SnowSurfer

http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/21/pf/a...ex.htm?cnn=yes

hmm i dunno seems like someone had a bad hybrid car expierence...

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ray

Doesn't really give me the impression of a bad experience. Just shows another viewpoint on the advantages/disadvantages of buying a hybrid.

I'm still an advocate of the new hybrid vehicles being released this fall, that "look" like their gas-equivalents.

Chgoman

One thing that I think is interesting is that they always say if you travel the freeways a lot you loose some of the benefit as they get better mileage in stop and go traffic. This may be true on paper, but in reality freeways tend to be fairly flat while in many areas the city area is hilly which hurts the mileage. I know in my Prius, I average about 50MPG going 75-80 on the freeway and usually about 42 around town, but I live in a hilly area. If I'm in stop and go traffic on the freeway, I average about 65 MPG.

The other flawed area of comparison I see a lot is comparing savings vs. the identical or closest model. If your choice is between the Civic and Civic Hybrid or the Prius and Camary, that's fine. The reality is that for most people the Hybrid vehicles hold a certain attraction that make some people consider them when they would not buy the equivolant vehicle. For me because I have unique business needs, my choice was between (strangely enough) the Prius and an Explorer. Since that's my choice, and with the mileage I drive, I'm saving about $1,500 a year in gas which saves me a ton of money.

The real money saving comparison is different for each individual depending on what 2 cars they are deciding upon.

ray

I completely agree with that, which is why I haven't compared my gas-engine Camry to the Prius. In fact, the only good comparisons anybody can make at this point are between the Rx330/Rx400h and the Civic/Civic Hybrid.

attgig

I think the advantages for the SUV hybrids will be a lot greater than the civic or prius. with the civic, you're comparing two fuel effecient cars, where with an SUV, you're comparing a gas guzzler maybe getting 20mpg with a suv getting civic-like mileage.

also, if you do a lot of driving in the city (like i do), the advantages can be huge with an SUV which usually gets 15-20 mpg in the city vs the 35+ in a hybrid.

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Chgoman

Just remember that if the EPA says 35, you're probably realistically looking at the high 20's at best.

Windsor

Whoa really? I thought EPA estimates are usually pretty accurate and if anything, they would be on the low side of things?

attgig

The EPA standards were set back in the 70's or so. it's old, and outdated, and very high compared to real world driving. the EPA on my jeep says 15/20, i realistically get 12/18

Chgoman

EPA standards overestimate quite a bit. Most cars get something like 75% of the actual EPA rating. The whole system needs to be redone, but it never will since the car companies love the rating system. It helps them meet their required 'average' MPG so they don't get penalized by the EPA.

Windsor

Ahhh i see, i figured it would be in the EPA's interest to be stingier with the ratings but I guess its hard to change things sometimes. Are there review sites that give more accurate gas mileage ratings? I don't remember seeing them on Edmunds?

InfiniteNothing

That's an "at least it's not as bad as" argument. That doesn't mean that hybrid cars smart choices in general

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JackHammer

Snowsurfer, do you have a picture of your civic? From your description it sounds pretty cool.

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ThinkBling

Get a VW with a nice turbo diesel engine. While it doesn't get as high of gas mileage, diesel fuel is much cheaper than normal gas (right now anyway).

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Airencracken

Yeah, but diesel is far more polluting.

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InfiniteNothing

though if you don't care about that sort of thing I can see it as a good alternative

guiseppewv

In terms of particulate matter but not in terms of greenhouse gasses.

whitak24

it seems to be that it depends on the car. in some of my cars, i've gotten far higher than the EPA numbers. for example, in my last car (92 buick regal 3800), i could easily pull 32+mpg in straight highway driving. according to the government ratings, it got 28 mpg in highway driving.

and believe me, i am not a "gentle" driver. i'm the type who floors it at any opportunity and goes 85-90 most of the time. i'm also not really good about keeping a car tuned up. so at least for that car, i think the epa estimates were way low.

Chgoman

It obviously depends on the driver and the car, but in general if you talk to most people the way an average person drives their car, truck, SUV, etc, they will get significantly below EPA mileage ratings. EPA ratings for highway are done at something like a 30 mile trip at a steady speed of fifty some miles per hour and that's just not going to happen in the real world.

bachviet

Yes it could happen on my way to LV but not at 55 mph.

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guiseppewv

I agree the EPA testing method or rating method must be brought up to speed. They should base the test on 70 mph highway speed b/c it is the highest "legal" speed limit and therefor should be the worst case scenario. I think, though, that my car's (Altima SE) highway EPA rating is on the money. When I do drive 70 mph for 10+ miles I get over 30 mpg and the EPA rating on my car is 29. The part of the EPA rating that should really be modified is the city driving rating. I do not think that the current EPA method takes into account gridlock and bumper to bumper city driving. Just my 2 cents.