VTGreg

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060531/alcoa_labor.html?.v=4

I'm doing an ERP implementation at one of the sites with the master agreement and must say that things have been very interesting over the past month. The entire process has cemented my anti-union beliefs.

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InfiniteNothing

Some unions are bad. Some are good. It just depends on how they are run. Unions do deserve fair treatment by the law though.

dbax791

What is an example of a good union?

Granted about 50-70 years ago when people worked in inhumane conditions the union movement was useful.

But crap. Like VT I had to work on a payroll system for a union job at a mine. The nitpicks of the union contracts are crazy. For example, if a union member is asked to work between 12 and 1pm, he/she is paid double-time and must get free hot coffee. Seriously, that is in the contract. So guess what? the amount of workers working between 12 and 1 skyrocketed. Imagine that.

That mine is now out of business and looks like the union did not help much.

Don't LA dockworkers make like 110K/yr? And GM layed off a ton of employees because $1500 of the price of a new car goes to pay for employee health insurance.

Supply and demand will eventually work itself out. Whether it is shipping jobs overseas, hiring illegals, or downsizing. You can't artificially increase a wage for more than a job is worth.

zippyjuan

Some people complain that unions keep wages artificially high. Others (sometimes the same people) complain that illegal immigrants keep wages artificially low. Higher union wages help raise wages and benefits for other people too. Not all union workers get $100,000 a year. Few do. Executive pay can be even more perverse, but the blame seems to be put on the workers who actually create the wealth through their efforts. There are good and bad union and non union companies. You only hear the bad ones on the news. It is just as easy to say corporations are bad.


The head of Alcoa, Alain J.P. Belda, earned about $3 million last year and the rest of the board also were paid around $1 million. He holds $35 million in company stock. His total compensation was about $3.5 million ( http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/12/ME1Y.html ) The company reported a profit of about $5 billion and a profit margin of almost 6%. Quarterly earnings were up over 133% over same period a year ago. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=AA

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cheapie

that's not much for a $35b company.

the UAW rules for the local that was at the plant i was at a few years ago were crazy. they had so many stewards whos sole job was to make sure none of their employees had any issue that i couldn't believe the place actually made money. and then there were tons of other employees that had X % of their work day doing steward work as well.

i think the unions did, and STILL do have a place in an environment where they would have little voice otherwise. but the UAW constantly fough safety and efficiency improvements. well guess what....the jobs are moving to other plants that have higher safety and productivity numbers. sigh

Airencracken

This union worker(?) doesn't get 110,000 a year.

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cheapie

i have no problem with workers getting paid. and paid well. but ONLY if their work skills justify it. that's why i don't think a lot of the exec compensation levels are fair either.

rewarding union members mostly through seniority rather than actual because of the value they add to the process is one reason japan is rocking and we're sucking so badly.

Jeffbx

It's actually closer to $3000/car. Right now GM has more retirees that are receiving full medical coverage than full time employees. Many of them have been retired longer than they worked.

Markel

Such as making me pay more for the things I buy?

OK, I'll turn off the sarcasm. I realize that you were saying that a non-union employer might pay higher wages that they otherwise would because of the wages paid at the union jobs. However, someone ends up having to pay for all of the wages and benefits that the unions try to extort out of the employers.

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