2 types of P4's ???

DaFunkyUnit · 08-11-2002, 05:01 PM

Uh... yea so, as i was browsing thru pricewatch, i notice theres a P4 and a P4 socket 478, which is considerably cheaper. I guess i'm totally ignorant of whats going on in the hardware world, but can someone care to enlighten me on whats the difference between the two, why is socket 478 cheaper, etc? My guess is that the normal P4 is a slot type CPU, with the cache attached to it, where as the socket is just your normal socket/lever interface. i'm still debating whether to go P4 or AMD Athlon XP for my new system
http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showth...threadid=48327 (its new system time)

thanks,
-daUnit

sbp · 08-11-2002, 06:31 PM

In general the AthlonXP are a better bang for the buck.

Price cuts on 2.4 Ghz and below Pentium 4's are scheduled for September 1st.

It could be some of the cheap Pentium 4's being talked about are Pentium 4 celerons.

The Pentium 4 never came in the slot form.

socket change-->core change-->FSB change

socket change: When Pentium 4's first came out they were in the socket 423 form. Then Intel came out with the socket 478 for Pentium 4's.

core change: Intel then decided to upgrade the Pentium 4. There are Pentium 4's that use the older Williamette .18 core as compared to the newer .13 micron Northwood core. Using the smaller core size has enabled Intel to crank up P4 speeds. In addition, the Northwood core has more 512KB L2 cache [from Williamette's 256KB] and has the default voltage lowered to 1.5v [from Williamette's 1.75v] which means it runs cooler. http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1...p42200-03.html

The last Williamette Pentium 4 was the Pentium 4 2.0. Pentium 4 2.2 Ghz and above are all Northwoods P4's. The Northwood Pentium 4's 2.0 Ghz and below are distinguished from the Williamette Pentium 4's by the use of an A. example: Pentium 4 2.0A is a Northwood P4 while Pentium 4 2.0 is a Williamette P4. In short if you are going for a Pentium4, get a Northwood Pentium 4.

FSB change: Also know that Pentium 4's 2.2Ghz and above come in both 400MHz {100MHz quad-pumped FSB} and 533MHz {133MHz quad-pumped FSB}. The Pentium 4's 2.2 and 2.2GHz use 400MHz FSB. The Pentium 4's 2.26, 2.4B, and 2.53 GHz are 533MHz FSB Pentium 4's. Obviously the B for the 533MHz FSB P4 2.4B distinguishes it from the 400Mhz FSB P4 2.4GHz

And finally lower speed 400Mhz FSB Northwood P4's like the P4 1.6A and 1.8A overclock quite readily to 533Mhz FSB.

Bires · 08-11-2002, 06:32 PM

early p4: Socket 423; about the same size as a socket 370
later p4: Socket 478;
current p4: socket 478 "Northwood" with 512k on-dye cache running at full cpu speed. the non-northwood's ran 256 cache running slower (1/2 speed I think)

Avoid the 423's and only buy a non-northwood cpu if you are really strapped for cash.

Bires · 08-11-2002, 06:33 PM

sbp: beat my post by a minute...

DaFunkyUnit · 08-13-2002, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sbp
In general the AthlonXP are a better bang for the buck.

oh really? for the XP2200, if you chuck in $30 more, you can get the P4 2.2GHZ.

if they're gonna slash prices on sept 1, is AMD gonna retaliate with price cuts too?

Apex · 08-13-2002, 12:26 AM

Most 2.2Ghz P4's reach a comfortable 2.7Ghz with retail cooling. Above that, it's more of a matter of luck.

sbp · 08-13-2002, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaFunkyUnit
oh really? for the XP2200, if you chuck in $30 more, you can get the P4 2.2GHZ.

if they're gonna slash prices on sept 1, is AMD gonna retaliate with price cuts too?

Thats why the word general was there.

Oh dear it appears AMD cut AthlonXP prices.

http://www.tech-report.com/onearticle.x/3945
Keen-eyed TR reader Mark Schrader pointed out that prices on Athlon XP 2200+ processors have dropped a bunch in the past 24 hours. Prices on the 2200+ are now as low as 150 bucks, with prices on the lower models appropriately lower, as well.

DaFunkyUnit · 08-14-2002, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sbp

Price cuts on 2.4 Ghz and below Pentium 4's are scheduled for September 1st.

Any link/verifcation?

If thats true, I'm gonna follow chosen's advice, and get me a p4 2.26, and maybe bump it up 2.3+. Hopefully by then, there will be plenty of the VIA P4x400 mobos out.

sbp · 08-15-2002, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaFunkyUnit

Any link/verifcation?

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-945684.html
http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20020813S0021

G_Sup · 08-16-2002, 10:27 AM

DaFunkyUnit, bump it up 2.3+? This chip will do close to 3ghz with the right RAM. 2.3 wouldn't even phase this chip...if you're going to get it go at least 2.6! I have mine running at 2.8 but I have reached 3ghz, the only problem is that when you go for the full 3ghz you have to relax you're RAM timing a little too much for my taste. My only advice is if you plan on getting the full value of this chip, then do a little research on the right mobo and RAM to accompany it. BTW, I have it running with an ABIT IT7 Max and Corsair XMS 3200 DDR Ram.

~~Cantacuzene~~ · 08-16-2002, 11:29 AM

3ghz, mmmmmm

DaFunkyUnit · 08-16-2002, 02:29 PM

the Soyo Dragon with VIA P4X400 chipset looks promising... when its availabe. Are you running FSB @ 533? or did you set it higher? How far up can it go before being unstable?

DaFunkyUnit · 08-23-2002, 10:20 AM

also, i forgot to ask, what heatsink and/or fan are you using on the cpu?

G_Sup · 08-23-2002, 06:40 PM

As for the heatsink it's an Alpha 8942 with an 80mm Panflo 47cfm fan. As for o/cing you start at the 133mhz default and work your way up, just like with the AMD XP and T-Bird chips. So, take for example: My current FSB speed is at 166mhz at a 3:4 dram timing. To calculate you would divide 3 into 166= 55.33. Then multiply 55.33 x 4 = 221.3. Now multiply that figure by 2 since it's Double Data Rate (DDR) which gives you a total of 442 mhz FSB!!! Now for the System bus which you eluded to being 533mhz since that is what the chip boasts, which are 2 totally different things. The P4 Northwood has 4 pipelines each at 133 mhz, so simply multiply your FSB x 133 and that gives you your system bus. So for me it's 166 x 4 = 664 MHZ of Quad Data Rate.

IMO I would see just how far you can get using the 3:4 Dram timings and find a sweet spot where both your RAM and chip are happy. If you were to go for 3ghz you would have to set your timings to a 1:1 ratio therefore having a FSB of 177 which means that your RAM is only running at 177x2 or 354mhz which is a huge difference of 440! Anyway, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask...otherwise, GOOD LUCK, you'll have a blast!

08-11-2002, 05:01 PM	#1
DaFunkyUnit Rear Admiral Upper Half Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: the peanut gallery Posts: 3,909	2 types of P4's ??? Uh... yea so, as i was browsing thru pricewatch, i notice theres a P4 and a P4 socket 478, which is considerably cheaper. I guess i'm totally ignorant of whats going on in the hardware world, but can someone care to enlighten me on whats the difference between the two, why is socket 478 cheaper, etc? My guess is that the normal P4 is a slot type CPU, with the cache attached to it, where as the socket is just your normal socket/lever interface. i'm still debating whether to go P4 or AMD Athlon XP for my new system http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showth...threadid=48327 (its new system time) thanks, -daUnit

08-11-2002, 06:32 PM	#3
Bires Admiral Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 5,064	three type of P4s early p4: Socket 423; about the same size as a socket 370 later p4: Socket 478; current p4: socket 478 "Northwood" with 512k on-dye cache running at full cpu speed. the non-northwood's ran 256 cache running slower (1/2 speed I think) Avoid the 423's and only buy a non-northwood cpu if you are really strapped for cash. __________________ Five years...

08-16-2002, 02:29 PM	#12
DaFunkyUnit Rear Admiral Upper Half Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: the peanut gallery Posts: 3,909	hey G Sup the Soyo Dragon with VIA P4X400 chipset looks promising... when its availabe. Are you running FSB @ 533? or did you set it higher? How far up can it go before being unstable?

08-23-2002, 06:40 PM	#14
G_Sup Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: CA Posts: 262	As for the heatsink it's an Alpha 8942 with an 80mm Panflo 47cfm fan. As for o/cing you start at the 133mhz default and work your way up, just like with the AMD XP and T-Bird chips. So, take for example: My current FSB speed is at 166mhz at a 3:4 dram timing. To calculate you would divide 3 into 166= 55.33. Then multiply 55.33 x 4 = 221.3. Now multiply that figure by 2 since it's Double Data Rate (DDR) which gives you a total of 442 mhz FSB!!! Now for the System bus which you eluded to being 533mhz since that is what the chip boasts, which are 2 totally different things. The P4 Northwood has 4 pipelines each at 133 mhz, so simply multiply your FSB x 133 and that gives you your system bus. So for me it's 166 x 4 = 664 MHZ of Quad Data Rate. IMO I would see just how far you can get using the 3:4 Dram timings and find a sweet spot where both your RAM and chip are happy. If you were to go for 3ghz you would have to set your timings to a 1:1 ratio therefore having a FSB of 177 which means that your RAM is only running at 177x2 or 354mhz which is a huge difference of 440! Anyway, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask...otherwise, GOOD LUCK, you'll have a blast! Last edited by G_Sup : 08-25-2002 at 03:12 PM.

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08-11-2002, 06:31 PM	#2
sbp Chief of Naval Operations Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 11,037	In general the AthlonXP are a better bang for the buck. Price cuts on 2.4 Ghz and below Pentium 4's are scheduled for September 1st. It could be some of the cheap Pentium 4's being talked about are Pentium 4 celerons. The Pentium 4 never came in the slot form. socket change-->core change-->FSB change socket change: When Pentium 4's first came out they were in the socket 423 form. Then Intel came out with the socket 478 for Pentium 4's. core change: Intel then decided to upgrade the Pentium 4. There are Pentium 4's that use the older Williamette .18 core as compared to the newer .13 micron Northwood core. Using the smaller core size has enabled Intel to crank up P4 speeds. In addition, the Northwood core has more 512KB L2 cache [from Williamette's 256KB] and has the default voltage lowered to 1.5v [from Williamette's 1.75v] which means it runs cooler. http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1...p42200-03.html The last Williamette Pentium 4 was the Pentium 4 2.0. Pentium 4 2.2 Ghz and above are all Northwoods P4's. The Northwood Pentium 4's 2.0 Ghz and below are distinguished from the Williamette Pentium 4's by the use of an A. example: Pentium 4 2.0A is a Northwood P4 while Pentium 4 2.0 is a Williamette P4. In short if you are going for a Pentium4, get a Northwood Pentium 4. FSB change: Also know that Pentium 4's 2.2Ghz and above come in both 400MHz {100MHz quad-pumped FSB} and 533MHz {133MHz quad-pumped FSB}. The Pentium 4's 2.2 and 2.2GHz use 400MHz FSB. The Pentium 4's 2.26, 2.4B, and 2.53 GHz are 533MHz FSB Pentium 4's. Obviously the B for the 533MHz FSB P4 2.4B distinguishes it from the 400Mhz FSB P4 2.4GHz And finally lower speed 400Mhz FSB Northwood P4's like the P4 1.6A and 1.8A overclock quite readily to 533Mhz FSB.

08-11-2002, 06:33 PM	#4
Bires Admiral Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 5,064	sbp: beat my post by a minute...

08-13-2002, 12:26 AM	#6
Apex Can you hear me now? Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Here Posts: 5,506	Most 2.2Ghz P4's reach a comfortable 2.7Ghz with retail cooling. Above that, it's more of a matter of luck.

08-16-2002, 10:27 AM	#10
G_Sup Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: CA Posts: 262	DaFunkyUnit, bump it up 2.3+? This chip will do close to 3ghz with the right RAM. 2.3 wouldn't even phase this chip...if you're going to get it go at least 2.6! I have mine running at 2.8 but I have reached 3ghz, the only problem is that when you go for the full 3ghz you have to relax you're RAM timing a little too much for my taste. My only advice is if you plan on getting the full value of this chip, then do a little research on the right mobo and RAM to accompany it. BTW, I have it running with an ABIT IT7 Max and Corsair XMS 3200 DDR Ram.

08-16-2002, 11:29 AM	#11
~~Cantacuzene~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA Posts: 8,700	3ghz, mmmmmm

08-23-2002, 10:20 AM	#13
DaFunkyUnit Rear Admiral Upper Half Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: the peanut gallery Posts: 3,909	also, i forgot to ask, what heatsink and/or fan are you using on the cpu?

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