renovation

when Saturn was first shown to the american car market. it was sold as a whole new concept in the GM family. and was not to sold or shared by there other car lines. now today its just another name plate under the GM copy cat approach of making cars. roger smith would of never of let that happen . but his replacement should be fired and a new leader put in his place .he has nothing but destroyed this once mighty car company.
what a laugh this is (GM CEO Rick Wagoner has also agreed to take a $1 salary should the company receive government aid.) he not saying he won't be getting stock options and other perks .
even if he gets a $1 dollar pay . i feel he be over payed. i personally do not care for what he has done to the company over the years he been the CEO.

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uncledaddy

I say let em go. I know you have a VUE, but Saturns turned out some ugly cars, the only halfway decent one is the Sky but even it is ugly. And they have been pretty much junk from the gate.

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Airencracken

Yup. And everything else but Chevy, GMC, and Cadillac.

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Daedalus

100% agree, I thought the exact same thing. $1 salary minus the billions in destroyed value is not a bargain.

I heard a comedian's routine that said, if you're on a plane that is going to crash, and the pilots don't know what to do, then they should at least give every passenger a shot in the cockpit. Kind of applies here. Is it really likely the execs have done the best job possible these last few years? Hardly. Give someone else a shot in the helm.

Kevster

Mrs. Kevster bought a saturn SC2 in 1999 against my recommendations that she get a Honda. [Sarcasm] It is clearly a quality GM-product [/Sarcasm] I call it the "satanmobile" as GM screwed the pooch on the engine's O-rings for that model series and it consumes a quart of oil every 1,000 miles or so. Mrs. Kevster doesn't like driving it anymore as it has a manual-transmission, so I am stuck with it for the time being. I hate this car, I hate dealing with it and generally hate driving it. If it didn't get 32-34mpg I would have gotten rid of it already.

Toss the whole line, IMHO.

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renovation

if the big 3 should close think about this!
the general public and the law makers in washington are so pig headed they just dont see it .i do not work for the big 3 or a auto supplyer but i have friends and family who are all across this country and not just in michigan .and if any of the big three should close its doors . this country and are canadian neighbors will feel this for years. sure there are other auto companys ready to take there market share . but will you have the means to buy them .and what happens to all the little ma and pop supplyers that supplyed jobs to the american worker .like the small rubber grommet company that made parts for the big 3 or that smaller medical supply company that supplyed the plants with band aids and eye wash . or the little factory that supplyed the auto company with floor soap to clean its floors. then there the local printers who supplyed those dealers with mailers .and the local papers that will loose high dollar sale ads every week all across the US and Canada ! were will they recoupe there loses if the big 3 should close down . you dont think this wont have a impact on you think again .maybe not today or tomorrow . but it will have a ripple affect .

Airencracken

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't people buy up a lot of that stuff and retool? Wouldn't it be better in the long run that way?

renovation

some may be but the bulk would just be turned into scrap!
collectable lines like the mustang , challenger, viper, camaro, firebird and some other's yes but for the most part no.

Airencracken

I'm reminded of wildfires clearing out the brush for new growth.

gear02

When we studied Saturn it was an amazing achievement and it garnered the same devotion as Apple does now. The problem is that GM never bothered to update its cars. It had the same product line and the same look for almost 10 years. By that time, any goodwill and brand value it had built up died very quickly.

Can GM resurrect the brand? Probably but it'll be too expensive so it might be worth trashing it and starting a new brand with a new vision.

Jihforce

Make it go away!!!
Seriously. Chevy/GMC/Caddy are the only things worth keeping in the US. Those three brands in my opinion, are the strongest here in the US (in terms of products and image). Buick and be a China-only brand since they are quite popular there. Kind of how Vauxhall/Opel/Holden are in Euro/Australia.

I blame a lot of GM's failures on their copy-cat approach (cannibalizes on their other brand) and their lack of quality in the past years. Certainly the last 2-3 years have been better, but they are still behind most imports in terms of design and built quality.

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renovation

at this point i think its to late for the government wheels to turn .
i think we will loose the Amercian car company's .and come election time again. these members of government who have shun the American auto company's. can take pride in knowing they are in part the reason for the state of the USA!
these people will start there Christmas vacations in the week or so. god knows most people only dream of having as much time off as the politicians do in Washington. they work so hard to earn there keep.

Cubsfan

What? The politicians are at fault for a amazingly poorly run business failing? Strange to change the focus to the politicians and not think about all of the executives, and in this case workers, that had a much bigger hand in this problem.

renovation

its a total problem world wide .im just saying its Christmas time for Washington starting next week. and even if they were to decide to be nice and help the American car industry. the chance of it passing by then or before the start of the new year is slim to none .

attgig

i guess pontiac sucks so bad that you didn't even think about them?

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Jihforce

The only Pontiac I like is the G8 GT and that's not even really a Pontiac. I think Pontiac doesn't need to exist. You can move the better cars in Pontiac's lineup onto Chevy's and kill the overlapping models. That should help Chevy sales and keep costs down.

Jeffbx

I'm late to the party on this one, but as someone who used to work for Saturn, I can tell you for SURE that they were 100% headed in the right direction until GM screwed them up, right around '97/'98. Saturn was profitable, & they were fixing the issues with their engines (Kevster, I feel your pain - I had a '98 with the exact same problem - they had to rebuild the engine at 30k miles). Meanwhile, they operated with a flat organization - all decisions were team based. Everyone in the whole company sat at the same type of desk - there were no offices. There was no stifling bureaucracy, and the workers had voted to keep the UAW OUT of the plant. Thing were going OK but steadily improving.

Meanwhile, the GM small car division was losing money on every car they sold. This included the Cavalier & a handful of other little crappy cars. So GM, in their infinite wisdom, decided to merge Saturn with Small Car. Practically overnight they ruined the company. They came in, built offices, replaced good people with morons, moved manufacturing to other plants, re-introduced the typical org chart, and generally made it exactly the same as any other GM division.

So yeah, as it is, no one would miss them. However, if they could magically go back to how they were in the mid-90s, they (of all the GM divisions) could survive this.

But as of right now, I'd say:

- Kill Pontiac & Saturn
- Sell Saab & Hummer
- Keep Cadillac, GMC, & Chevy
- Spread the Buick guys between Caddy & Chevy, then kill Buick
- Don't touch Opel, Holden, Vauxhall or any of the other int'l divisions
- Get rid of 50% of the dealerships
- Scrap all of the union contracts & start over with something realistic
- Kill pension & lifetime health care & go to a 401k system like every other corporation in the US
- Totally eliminate exec bonuses until the govn't loans are paid back
- In general, start acting like a responsible corporation, not one with unlimited cash. In order to do this, a lot of execs would need to be replaced since they don't know any other way of doing business.

Kevster

What's hilarious about my wife's satanmobile is the problem started right around 30k miles as well. Saturn was likely well aware of the issue and tried "troubleshooting" the problem with no results until it was out of warranty.

I totally agree with you on your recommendations. With all healthcare, pensions, pay and other benefits rolled in, the cost of the average worked for the Big 3 is $72/hr. There is no way in hell they can compete with Toyota or Honda who are making their vehicles here in the US for $46/hr (that number may be a little high).