Perpetuating False Stereotypes

guiseppewv · 10-08-2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

New movie 'based on true story' shows WVU fans in false, ugly light

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- A movie about the first African-American to win college football's Heisman Trophy includes a dramatic scene from Morgantown, where fans hurl garbage and racial epithets at the player and his Syracuse teammates.

However, the ugly incident did not happen, according to players on both sides.

Opening Friday in theaters across the nation, "The Express" is a film about Ernie Davis, who won college football's most coveted award in 1961 and died of leukemia two years later. It stars Rob Brown as Davis and Dennis Quaid as Syracuse Coach Ben Schwartzwalder.

A review in the show business publication "Variety" says the movie's "most electrifying sequences portray Schwartzwalder's unbeaten 1959 Syracuse U. team playing West Virginia and Texas -- not exactly two bastions of racial tolerance -- with a level of racist vitriol pouring out of the stands that is a topical reminder of America's racial heart of darkness."

However, West Virginia and Syracuse did not play in Morgantown in 1959.

Davis and the Orangemen visited Mountaineer Field only once, on Oct. 22, 1960.

Dick Easterly, 69, of Tampa, Fla. was the Syracuse quarterback that day, when Davis rushed 14 times for 125 yards before a sparse crowd of 20,000.

Easterly saw "The Express" at a critics' preview last week in Tampa.

"I apologize to the people West Virginia because that did not happen," Easterly said. "I don't blame people in West Virginia for being disturbed. The scene is completely fictitious."

Now in his 62nd year of writing about WVU football, Mickey Furfari was in the press box, covering the game for the Morgantown Dominion-News.

"It's stupid," Furfari said of the scene. "It's pure fiction. The moviemakers should be absolutely ashamed.

"I am a strong believer in the First Amendment and of course it gives people the right to express themselves in truly idiotic and embarrassing ways. This is certainly an example."

Furfari noted Schwartzwalder was proud of his West Virginia roots. Schwartzwalder was born in Point Pleasant, and coached at Sistersville and Parkersburg high schools in the 1930s.

"Ben Schwartzwalder would be turning over in his grave about this," he said.

West Virginia's quarterback was Dale Evans, who's a retired high school and college coach now living in Spartanburg, S.C.

"It was 48 years ago, but something that ugly -- I would have remembered that," said Evans, 71. "I don't recall anything negative happening."

Evans, a native of Thomas in Tucker County, did recall one encounter with Davis in that 45-0 WVU loss.

Evans was hit late out of bounds and instinctively started to retaliate against the Syracuse player when Davis intervened.

"He grabbed my arm and said, "Don't lose your composure," Evans said. "Ernie was a very composed and an in-control football player."

Syracuse teammate Patrick Whelan joined Easterly at the preview last week.

Whelan, 71, of Safety Harbor, Fla., played center for the Orangemen.

"It's not important to the people who weren't there," Easterly told the St. Petersburg Times. "But we're sitting watching this thing, saying, 'Jeez, where did they get that from?'''

Clendenin High School's Donnie Young was being recruited by WVU Coach Gene Corum in 1960.

The next year, he enrolled at WVU, where he played linebacker and defensive guard.

"That's just awful," he said of the scene. "I was there in the early 1960s and there was simply nothing like that happening in Morgantown, either in athletics or otherwise.

"I've been involved in West Virginia football as a player, assistant coach and administrator for 43 years and I've never seen anything like that happen."

Cabell County extension agent and WSAZ-TV personality John Marra, 64, grew up in Morgantown and was a Morgantown High student in 1960.

"I would boycott the movie," Marra said. "I'm very embarrassed that a producer would put that type of scene in the movie."

LINK

It really irritates me when false stereotypes continue to be perpetuated by the media.

cheapie · 10-08-2008, 10:09 AM

i can tell you for sure that WV has the friendliest toll booth operators in the country! =)

DarkFury · 10-08-2008, 11:24 AM

Guess that's where the "based on a true story" comes in.

There probably was some racial tension all around, and they most likely hyped it up a bit for dramatic impact.

However, I wouldn't quite go so far as to say that nothing racial happened back then and every man tells his own story from his own perspective. Too bad Mr. Davis is not still alive to tell his own version of the story.

attgig · 10-08-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guiseppewv

"I am a strong believer in the First Amendment and of course it gives people the right to express themselves in truly idiotic and embarrassing ways. This is certainly an example."

heh. best quote.

eSDee · 10-08-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guiseppewv

LINK

It really irritates me when false stereotypes continue to be perpetuated by the media.

Do you mean Hollywood rather than the media?

ray · 10-09-2008, 02:20 PM

hollywood is great! it's all a distraction from reality, and no matter how ridiculous or over the top it is, people still enjoy paying money to see the stuff that's released.

[end shameless plug for prior employers]

guiseppewv · 10-10-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFury

There probably was some racial tension all around, and they most likely hyped it up a bit for dramatic impact.

Hyped it up a bit? How about completely re-wrote history? Jim Brown never was even at any of his games. The game against WVU wasn't even in Morgantown - it was in Syracuse. The brawl in TX didn't happen either.

guiseppewv · 10-10-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eSDee

Do you mean Hollywood rather than the media?

As far as I am concerned they are one in the same. Both = fiction with little reality.

DarkFury · 10-10-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guiseppewv

Hyped it up a bit? How about completely re-wrote history? Jim Brown never was even at any of his games. The game against WVU wasn't even in Morgantown - it was in Syracuse. The brawl in TX didn't happen either.

This film most likely will not be considered a "documentary"... therefore the lasting impact is probably negligible.

Either way, I have not seen the film... so I really can't comment much on its content.

guiseppewv · 10-11-2008, 07:12 AM

You are probably right but it still

me off and the state of WV, in general, is boycotting the movie. I have no problems with people claiming a movie is based on a real life person and then taking creative liberties to make a story more interesting but re-writing of history just to try to highlight racial tensions is ridiculous when you completely re-write history.

DarkFury · 10-11-2008, 10:39 AM

Well honestly, isn't alot of "history" is re-written from the perspective of the "writers"?

Yes, they changed a few events... however the sentiment of the time was in fact true, and even if the people who got finger pointed in the film didn't do it, there were alot of folks back then who did.

It's not a complete re-write of history, but mostly an "edit" and a paraphrase of history.

ArkiStan · 10-13-2008, 04:00 PM

Some random thoughts on prejudice:

1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheapie

i can tell you for sure that WV has the friendliest toll booth operators in the country! =)

You are making an assumption about a whole group without personal knowledge. Technically, that is also prejudice and false stereotyping, since there must be at least one slightly bitchy toll booth operator that is less friendly than a certain NY/NJ toll person somewhere in the whole state of WV. Is positive prejudice also something we should be refraining from, since in essence you are not judging someone for who he/she really is but rather based on a preconception?
(I have no problem with your comment cheapie. It just made me curious.)

2. I don't believe humans are inherently evil, but I think it is human nature to be prejudiced, not necessarily in a hateful way, against others that are different. Like there are many people in the US who are brought up in racist environments that perpetuate that even further, I believe the unbiased neutral stance that many other good Americans display is also a trait that has largely been possible through decades of positive training and conditioning among a mix of a diverse group of ethnicities.

3. Nowadays, not being racist is just as much training in a certain protocol of "politically correct" language and mannerisms as it is about truly believing all skin colors are equal. Can you be a non-racist and still joke about different races and their stereotypes in politically incorrect language? This issue always interests me.

guiseppewv · 10-13-2008, 07:35 PM

I think in #2 you are speaking about xenophobia. Just about everyone has xenophobia to a certain degree but that does not mean they are racist, in my opinion.

Re: #3 - if you ask most people, including the media, they will say no. I disagree. I think you can joke about stereotypes without being racist and some comedians pull it off well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFury

Well honestly, isn't alot of "history" is re-written from the perspective of the "writers"?

Yes, they changed a few events... however the sentiment of the time was in fact true, and even if the people who got finger pointed in the film didn't do it, there were alot of folks back then who did.

It's not a complete re-write of history, but mostly an "edit" and a paraphrase of history.

The writers have no perspective if they are re-writing history. How is it possibly OK to incorrectly drag one group, in this case West Virginians, through the mud because you want to make a point about racism in the past? So, it is OK to be prejudiced and falsely stereotype a group of people in order to get your point across?

DarkFury · 10-14-2008, 07:20 AM

I'm sure that they probably didn't put THAT much thought into it (as far as West Virginia was concerned) when they made the movie..

And honestly, outside of WV the watchers of the movie probably don't give a hoot.

Your protest probably has been noted by them for the NEXT movie that they make.

Now honestly, are you really showing a bias as to this being against West Virginia" or are you downplaying the overall significance of the movie? As I mentioned before, this is just a movie... not a documentary, therefore the movie's creator did take some liberties in portraying the story.

If you want to see a general list of all the "inconsistencies" versus the true stuff depicted in the movie, then I suggest you go look at the list provided here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...=merron/081010

Yes, the WVU game was a fabrication, and the author of that piece states that some of the input for the motivation of it may have come from Jim Brown's previous experience with that particular team in the creation of that part of the film, however overall, that one scene does not make the whole movie a "piece of fiction".

Yes, there was racism that was rampant during those times and there are accounts of that being true based on some of the folks who were there at the time, however if your only focus is on that one fictional scene in WV rather than the overall story of the movie, then I guess there pretty much nothing that can be said to alleviate the negative feelings that have been generated due to that one stray from the historical accuracy of Mr. Davis' legacy.

Just keep telling yourself... "THIS IS NOT A DOCUMENTARY" and watch the rest of it for the story that is being told.

cheapie · 10-15-2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkiStan

Some random thoughts on prejudice:

1.
You are making an assumption about a whole group without personal knowledge. Technically, that is also prejudice and false stereotyping, since there must be at least one slightly bitchy toll booth operator that is less friendly than a certain NY/NJ toll person somewhere in the whole state of WV.

what? when you make a statement like i did, it's understood that, while you are making a generalization, it's obviously not true for each and every person.

ArkiStan · 10-17-2008, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheapie

what? when you make a statement like i did, it's understood that, while you are making a generalization, it's obviously not true for each and every person.

Couldn't you say the same for negative stereotypes? Even people who spew racial stereotypes don't REALLY believe every single Asian female driver will get you killed and every black person's favorite food is fried chicken.

(once again, cheapie, I'm not challenging your comment in any way. I'm just using it to ask people what they think about a totally random question that popped up in my head)

mojo · 10-17-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkiStan

Couldn't you say the same for negative stereotypes? Even people who spew racial stereotypes don't REALLY believe every single Asian female driver will get you killed and every black person's favorite food is fried chicken.

(once again, cheapie, I'm not challenging your comment in any way. I'm just using it to ask people what they think about a totally random question that popped up in my head)

i'm not sure you can say the same for negative stereotypes.

just TRY posting a question online regarding why a certain group or race talks during movies more than others. you'll be accused of being a racist and prejudiced, altho you could very well be asking something as an observation.

personally, i think a lot of stereotypes are complete crap and that some others have validity. but i doubt that we dare try to find out which is which because of the political climate.

10-14-2008, 07:20 AM	#14
DarkFury Secretary of the Navy Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Chillin' N Da 'Hood Posts: 34,997	I'm sure that they probably didn't put THAT much thought into it (as far as West Virginia was concerned) when they made the movie.. And honestly, outside of WV the watchers of the movie probably don't give a hoot. Your protest probably has been noted by them for the NEXT movie that they make. Now honestly, are you really showing a bias as to this being against West Virginia" or are you downplaying the overall significance of the movie? As I mentioned before, this is just a movie... not a documentary, therefore the movie's creator did take some liberties in portraying the story. If you want to see a general list of all the "inconsistencies" versus the true stuff depicted in the movie, then I suggest you go look at the list provided here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...=merron/081010 Yes, the WVU game was a fabrication, and the author of that piece states that some of the input for the motivation of it may have come from Jim Brown's previous experience with that particular team in the creation of that part of the film, however overall, that one scene does not make the whole movie a "piece of fiction". Yes, there was racism that was rampant during those times and there are accounts of that being true based on some of the folks who were there at the time, however if your only focus is on that one fictional scene in WV rather than the overall story of the movie, then I guess there pretty much nothing that can be said to alleviate the negative feelings that have been generated due to that one stray from the historical accuracy of Mr. Davis' legacy. Just keep telling yourself... "THIS IS NOT A DOCUMENTARY" and watch the rest of it for the story that is being told. Last edited by DarkFury : 10-14-2008 at 11:28 AM.

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10-08-2008, 10:09 AM	#2
cheapie Chief of Naval Operations Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: raising my pimp hand strong Posts: 13,038	i can tell you for sure that WV has the friendliest toll booth operators in the country! =) __________________ 70% of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Bob Sanders

10-08-2008, 11:24 AM	#3
DarkFury Secretary of the Navy Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Chillin' N Da 'Hood Posts: 34,997	Guess that's where the "based on a true story" comes in. There probably was some racial tension all around, and they most likely hyped it up a bit for dramatic impact. However, I wouldn't quite go so far as to say that nothing racial happened back then and every man tells his own story from his own perspective. Too bad Mr. Davis is not still alive to tell his own version of the story. __________________ DarkFury's Pimptopia - Don't Hate the Playa, Hate the Game! Home of the Original OG Pimp (accept NO imitations)

10-09-2008, 02:20 PM	#6
ray captain awesome Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,054	hollywood is great! it's all a distraction from reality, and no matter how ridiculous or over the top it is, people still enjoy paying money to see the stuff that's released. [end shameless plug for prior employers]

10-11-2008, 07:12 AM	#10
guiseppewv Admiral Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: East coast Posts: 7,116	You are probably right but it still me off and the state of WV, in general, is boycotting the movie. I have no problems with people claiming a movie is based on a real life person and then taking creative liberties to make a story more interesting but re-writing of history just to try to highlight racial tensions is ridiculous when you completely re-write history.

10-11-2008, 10:39 AM	#11
DarkFury Secretary of the Navy Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Chillin' N Da 'Hood Posts: 34,997	Well honestly, isn't alot of "history" is re-written from the perspective of the "writers"? Yes, they changed a few events... however the sentiment of the time was in fact true, and even if the people who got finger pointed in the film didn't do it, there were alot of folks back then who did. It's not a complete re-write of history, but mostly an "edit" and a paraphrase of history.

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