Windsor

I don't know how many of you have heardo these things, but they have a setup different than the QWERTY ones which were designed with TYPEWRITERS in mind which are rather outdated now.

I've read up a bit on Dvorak ones and they seemed interesting since the layout was created for PC which don't have problems such as rods getting in the way of each other, and are supposed to be more efficient. Anyone heard much about 'em, where to get 'em cheap?

Ladogaboy

I heard that there was another format for the keyboard, but I've never heard of dvorak before...

The reason I think qwerty will still win out though, is because it won't become outdated until the English language changes. If you'll notice, the home row keys on a qwerty keyboard are comprised of the most used letters in the English language, so, in theory, it is more efficient because your fingers don't have to walk as far.

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Dave_7

Actually... the QWERTY design was created to SLOW the fast typists. Like Windsor said, it was developed in the typewriter days.

Part of QWERTY's design was to releive the problem of "arm-jamming" in the old typewriters. QWERTY slowed people down just enough to keep the arms in the typewriter from jamming together... which would REALLY slow things down. It moved the letters like T L N S and the vowels apart.




Dave.

Ladogaboy

Yes, they are spread out, but if you look at the setup of the keys, the most used letters are all in close proximity they home row keys... also, yes, you are less likely to be hitting certain letters at the same time, but that is not just for keeping typewriter arms apart. Say, for instance that you are typing "the" (the most used word in the English language: first, your left index finger hits the t, then your right index finger hits the h, and then your left middle finger hits the e. Imagine how much slower it would be to type if one or two fingers had to do the work that 3 did?

Honestly, I've heard it go both ways... I don't have experience with the dvorak keyboards, but I've heard some people say that they are faster, while others say they aren't. Personally, I've been trained on qwerty, and wouldn't change, and I know that is true for a lot of others as well. It's kind of like not wanting to change horses while crossing the river. People are used to qwertys now, and I don't think that dvorak will ever have a chance of catching up. Schools these days have a hard enough time teaching qwerty to kids, imagine if they had to learn two formats.

Dave_7

It had to do with the placement of the arms in the typewriter.

Wouldn't it be fastest (on a computer) to type and to learn if "T" "H" and "E" were in the positions of the current "J" "K" and "L"? And other other commonly used letters in words like "and" would be placed on the current "A" "S" and "D" positions?

Sure it would... but this positioning wouldn't fly in the "hammer-style" typewriters because the arms would jam up.

Hence... QWERTY.





Dave.

Ladogaboy

Not for me. I'm sure the hammer style keyboards had a lot to do with the placement, but by spreading the most used keys apart, it allows for faster typing on any keyboard because you can spread the work around more fingers. I can't speak for all of the motivations of the people who developed qwerty and dvorak, but I can speak for the end results.

Anyway, IMO, dvorak won't make a come back.

Windsor

I don't, either, but its not always the most common thats the best. It is SUPPOSED to be faster, and I want to see if i can at least try it without spending loads of money.

revil

pro's & cons
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/procon.html


http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/

in my personal experience, I switched to dvorak and regained my old speed within 2 weeks. by the 3rd week i was going faster.

qmanchu

I agree. I can understand Ladogaboy's point of view and for some people, the Dvorak keyboard layout just won't cut it. However, I won't go so far as to say that Dvorak will never become a standard. Obviously, the logistics of changing over would be monstrous compared to switching the US over to the metric system as a standard since, I assume, there are other countries that have adopted the QWERTY keyboard layout.

Anyway, back to the topic. Every Windows OS since, I believe, Windows 95 has been able to convert a standard keyboard into a QWERTY keyboard, more or less. If you open your Keyboard control panel and go to the "Input Locales" tab, you should be able to add the "English (United States)" locale and then specify the "US-Dvorak" layout. From there, it's just a matter of practicing and maybe finding some tests online to check your speed. When you go to add the "US-Dvorak" keyboard layout, you'll notice a couple of other Dvorak keyboard layouts -- one for the right hand and another for the left hand. These layouts are supposed to let you type entirely with one hand. So far example, if you're right-handed, you would be able to select the "US-Dvorak for left hand" and type using your left hand while navigating through windows using your right hand and the mouse. Pretty nifty but I've never tried it myself.

Jeffbx

I WOULD say it'll never become a standard. Why? It's like telling everyone to swap their mouse to the other side of the keyboard. If you've never used a mouse before, it should be no problem. If you've already done it one way for years, it would be pretty tough to switch.

There are already millions of people who are used to the QWERTY layout who would never switch to any other layout, no matter how efficient it's supposed to be. Not to mention the hardware manufacturers - what's in it for them to make a switch? Unless there is a huge demand for alternate layouts, I don't see any mfrs switching layouts.

revil

It took me less than a week to switch formats and still type effieciently. The learning curve is rather low on Dvorak. So i think that may help.

Jeffbx

Of couse, being the big authority that I am on this topic, I've never even tried any other layout besides QWERTY

GiVEN

First of all, this is really odd, I was going to post a message earlier about dvorak kbds and there it was, the very first topic on the board. On with it.

I used some typing software to teach me dvorak. It taught me about 11 keys before stopping and asking me to register. I changed the keyboard map in windows and learned all the keys on my own in about 2 weeks. By about 3-4 weeks i was typing about 40wpm but i never gave up qwerty. Before dvorak i could type qwerty at 60 wpm. After dvorak that dropped to about 45 and accuracy dropped too. My biggest problem is that i dont know where the special characters are. characters like {+,| are moved around and since i rarely use them, i couldnt remember them. It also kept other people from using my computer.

Windsor

That isn't necessarily a bad thing

Yeah, I've thought about that issue, and the easiest thing that i could think of is to have the dvorak layout printed on a plastic cover for the keyboard and then just switch the layouts from the Ctl Panel.