RoniMan

From businessweek.com

Well, I guess it's time to buy the ps3.

ray

I have the XBox360 HD DVD addon drive (purchased for $120) and I've got my 7 free HD-DVDs or whatever. I've watched Blu-Ray movies and HD-DVD movies and can't tell the difference in quality. I'm not really into all the special disc features and never spend the time to go through most of the crap that comes with regular DVDs.

With that said, I still think Sony's proprietary everything is the reason for their poor performance across the board in the past decade. Back in the day of Trinitron and Walkman, Sony was a beast in the consumer electronics market. But since those times, they've really only had one success and that was the Playstation (sans the PS3...for the time being).

Is this the end of the latest format war? It very well could be. Am I happy that Blu-Ray seems to have the edge now? Absolutely not. I was a Sony fan when I was growing up, but now with so many cheaper alternatives with the same quality I'll choose the competitors who allow for some third-party manufacturing of hardware, accesssories, etc.

renovation

when i was younger Sony was #1
and Panasonic was no.2
for portable radios and walkmans
sony was also a leader in tvs back then.
but so was a lot of company that are no longer around .
there were RCA that were made by RCA and not just a retagged manufacture. hell tv sets were made in factorys right here in the USA. now you can't find one true american made tv. lot have american name plates .but i can't think of one made on american soil

heck tell me one car that is made with 100 % american made parts today. if you can name one i'd send you a tee shirt. im talking 100% american made production auto .not some specialty car.

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nate el bueno

That's kind of disappointing to me. I've never liked sony that much, but as if my opinion changes anything...I was reading maximum PC last night and apparently Microsoft is trying to keep HD-DVD in the battle by offering content only on HD-DVDs, and some guy was ranting about how he thought Microsoft wanted to make both fail so people would turn to their online content or something of the sort.

eSDee

Crap I just got an Xbox360! I wanted to get the external HD DVD player (I still might). I wish the war would be over already. I need to get my high def DVD collection started soon!

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tupacboy

damn i was hoping somewhere in there samsung comes out of nowhere and does something totally new... lol

Memo

I'm pretty sure the war is over:

"HD DVD Throws in the Towel"
http://www.i4u.com/article13927.html

LPMiller

That's pretty much true though. Micorsoft has made no secret they believe the future is digital downloads. Me, I don't think it's happening until FOIS is more prevalent. If micorsoft really cared, the Xbox would have launched with HDDVD.

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DarkFury

BTW... not that anyone is paying attention, but sbp beat ya to the punch on this by a day here:

http://www.gotapex.com/home-theater-...-may-08-a.html (Warner Bros goes Blu-Ray exclusive beginning May 08)

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Houdini

Well, at least in this case it seems the superior tech won out...Blu-ray is 1080p, right?

Kinda like the Beta/VHS war. Beta was clearly superior (same reason that news cameras, if they're not digital, they're beta,) but VHS had longer tapes and more studios jumped on, primarily b/c it took Sony ages to license its technology.

H <---still has a couple of beta decks lying around. I only use them every few years to record something important, which I may have to stop doing if I get a DVR.

BTW, any non-TIVO (non-pay-by-month) DVRs around that people like? I'd really like to catch my favorite shows whenever they're on.

H

LPMiller

both are 1080p, neither really can be said to have superior tech. One holds a little more than the other, but it wasn't every really relevent.

InfiniteNothing

Well, I guess it's time for Toshiba to come out with an even longer and more awkward acronym: VHDDVD. Deep color, xvYCC, 4K, here we come

Oh wait. How about UV-ray pronounced You've-Ray

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Prngr44

I wonder how long it'll take MS to come out with their BluRay addon for the 360?

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InfiniteNothing

I imagine since they use the same Codecs MS could recycle much of their code. Still, like it was said before, they might not want to because they want to bolster their own IP movie system.

Jeffbx

It won't be blu-ray, it'll be dual format, I bet.

DarkFury

Honestly, it looks to me that Sony dug REALLY deep into its pockets to buy this win...

Still... I dunno if this battle is over yet. I'm still not buying any HD disk players in light of this announcement. I want a final decision before I invest any of my money into either one.

Houdini

Ah..didn't know HD-DVD could handle 1080p. I stand corrected. Thanks.

H <--still a Beta fan

DarkFury

BTW.. I read from another forum (GASP) that HD-DVD was technologically "superior" in regards to functionality over Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray just had a "capacity" edge... but as far as overall functions as to what you could do with the format, HD-DVD came out ahead.

That info was posted in article in the San Jose Mercury News.

Here is a recap of what was said in that article (reprinted since it was a real paper and not an online article...)


Paper: San Jose Mercury News
Date: November 26, 2007
Section: Tech (section "C")
Page: 5C
Title: Why HD DVD beats Blu-ray



Honestly, with features like this, it is somewhat surprising that Blu Ray will win... but then again, with a major company like Sony putting it's financial muscle behind something like this so furiously, it's really no surprise that they had the ability to buy out the market.

InfiniteNothing

The main advantage of Bluray IMHO is that per rotation, there is more data. That enables faster read times of disks without physically spinning at 10000 rpm (which is bad, CDs have been known to disintegrate and practically explode in a mess of plastic shrapnel).

I'm not sure if I mind a la cart features like internet connectivity.

Both specs are still in transition: isn't HD DVD kicking around a 51 GB V2

LPMiller

Well, bluray CAN do this stuff, the spec just isn't fully in place yet. 1.1 spec added things like the picture in picture thing; 2.0 spec will bring it right in line with HD. Long term, there is no functional difference. And tech doesn't matter, and never has, it's always been about content. When it's a console, it's the games, for movies, it's the movies. Bluray always had a studio advantage, the biggest being Disney.

Plus that article is wrong, any updateable player can do the picture in picture thing, like the PS3. The only ones who can't are the units that didn't ship with updatable firmwares.

As an aside, I went to target to pick up 3:10 to Yuma in bluray - and it was sold out. First time I've ever seen that. So was Dragon Wars. I think a lot of bluray owners are suddenly a lot less shy about buying movies thanks to warners.

DarkFury

I think what the article was trying to say is... HD-DVD had all of these features as it's "original intent" and design, while on Blu-Ray, they are more or less "after thought" features and add ons.

LPMiller

which is true, but apparently, irrelevent. But you know, people were saying the PSP would trounch the DS, because it had all those features. It also had no games at all. If you don't have the content, your tech don't mean diddly. Bluray had a huge advantage there.

Having said that, combined they are still a teeeny tiny bit of the overall market at this point anyway.

DarkFury

I'm still not diggin' on Blu-Ray... either way. I guess I'll just have to wait for the final bell on this one.

BTW... PSP is still for "older kids" while the DS is fine in it's niche. It's not like one is supposed to compete with the other as a "STANDARD" thus eliminating the loser to be tossed out and forgotten. VHS and BetaMax will forever be the true analogy.

Sony pretty much just bullied its way into the top spot by buying out the major movie producers (as well as selling their tech at extremely cut rate prices... the loss leader strategy) to come to this end. At least with VHS and BetaMax, we as CONSUMERS made the decision... in this case, CORPORATES made that decision for us.

SteveB

I'm not so sure we made the Betamax decision. As I remember it, there were few tapes available in Beta format.
I don't own a BR player so I can't speak about them from experience. I do have a HD DVD player and love it. I have gone to stores on release days to get a movie and they were sold out to so that's not just a BR experience. I was in Fry's today and they had the largest selection of HD DVDs I've seen in any store. They occupied as much shelf space as BR. Since my Toshiba XA2 does such a good job of upconverting SD DVDs I don't see much need in getting a BR player. Having said that when a good dual format player or a BR player comes out that is price competitive to HD players I will most likely get on. There are some movies that I want to see/hear in HD that are exclusive to BR.

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Airencracken

LaserDisc for life!!!

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LPMiller

Bluray outsells HDDVD discs 2 to 1, how did consumers not make the decision? HD DVD had cheaper hardware, they went bluray. So what if sony paid the movie studios, so did toshiba, it was the smart thing to do.

As to PSP/DS, I'm just pointing out how it's content that is king, not hardware.

DarkFury

Cooperation amongst the studios to PRODUCE movies in the HD-DVD format is most likely why BR sold more.

Do you have any figures as to if all the movies currently out had equal amounts of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD available to truly show which one was picked more?

What I'm saying here is that Sony manipulated the market with various agreements with the movie makers which limited how many HD-DVD discs were actually out there to sell. Pretty much, the results of 2 to 1 seem SKEWED to me in light of Sony's push on the distributors.

All Toshiba could do was lower it's prices on equipment... they couldn't force the distributors to make more movies in its format exclusively like Sony did.

BTW... I still don't see the point of your PSP/DS comments. We are talking format standards here... not just "options". DS is doing just fine as it is and probably isn't going anywhere... Nintendo does a fine job catering to its "niche" markets. Toshiba on the other had doesn't have that option as far as HD-DVD is concerned.

LPMiller

Of course sony did what they could to control content, so did toshiba. Paramount and Universal didn't sign on to HD DVD due to good will, they got paid, they got a contract. So yeah, they COULD in fact get distributer to work with them. 150Million bucks is nice pocket change.

Toshiba and sony did the exact same things. Sony spent more, but not in all cases. Disney was bluray from the get go because they wanted the larger discs and better DRM, for instance. Fox always wanted bluray, they were just waiting on the BD+ DRM scheme. It wasn't all money changing hands.

But the consumers still were the ones that made the actual purchases. In cases where they were the same, blu ray out sold HDDVD, usually by two to 1, but in the case of a massive blockbuster like Harry Potter, they were a bit closer. Though you have to keep in mind, only warners was releasing for both in any quantity, so it was actually pretty rare when they went head to head.

Year to date sales figures as of Nov 11 as per Hidef digest (where they were releases on both):

300 (Ratio: 1.89)
Superman Returns (Ratio: 1.82)
Happy Feet (Ratio: 1.65)
The Departed (Ratio: 1.64)
Ocean's 13 (Ratio: ~1.60)
Planet Earth (Ratio: 0.95)

Only Planet Earth sold more in HD. Not sure why.


http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/VideoScan/

But as you can see here, sales were pretty much on a 2 to 1 bases pretty much since the launch of bluray, which is amazing when you consider HD launched first, and has always had the cheaper hardware. It goes against conventional wisdom, except, content is king. Bluray had the content. Sony may have manipulated things, but it was the consumers that bought the stuff. The consumers selected content over cost (and a completed spec) so yeah, the consumers did make the choice. The hardcore, nerdy consumers.

Now, if you honestly think the DS is a niche market, I can understand why you aren't getting the comparison. The DS consistently sells more units per week then any other console, period. It is the number 1 console right now. It's not even remotely niche. It actually defines the word mainstream.

InfiniteNothing

Another possible final blow:
http://gizmodo.com/343730/universal-...t-says-variety

DarkFury

Sony 400 mill > Toshiba 150 mill FAIL!

Well of course consumers are gonna eat the dogfood if that is all you give them. Those of us that stayed out of the fray... didn't participate. Either way, you pretty much just restated what I said earlier about Sony buying out most of the market and then by it dumping a bunch of product (by way of cheap PS3s) and pushing a bunch of "FREE" DVDs with purchases of units then it would be dayuum near obvious that they could sell 2 to 1. Toshiba, as big as they are never had the financial muscle of a Sony to begin with.

As far as DS goes... WTH are you talkin' about? Are you only talkin' about "portables" or are you talkin' about all gaming consoles? PSP AND DS still exist alongside one another... they aren't "format" warring... so what's the point? As an adult, I'd rather have a PSP, but as a kid, the DS still is a better choice... That was my point about the "niche". I don't see a bunch of adults running around with DS... but if they are, they sure are hiding them. Hell, even my 12 year old niece has a PSP... over a DS (which I'm surprised of... considering how much a cheapskate my brother is when it comes to gaming units. My 17 y.o newphew on the other hand is still stuck playing with his PS2... since he ain't gonna spring for a PS3. )

Pretty much, we figured that the movie industry would throw in with Blu Ray over their up front support of DRM. Bad Bad for us "consumers"... yet... here fido... here's your dogfood. NOW EAT IT!!!