JFP

Crap, just typed this who thing and went to preview and it got wiped out. I will try again.
Haven't written anything in a long time, to busy working and fighting it out in Battlefield 1942.
Considering upgrading, again, and have spent several hours researching web sites, reviews, and in particularly this forum; haven't quite found an answer to my questions, so here goes.
First, the current specs. This started as a simple upgrade of vid card and processor and ended with a whole new box about 8 months ago:
ASUS A7N8x deluxe Rev.2.0,Bios1005 (10/22/3)
AMD XP2500+ @ 1.83GHZ (10/22/3)
1Gb Crucial 2700DDR Ram
80Gb Maxtor w/8mb cache
GeForce4 Ti 4600
Plextor 24/10/40 CDRW
Antec case w/430Watt True power
Second, the questions re.current upgrades.
A) Is this CPU/Mobo fast enough to run a new 9800 or 5900 vid card?
B) Considered change is: P4C 2.4 or 2.8 and Asus P4C800-E board or AMD 2800 "Barton" and Video card. Either is about the same Chunk-of-change.
C) Am considering the 256Mb version of both cards; Is the extra 128Mb worth the extra$$$$?

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JFP

GraingerGuy

A) It'll do fine...but that high-end card will like a fast CPU.

B) I would consider getting a 2500+ w/ Barton core...over at newegg it's 90 bucks compared to the 2800+ being 173. From what I hear, the 2500+ overclocks really easily.

C) Right now...no. The extra 128MB don't really do anything except give you bragging rights....which is good also... For a few games down the road just a bit (Doom 3, HL2, etc) the extra 128 will probably do good stuff for you. Now...most likely not.

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sbp

A) Yes it is but you'll see more performance gain with a new cpu.
B) Interesting choice. I'd go with the Barton and new videocard.
C) An addition 128 MB of ram is not worth it at the current time.

ceeka

Are you having problems with any game that you are playing? Your current system looks like it should run anything very nicely at 1024x768 with AA turned on. If you have the cash burning a hole in your pocket than go ahead and upgrade, but personally I think if you wait until the end of the year there will be another generation of video cards and 64bit processors hitting the market.

JFP

Thanks all for your replies. CEEKA, everthing I play currently runs well WITHOUT AA or AF. If that is turned on the FPS fall off dramatically, regardless of resolution settings(currently playing at 12X10 but have tried everything from 800x600 up, same results). One of the big selling points of the Gf3 and 4 et al was that AA worked and didn't kill the game playing, but I have not seen it do so. But your point is well taken regarding waiting: If I can muster up the patience, year-end should see some fabulous new stuff, and the prices of todays hot equipment will fall.
However, I am not as patient as I used to be-to old,to little time, to many available toys and games to play!! We'll see.
Thanks again SBP and Grainger-I'll post decisions and results here.

LPMiller

with your set up, a simple upgrade to a 2500 and a radeon would be perfect. If you do not want to go with the barton core, the 2600 is also very cheap.

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JFP

O.K., again thanks. So the upgrade will start with the CPU-makes sense to me.
I realize there is extra cache on the barton, but the 2500 is only about .1ghz faster than my current 2100 Palomino chip. Is it easier to oc. the 2500 then the 2100? OR will I be better off with the 2800Barton and leave the OCing alone?
My thinking, please correct me if I am mistaken, is the Barton and Thoroughbred cores CAN be easily oc'd through the BIOS?
NO,I am not normally into overclocking, but if the 2500 does so easily, then Yahoo! I might give it a try--it's 90$$$ cheaper then the 2800.
I have been to Tom's hardware and S---!! they talk about tieing wires around things and soldering parts to the CPU etc. and there is no way I am THAT mechanically inclined!! (electricity, shorts, etc. an I do NOT get along together!)

ski

I have the 2500+ Barton and I <3 it with all my heart. I effortlessly got it to read as 2800+, and with some extra cooling, 3000+ is in reach as well. It's definitely a steal for being so new!

GraingerGuy

It overclocks MUCH easier than the 2100+ And from what I have heard, the 2500+ came unlocked before...don't know if that's true still.

bachviet

You can't compare CPU by just the speed (Ghz). You have to look for different design, CORE, cache, and ect. I would go with the 2500+ Barton also.

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Intel P4-C 3.0GHz | ECS 865PE-A | 3x512MB PC3200 | 128MB PNY GeForce 6600GT

JFP

O.K., now into serious shopping. Plan on the 2500, card now has to come later as we have embarked upon a small interior painting project (!not my idea, know what I mean?!). Plan is to get retail CPU, but need another cooler for other box; looking at Thermaltake Vocano 10:Big price differences for this part with the different etailers.
will let you know how it goes.
Thanks.

ceeka

If you're looking for a good low/mid priced cpu cooler check out the Cooler Master Aero 7+. I've seen the price run $25-35 and it has got lots of good reviews.

JFP

All Right! The 2500 is in and running and XP says it is a 2700 right now. I OCd it easily to 2800 and that big Thermaltake kept it oh so CCOOOOLLLL!(Decided not to use the hsf on the old box). Just a matter of which card to get.
Looking at the Gainward or Leadtek 5900(non-ultra--256mb doesn't help enough for the xtra $100) Have now spent another 4-5 hours reading as much as I can tolerate re. 9800 & 5900 and truly will puke if I read another review. I am playing my game(s) on a 21" CRT, normally at 1200x1024. A couple older sims/games won't let me do the 12x10 so are played at 1024x768. On the ole Ti4600(old!?Hell it's less then a year old!!) I can NOT run FSAA or Aniso. as it slows things down way to much.So here are my questions: At the resolutions I am playing, will the filtering make that big a difference in my "picture"? If so am I going to see a big difference between the 9800Pro vs.5900? this is important to me because a couple of reviews/tests show that the 9800 is slower then the 5900 POSSIBLY due to the Radeons filtering capabilities/characteristics. Price differences for the two are nearly non-existant so are not a consideration--other then explaining to my better-half where and why almost 1/2 of a C-Note went!
LP-I did see you note about the Radeon. Some more of your input would be appreciated.
Thanks.

LPMiller

Frankly, I'd just wait on the video card till the next round comes out. The 4600 isn't exactly a dog, and AA and AF only add something if your eyes are good enough to see it.

Either 5900 or 9800 would be a good choice. While the 5900 can be faster in some things, its not in my mind a large enough of a difference to fret over, and I think, if you shop around, you can get a pretty decent deal on the 9800 now. Both cards hold their smoke very well, do decent AA and AF, and pump the Frames out, so I just can't say that either is a bad card, or that one is truly better than the other.

ceeka

From past exp the Nviida cards are a little faster in games, but the ATi cards have better 2d quality and tv output. As far as I know this is still true. And if you watch divx stuff the divx player takes advantage of the ati 97 and 9800 cards. As far as FAA and ansio I think they make a big diff in the visual quality of the game.
If you're intrested in a 9800 non pro let me know, I have an extra one right now.

JFP

Ceeka, how much for the 9800? If you don't want to post here, tell me how to get in touch with you.
LP-I'm trying to be patient and wait for the next intros. of new video cards and chips. Trying, trying, trying. Don't know if I will make it even though it will be to my advantage. THANKS for the additional input.

ceeka

I'm looking to get $250 shipped. This is a non pro card with 8 pipe renderers not like the 9800se that has shown up and only has 4 pipe renderers.

JFP

Thanks Ceeka, but I think I will hold out for the Pro or 5900. Appreciate the offer though.

JFP

UPDATE TIME
Waiting for new cards to hit market/reviews: Watching prices drop on 5900's, probably in anticipation of new stuff. This is good, as money ran out.
Computers: Ah those S>O>B>s!!! You all will get a kick out of this.
Decided to upgrade both computers I own (as I mentioned earlier)and let the extra parts trickle down into a computer to be built for my son; he had a--don't choke--compaq and it died a year ago during the brownouts.
Found out that upgrading from A7N8X rev.1.04 to an A7N8Xrev.2.0 requires a reinstall of Windows. Only found out after many hours of trying to load drivers etc. and even sending back one board to Newegg (Their customer service was exceptional). With the second board, same problem, only spent 2 hours F@#$$%#@#$ with it, then call ASUS and a supervisor there filled me in.
Ahh, running at last.
Went over to computer #2, running an old A7M266 with a brand new Antec P/S. shut it down, plugged in the P/S fan monitor wire (yes, to the right connection the right way), turned on the computer, FRYED THE BOARD
To shorten this, ASUS replaced the board, it will go into my son's comp, all the memory etc. checks out o.k., and the first A7N8X went into number 2 and is running very well.
Don't have tobe crazy to work with these things, but it helps.
I will update when I get the new card.

sbp

Just a few weeks ago it may have been a toss up for people when choosing a high end videocard. Not anymore.

There is a good reason why 5900's prices are dropping-people are trying to unload 5900's. Thats cause the GeForceFX line has a lackluster DirectX 9 implementation.

ATI is announcing the R360 aka Radeon 9800XT in less than a week.

Nvidias answer to the R360, the NV38 aka GeForce FX 5950 Ultra, has been shown at Computex. This is a respin of the NV35 with higher clocks and no new features. In short-an overclocked NV35 with big cooler. Yes, the DirectX 9 implementation will still blow. NV38 likely will hit shelves in late October/November which after the Radeon9800XT comes out.

Yes, FSAA and ani can make a big difference depending on the type of game played. e.g. For Flight sims it'll be more useful than 3d shooters.

ATI has better FSAA than Nvidia. ATI has better modes and gamma correction. Some of the modes Nvidia has been using date from GeForce 3 days.

Ani is about equal with a slight edge to Nvidia.

Another thing to be taken into consideration...Radeon 9800's are smaller and cooler running than 5900's.

JFP

Thanks sbp, or would you prefer admiral? Can't do much of anything re. card right now, but your link has helped. Much more information out there then I had found prior.
I have always had NV cards, with one exeception, and been relatively happy with them, other then previously mentioned FSAA and Ansio. issue. But I may switch over yet.
I had a Radeon 64 for a short time and it did have exceptionally good 2D graphics.
It was interesting to find that ATI has some problems similar to NV35 with "flickering". That suggests, as mentioned on the forums, that individual equipment and/or equipment location is the problem, not the card.
JUst for the record, I was just in BF1942 and with no FSAA or Ansio my average fps was 99, and with 2X or Quicanex FSAA and 4X Ansio it dropped to 15-30 and the text became unreadable (names etc). I could not see a big diff. in textures or shapes with the FSAA/Ansio ON-though they did seem slightly smoother. NOT worth the 69 fps drop! This is another small reason why I am waiting and not just pulling out my ti4600:99fps is NOT slow by any means!
Thanks again, and please share anymore thoughts on this upgrade and the cards.

JFP

Update time, again. Been busier then a onelegged sailor in a threelegged race. Finally found time to do more "research." Went to friend's house and played with his HP XPS with a 9800 non-pro. Frame rates w/o all the eyecandy were about what my puter runs. FPS with everything turned on were really impressive!!! And the actual picture on the screen: WOW:
Found 9800 pro in local store, on sale, with great return policy. Bought it, took it home, installed it. Time: 8:10p.m. Loaded drivers from ATI-Cat3.8- now 8:13pm.
8:13:20-black screen.
On phone for 1.5 hours with computer service tech, finally got everything loaded and running-so we thought. Fired off BF42 and entered a game (singlePlayer) and the 3D was BAAAADDDDD!! Triangles missing, artifacts here and there, unplayable. Tried several things including reloading and reinstalling everything. Same deal with 3D.
Reinstalled old 4600 and drivers-everything ok.
This was the night of 10/20, Monday.
Tuesday-Couldn't believe that I/we couldn't get the card working. Came home on short work break, downloaded new GART drivers, installed card by-the-book (again)(and this time used the 3.1 drivers etc. from the disc)--so far so good--into bf42, open game, CRAP!! Same problem.
Took the card back.
Sorry for the long story, but I really was looking forward the this card, after my long decision process. ANY ideas about the card? Drivers? Or was it just my luck that it was a bad ATI card?
Needless to say, really hesitant to try this again. Not had anything like this happen with nVidia cards. Took about an hour this last time to get the box back up and running 'cause even restore point wouldn't work/restore. On line stores DO have better prices, but those become offset by lengthy RMA times and shipping costs.
Thanks in advance.
P.S. Please see current config in my original post.

sbp

Could be remnants of old Nvidia driver was screwing things up.

How did other games run?

It may have been a bad card.

JFP

sbp and others, stay tuned. Not enough time to type up the story now, but will do so in the next 36 hours.
I have up-graded, it is wonderful.
Please bear with me. As they might say on t.v. (which I hate), film/news at 11.

Realrammstein

Been a long time supporter of Nvidia cards (have bought 3 of them so far). However, a friend upgraded to a new FX 5800 card and it refused to run. He tried 2 AGP cards and it didn't play (all tests just trying GTA3 Vice City). He even dropped down to a PCI FX 5200 to see if it was an AGP issue. still no dice. In the end, he just went pack to his Geforce 3 and will just buy a new motherboard,

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