

No... Nothing will reliably stick to the plastic tanks.

Replacements run from ~$70 to ~$150 at Rock Auto. Cheaper price = cheaper quality. The Proliance ReadyRad brand (Part # 432406) at about $100 should do you. I don't think it is too tough to install.


The muffler and pipe come in one piece, shown as 55026 below:


Bosal brand is ~$70 at Rock Auto (Part # VFM 1728). The flange is bolt-through. You could change this in the driveway with hand tools and drive-up ramps in under an hour unless the bolts were really rusty.

Nobody in their right mind would attempt to weld a splice into a piece of 14-year-old exhaust pipe. You'd be real happy when it fell apart a couple of weeks from now...


You probably won't find a shop that'll install your parts (meaning you buy them and carry them in when you drop your car off). It is more hassle (and potential liability) and less money for them, so most will insist on supplying the parts. Rock Auto is a good deal if you are capable of doing it yourself.

If the rest of the car's in decent shape, fix it.

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uncledaddy

MM is right. If you are going to replace the radiator yourself it isn't hard at all. The upper radiator support is all you have to remove to access the radiator and A/C condenser. I believe just four 10 mm nuts hold the radiator and condenser together together. It's always wise to replace the plastic radiator rather than repair. If your Honda is an automatic, don't forget the transmission cooling hoses attached to the radiator. and when all is done, don't forget to bleed the air through the 12 mm bleeder on the water outlet.

As far as the exhaust leak, most exhaust shops can weld a pipe in between, unless they feel that there isn't enough good pipe to weld onto. In that case, the only option is replace entire muffler/pipe.


Especially since those Hondas did get pretty good fuel mileage.

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guiseppewv

Thanks for the input, guys!

Ok, so I was a little mistaken. I guess the core of the radiator is aluminum along with the fins. Only the shell is plastic. Does this make a difference?

The muffler was replaced around 2001-2002. If the repair is that easy then I will attempt to do it on my own. Problem is that I have to have the car inspected soon and I am leaving the vicinity for a couple of months on business. I think the radiator is going to have to wait since it is a hairline crack but the exhaust will have to be replaced. Thanks for the input, guys!

uncledaddy

The plastic parts of your radiator are the tanks, and you should just replace this one. Radiator shops won't even attempt to repair a plastic tank radiator because it's difficult to reseal, and replacements are relatively inexpensive.

mechmike0034

I would do the radiator first. If it lets go it could cost you an engine.

The muffler's a safety thing, but unless you idle long periods with the windows closed the real-world chance of CO poisoning is small.

guiseppewv

Ok, sounds good. Do you recommend the Bosal exhaust parts? How do they compare to OEM. It would cost me twice as much for the OEM parts from Majestic Honda online. How long do the parts usually take to get to your house from RockAuto? With Majestic it was only a day or two because they are located in RI. I would like to get the parts before Friday so I can install them on Friday. Lastly, what gaskets do you recommend that I purchase?

Thanks, again, for all your help! This will save me a ton as compared to taking it somewhere.

mechmike0034

The Bosal's OK. They probably aren't OEM quality, but OK, particularly for the price. I have installed Bosal before and been pleased.

Get the gasket and the bolts, for sure. Slide up under the back of the car and check the rubber hangers - get them too if there's a doubt.

I never ordered from them personally so I couldn't tell you about shipping times.

guiseppewv

Ok, so I ended up ordering the Walker stuff. There was a rebate on the muffler for $50 and some of the Bosal parts (a gasket and bolts) were out of stock. I ordered the center pipe (46924), the muffler (55026), the gaskets that go inbetween the two aforementioned parts and the gasket that goes inbetween the center pipe and the cat. I also ordered bolts and springs to replace the existing ones plus I went ahead and ordered all 6 of the hangers needed.

FYI: The Bosal and Walker parts ship from different locations depending on stock and destination. Mine are coming from upstae NY and they should be here on Thursday.

Weird thing is that I called Majestic Honda and they said they could not ship the center pipe b/c it is too big. They use FedEx and so does Rock Auto. Anyone know why they would say they cannot ship that part when another retailer can and they both use the same shipper?

I did not order the parts for the radiator because I do not have time right now. I will replace it when I get back from my 4 month business trip. I am going to replace the exhaust b/c I need to get it emmissions inspected next week. I guess on Friday I can add exhaust replacement to my auto repair resume.

Thanks, again, gentlemen for the sage advice!

Daedalus

I thought you were in Hawaii? They do emissions testing now?

mechmike0034

There's no need to replace the center pipe if it is not leaking.

guiseppewv

I should have updated that. Moved back to MD a couple of weeks ago. I need to repair the exhaust because I am getting ready to do a 4 month assignment in Japan. The assignment starts next weekend. I need to have the inspection done asap because the MD govt is made up of a bunch of commies.

guiseppewv

The muffler is definitely leaking and the center pipe may be leaking. I am replacing it because it looks pretty rusty and it will save me a hassle down the road. It is worth the ~$70 to replace it now, so I do not have to worry about it later.

mechmike0034

OK - I am just trying to look out for one of my G|A brothers...

Free State, huh? There's an oxymoron for you.

guiseppewv

This state is the moron state. And it all starts with the governor who is/was a Baltimoron.

Thanks for looking out! I really do appreciate the sage advice I get from you.

mechmike0034

You are always welcome. As a native Virginian I cannot help but get an anti-Maryland dig in there once in a while...

guiseppewv

So, I completed the repair today. A couple of wrinkles happened. First, the center pipe split in two places as we were removing everything from the cat back. It was a good thing I bought that too because it was sooo rusted out. It split right before the connection with the muffler and right after the connection with the cat. Second, we had to cut three bolts off. We ended up having to remove everything from the cat back because the three bolts connecting the center pipe to the cat were rusted together. That made the job more difficult. Everything else went smoothly. I ended up not needing to replace any of the hangers, so I am going to return them. All-in-all it cost me <$200 to do the entire job and I was quoted just under $1k by Midas and just under $800 by Monroe. I think the job took us 3 hrs including driving to a couple of stores for hacksaw blades and a gasket. I did not think we would have to replace the gasket in front of the cat because the plan originally did not include removing the cat from the car.

Thanks again for the help!

Mike: You can bust on MD all you want because I am a transplant and I definitely do not consider it home.

uncledaddy

I thought you may run into some cutting and broken hardware considering you are now in the northeast. Hope you didn't get any busted knuckles. Congrats on the job. Gives you a sense of satisfaction when you do it yourself. Now you just have the radiator and your all set.

If you have any questions on that, just ask, I've done many. Haven't done many exhaust jobs because I was primarily an engine man. Good luck

guiseppewv

I will not be able to get to the radiator for a few months. I am keeping an eye on it to see how much it is leaking. What brand radiator do you guys suggest? Rock Auto has the following:
Spectra - $72.89
Proliance - $94.79
Koyo - $144.79
Proliance Pro-formance - $143.79
"Various Manufacturers" - $84.79

There is also the OEM, which is $212.35 for either Toyo or Denso.

Any thoughts, comments, preference, or advice?

uncledaddy

If you don't mind the $212, I recommend the Toyo or the Denso. The OEMs will look exactly like the one you replace and will generally have all necessary hardware, not just an applicable radiator with adapters. They also have better warranties.

I haven't heard of those others, so I couldn't tell you, maybe mike has.

mechmike0034

From post #2 above:


I have installed a few ReadyRads and been pleased with them...

guiseppewv

MM: Do you think there is much difference btwn the OEM and Proliance? What about btwn the Proliance RR and the Proliance Pro-performance? I don't mind spending more to get better quality if it is warranted. Thanks again for the help!

UD: Why do you recommend the OEM over the others? Thanks again for your help too!

Daedalus

My $.02: I used to buy aftermarket parts whenever possible to save on $$$, but after a couple years of this I also prefer OEM over aftermarket for a couple reasons: Quality and performance.
Quality is a little harder to see, but in my experience OEM parts are just better. They work right out of the box, they last longer and they almost never have fitment problems. OEM parts are designed as a part of a system with extensive and known assumptions rather than in a vacuum based on general guidelines. I expect the quality controls are more rigorous for car companies than aftermarket suppliers, since car cos offer longer warranties in their new cars and have to cough up both parts and labor for warranty claims.
Performance is the other reason and is a big factor for radiators. The OEM radiators in all my cars are aluminum with very dense fin arrangements. All cheap aftermarket radiators I've seen are made of steel, the fins are thicker, and there are fewer of them. Less cooling capacity overall. They may be good enough for you, depending on your climate, but how do you really know? The OEM unit was designed for worst-case--stop and go traffic during 110* summers in Phoenix, for example. I like the peace of mind.

mechmike0034

I don't know for sure, but remember this is an almost-fifteen-year-old car we're talking about.

According to their website, the Proformance does not have a built-in trans cooler, so don't buy it if your Honda has an automatic trans. The Ready-Rad does have one.

Here's the specs, and a pic of the Ready-Rad...

Like I said, I've had good luck with them.

guiseppewv

Thanks for the input!

I was looking over my Monro muffler estimate for the muffler and center pipe replacement and I was laughing. The estimate was like $818 and I am laughing because I spent <$190 in parts and a can of PB Blaster. Gotta like that!

Side note: Another thing that was on my Monro estimate was replacing the stabilizer bushings. Is this a difficult job? They wanted $80 or so for that.

Daedalus

Did the $80 include parts? It's pretty easy to do. Sounds like they were billing for an hour. You usually need 2 wrenches to keep the end link from turning while you take off the nuts. Or sometimes a wrench and an allen wrench. You'll probably need to buy bushings like the ones shown here.

uncledaddy

Daedalus pretty much summed it up. In almost 20 years professional I can't remember one problem with an OEM install, however, I can't even begin to count the problems with a lot of the aftermarket replacements that include adapters. Like Mike says, some don't come with the trans coolers for the autos and you'll have to install a separate cooler for those. Peace of mind is worth all if nothing else IMO.

guiseppewv

Well, I finally got around to fixing my radiator and it wasn't by choice. My car got broken into a while back (Linky (S: Car broken into)) and the ignition was completely busted out. I finally returned from Japan and had a chance to fix it, so I went to it this morning. Right after I replaced the ignition and I was getting ready to re-connect the battery I noticed something very odd. The primary radiator fan (i.e. not the A/C fan) was all cattywampus. After taking a look at it closer the fan motor came loose from the shroud and the fan hit the radiator and snapped off plus, I realized later, that the fuse for the fan blew. I had to replace the fan, the shroud, and the fan motor. I figured I might as well change the radiator and the hoses (trans, top, and bottom rad). So, after 5 hours of freezing my arse off, the job is done. It would have been fixed sooner but I could not figure out why the primary fan wouldn't come on when the car got up to temp. Ended up it was a blown fuse that probably happened when the old fan went haywire.

I think I have to return to the auto store because I think they did not charge me for the fan which was $90. I bought so much crap (radiator, upper and lower hoses, trans hose, ATF, coolant, retaining clips, screws, fan, etc...) and I need to re-look at the receipt but it seemed low.

Edit: I forgot one thing; Right after I replaced all that stuff, the car was idling funny after I took it for a long drive but then the problem went away. The funny idle was after I drove it and I parked it but left the engine running. The RPMs oscillated between 1k and 2k RPMs. I feel like this is deja vu but I cannot find a thread on this problem. Is it the IAC valve that is causing this?

mechmike0034

Had the battery been disconnected during the repair, or did it run down while you were overseas?

If either was the case, it probably took the ECU a little time to relearn its idle strategy. Typically this information is stored in volatile memory, so it gets erased when ECU power is removed.

guiseppewv

Both. I know it was disconnected for the repair and I also know that my friend had to jump start it once or twice because the alarm killed the battery. I will give it a little time to see if it goes away. Thanks!