TiVo: Remember that thread?

[ray]

I recall a previous thread where people were inquiring about TiVo. I had mentioned that if cable companies began pushing their own DVRs, that TiVo would start losing ground. Here's an article from today regarding the situation.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/031204/tech_tivo_stocks_1.html

Tivo's stock plummeted over 10% today on the news.

[Cubsfan]

I think that in order to survive, TiVo will have to put a lot more effort in going down the same path as they've already started with DirecTivo. We know that cable companies will want to start integrating these into their Digital Cable offerings, so I think that TiVo needs to work to become the provider for integrating into those boxes.

Either that, or they need to have some offering that the cable companies' boxes don't have. Whether that's HDTV, commercial skipping (Love that on my ReplayTV, but I don't think it's going to happen) more storage, or whatever. There needs to be a good reason to go out of your way to get a TiVo instead of using the company's option.

[ray]

Originally posted by Cubsfan
I think that in order to survive, TiVo will have to put a lot more effort in going down the same path as they've already started with DirecTivo. We know that cable companies will want to start integrating these into their Digital Cable offerings, so I think that TiVo needs to work to become the provider for integrating into those boxes.

Either that, or they need to have some offering that the cable companies' boxes don't have. Whether that's HDTV, commercial skipping (Love that on my ReplayTV, but I don't think it's going to happen) more storage, or whatever. There needs to be a good reason to go out of your way to get a TiVo instead of using the company's option.

Exactly. I think with many of these cable companies looking to improve their bottom line, they are looking at things like marketing their own DVRs and possibly offering a tivo-like subscription based service. This is where TiVo is going to get hammered. Why use a 3rd party product, when we have our own?

Since News Corp. is finalizing their buyout of DirecTV, the rumor is that they will not be renewing their contract with TiVo. Instead they will be pushing their own product(s) and will only offer tech support to current TiVo users. This will obviously kill TiVo because the bulk of their customers are DirecTV customers.

The problem with ReplayTV is that it allows viewers to bypass commercials, as you have stated. The makers of ReplayTV are being sued by the TV industry and quite possibly by companies that pay a hefty fee for television advertising.

I think TiVo is one of the best new tech products in the past couple years. The "concept" is brilliant, but the competition is going to be growing shortly.

[LPMiller]

And again, the fact that a board member of DirectTV is now on the board of Tivo makes that less likely. If you already have an installed base of 200,000 users - most of them brand new thanks to the 99 dollar directTV box - switching to another service, even your own, isn't very effective. Remember too that Hughes, which is DirectTV, actually makes those tivo units, and the new one that holds 100 hours. I just don't see a changeover happening soon. Way down the road, maybe, but more likely, Newscorp would just by Tivo. I mean, at 6 bucks a share it's not like they are expensive.

[ray]

Originally posted by LPMiller
And again, the fact that a board member of DirectTV is now on the board of Tivo makes that less likely. If you already have an installed base of 200,000 users - most of them brand new thanks to the 99 dollar directTV box - switching to another service, even your own, isn't very effective. Remember too that Hughes, which is DirectTV, actually makes those tivo units, and the new one that holds 100 hours. I just don't see a changeover happening soon. Way down the road, maybe, but more likely, Newscorp would just by Tivo. I mean, at 6 bucks a share it's not like they are expensive.

I think in the previous thread I had mentioned that News Corp could just give subscribers new hardware. I would like to retract that statement.

However, I don't think News Corp will necessarily stop technical support for the current DirecTiVo units, but I do think that they will stop offering them to new customers. It may take a year or two for them to release their own branded product, but I really do see them offering their own DVRs coupled with the DirecTV dishes. Again, it just doesn't make sense to me why they would want a third party taking in that revenue, when they could be pushing their own product(s) to new customers and subscribers.

I have a TiVo unit with my digital cable. Two separate entities. Right now I am happy with the setup, but if Adelphia cable decided to release their own DVR with a subscription at a discounted or free rate, it is definitely something I would have to consider from a consumer standpoint.

[Cubsfan]

Originally posted by lilbigblue
I have a TiVo unit with my digital cable. Two separate entities. Right now I am happy with the setup, but if Adelphia cable decided to release their own DVR with a subscription at a discounted or free rate, it is definitely something I would have to consider from a consumer standpoint.

Exactly what I'm thinking. I'm have a ReplayTV with Comcast. Comcast is going to do exactly that, and now I'm going to have to decide.
http://news.com.com/2100-1033-5113132.html

[cheapchinese]

sorry this might sound stupid
but i always thought recording programs are illegal??
wasn't there a FCC ruling on that before saying that it was??
or I'm mistaken

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by cheapchinese
sorry this might sound stupid
but i always thought recording programs are illegal??
wasn't there a FCC ruling on that before saying that it was??
or I'm mistaken

Then someone needs to arrest my VCR for aiding and abetting.

[ray]

Originally posted by cheapchinese
sorry this might sound stupid
but i always thought recording programs are illegal??
wasn't there a FCC ruling on that before saying that it was??
or I'm mistaken

Fair use laws allow consumers to record programs for personal use, not commercial use.

However, there is a gray area between analog and digital works. Analog is definitely covered by Fair Use, but there are debates whether or not Digital works are included in the original Fair Use laws.

ReplayTV is being sued because it records programs without the commercials. This is technically illegal because it bypasses portions of the regular "programming" that viewers would normally view if they watched in real-time. Since TiVo records the full length of programming, it is not illegal.

[gear02]

I just got cox digital cable and they were peddling their on DVRs and telling me that tivos were incompatible with their system, which was utter bulls*it after getting my tivo up and running in 10 minutes. It's crap like that that's killing Tivo. The cable companies have too much leverage in this manner.

Also, I never touched the DVR they gave me (I told them to take it back) so I don't know, but is it comparable to Tivo's features?

[ray]

Originally posted by gear02
I just got cox digital cable and they were peddling their on DVRs and telling me that tivos were incompatible with their system, which was utter bulls*it after getting my tivo up and running in 10 minutes. It's crap like that that's killing Tivo. The cable companies have too much leverage in this manner.

Also, I never touched the DVR they gave me (I told them to take it back) so I don't know, but is it comparable to Tivo's features?

From what I understand, a DVR that you can buy from Bestbuy or some other retailer is just a piece of equipment with a hard drive in it. Many of these units include a DVD burner as well. Now, TiVo service is interesting because you can have the unit automatically record shows that it THINKS you like. As times goes by and you begin rating more and more shows, TiVo will begin to learn your viewing behavior and will adjust it's automatic recordings.

The similarities between a standalone DVD Recorder with built in hard drive and a TiVo unit is that you can use both to program to record specific shows in the future, much like a VCR. Basically, you're paying TiVo for their novelty of picking shows automatically, downloading your cable provider's channel information, so you never miss an episode due to time changes or cancellations.

Once the regular DVRs drop in price, I will probably get rid of my TiVo so I don't have to pay the monthly subscription fee.

[ray]

Originally posted by chosenfool
comcast already came out with the Scientific Atlanta 8000 digital box. its got a built in hard drive to record 30-50hrs. Its also dual-tuner - you can record one channel and watch another. actually you can record 2 at the same time and watch a 3rd, i think. not sure if the 3rd is already whats been recorded or live TV. it also makes non-PIP TVs PIP-capable. the only thing it doesnt do is record Hi-def programs. but i think thats coming out with a future SA 8xxx box.
Comcast here uses 2 systems - SA and motorola/General Instruments. The GI DVR (6000 or 6200) wont come out til 2nd Qtr of 2004, but it will come out with hi-def recording capabilities. cant wait for that to come out (my area is in a GI system).

I would love to see a DVR that allows me to record one channel and watch another. That dual tuner feature would make it all the worthwhile to buy a replacement piece of hardware. I would even pay for some kind of subscription just to have that flexibility.

"all i want for christmas, is you"

[avlena]

Originally posted by lilbigblue


I would love to see a DVR that allows me to record one channel and watch another. That dual tuner feature would make it all the worthwhile to buy a replacement piece of hardware. I would even pay for some kind of subscription just to have that flexibility.

"all i want for christmas, is you"

I believe the DirecTiVo has that... I always thought it was a common feature?

[ray]

Originally posted by avlena


I believe the DirecTiVo has that... I always thought it was a common feature?

Goddamn it. after i justify not going with DirecTV you tell me they have the dual tuner function. !@##%^@#^@#$

I'm using an old school model of TiVo, so perhaps that's why it's not compatible...and since it works, i've been too lazy to look around for a new unit.

[VTGreg]

Anyone seen or used any of Pinnacle's PCTV products? Their line allows you to turn your PC into a DVR. I was actually considering going this way instead of purchasing the DVR. They also just released a new product called Showcenter which is along the same lines as the PCTV line and has wireless capabilites. Just curious if anyone had experience with any of these products.