BMW Unveils World's Fastest Hydrogen-Powered Car

_=DeltaForce=_ · 09-23-2004, 07:48 PM

Quote:

PARIS (Reuters) - German luxury carmaker BMW unveiled the world's fastest hydrogen-powered car at the Paris auto show on Wednesday, dubbed the H2R, capable of exceeding 300 kilometers (185 miles) per hour.

"Our drive toward the future is called hydrogen," BMW management board member Burkhard Goeschel said before the tarp slowly slipped off the teardrop-shaped body of the sleek race car.

Goeschel, responsible for technology and development at BMW, said the streamlined rocket car sprints from 0 to 100 kmh in about six seconds and reached a top speed of 302.4 kmh on BMW's test track at Miramas, France.

"It's called the H2R -- 'R' as in record," Goeschel said, visibly proud of the company's breakthrough achievement in the field of zero emissions.

Unlike most hydrogen-powered vehicles, the H2R doesn't operate on a fuel cell but rather uses a modified 6-litre, 12-cylinder combustion engine for its propulsion that essentially emits nothing but steam.

An advantage of the higher combustion pressure of the hydrogen-air mixture is its higher degree of efficiency, BMW added.

The company cautioned, however, that while the cars don't pollute, production of hydrogen as a fuel does entail pollution.

Hydrogen is obtained either from fossil fuels such as natural gas or by applying electrical power to water molecules. Ecologically, the problem of finding a regenerating source of primary energy remains.

While BMW is developing fuel-cell driven cars as well, it says it is concentrating on the combustion engine because the sum total of its features and characteristics offers the largest number of advantages and benefits all in one.

"We had just 10 months to develop the H2R prototype," said project manager Juergen Kuebler in a statement.

Although the outer skin is made of carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic like a Formula 1 car, Goeschel said he wasn't considering registering it for next year's racing circuit.

I want this car.......

bachviet · 09-23-2004, 07:59 PM

That's pretty cool technology.

DankNstickY · 09-23-2004, 08:00 PM

thats pretty cool... but when does the good looking one come out?

InfiniteNothing · 09-23-2004, 08:23 PM

Emits nothing but steam... I seriously doubt that. Hydrogen burning causes NO2 pollution just like gas. Hydrogen burning is the dumbest idea ever because you need electricity to make hydrogen... and where do you get that??? You use a combustion engine to generate electricity. You just add inefficiency: Congrats

PrObLy · 09-23-2004, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing

Emits nothing but steam... I seriously doubt that. Hydrogen burning causes NO2 pollution just like gas. Hydrogen burning is the dumbest idea ever because you need electricity to make hydrogen... and where do you get that??? You use a combustion engine to generate electricity. You just add and inefficiency: Congrats

Almost agreed. But what about using solar panels or wind power specifically for the electrolysis? I mean, you can't store the extra energy from solar or wind power so why not send whatever's not being used to separate the Hydrogen from Oxygen?

I think the biggest problem would be storing the hydrogen afterwards seeing that it would have to be under some serious pressures if I'm not mistaken.

*oh, and about the NO2, I'll do some research because I'm not positive, I believe that the NO2 levels of a hydrogen combustion engine are still very small. Wouldn't a specially designed catalytic converter be able to lower NO2 levels even further? Plus, there's no carbon in the fuel.

InfiniteNothing · 09-23-2004, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrObLy

Almost agreed. But what about using solar panels or wind power specifically for the electrolysis? I mean, you can't store the extra energy from solar or wind power so why not send whatever's not being used to separate the Hydrogen from Oxygen?

I think the biggest problem would be storing the hydrogen afterwards seeing that it would have to be under some serious pressures if I'm not mistaken.

*oh, and about the NO2, I'll do some research because I'm not positive, I believe that the NO2 levels of a hydrogen combustion engine are still very small. Wouldn't a specially designed catalytic converter be able to lower NO2 levels even further? Plus, there's no carbon in the fuel.

I'm going to stop you at storing. Anytime you store energy, you're going to lose efficiency wether it be by battery or whatever. The extra energy from those forms of power supplement traditional forms. They can then slow down producing fewer emissions. Slowing down traditional forms seems much more valuble than storing it.

My understand (I could be wrong) when you burn hydogen, it's hella hot and NO2 production is rampant. I don't see why a catalitic converter would be any more usefull there. They are all pretty much the same...hot precious metal.

My solution: Force MPG standards. If you get under 20mpg (later make this 30), you pay an extra oil tax on all your gas. Gas guzzlers steel precious resources and it's not fair to anyone.

PrObLy · 09-23-2004, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing

I'm going to stop you at storing. Anytime you store energy, you're going to lose efficiency wether it be by battery or whatever. The extra energy from those forms of power supplement traditional forms. They can then slow down producing fewer emissions. Slowing down traditional forms seems much more valuble than storing it.

My understand (I could be wrong) when you burn hydogen, it's hella hot and NO2 production is rampant. I don't see why a catalitic converter would be any more usefull there. They are all pretty much the same...hot precious metal.

My solution: Force MPG standards. If you get under 20mpg (later make this 30), you pay an extra oil tax on all your gas. Gas guzzlers steel precious resources and it's not fair to anyone.

I see what you're saying and I agree with your solution.

Where our paths seem to have diverged, however, seems to be with the "storing" concept. I was referring to how the hydrogen (gas I presume) would be stored at stations in order to refuel the cars and also the delicate transporation it would take to get it there. Imagine some sort of tanker transporting the hydrogen to a station getting into an accident ... out comes the mass amount of hydrogen, combines with some oxygen and BOOM, that wouldn't be good.

I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to create enough solar energy or wind power to run the electrolysis. Since the extra power from the standard grid using these power forms gives the fossil fuel burning a break (I didn't think of that, thanks for correcting me, it makes sense), they could use standalone solar or wind plants/terminals/whatever you'd like to call them to be fully devoted to the electrolysis process and from there run whatever 'extra' power these stations may be creating back into the main grid.

I doubt any of this is really that simple, but it could be a start.

I dug up a couple links about the hydrogen combustion engine and the NOx that's created. It seems to be that the hydrogen burn temp can be kept low and by using direct injection and very very lean air mixtures the NO2 can be reduced to some pretty low levels.

Of course, these links come from places that probably don't look at the potential downsides of the hydrogen combustion engine..

Ford
Green Concepts

p3rsian · 09-24-2004, 02:22 AM

Bmw !

InfiniteNothing · 09-24-2004, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrObLy

I see what you're saying and I agree with your solution.

Where our paths seem to have diverged, however, seems to be with the "storing" concept. I was referring to how the hydrogen (gas I presume) would be stored at stations in order to refuel the cars and also the delicate transporation it would take to get it there. Imagine some sort of tanker transporting the hydrogen to a station getting into an accident ... out comes the mass amount of hydrogen, combines with some oxygen and BOOM, that wouldn't be good.

I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to create enough solar energy or wind power to run the electrolysis. Since the extra power from the standard grid using these power forms gives the fossil fuel burning a break (I didn't think of that, thanks for correcting me, it makes sense), they could use standalone solar or wind plants/terminals/whatever you'd like to call them to be fully devoted to the electrolysis process and from there run whatever 'extra' power these stations may be creating back into the main grid.

I doubt any of this is really that simple, but it could be a start.

I dug up a couple links about the hydrogen combustion engine and the NOx that's created. It seems to be that the hydrogen burn temp can be kept low and by using direct injection and very very lean air mixtures the NO2 can be reduced to some pretty low levels.

Of course, these links come from places that probably don't look at the potential downsides of the hydrogen combustion engine..

Ford
Green Concepts

Hydrogen storing is no more dangerous than gas storage. We still have gas trucks catching on fire. It's not as explosive as you think because it's not well mixed with oxygen. One of my science teachers had a demo of this and lanched a watch glas into the ceiling (with the good mix). I'd be more worried about the environmental damage Hydrogen leaks do (Large quantities of hydrogen kill ozone) Got|Compartmentalization?

Airencracken · 09-24-2004, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p3rsian

Bmw !

Moron.

Probly, I've often thought about sort of the same situation you're proposing. In fact the Honda FCX's that L.A. has are fueled (sometimes) by a solar plant the produces hydrogen, the bad thing is it's a large array of photovoaic cells and it takes a week to make a tank of gas (as it were). One thing that is being done in Iceland, is the use of geothermal energy for hydrogen production. Realistically Hydrogen is safer to transport than gasoline or diesel. In the hindenburg accident I believe most of the deaths from burning occured as a result of the diesel fuel burning on the ground. Anyways, the containment issue is another large factor, and could leave us in the same situation we have now with ozone destruction.

09-23-2004, 07:59 PM	#2
bachviet What's Da Pho*? Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SoCal (714) Posts: 13,296	That's pretty cool technology. __________________ Dell Dimension 9200 \| Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4GHz) \| 4x1GB DDR2 \| 256MB nVidia GeForce 8800GT Dell Studio 17 \| Intel Core i7-720QM (1.6GHz) \| 2x2GB DDR3 1066MHz \| 1GHz ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Intel P4-C 3.0GHz \| ECS 865PE-A \| 3x512MB PC3200 \| 128MB PNY GeForce 6600GT

09-23-2004, 08:23 PM	#4
InfiniteNothing Chief of Naval Operations Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 10,086	Emits nothing but steam... I seriously doubt that. Hydrogen burning causes NO2 pollution just like gas. Hydrogen burning is the dumbest idea ever because you need electricity to make hydrogen... and where do you get that??? You use a combustion engine to generate electricity. You just add inefficiency: Congrats __________________ As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Last edited by InfiniteNothing : 09-23-2004 at 10:53 PM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

09-24-2004, 02:22 AM	#8
p3rsian Commander Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,142	Bmw !

User Name
Password
Remember Me?