Serial ATA Hard drive question

zippyjuan · 11-19-2008, 03:49 PM

I have most of the components for my computer (the power supply is still on its way- according to tracking from NewEgg it is coming from New Jersey and is in Philly today- the rest shipped from CA and got here in about a day).

Anyhow, I have used IDE or ATA drives in the past and I am reading my manual for the motherboard and it says:

Quote:

You must install the Windows XP Service Pack 1 before using the Serial ATA hard disc drives. The Serial ATA RAID feature is available only if you are using WIndows XP or later version.

So actually two questions. First, does this only apply to if I am trying to use a RAID set-up (I am starting out with one drive but would like to stick in one of my IDE drives to first copy some data (like my photos) to the new drive and also for a backup drive). This would make it extremely difficult to install an OS if this is the case for non-RAID set-ups.

Which brings me to the second question. Can I have a SATA drive for a main drive and an IDE for a secondary?

One more. Does it matter which drive (my DVD burner is also SATA) is plugged into which SATA port on the motherboard- ie should your first boot source (usually the DVD drive) be connected to SATA plug #1 on the motherboard? Usually you can set that in BIOS anyways. This thing has room for something like eight SATA connections. USBs all over the place too.

Thanks for the help!

Devhux · 11-19-2008, 04:14 PM

Firstly, if your Windows XP CD doesn't have SP1 slipstreamed into it, you won't be able to access more than 128GB during install. Heck, to make it easier, I'd slipstream SP3 into your original XP disc (you can do this using a program like nLite).

There's also the issue that XP setup may not see your SATA drive upon installation -- after all, SATA came out after XP did. In your BIOS, you can try setting the SATA ports to emulate IDE in this case (each BIOS words this differently), and that sometimes works. If it doesn't, you'll need a floppy disk to install the drivers (or, you can slipstream them in using nLite as well).

As for which ports to use, it doesn't really matter -- the BIOS will let you change the boot priority. Oh, and you can have an IDE drive as a secondary drive -- SATA & IDE can easily co-exist.

zippyjuan · 11-19-2008, 06:19 PM

Thanks. I will check out the link. That could make things a lot easier. Now I am starting to wonder if I have a big enough power supply on order. It is an Antec Earthwatts 500w http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371007 so it should be pretty much what it says. The video card I have recommends a 400w supply while I found in the motherboard manual it recommends a 600w supply for a fully loaded system. More and more reviews give power consumption figures and I did not see any which indicated over 400w at peak load (they used similar video cards and had a raid array with two hard drives and Vista while I for now will have XP plus one hard drive and one DVD drive. I should be OK I think. I also have a lower end processor (compared to the ones currently released for that motherboard). Video card wants TWO lines connected to it. It has a fan and big heatsink on it too. That takes up the width of two slots total.

The heatsink on the processor is a huge fan and grills. Lots bigger than the passive AMD setup. No IDE cables means much more room in the case. That one is an Antec 300 series- a mid-tower with lots of room and easy to work with. The power supply goes in the bottom instead of the top. A 120mm fan on top and the back with two large openings for 120mm fans in front too if you want. I don't think I will need one for there. Just the openings should let lots of air in and the other push air out. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042

I got all the hardware connected that I could today hooked up. Now waiting on the power supply. ETA is the 20th. I had today and tomorrow off so I was hoping to be able to work on it but waiting will be OK. A chance to get things ready like this slipstream CD. They don't recommend installing the MB drivers until at least XP SP2 is installed. I have already downloaded to CD the Service Packs 2& 3. Formatting 500gb could take a while too- I can let that run overnight whenever I get going.

Devhux · 11-19-2008, 06:25 PM

You shouldn't have a power issue -- I have a Core 2 Q6600 running at 3.6GHz, ATI Radeon HD3870X2 (essentially 2 video cards), 5 hard drives, and a Cool-It Freezone Elite TEC chiller that draws about 400w under full load (that cooler uses 100-120w on its own).

Just don't add a second video card and you should be OK.

zippyjuan · 11-20-2008, 02:19 AM

After more research and thinking I am seriously considering getting a OEM copy of Vista. OEM does not have a box or booklet (not useful anyways) and costs less than half the retail version (about $100). It will have the drivers I need to get my new comp going so I won't have to worry about all the potential problems of it not recognizing the SATA drives or possibly even the CPU. My computer will be able to handle Vista easily. What don't you get with OEM? Support (retail only gives you 90 days anyways) and supposedly not being able to transfer it to another machine (this one is about seven years old- I should have the next one a while too by they there will be another OS available). You can sometimes convince them to allow the transfer too ("My motherboard died and I had to get a new one"- the OS is supposed to be tied to the MB).

It will make the installation much easier than trying to slipstream everything- which still might not work. The power supply could be another couple of days (last I checked it was in Philly on its way to San Deigo) and an OS could get here by then so it should not slow things down and could actually speed them up. Sometimes it is worth it to spend a bit more money. I am already spending this much. I think I will stay with 32 bit- some things still have problems with 64 bit. Time to visit NewEgg again. Mmmm. Even comes with free shipping!

Order Placed.

Devhux · 11-20-2008, 03:26 AM

In all fairness, I'm running Vista 64-bit with my system, and it's running great. Although I have 8GB of RAM, there are several virtualized operating systems vying for that same space too (Server 2003 & 3 Windows XP VMs). Even with this running, Windows Vista is handling whatever I throw at it easily.

Just be aware that some things have changed, and I don't think you'll have a big problem with it.

johnnymk · 11-20-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuruX

Firstly, if your Windows XP CD doesn't have SP1 slipstreamed into it, you won't be able to access more than 128GB during install. .

I have a 5 year old computer with XP Pro and 1 GB of memory (no service packs). Are you saying that my computer hasn't been accessing more than 128 MB of memory in the last 5 years?

Maarchk · 11-20-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnymk

I have a 5 year old computer with XP Pro and 1 GB of memory (no service packs). Are you saying that my computer hasn't been accessing more than 128 MB of memory in the last 5 years?

GB, not MB.

It's like fat 32 and ntsc. XP before SP1 had issues seeing more than 128 gb of data on one drive... So having a 200 gb drive meant seeing 128.

No relation to memory.

or at least memory in terms of the short term stuff.

attgig · 11-20-2008, 11:04 AM

and if you do go with xp, i'd stay away from sp3. I've heard way too many problems regarding sp3.

johnnymk · 11-20-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maarchk

GB, not MB.

It's like fat 32 and ntsc. XP before SP1 had issues seeing more than 128 gb of data on one drive... So having a 200 gb drive meant seeing 128.

No relation to memory.

or at least memory in terms of the short term stuff.

Sorry, I should have read it better. Funny, but I haven't had any problems reading 500 GB external hard drives.

zippyjuan · 11-20-2008, 02:27 PM

Power supply actually came today. It took a day to go from New Jersey to Philly but from there it coverded a lot of ground fast- Maryland, Alburquerque, Las Vegas, and Sylmar (where is that?) and San Diego in less than 24 hours. I got it hooked up (only glitch was forgetting the power supply connection for the CPU- oops!) and it all seems to work fine. No OS but I can get into BIOS where all the components are listed except the video card (there is no place I found for that in BIOS anyways). I changed the boot sequence to start with the CD/DVD but left everything else to their presets. I have an old monitor I hooked up and bought a cheap mouse and keyboard so that I can work on that while still using this one. The keyboard is silicone and can be rolled up- cost about $10. Kinda cool. No verification shipping the OS yet but they confirm the order and billed my card.

The motherboard has an interesting feature- a quickstart thing which can open within five seconds of powering on. You can do simple things like use the internet or look at photos without loading the OS. That pops up already- even though I have nothing I can presently use it for.

zippyjuan · 11-20-2008, 02:37 PM

Cool. Since I have the computer together I decided to just try to put in XP- with at this point the simple goal of formatting the hard drive. It is working and recognized both the CD drive and the HDD. I think that is because in BIOS you can set it to IDE or SATA and I left it to IDE so I could have stayed with XP but will install Vista when it comes. It is formatting the drive right now.

Devhux · 11-20-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnymk

Sorry, I should have read it better. Funny, but I haven't had any problems reading 500 GB external hard drives.

If I recall correctly, it's a flaw with the NT-based setup routine that can't access more than 128GB. Once everything's installed, it generally is OK (and relies more on the BIOS for dealing with larger drives).

Maarchk · 11-24-2008, 10:42 PM

ZJ,
Sylmar is where one of the fires was. It's north of the burbank airport by like 2 miles. it's where they sort the packages that fly into socal because they fly into Burbank Airport. Then it probably took a truck down to SD.

11-19-2008, 04:14 PM	#2
Devhux Rear Admiral Lower Half Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Calgary Alberta Canada Posts: 2,511	Firstly, if your Windows XP CD doesn't have SP1 slipstreamed into it, you won't be able to access more than 128GB during install. Heck, to make it easier, I'd slipstream SP3 into your original XP disc (you can do this using a program like nLite). There's also the issue that XP setup may not see your SATA drive upon installation -- after all, SATA came out after XP did. In your BIOS, you can try setting the SATA ports to emulate IDE in this case (each BIOS words this differently), and that sometimes works. If it doesn't, you'll need a floppy disk to install the drivers (or, you can slipstream them in using nLite as well). As for which ports to use, it doesn't really matter -- the BIOS will let you change the boot priority. Oh, and you can have an IDE drive as a secondary drive -- SATA & IDE can easily co-exist. __________________ 0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3

11-19-2008, 06:19 PM	#3
zippyjuan Picture of the Day Guru Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 8,756	Thanks. I will check out the link. That could make things a lot easier. Now I am starting to wonder if I have a big enough power supply on order. It is an Antec Earthwatts 500w http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371007 so it should be pretty much what it says. The video card I have recommends a 400w supply while I found in the motherboard manual it recommends a 600w supply for a fully loaded system. More and more reviews give power consumption figures and I did not see any which indicated over 400w at peak load (they used similar video cards and had a raid array with two hard drives and Vista while I for now will have XP plus one hard drive and one DVD drive. I should be OK I think. I also have a lower end processor (compared to the ones currently released for that motherboard). Video card wants TWO lines connected to it. It has a fan and big heatsink on it too. That takes up the width of two slots total. The heatsink on the processor is a huge fan and grills. Lots bigger than the passive AMD setup. No IDE cables means much more room in the case. That one is an Antec 300 series- a mid-tower with lots of room and easy to work with. The power supply goes in the bottom instead of the top. A 120mm fan on top and the back with two large openings for 120mm fans in front too if you want. I don't think I will need one for there. Just the openings should let lots of air in and the other push air out. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042 I got all the hardware connected that I could today hooked up. Now waiting on the power supply. ETA is the 20th. I had today and tomorrow off so I was hoping to be able to work on it but waiting will be OK. A chance to get things ready like this slipstream CD. They don't recommend installing the MB drivers until at least XP SP2 is installed. I have already downloaded to CD the Service Packs 2& 3. Formatting 500gb could take a while too- I can let that run overnight whenever I get going. Last edited by zippyjuan : 11-19-2008 at 06:25 PM.

11-20-2008, 02:19 AM	#5
zippyjuan Picture of the Day Guru Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 8,756	After more research and thinking I am seriously considering getting a OEM copy of Vista. OEM does not have a box or booklet (not useful anyways) and costs less than half the retail version (about $100). It will have the drivers I need to get my new comp going so I won't have to worry about all the potential problems of it not recognizing the SATA drives or possibly even the CPU. My computer will be able to handle Vista easily. What don't you get with OEM? Support (retail only gives you 90 days anyways) and supposedly not being able to transfer it to another machine (this one is about seven years old- I should have the next one a while too by they there will be another OS available). You can sometimes convince them to allow the transfer too ("My motherboard died and I had to get a new one"- the OS is supposed to be tied to the MB). It will make the installation much easier than trying to slipstream everything- which still might not work. The power supply could be another couple of days (last I checked it was in Philly on its way to San Deigo) and an OS could get here by then so it should not slow things down and could actually speed them up. Sometimes it is worth it to spend a bit more money. I am already spending this much. I think I will stay with 32 bit- some things still have problems with 64 bit. Time to visit NewEgg again. Mmmm. Even comes with free shipping! Order Placed. Last edited by zippyjuan : 11-20-2008 at 02:29 AM.

11-20-2008, 11:04 AM	#9
attgig Chief of Naval Operations Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: the burbs of baltimore Posts: 11,924	and if you do go with xp, i'd stay away from sp3. I've heard way too many problems regarding sp3. __________________

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11-19-2008, 06:25 PM	#4
Devhux Rear Admiral Lower Half Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Calgary Alberta Canada Posts: 2,511	You shouldn't have a power issue -- I have a Core 2 Q6600 running at 3.6GHz, ATI Radeon HD3870X2 (essentially 2 video cards), 5 hard drives, and a Cool-It Freezone Elite TEC chiller that draws about 400w under full load (that cooler uses 100-120w on its own). Just don't add a second video card and you should be OK.

11-20-2008, 03:26 AM	#6
Devhux Rear Admiral Lower Half Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Calgary Alberta Canada Posts: 2,511	In all fairness, I'm running Vista 64-bit with my system, and it's running great. Although I have 8GB of RAM, there are several virtualized operating systems vying for that same space too (Server 2003 & 3 Windows XP VMs). Even with this running, Windows Vista is handling whatever I throw at it easily. Just be aware that some things have changed, and I don't think you'll have a big problem with it.

11-20-2008, 02:27 PM	#11
zippyjuan Picture of the Day Guru Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 8,756	Power supply actually came today. It took a day to go from New Jersey to Philly but from there it coverded a lot of ground fast- Maryland, Alburquerque, Las Vegas, and Sylmar (where is that?) and San Diego in less than 24 hours. I got it hooked up (only glitch was forgetting the power supply connection for the CPU- oops!) and it all seems to work fine. No OS but I can get into BIOS where all the components are listed except the video card (there is no place I found for that in BIOS anyways). I changed the boot sequence to start with the CD/DVD but left everything else to their presets. I have an old monitor I hooked up and bought a cheap mouse and keyboard so that I can work on that while still using this one. The keyboard is silicone and can be rolled up- cost about $10. Kinda cool. No verification shipping the OS yet but they confirm the order and billed my card. The motherboard has an interesting feature- a quickstart thing which can open within five seconds of powering on. You can do simple things like use the internet or look at photos without loading the OS. That pops up already- even though I have nothing I can presently use it for.

11-20-2008, 02:37 PM	#12
zippyjuan Picture of the Day Guru Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 8,756	Cool. Since I have the computer together I decided to just try to put in XP- with at this point the simple goal of formatting the hard drive. It is working and recognized both the CD drive and the HDD. I think that is because in BIOS you can set it to IDE or SATA and I left it to IDE so I could have stayed with XP but will install Vista when it comes. It is formatting the drive right now.

11-24-2008, 10:42 PM	#14
Maarchk Rear Admiral Upper Half Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Where the east meets the west. Posts: 3,066	ZJ, Sylmar is where one of the fires was. It's north of the burbank airport by like 2 miles. it's where they sort the packages that fly into socal because they fly into Burbank Airport. Then it probably took a truck down to SD.

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