PC World: Apple G5 Gets Trounced By Athlon 64

ski · 10-15-2003, 12:01 PM

From /.

Benchmarks

Full Article

Looks like the G5 only beat the Athlon 64 significantly in the Photoshop test (as Apple focuses more on multimedia).

They claimed a single Athlon 64 FX chip beat a dual cpu G5 in many cases of their initial tests (unexhaustive), and cheaper. All depends on what you use your computer for, though!

Airencracken · 10-15-2003, 12:06 PM

I wonder how Intel is going to respond to this...

sbp · 10-15-2003, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Airencracken
I wonder how Mac fanatics are going to respond to this...

Not well, same as usual.

seqiro · 10-15-2003, 01:04 PM

No bias in that article at all. They used a classic application no longer made for Mac (Premiere), a Microsoft application (Word), and a game that on the Mac is merely a port.

And they didn't use any 64-bit applications on either platform, essentially only proving how well each platform runs software not tuned for the new processor.

Oh and some of the Athlon 64s are using faster video cards and a RAID setup.

This part of the article I also found interesting:

Quote:

But upgrading to XP 64 could mean giving up functionality without getting much in return. In fact, XP 64 looks like a throwback to Windows past: Its interface mirrors that of Windows 2000 or even Win 98. Microsoft has not disclosed what else will be in the OS, so it is possible that you'll still get most of XP's other features.

XP 64 won't have the 32-bit XP's support for DOS apps at all, nor will it run 16-bit apps (but it should have no trouble with 32-bit software). More important, 64-bit drivers for common hardware, such as printers, will be scarce when the OS debuts.

"People should not expect to take all of their existing hardware, get one of these 64-bit systems [both OS and PC], and get everything to run," says Greg Sullivan, Windows XP lead product manager. However, as with previous Windows releases, there will be some drivers bundled with the OS.

Expect no big marketing displays at your local CompUSA for this Windows' debut: It will be an option for new PCs once it ships, but it won't be offered at retail. Sullivan says Microsoft is working on ways to distribute it to users who buy early 64-bit PCs (most likely via a CD, and not free).

No one I know with G5 is having compatibility problems that they didn't have before.

I'm a (99% Windows) PC Technician by day and I use PCs and Macs at home. I don't understand why fans of either platform always feels they need to prove anything to anyone. If it works for you and you like it, use it. You don't need benchmarks to prove anything.

eSDee · 10-15-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seqiro
I'm a (99% Windows) PC Technician by day and I use PCs and Macs at home. I don't understand why fans of either platform always feels they need to prove anything to anyone. If it works for you and you like it, use it. You don't need benchmarks to prove anything.

Another thing about that benchmark is OS9 applications like Premiere don't utilize the dual- processor.

ribitch · 10-15-2003, 01:16 PM

my refutation:

premiere blows on a mac, final cut is far superior. This is why adobe has abandoned the product and is no longer developed. Premiere takes little if no advantage of the G4 let alone the G5.

photoshop tests are crap. They can be slewed to show either platform is superior. This is easily done by picking th efilters that run best on a platform. Unless you use these filters daily, basing a decision on these benchmarks is useless.

The word tests are also a joke. Word is slow on a mac. Mac users do complain about this.

gaming is also better on a pc. gaming benchmarks on a mac are pointless. There has been some headway made in this arena, but they still are not even close.

The pc users bitched about the apple vs dell comparisions that apple published using an outside company to do the testing. These tests were said to be inaccurate due to the compilers, the usage f hyperthreading, and many other "issues".

In the end, the trouncing wasnt a trouncing in my eyes. The tests were poorly picked, and in no way show how well the system will perform in a general day to day usage.

Panther will also change the results of these tests, and all G5 systems are entittled to a free uprade to panther.

I agree that the AMD CPU's are great CPU's, but the fact that they cannot run OS X makes them worthless to me. OS X is in my opinion the best OS out at this moment in time.

spigidygak · 10-15-2003, 03:04 PM

meh. . . its about as fair as apple's test against the dell's and such so. . .

what does it matter, you get what you need, I use mac because fcp does not exist on the windows platform. I use a windows machine 'cause gaming on mac sucks since no one supports it as well. I would use a linux if I needed to do file servers and stuff. Bottom line, this is good for all of use because it shows all the cpu manufacturers are staying competitive with each other.

Bires · 10-15-2003, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spigidygak
meh.

Second.

...

Meh.

ski · 10-15-2003, 05:18 PM

How does Apple say the G5 is the world's fastest home computer? I'm really wondering that... all the justifications about this is better on a Mac, this is better on a PC, it seems like overall, if you really care (and trust me, some people do), that the Athlon 64 FX is faster in most applications with most configurations. Get Adobe to release a version of Premiere for Mac that enables dual processor (pointless with iMovie and FCP

) and there, they might win that one. But it seems that the G5 is only faster in multimedia applications (non inclusive of games)

I just found it interesting with the thought Apple left in my head of the world's fastest home computer being fastest at other things besides multimedia

ski · 10-15-2003, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ribitch

I agree that the AMD CPU's are great CPU's, but the fact that they cannot run OS X makes them worthless to me. OS X is in my opinion the best OS out at this moment in time.

I guess we can't really say anything until the 64-bit OS's come out. Who knows, the Windows one might be great, maybe not... same goes for Apple's offering, but that probably has more chance of working out for the better than not

ray · 10-15-2003, 05:42 PM

Everybody has a use for a computer. Each manufacturer and operating system has its own advantages and disadvantages. I have never used a computer that I was not satisfied with for the work and intent that I was using it for. I've used everything from an Apple IIe to my current AMD Athlon 1800XP. I have never needed anything more powerful and I typically only upgrade my RAM and hard drives.

Surely the tests aren't perfect, but it's a good gauge as far as possible performance. Basically, the two machines were pretty much the same, but in the end it's the consumer who will decide what they really need a computer for.

For a college student who only wants to do some word processing and surf the internet, there is no need for a 64-bit processor, a G5 or any dual processor setup for that matter. People typically buy computers for a specific purpose and those computers are built with those purposes in mind.

The argument over which computer is better has been going on for years and will be going on for decades to come. Why? I don't know, I don't care. I have a computer that works for me so that's all that matters

ski · 10-15-2003, 05:48 PM

Who are we trying to prove wrong! Here's a glimpse of what everyone has said, including myself:

"All depends on what you use your computer for, though"

"If it works for you and you like it, use it. "

Ribitch's whole post

"what does it matter, you get what you need"

"Meh."

"Everybody has a use for a computer. "

I think we're all in agreement about that, regardless what you think the article was pointing out

bachviet · 10-15-2003, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seqiro
No bias in that article at all. They used a classic application no longer made for Mac (Premiere), a Microsoft application (Word), and a game that on the Mac is merely a port. And they didn't use any 64-bit applications on either platform, essentially only proving how well each platform runs software not tuned for the new processor.
...

What AMD really needs is a good and staple 64 bit OS along with software to test against the G5 with its 64 bit counterparts. You can't really take advantage of the AMD 64 without 64 bit software.

ribitch · 10-15-2003, 07:02 PM

my new toy. check out the thickness of the aluminum casing. i have never seen a pc case that had a case comprable to this.

Apex · 10-15-2003, 07:06 PM

Man, that's some thick casing.

Bires · 10-15-2003, 08:28 PM

Ribitch's new toy sure is...ummm...thick.

xsiled2 · 10-15-2003, 10:27 PM

hrmm that case reminds me of the tanks gateway used to make...

i wonder how much the case actually tacks on to the final price...

ribitch · 10-16-2003, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xsiled2
hrmm that case reminds me of the tanks gateway used to make...

i wonder how much the case actually tacks on to the final price...

i am guessing the case cost apple a nice chunk of change. The all aluminum cases that run around 250 seem flimsy and cheap compared to this. There was allot of engineering involved in the design of this sucker, so it has to be a decent chunk of change.

One of the best features of this design is the silnece of the machine. I never hear fans unless I wake it up from sleep, power it on, or remove the air shield from the inside. When you remove the airshield, it powers the fans on to full speed, otherwise the fans power up fully then after 1-2 seconds the power down to normal operating speeds.

Silence is golden! now i just need to quiet down my firewire enclosures.

Jeffbx · 10-16-2003, 06:13 AM

I tell ya, Apple has always had every other mfr beat hands down when it comes to case design. I've never seen a PC case that comes close.

Look at how clean that is - where are all of the wires?? I know everyone here has opened up PC cases where you can't even see the motherboard because of all of wires & crap on top of it.

Almost makes me want to buy a Mac just so I can install & remove components without tearing up the back of my hand.

topane · 10-16-2003, 06:43 AM

Lies, damned lies, statistics, and benchmarks?

InfiniteNothing · 10-18-2003, 01:31 AM

What the hell is a Word test? Apparently we are waisting precious seconds searching for words in text documents all day. I think a computer should be fast where it's the most frustrating to wait. For me that's opening programs, rasterizing or filtering in adobe, and 3D rendering. I think other important places to be fast are making movies, compiling (have you seen X code? fricken awsome), importing MP3s, and other number crunching and such.

So, I used a 2.0Ghz G5 at school with the school internet connection and that thing was so fast it was unbelievable. Safari opened as if it was only minimized (maybe faster) and it opened web pages faster than I could click the links. I was opening things in new tabs and such and the thing didn't fatigue. I opened a few other progams and they loaded soooo fast.

10-15-2003, 12:01 PM	#1
ski Admiral Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 5,420	PC World: Apple G5 Gets Trounced By Athlon 64 From /. Benchmarks Full Article Looks like the G5 only beat the Athlon 64 significantly in the Photoshop test (as Apple focuses more on multimedia). They claimed a single Athlon 64 FX chip beat a dual cpu G5 in many cases of their initial tests (unexhaustive), and cheaper. All depends on what you use your computer for, though! __________________ And closer...

10-15-2003, 12:06 PM	#2
Airencracken Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: California Posts: 6,681	I wonder how Intel is going to respond to this... __________________ "I remember my first orgasm, I just wish someone was there to share it with me..."11-05-2003 05:33 AM - Topane They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, & the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opiate of the masses. - Karl Marx Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre

10-15-2003, 01:16 PM	#6
ribitch Rear Admiral Upper Half Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,672	my refutation: premiere blows on a mac, final cut is far superior. This is why adobe has abandoned the product and is no longer developed. Premiere takes little if no advantage of the G4 let alone the G5. photoshop tests are crap. They can be slewed to show either platform is superior. This is easily done by picking th efilters that run best on a platform. Unless you use these filters daily, basing a decision on these benchmarks is useless. The word tests are also a joke. Word is slow on a mac. Mac users do complain about this. gaming is also better on a pc. gaming benchmarks on a mac are pointless. There has been some headway made in this arena, but they still are not even close. The pc users bitched about the apple vs dell comparisions that apple published using an outside company to do the testing. These tests were said to be inaccurate due to the compilers, the usage f hyperthreading, and many other "issues". In the end, the trouncing wasnt a trouncing in my eyes. The tests were poorly picked, and in no way show how well the system will perform in a general day to day usage. Panther will also change the results of these tests, and all G5 systems are entittled to a free uprade to panther. I agree that the AMD CPU's are great CPU's, but the fact that they cannot run OS X makes them worthless to me. OS X is in my opinion the best OS out at this moment in time. __________________ http://ribitch.com/ipod.html

10-15-2003, 03:04 PM	#7
spigidygak Admiral Join Date: May 2000 Location: Redlands & San Diego, CA. Posts: 5,882	meh. . . its about as fair as apple's test against the dell's and such so. . . what does it matter, you get what you need, I use mac because fcp does not exist on the windows platform. I use a windows machine 'cause gaming on mac sucks since no one supports it as well. I would use a linux if I needed to do file servers and stuff. Bottom line, this is good for all of use because it shows all the cpu manufacturers are staying competitive with each other. __________________

10-15-2003, 05:48 PM	#12
ski Admiral Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 5,420	Who are we trying to prove wrong! Here's a glimpse of what everyone has said, including myself: "All depends on what you use your computer for, though" "If it works for you and you like it, use it. " Ribitch's whole post "what does it matter, you get what you need" "Meh." "Everybody has a use for a computer. " I think we're all in agreement about that, regardless what you think the article was pointing out Last edited by skiAtomic : 10-15-2003 at 05:55 PM.

10-15-2003, 05:18 PM	#9
ski Admiral Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 5,420	How does Apple say the G5 is the world's fastest home computer? I'm really wondering that... all the justifications about this is better on a Mac, this is better on a PC, it seems like overall, if you really care (and trust me, some people do), that the Athlon 64 FX is faster in most applications with most configurations. Get Adobe to release a version of Premiere for Mac that enables dual processor (pointless with iMovie and FCP ) and there, they might win that one. But it seems that the G5 is only faster in multimedia applications (non inclusive of games) I just found it interesting with the thought Apple left in my head of the world's fastest home computer being fastest at other things besides multimedia

10-15-2003, 05:42 PM	#11
ray captain awesome Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,054	Everybody has a use for a computer. Each manufacturer and operating system has its own advantages and disadvantages. I have never used a computer that I was not satisfied with for the work and intent that I was using it for. I've used everything from an Apple IIe to my current AMD Athlon 1800XP. I have never needed anything more powerful and I typically only upgrade my RAM and hard drives. Surely the tests aren't perfect, but it's a good gauge as far as possible performance. Basically, the two machines were pretty much the same, but in the end it's the consumer who will decide what they really need a computer for. For a college student who only wants to do some word processing and surf the internet, there is no need for a 64-bit processor, a G5 or any dual processor setup for that matter. People typically buy computers for a specific purpose and those computers are built with those purposes in mind. The argument over which computer is better has been going on for years and will be going on for decades to come. Why? I don't know, I don't care. I have a computer that works for me so that's all that matters

10-15-2003, 07:02 PM	#14
ribitch Rear Admiral Upper Half Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,672	my new toy. check out the thickness of the aluminum casing. i have never seen a pc case that had a case comprable to this.

10-15-2003, 07:06 PM	#15
Apex Can you hear me now? Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Here Posts: 5,506	Man, that's some thick casing. __________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge. Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 - )

10-15-2003, 08:28 PM	#16
Bires Admiral Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 5,064	Ribitch's new toy sure is...ummm...thick.

10-15-2003, 10:27 PM	#17
xsiled2 Vice Admiral Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: bye Posts: 4,090	hrmm that case reminds me of the tanks gateway used to make... i wonder how much the case actually tacks on to the final price...

10-16-2003, 06:13 AM	#19
Jeffbx Fleet Admiral Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Michigan Posts: 9,390	I tell ya, Apple has always had every other mfr beat hands down when it comes to case design. I've never seen a PC case that comes close. Look at how clean that is - where are all of the wires?? I know everyone here has opened up PC cases where you can't even see the motherboard because of all of wires & crap on top of it. Almost makes me want to buy a Mac just so I can install & remove components without tearing up the back of my hand.

10-16-2003, 06:43 AM	#20
topane turducken all the time Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Between the wheels Posts: 5,055	Lies, damned lies, statistics, and benchmarks? __________________ Shall we buy a new guitar? Shall we drive a more powerful car?

10-18-2003, 01:31 AM	#21
InfiniteNothing Chief of Naval Operations Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 10,086	Yeah sometimes I drop in here occasionally What the hell is a Word test? Apparently we are waisting precious seconds searching for words in text documents all day. I think a computer should be fast where it's the most frustrating to wait. For me that's opening programs, rasterizing or filtering in adobe, and 3D rendering. I think other important places to be fast are making movies, compiling (have you seen X code? fricken awsome), importing MP3s, and other number crunching and such. So, I used a 2.0Ghz G5 at school with the school internet connection and that thing was so fast it was unbelievable. Safari opened as if it was only minimized (maybe faster) and it opened web pages faster than I could click the links. I was opening things in new tabs and such and the thing didn't fatigue. I opened a few other progams and they loaded soooo fast. __________________ As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals.

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