johnnymk

There is a Toyota Prius sitting outside of our building that we bought for evaluation....Man, is it ugly.
We also have a small fleet of GM Solectria Electric Vehicles.... another ugly beast.
I have yet to see an alternate fuel/hybrid/electric vehicle that looks appealing. If these cars were attractive, maybe they would sell. I don't get it.

TommyBoomfiger

good question. i know someone who has one and loves the "futuristic" looks of it. i think thats what some of these car companies are going for. for me, i need something that goes from 0-60 in less than 15 seconds

styleee

i test drove a prius for a weekend last year, & it was pretty quick. electric engines are faster off the line then gas, but their top speeds are much slower. and thats because it would drain the battery way too quick if you went 120mph

pennypinch

Because if they were good looking or appealing in some way, people would buy them. As it is, these companies lose money on their high economy cars, and get smacked on the hybrid/electric cars. They make it up (and more, obviously) with their emissions credits on the SUV's and luxury sedans.

They only produced the hybrids and their ilk in order to satisfy PR and government requirements. They aren't actually meant to sell well.

Jihforce

Yeah. I think that's sorta true. I know I wouldn't buy one. I'm gonna stick with good old gasoline powered, smog producing cars

johnnymk

The PR angle makes sense. The government can legislate all sorts of things, but they sure can't tell you to make them attractive. Good point!
I seriously doubt that electric vehicles help the environment, anyway. The elecric power has to be generated and it's usually from a carbon based fuel. And the losses that occur throughout the electrical distribution network contribute to decreasing it's overall efficiency.

psycho-

Cd baby, it's all about Cd when you wanna make a EV/Hybrid

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BADFlSH

How about a tzero... supposedly 0-60 in under 5 seconds
http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero_pages/tzero_home.htm

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pennypinch

Economies of scale, my good man. Putting a small power plant in each car is far less efficient than burning massive amounts of fuel. That's why distributive power technology isn't really a reality unless you can make small generators as efficient as gigantic power plants. Short answer, yeah, they help the environment, but you can imagine why car companies and oil companies wouldn't be too keen on seeing them become popular. Hell, given their current financial state, ELECTRIC companies don't like electric vehicles!

styleee

you guys should all do a little research before you talk.

hybrid cars are being sold for FAR LESS then the cost to make them. they are doing that so that people will buy them, even tho they aren't the best thing in the world, and so that the little money generated can be put toward making them better so that people will want them.

and how are they as bad for the environment as gas powered cars?? where do you get your information from? a cracker jacks box?

pennypinch

Yes, and Firestone didn't know about their tires.

Sounds like their PR work is doing the trick. Fooled you.

johnnymk

OK, here's the stats on the Solectrias we have in our fleet:

205 volts times 15 amps times 5 hours for a full charge=
15,375 watts or 15.3 KW
This full charge is to travel 45-50 miles
Cost per KWHR here is approx. 13 cents times 15.3 KW=$2.00

This is nothing to brag about,especially considering that the
car is puny. On top of that, the battery pack must be changed
frequently . I didn't get the costs, but I remember that they
were substantial. Oh, by the way, the car cost nearly $40,000.

Show me the figures that demonstrate emission savings.Electric
vehicles are in no way Zero Emission Vehicles.

pennypinch

Well, slow down now, johnny.

Maybe you're talking exclusively about electric cars, but hybrids are intrinsically more efficient than regular cars because they harvest the energy that's wasted by gas-only cars.

As for emissions savings: think of power plants (which run, largely, on natural gas) as gigantic engines. It, only logically, would make sense that these gigantic engines are more efficient than millions of little engines (as we find in cars). Furthermore, power plants have more stringent emissions regulations than your average Escalade or G-Wagon. So, while I agree that alterna-fuel cars are stupid right now, they do do what they're supposed to do.

johnnymk

If I remember correctly, natural gas fired power plants account for no more than 35-40% of the entire power plants in America. The rest are coal, oil, nuclear, hydroelectric, solar and wind, If all power plants were natural gas, I would agree with you, but they are not.
I do agree that hybrid vehicles could possibly have a future. Of all the alternative means of propelling a car, this method appears to be the most feasible. I also thought that the flywheel concept vehicles that Chrysler was working on had a lot of potential, but it seemed to have died out. Probably too expensive??

pennypinch

Numerically speaking (i.e., number plants), yes, they do only constitute about 35%. However, they produce far a greater percentage of power. Furthermore, nuclear, wind, solar, and hydro are all much cleaner than gas. Of the ones you mentioned, only oil and coal are dirtier, and those are quickly being phased out.

In short, gas powerplants are surprisingly efficient and clean. Natural gas burns quite cleanly compared to "old world" fuels like oil or coal.

TommyBoomfiger

thats a cool electic car. not a bad price considering the performance and the technology

billxp

I read somewhere that Honda is making the Civic into a hybrid.
It will get less than the almost 70 mpg that the Honda Insight gets due to its larger size.

To me the hybrid is the way to go in terms of a commuter car.

Better overall gas mileage.
Easier for the public to accept because:
There is no need to plug them in and
No risk of running out of battery power

psycho-

Once again, you guys aren't thinking about the issue of aerodynamics. Alot of them have sub .30 Cd ratings, which is considered relatively low. Let's think....duh...why aren't you guys even talking about aerodynamics as a factor in the design?

TommyBoomfiger

Im pretty sure that cars can be aerodynamically efficient and good looking at the same time.